Please help w/new graphics card & system build

[Hairy Coo]

Innerpeace,
Quad cores dont work like that,you cant run 4 apps in parallel and tell them-you use core 1-you use 2-etc.
What you could do is install 4 different functions in your VM.

As regards the disk-that Click of Death is a worry and usually terminal-could be the head scratching the platter and data in a certain position.
But if the disk fails,the SeaWizard backup image probably wont work on a new disk-so backup your data separately.


You will have to clone from the old disk to the new-but I'm not sure what happens when you clone from IDe to SATA,should be OK
Does SeaWizard have a clone function and can it clone from IDE to SATA-check the Help file.

In any case, buy another SATA drive-250gb or bigger the better and faster-and better value usually, AND SOON!
You really dont have a choice.

You may be better off-if you now make the external the new active c systems disk.
You would have to create a Secure Zone on the IDE disk,backup a current image there-then use that image to restore to the external-then fit that internally and throw the IDE as far away as possible!

Also play around with Disk Management of course-loads of fun!!

[markymoo]

Originally Posted by innerpeace

Thanks for the explanation. It clears up some of the mystery about the different chips. I've been looking at the benchmark link you posted and now it's making more sense to me. I'll try and keep an eye on the models you mentioned and learn more about them.

That benchmark is abit out of date as it doesn't feature the newer ones. Heres more upto date. So you be really more at 50 hehe
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_20...=882&chart=435

Originally Posted by innerpeace

Hairy Coo, Your the reason I bought the P182. You had me hooked the moment you mentioned it .

You can't beat the experience of owning one.

Originally Posted by innerpeace

The price for XP Pro 64 and 32bit are the same. Is it ok getting the OEM license or would that be a bad decision. I'm not sure that I would by my software from them and will shop around for an OS license. When will they quit selling XP? Would it be cheaper to see if a local computer repair shop sells XP OEM licenses? Heck, I made my own XP Home disks from my OEM install, but I would need a license so Bill can eat.

I didn't know exactly what your using your pc for but it looks like you putting a decent system together for the future so i now say don't buy XP x64. I am presuming it mainly for gaming as you bought a better graphics card before. If you don't want to buy another operating sytem for awhile i say buy VISTA x64 instead as it will be more future proofed as it has directx10 to play games if you upgrade your graphics card yet again in the future for games such as Crysis. Games run slower in Vista but if you got a decent graphics card it be fine. If you already own XP 32bit then buy Vista X64. Now that SP1 is coming for Vista it should be better. There will be more compatibility with Vista x64 in the future. If Vista too much to buy then buy OEM 32bit XP as it will have 100% compatibility with everything and run faster and will be around for ages yet. The difference in speed between x86 and x64 is small in XP and games dont take advantage of x64 so much. So ideally buy a Intel Conroe Cpu to run x64 Vista for the future. Buying x64 will fully utilize all of the 4Gb.

Originally Posted by Hairy Coo

If you can be patient for a month or so,you could probably buy a cheaper CPU,as markymoo pointed out,which would be ideal.
But if you want to buy all the hardware now,Newegg have,for example, the dual core E6550 for $170 and the GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L mobo for $89-a good combination. The E6550 is rated at approx 2.4ghz but will overclock to around 3.4GHz with a good chip cooler. It seems that Newegg have deals all the time,so a package like this would suit you. I prefer Gigabyte or Asus mobos.

I say don't buy anything now or you regret. You buy the new affordable best which is the Intel 8000 series cpus just out. This will sustain you with better performance over the next 2 years+ that you keep it. The E6500 has been out since last year and is already outdated so not a wise choice to get. If you buy a 8000 you be able to overclock way over 4.0ghz and if you don't overclock then you have cheaper electric bills as it uses less power so you make up the saving that way. Just save your money for the best cpu and then getting the rest will fall easily into place.

It could be soon in the future as quad cores drop in price and become standard on the average desktop then developers will design for quad core and we see more quad software. The 2nd generation of quads that will come out soon will run faster and use less power. If i had to pick between a 8000 series or a quad i invest in a quad as it will be utilized in future more and still run fast enough without using all 4 cores at once, for general gaming go for dual core.

Another reason not to buy the latest motherboard is because it utilizes DDR3 memory and that is still expensive and not coming down much yet. As DDR2 memory is alot cheaper and not much slower you might as well buy the P35 motherboard. If you get Vista you be able to pick up very affordable 4Gb of DDR2.

Here's another good P35 board that has alot features with good price now that go lower to keep an eye on.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131225

or some of the Gigabytes P35 DS3 DS4 models like this one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128086

alternatively if you want to save some money. get a decent budget motherboard this one in particular.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157120

Originally Posted by innerpeace

I'm also getting ahead of myself here as my main focus is on the next month or so.

lol

You be able to use that external fine with your new parts and getting a internal SATA such as a Western Digital or Seagate 300gb won't be much as the last part to get.

If you get a CD-ROM buy one with a SATA connector as opposed to IDE as ide is being phased out and SATA makes for tidier cabling. Motherboard provide just one ide connector now but whats worse is uses jmicron controller which is really buggy. So avoid IDE.

[Hairy Coo]

markymoo,

Waiting would be the way to go,as you say, if Innerpeace can wait-except for the new SATA HDD!!

[markymoo]

@Hairy Coo
yes, it all down to his budget. the idea i trying to put forward is better to buy more expensive cpu even if it take 3 months to save up to buy that one part. it be better in the long run as the pc will have better speed to run the software of the future. even if it takes him 5-6 months to acquire all the parts. better that than going out any buying all the parts in one go and getting a lesser machine. he be more satisfied in the end having a better pc and be able to run the software in a years time and beyond. once he got a decent system all he need to do is upgrade the graphics card again in the future. yes theres bargains now but they be more bargains in a few month.

[Rico]

See: Fastest to Slowest

[lucas1985]

Originally Posted by innerpeace

I can't get Seatools (graphical) to recognize my mouse's and the keyboard won't work either.

Are your keyboard/mice USB? If so, enable legacy USB support or USB support for DOS in the BIOS.

[innerpeace]

Originally Posted by lucas1985

Are your keyboard/mice USB? If so, enable legacy USB support or USB support for DOS in the BIOS.

The keyboard is PS/2 and the mice I have tried are USB with the PS/2 adapters. I looked in the BIOS and I think those settings are enabled/default. I can't remember if I tried just using a USB mouse as my main mouse started getting flaky on me so I switched it to PS/2. I may have even tried my original ball PS/2 mouse. I'll do a little more experimenting.

Edit: I searched their KB and I'm not the only one with the problem. They also have no solution.

They also have Seatools for Windows and it requires .NET 2.0 which I don't have. Would it be worth making a special image with .NET just to run the diagnostics?

[Hairy Coo]

Originally Posted by innerpeace

They also have Seatools for Windows and it requires .NET 2.0 which I don't have. Would it be worth making a special image with .NET just to run the diagnostics?

In your case-absolutely as there seems a chance that your main drive is faulty,from what you previously described
You can always uninstall a previous version of Net .

[innerpeace]

Originally Posted by Hairy Coo

In your case-absolutely as there seems a chance that your main drive is faulty,from what you previously described
You can always uninstall a previous version of Net .

Ok, no problem. The drive has been making the occasional screech since before I reinstalled XP (end of Dec.) and then I made many images along the way. I hammered on it pretty good back then. I honestly don't mind reinstalling XP now that I know how, but I am curious about the HDD's state. There is also no mission critical info here and most of my data is already backed up.

I'm off to run the tests. I also haven't forgotten about the last several posts .

[Hairy Coo]

Innerpeace-is the IDE disk to be tested a Seagate?
Otherwise no point running SeaTools.

[innerpeace]

Originally Posted by Hairy Coo

Innerpeace-is the IDE disk to be tested a Seagate?
Otherwise no point running SeaTools.

Yep, both drives are Seagates. I only ran the 'SMART', 'Short Drive Self Test' and 'Short Generic Test's and they all passed. I may run the Long DST later if you think I should, but not tonight.

[innerpeace]

Originally Posted by markymoo

That benchmark is abit out of date as it doesn't feature the newer ones. Heres more upto date. So you be really more at 50 hehe
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_20...=882&chart=435

Thanks, I'll have a look see. LOL, I did check back at the other site and it had me a 50. It's also updated daily, but I don't know how reliable it is.

I didn't know exactly what your using your pc for but it looks like you putting a decent system together for the future so i now say don't buy XP x64. I am presuming it mainly for gaming as you bought a better graphics card before. If you don't want to buy another operating sytem for awhile i say buy VISTA x64 instead as it will be more future proofed as it has directx10 to play games if you upgrade your graphics card yet again in the future for games such as Crysis. Games run slower in Vista but if you got a decent graphics card it be fine. If you already own XP 32bit then buy Vista X64. Now that SP1 is coming for Vista it should be better. There will be more compatibility with Vista x64 in the future. If Vista too much to buy then buy OEM 32bit XP as it will have 100% compatibility with everything and run faster and will be around for ages yet. The difference in speed between x86 and x64 is small in XP and games dont take advantage of x64 so much. So ideally buy a Intel Conroe Cpu to run x64 Vista for the future. Buying x64 will fully utilize all of the 4Gb.

I would like to stick with XP and skip over Vista completely. I can always update the OS and gfx card later. For now, the machine will be used for internet and gaming. Not the latest games though. I would also like to try online gaming. I want to future proof the hardware the best I can. It seems that software is lagging far behind the hardware advancements so whatever I buy should be fine.

I say don't buy anything now or you regret. You buy the new affordable best which is the Intel 8000 series cpus just out. This will sustain you with better performance over the next 2 years+ that you keep it. The E6500 has been out since last year and is already outdated so not a wise choice to get. If you buy a 8000 you be able to overclock way over 4.0ghz and if you don't overclock then you have cheaper electric bills as it uses less power so you make up the saving that way. Just save your money for the best cpu and then getting the rest will fall easily into place.

The budget systems posted by everyone are great and would probably serve me well. I'm going to try to trade a little patience and time for better deals. I only see the 8400 at NewEgg. Is the 8000 series too new or in high demand?

It could be soon in the future as quad cores drop in price and become standard on the average desktop then developers will design for quad core and we see more quad software. The 2nd generation of quads that will come out soon will run faster and use less power. If i had to pick between a 8000 series or a quad i invest in a quad as it will be utilized in future more and still run fast enough without using all 4 cores at once, for general gaming go for dual core.

Which do you think would prove more reliable, quad or dual core tech? I'm leaning towards dual core because that is what you all are telling me.

Another reason not to buy the latest motherboard is because it utilizes DDR3 memory and that is still expensive and not coming down much yet. As DDR2 memory is alot cheaper and not much slower you might as well buy the P35 motherboard. If you get Vista you be able to pick up very affordable 4Gb of DDR2.

DDR2 is very cheap! It's cheaper that DDR at the moment. My gfx card has 256MB DDR3 and is OC'd, would the system I am building be more than enough to handle it? In other words, would my gfx card end up being the bottle neck? I'm guessing yes lol.

Thanks for links, I will try and keep an eye on the MB's you linked to. I will also only get SATA from now on. I may have to use the IDE burner I just bought. Hopefully it will work fine as it seems like a reliable burner.

[Hairy Coo]

Originally Posted by innerpeace

Yep, both drives are Seagates. I only ran the 'SMART', 'Short Drive Self Test' and 'Short Generic Test's and they all passed. I may run the Long DST later if you think I should, but not tonight.

Sounds encouraging-hopefully all may be well -but back up to date!

[innerpeace]

Originally Posted by Rico

See: Fastest to Slowest

Thanks for the link Rico .

Originally Posted by Hairy Coo

Sounds encouraging-hopefully all may be well -but back up to date!

Ok, I will be sure to make new backups. I will be very busy the next few days. I have to move some shelves on this cheap desk (the P182 is much taller than my old machine). I'm going to also go ahead an move my old hardware into the P182 case when it arrives, that way I'm not rushed into a hardware purchase and I'll have a chilly and beautiful machine . There is no way I can sit and stare at that new, shiny case without using it . When I finally get the new hardware, I should only have to re-install the MB, CPU, RAM and a HDD.

[Hairy Coo]

Originally Posted by innerpeace

I will be very busy the next few days. I have to move some shelves on this cheap desk (the P182 is much taller than my old machine). I'm going to also go ahead an move my old hardware into the P182 case when it arrives, that way I'm not rushed into a hardware purchase and I'll have a chilly and beautiful machine .

[markymoo]

innerpeace

If a Ps2 mouse won't work in dos it be less likely a USB one will as they sometimes need dos drivers if the dos software not got it built in. If the drive is clicking then it's had it's day. Backup any important data to the external drive and buy a new SATA one as Hairy Coo suggested.

Get this software HDTune. Download the free version http://www.hdtune.com/
Select Error Scan and press Start. If the drive ok for now you have all green squares. If theres any red you have bad and damaged. Not much point testing it with Seagate tools as that clicking means its on its way out. Chkdsk can mark the bad so data doesnt get written there.

Hairy Coo
Yes buy a new SATA but is that for his future system or for his present system? The m/b on that e-m might not take SATA. If so best to buy a small ide as well.

[innerpeace]

markymoo, it's a 'Seatools for dos' mouse problem. The software is just flawed and/or it doesn't like my hardware. Others have reported the same thing. I even tried partition magic's boot cd and the mouse works fine with it. The screech noise is not common like a clicking noise. Like I said, it's been doing this since before December. It hasn't made a peep today. I'm sorta used to it LOL. I will have a look at the program you mentioned and see what it says, Thanks .

My existing e/m MB has 4 SATA 1.5 inputs. One of them is connected to my ext. HDD (via a sudo eSATA bracket) which is SATA 3.0. In other words, I have a new Seagate drive installed in a separate purchased enclosure that is connected to a flimsy bracket that is connected to an onboard MB SATA 1.5 port.

If I have to, I will use this drive in my new hardware config. I would prefer to get a slightly smaller and cheaper drive as my working internal drive. Either way, I will have to get another SATA HDD eventually.

[markymoo]

no because no mouse driver is loaded. PM loads mouse.com before it loads. if you put mouse.com and type it at the dos prompt or in autoexec.bat before Seatools it will work. http://www.bootdisk.com/plan30/mouse.com the Seatools for dos works for ide. the enterprise version works for scsi. if thats alot messing about just use that program to see if it ok.

in that case get a 8190 or 8200 the lower ones or go for 8400 and put one in a budget motherboard. dual core fine. they selling out fast as there big demand. get XP 32bit. 2Gb DDR2 will suffice for XP. the graphic card will be fine http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/12/...ard/page6.html http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/...deocards-money

[innerpeace]

Before I fall asleep LOL, I installed and ran HDTune's free version, full and quick error scans and everything came up green . I rewired/re-routed my computer a little over a week ago and a loose or bad wire/cable could have been the culprit behind the weird noise. If it comes back, I will start to worry, until then, the build continues full bore .

For the record, I have both Seatools for Dos (graphical) and Seatools for Dos both burned on 2 cd's. The graphical is the one the mouse or keyboard doesn't work on. I have no idea how to use the Dos (non graphical) version. The one I ran earlier was Seatools for Windows.

I'm off to bed until tomorrow. I'll check back then. Cheers

[innerpeace]

Ok, all rested up . I re-arranged my desk today and made backups and images (thanks Hairy Coo). The case will be here tomorrow (Wed.). I think my MB is a micro ATX (9.6" X 9.6") and the P182 says "Motherboard: Up to Standard ATX (12” x 9.6”)". Before I start the swap, will my old MB work in the new case? Also, can I use a magnetized screwdriver in and around the components?

Originally Posted by markymoo

in that case get a 8190 or 8200 the lower ones or go for 8400 and put one in a budget motherboard. dual core fine. they selling out fast as there big demand. get XP 32bit. 2Gb DDR2 will suffice for XP. the graphic card will be fine http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/12/...ard/page6.html http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/...deocards-money

Thanks markymoo! Your right, they must be in big demand. I only see the 8400, but hopefully stock will increase when the prices drop.

[Hairy Coo]

Originally Posted by innerpeace

Ok, all rested up . I think my MB is a micro ATX (9.6" X 9.6") and the P182 says "Motherboard: Up to Standard ATX (12” x 9.6”)". Before I start the swap, will my old MB work in the new case? Also, can I use a magnetized screwdriver in and around the components?

On the RH side of the case you will see a lot of pre drilled holes-they are to accomodate the different size mobos--no probs!

I have always used a magnetic screwdriver -they are indispensible for all those times when the screws fall into some tiny unreachable crevice-just dont rub sensitive areas-the CPU etc.
As regards grounding yourself.I have only ever done that by gripping a faucet-tap-then got to work.

Innerpeace-think you should d/l the working trial version of ShadowProtect and create an image.
With SP you wont have any problems transferring the image -just in case something goes wrong.Sea Wizard cant or isnt as reliable at transferring images to new disks/computers,depending on the circumstances.

[innerpeace]

Originally Posted by Hairy Coo

On the RH side of the case you will see a lot of pre drilled holes-they are to accomodate the different size mobos--no probs!

Thanks! I can picture myself throwing parts against the wall if the holes didn't align LOL.

I have always used a magnetic screwdriver -they are indispensible for all those times when the screws fall into some tiny unreachable crevice-just dont rub sensitive areas-the CPU etc.
As regards grounding yourself.I have only ever done that by gripping a faucet-tap-then got to work.

Good to know, I'll avoid the cpu. I also wash my hands before entering the case and ground myself often to the case sides.

Innerpeace-think you should d/l the working trial version of ShadowProtect and create an image.
With SP you wont have any problems transferring the image -just in case something goes wrong.Sea Wizard cant or isnt as reliable at transferring images to new disks/computers,depending on the circumstances.

That's a very good and smart idea and most people wouldn't have thought of it. I did backup my D: data drive manually (copy and paste) today and that's probably the most important stuff I have. I honestly don't mind reinstalling windows because there are a couple things I would have done differently and would like to change. I also don't have many programs installed either. I'll think about it though because it is a very good idea.

[Hairy Coo]

Innerpeace
Good idea-just b/u your data and do a new install on a new SATA or on the external/internal SATA-bit risky on the clunky old IDE.
The case isnt grounded unless everything is plugged ie power cables.

[markymoo]

Here's some guide with pictures fitting a motherboard. The general rules apply.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/145/2
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1970648,00.asp

Just only put brass mounted standoffs where the holes are for the motherboard. Do not put standoffs in every hole in base of the case. No metal must be touching the motherboard. It maybe those are mounted already in the Antec case.

The 8400 came out in Febuary but only a few. Stock has dried up. In Uk can only get a 8200 at this time The other models have to wait until tomorrow. Alot have pre-ordered be trouble getting for awhile. There is still surplus stocks of quad core 6600 around so expect a good price on those.

Here's another review that compares the differences between the Antec P180 and the P182.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=8863&page=1

Decent closeup pics of P180 similar from page 1 onwards
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/...view/index.htm

That door is doublehinged but just be careful you dont snap it off. Only issue i got is airflow is reduced when the door is closed but be fine for your hardware. Theres multiple fans.

[Hairy Coo]

markymoo

Nice aids for building!

The p180 had the standoffs mounted only for the standard mobo.

Think the Hexus reviewer must have had all the fans set at low,which really isnt that effective-at medium the thermal qualities would have been improved quite a bit-at high its like a freezer-didnt agree with him about the cooling.
I also have a 12" fan on the top drive cage,which assists-giving a total of 4-12" fans.