Other programs like Returnil?

[Scoobs]

I'm currently trialing Returnil and I like it a lot.

It seems to do its job well and unobtrusively.

One downside to the free version is the restricted capability to turn off session lock without a reboot.

For this reason I'm wondering about purchasing the full version.

Before I do (and this goes against my initial desire to maintain a zero-cost security solution) I was wondering if there were any other programs that do a similar job as well.

[twl845]

Originally Posted by Scoobs

I'm currently trialing Returnil and I like it a lot.

It seems to do its job well and unobtrusively.

One downside to the free version is the restricted capability to turn off session lock without a reboot.

For this reason I'm wondering about purchasing the full version.

Before I do (and this goes against my initial desire to maintain a zero-cost security solution) I was wondering if there were any other programs that do a similar job as well.

The paid version requires a re-boot as well. That's how it clears.

[Scoobs]

Originally Posted by twl845

The paid version requires a re-boot as well. That's how it clears.

Sorry - I wasn't clear. A reboot clears any changes to the virtual system partition, but, if you want to install something you need to turn off the session lock, and in the free version this requires a reboot, whereas in the premium it is switch on/off-able within the same windows session.

[wrongway67]

Originally Posted by Scoobs

A reboot clears any changes to the virtual system partition, but, if you want to install something you need to turn off the session lock, and in the free version this requires a reboot, whereas in the premium it is switch on/off-able within the same windows session.

I've the Premium version they gave for free with GAOTD, but if I enable the session-lock, I have to reboot if I want to exit from that status

from the manual:

Important Notes: Using Session Lock does not require a reboot of your computer! It does
however require a reboot to deactivate the System Protection feature.

Am I missing something?

[HURST]

Thats right paid version DOES require a reboot to come out of session lock. The difference is that you can commit changes or even save the entire session.

[Scoobs]

Originally Posted by HURST

Thats right paid version DOES require a reboot to come out of session lock. The difference is that you can commit changes or even save the entire session.

HURST, do you mean session lock, or system protection?

It's my understanding that System Protection is the virtualisation of the harddisk. This needs to happen at start up if it's to happen at all. That's why a reboot is needed to toggle it either on or off.

I'm not quite certain how Session Lock works (more reading required!) but I thought this could be toggled on and off without a reboot, but only in the paid version.

It was my understanding that this means you could allow some changes without having to toggle everything off, reboot, make changes, toggle on, reboot.

I think I need to be clearer about what Session Lock actually does before confusing anyone else!

[HURST]

System Protection is the total virtualization. It requires a reboot to be enabled. This way, virtualization will still be there after reboots, unless you turn off system protection.

Session Lock is "virtualization-on-the-fly"...you enter protection mode without reboot. You stay in protected mode until you reboot, and then you start with an unprotected system.

Hope this helps. Check the Returnil help file if you have doubts

Edit:

from the returnil help file:

Protection mode: Change of Mode requires a reboot of your computer before it will take effect regardless of whether turning protection ON or OFF which distinguishes it from Session Lock which is only valid for the current login session.

Session Lock: Using Session Lock does not require a reboot of your computer! It does however require a reboot to deactivate the System Protection feature. Additionally, Session Lock is available only if System Protection is currently OFF.

FWIW, I have returnil paid

[Dark Shadow]

To my understanding, I think its a more of a convience thing rather then always on at boot, It allows for protection on when needed or on the fly so to speak with out the need to reboot to activate.The next reboot its off again.

[Scoobs]

Thanks HURST and djohn - very helpful. I'm still not sure if Returnil is exactly what I'm after, but it comes very close. I think I'll probably stick with it since this thread's not throwing up many alternatives.

[HURST]

There are some alternatives, but as far as I know, none of them is free... and Returnil makes a great job. Too bad you missed GAOTD a few days ago

[Coldmoon]

Hi Scoobs,
Returnil and all ISR (Instant System Recovery) solutions require a reboot to exit protected mode and is due to the limitations of Windows. Most also require a reboot to enter as well.

We are still researching methods to allow exiting System Protection without a reboot but it will still be some time before we crack this particular nut as it were.

Conceptually, this limitation does have the benefit of ensuring that unwanted changes are lost as expected at reboot and minimizes the potential for accidental saving of the same content. This potential is also the design imperative behind the way the Premium Edition handles saving of files and folders to the Real System. By making the user either intentionally commit the content to disk manually or by automated command line, we reduce the chance that content will be saved unintentionally (Ex: file/folder exclusion techniques where the target file or folder is EXCLUDED from protection so that changes can be made).

By forcing an intentional save by the user, RVS again reduces the chance that this feature could be used to circumvent System Protection. It is a subtle difference but an important one IMHO.

Thank you for trying RVS and we look forward to your feedback.

Mike

[Dark Shadow]

Wow mike, thats great to hear.either way the programs works great as it is, worked perfect on my previous XP and remains to impress on my vista.Keep up the good work Regards Dave

[Scoobs]

Originally Posted by Coldmoon

Hi Scoobs,
Returnil and all ISR (Instant System Recovery) solutions require a reboot to exit protected mode and is due to the limitations of Windows. Most also require a reboot to enter as well.

We are still researching methods to allow exiting System Protection without a reboot but it will still be some time before we crack this particular nut as it were.

Conceptually, this limitation does have the benefit of ensuring that unwanted changes are lost as expected at reboot and minimizes the potential for accidental saving of the same content. This potential is also the design imperative behind the way the Premium Edition handles saving of files and folders to the Real System. By making the user either intentionally commit the content to disk manually or by automated command line, we reduce the chance that content will be saved unintentionally (Ex: file/folder exclusion techniques where the target file or folder is EXCLUDED from protection so that changes can be made).

By forcing an intentional save by the user, RVS again reduces the chance that this feature could be used to circumvent System Protection. It is a subtle difference but an important one IMHO.

Thank you for trying RVS and we look forward to your feedback.

Mike

Thanks Mike, the conceptual stuff makes a lot of sense to me. I like the comprehensiveness of the solution it appears to provide.

[Scoobs]

I've pretty much decided to stick with Returnil for various reasons (it's free, but also works quietly and seemingly very reliably and does what I want), but in case I can save anyone having to ask the same question again...

Having done a bit more reading this thread covers similar programs, and they seem to be:-

• FDISR
• RollbackRx
• Eaz-Fix
• AyRecovery
• Radix Reload
• Roxio BackOnTrack 3 Suite
• DeepFreeze
• Returnil
• ShadowDefender

(List taken shamelessly from post 2 by Erik Albert)

[ErikAlbert]

You can add "Baseline Shield" + "PowerShadow" + "ShadowUser" and replace FDISR with FDISR Rescue.
And remember : ShadowUserUser is a user of ShadowUser.

[Scoobs]

Thanks Erik. Also worth pointing out that none of these (I think I'm correct) are free like Returnil's personal version.

[ErikAlbert]

Originally Posted by Scoobs

Thanks Erik. Also worth pointing out that none of these (I think I'm correct) are free like Returnil's personal version.

Yes, Returnil Personal is the only freeware on this list.

[MrBrian]

Windows SteadyState from Microsoft is free. It can handle software that needs reboots. SteadyState needs a cache file on your hard disk though.

[MrBrian]

A hardware solution is CoreRestore.

[ErikAlbert]

Originally Posted by MrBrian

A hardware solution is CoreRestore.

You mean one of these system recovery cards. China is full of them.

[Teknokrat]

Originally Posted by ErikAlbert

You mean one of these system recovery cards. China is full of them.

Yes? And to you chinese=bad? (No, I'm not particularly fond of the chinese regime either, but that's even more OT.) You missed to make your point?

CoreRestore is a card based on patented technologies developed by CoreProtect based in Carlsbad, CA.

It'd be nice to hear from someone using a hardware based solution and hear of the pros and cons compared to a software solution like Returnil.

regards,
T

[ErikAlbert]

Originally Posted by Teknokrat

Yes? And to you chinese=bad? (No, I'm not particularly fond of the chinese regime either, but that's even more OT.) You missed to make your point?

CoreRestore is a card based on patented technologies developed by CoreProtect based in Carlsbad, CA.

It'd be nice to hear from someone using a hardware based solution and hear of the pros and cons compared to a software solution like Returnil.

regards,
T

There was an earlier thread about ISR cards at Wilders and it turned out that China was a big producer of ISR cards, plenty of choice. Most of them sell in large quantities and one card is hard to get.
Why do you think I consider chinese=bad, nothing in my post indicates that.

[Teknokrat]

Originally Posted by ErikAlbert

There was an earlier thread about ISR cards at Wilders and it turned out that China was a big producer of ISR cards, plenty of choice. Most of them sell in large quantities and one card is hard to get.
Why do you think I consider chinese=bad, nothing in my post indicates that.

No, like I said - I wondered if you thought chinese equalled bad. You didn't explicate that view. I (mis-)interpreted what seemed to me an implicit statement. Sorry.

I guess the main market for ISR cards are schools and businesses but surely there must be such products that are sold by the piece? I admit I haven't checked.

There's a price quoted at CoreProtect's site ($149.97) but you must mail them to buy one so I'm not sure that price apply if you want just one card.

regards,
T

[QQ2595]

Originally Posted by ErikAlbert

You mean one of these system recovery cards. China is full of them.

I am chinese, I think it is incorrect. there is only few company has the real ISR technology. in fact there are many OEM/Reseller one.

for example, the Rollback/Ez-fix/Reload all are the OEM one from a nanjing company.

after the storm of RobotDog, 90% of the ISR company die in few monthes.

[ErikAlbert]

Originally Posted by QQ2595

after the storm of RobotDog, 90% of the ISR company die in few monthes.

RobotDog is an executable and should have been terminated by Faronics Anti-Executable as an unauthorized executable or any other software with the same results.
You cannot trust ISR, it's online all the time and ISR needs protection of security softwares.
That was China's mistake : too much faith in ISR.

I have the combination of ShadowProtect, FDISR and Anti-Executable, no robotdog is going to get me.