Using Run As or Surun caused errors

[djg05]

Having a bit of spare time yesterday I thought I would try Surun out.

I took Tlu's advice creating another account as Admin and reduced my rights. As soon as I log back into my account (previously Admin) I find that I have lost all my personal settings and registered programs are now saying they do not have a valid registration.

Don't think this is down to Surun as it is the same if I use Run As.

I am using XP Pro fresh install 2 weeks ago. There are no other users on this m/c.

Can someone give some pointers please.

Edit.
I received advice elsewhere that I should be in the same group, I therefore added my self to all available groups, but still the same result.

I reloaded an earlier image and removed the only security which was Avast and still the same.


__________________
Regards

David

[Cosmo 203]

This does not look as as Surun-problem, indeed. A Surunner is nothing else than a LUA with the additional possibility to start a program with elevated rights. Changing the type of an account from admin to LUA or vice versa is a job of the OS (an admin can do this inside control panel, Surun can use this functionality) and will leave the settings for Windows and programs. If this does not work properly, something else is broken.

I do not understand, what you said about the groups: If you added yourself "to all available" does it mean, that your account - the one, who got a Surunner - is now member of users, admins, guests, surunners, and all at the same time?

As changing the type of an account should not make such a fault, I have no real idea for a solution. But what happens, if you now make some settings, than switch this account back to the groups of admins? Which settings do apply now?

[djg05]

Originally Posted by Cosmo 203

This does not look as as Surun-problem, indeed. A Surunner is nothing else than a LUA with the additional possibility to start a program with elevated rights. Changing the type of an account from admin to LUA or vice versa is a job of the OS (an admin can do this inside control panel, Surun can use this functionality) and will leave the settings for Windows and programs. If this does not work properly, something else is broken.

I do not understand, what you said about the groups: If you added yourself "to all available" does it mean, that your account - the one, who got a Surunner - is now member of users, admins, guests, surunners, and all at the same time?

As changing the type of an account should not make such a fault, I have no real idea for a solution. But what happens, if you now make some settings, than switch this account back to the groups of admins? Which settings do apply now?

Thanks Thomas

Agreed it is not a Surun problem but it has exposed something I was not aware of.

Just putting it simply. If I reduce my rights to Limited then all my registered programs become unregistered and some will not accept the activation number. All my window placements and wall paper are lost.

I am not sure where the fault lies. As I said, this is a recent install.

[Cosmo 203]

That you cannot re-register the programs does not necessarily be a problem; at least some of them only allow this by an admin. (On the other hand, in this case the activation should be valid for all users on the system.)

Nevertheless: What about using (and eventually re-registering) those programs in the newly created admin account?

Regarding the general problems, I remind you about my questions: In which groups are you added? What, if you switch the said account back to an admin type?

[djg05]

Originally Posted by Cosmo 203

That you cannot re-register the programs does not necessarily be a problem; at least some of them only allow this by an admin. (On the other hand, in this case the activation should be valid for all users on the system.)

Nevertheless: What about using (and eventually re-registering) those programs in the newly created admin account?

Regarding the general problems, I remind you about my questions: In which groups are you added? What, if you switch the said account back to an admin type?

Thanks Thomas

Yes - they could be re installed, but it took a long time to set this machine up that I don't really want to go down that route yet.

Enclosed is a pic of the groups I added. I have reverted to Admin for myself and there are no others apart from the default ones. When I switch back everything is restored. However using the "Run As" option brings back the same problem.

[Cosmo 203]

Originally Posted by djg05

Yes - they could be re installed, but it took a long time to set this machine up that I don't really want to go down that route yet.

I think, this is about using the programs with the newly(!) created Admin account. And I think, you misunderstood me. What I wanted is, that you try to start one or two of those programs inside the new admin-account and find out (thinking = not knowing = does not help you), if you have to re-register them there, if you can do that, if they remember any settings, that you make.

Originally Posted by djg05

Enclosed is a pic of the groups I added. I have reverted to Admin for myself and there are no others apart from the default ones. When I switch back everything is restored. However using the "Run As" option brings back the same problem.

Well, I understand it as follows - and you correct me, if I am wrong: The old admin is admin again. Further more this old account is member of all the other groups visible in the pic. Whoever has told you that, this is nonsense. Remove the membership of all groups except the Administrators. With that the account has all privileges that are needed.

Now, as this old account is an admin account again: did this bring your old settings? (I do not believe this, but the whole thing is strange.)

Remark: You tell, that RunAs brings back the old problems. The command RunAs (doesn't matter, if you use the build-in Windows' command or the one from Surun) means, that you run the said program with the context of another account, and that means, with the settings of that other account. So if a program has not been configured in this other account, with RunAs it must have no configuration. (That is the difference to "Start as Admin" in Surun - normally.)

[djg05]

Originally Posted by Cosmo 203

I think, this is about using the programs with the newly(!) created Admin account. And I think, you misunderstood me. What I wanted is, that you try to start one or two of those programs inside the new admin-account and find out (thinking = not knowing = does not help you), if you have to re-register them there, if you can do that, if they remember any settings, that you make.


Well, I understand it as follows - and you correct me, if I am wrong: The old admin is admin again. Further more this old account is member of all the other groups visible in the pic. Whoever has told you that, this is nonsense. Remove the membership of all groups except the Administrators. With that the account has all privileges that are needed.

Now, as this old account is an admin account again: did this bring your old settings? (I do not believe this, but the whole thing is strange.)

Remark: You tell, that RunAs brings back the old problems. The command RunAs (doesn't matter, if you use the build-in Windows' command or the one from Surun) means, that you run the said program with the context of another account, and that means, with the settings of that other account. So if a program has not been configured in this other account, with RunAs it must have no configuration. (That is the difference to "Start as Admin" in Surun - normally.)

Ok - those extra groups have been deleted on my admin account

From that account I have created another admin account. Logged off and changed to that account. Made my original admin account limited. Changed to that account.

Now the problems.
The desktop has changed. The icons are there but not in my arrangement. Wall paper is now just blue (default)

Single click has been changed to double click

Word now runs full screen instead of a window. The customised toolbars have been changed. On exit it says is no longer a registered program.

My email (Pocomail) says it is in Evaluation Mode and will not accept the correct activation key.

Excel will not run because the HIPS pop up does not come up in this mode. That applies to any other program needing permission.

There will be other issues but have not gone any further.

On returning my account to Admins everything is back to normal.

So to sum up. Changing my working account to limited looses all settings.

Hope I have answered your questios correctly.

[Cosmo 203]

Hi David,

at first I am glad to read this:

Originally Posted by djg05

On returning my account to Admins everything is back to normal.

Next, let me repeat, that changing the type of an account does not do what you experienced (normally). That means, something goes wrong on your machine. Out of that what I read by you, there is (only) one word, which makes me alarmed: HIPS.

I don't know your machine and cannot tell, if there is something else, but I see a great chance, that your HIPS either does not like the account-type change or does not work in a LUA at all. If this should be the case, disabling it (probably un-installing) will solve the issue.

Site-note: Beside other points this is a real paradox situation with HIPS: It is a security software, but partly those programs are not able to work in the most effective security environment: LUA. One can discuss a long time, how useful (or annoying) a HIPS is inside a LUA, but if a HIPS is not able to run in LUA this is a unbreakable show-stopper for me.

[djg05]

Originally Posted by Cosmo 203

Hi David,

Next, let me repeat, that changing the type of an account does not do what you experienced (normally). That means, something goes wrong on your machine. Out of that what I read by you, there is (only) one word, which makes me alarmed: HIPS.

I don't know your machine and cannot tell, if there is something else, but I see a great chance, that your HIPS either does not like the account-type change or does not work in a LUA at all. If this should be the case, disabling it (probably un-installing) will solve the issue.

Site-note: Beside other points this is a real paradox situation with HIPS: It is a security software, but partly those programs are not able to work in the most effective security environment: LUA. One can discuss a long time, how useful (or annoying) a HIPS is inside a LUA, but if a HIPS is not able to run in LUA this is a unbreakable show-stopper for me.

Hi Thomas

To clear up the HIPS matter. I do have a series of images that I kept as I built up machine. I went back to an early one where the only security that had been installed was Avast anti virus and that I uninstalled. The result was the same.

[Cosmo 203]

David, I mentioned HIPS, because you wrote, that the "HIPS pop up does not come up". If this is not relevant on the actual stage of the system, than I am out of idea. No one can say, what is special on your box except yourself.

[djg05]

Originally Posted by Cosmo 203

David, I mentioned HIPS, because you wrote, that the "HIPS pop up does not come up". If this is not relevant on the actual stage of the system, than I am out of idea. No one can say, what is special on your box except yourself.

I do appreciate all the trouble you have taken Thomas and please do not feel obliged to go any further. Something strange is happening but it is really deep.

I think when I have some more time, go back to a very early image and see if it ocurrs there.

Again - many thanks.