Please help w/new graphics card & system build

[markymoo]

right then just run it with the lid removed and don't worry about the looks if in a safe location.

in an decent case with good airflow it can actually run cooler with side panel or lid on. the temps can go up when you take the side panel off but with it on there is a vacuum effect where the hot air is being forced out as the cooler air comes in thats if you place the fans in the right location. thats why i always have more fans blowing out situated at back of case and less fans blowing in at front. there is better cooling if the air is slightly pressured and wins over more air being blasted in which is contrary to what alot believe. you have to concentrate on getting rid of the hot air that's there already. btw those temp sensors are not always so accurate but give you an idea that why i like to use 2.

[lucas1985]

The drawback of negative air pressure is increased dust accumulation.

[markymoo]

yes thats the price you pay for lower temps but a quick blast with my vacuum sorts that out once in awhile.

[markymoo]

Originally Posted by Hairy Coo

Buy the Antec 180-basically the same (and the prior model to the 182) except for a few details which dont effect the cooling(ability to hide cabling,external fan switches)-its the one I'm using-looks the same too.
My CPU is 26c-ambient about 24c.
Use your existing PSU.
Its also quite silent-insulated sides.

I dont think it worth spending that much on an Antec on his current hardware but just live with his high temps. Best he buy a new case like an Antec for his new hardware in the future and dump his current system and use the g/c from it. If he buys a Antec for his current setup and wants to get new hardware later on he have to transfer his old hardware back into the old case if he wants it working to be used by someone else. Maybe he can find a cheaper case like he was saying. The Antec NSK4480B is half the price and buy a Antec P180 or the Antec Nine Hundred for his next system. Coolermaster do great budget quality designs like the Centurion 5. I get 16C-18C on idle with watercooling so your temps sound too good on air.

[Hairy Coo]

OK markymoo-guess you are right,it snot worth going any further with the current setup-but he could buy a P180 for $80-which is about half original price.Youve almost convinced me about watercooling,but I have these visions about waking up and finding the house awash with cooling water
Here are my temps-the white are the HDDs,black dualcore-using an Antec P180 case and Ultra Extreme cooler.
The yellow and red is Processor Status-giving CPU loading instantly

[markymoo]

Hairy Coo

i missed that on the 1/2 price sale. that 180 or 182 can be used for watercooling too. no it's very safe you use 7/16" tubing on 1/2" barbs and then you force on the tubing over the barbs as its smaller but stretches so tightly on. you need some serious force to get it off again and the water pressure wont force it off. you don't even need any hoseclamps its so tight. this also makes it look neater too. you test all with no pc parts for 48 hours and if no leaks you good to go. i just topped up with a cup of water only once in 4 months due to evaporation. distilled water is not conductive. there are so many cases where the entire pc been soaked or spillages in distilled and everything still works. you also use other non conductive liquids. i never had a leak. its very safe. if you ever get don't ever buy a watercooling kit as there inferior.

Great temps. What processor is it again? The Thermalright IFX-14 seems to be better than the Ultra Extreme.

Benchmark charts for Air coolers
http://artco.adsl24.co.uk/markymoo/air1.gif
http://artco.adsl24.co.uk/markymoo/air2.png

[innerpeace]

I checked out one of the P180 review links that Hairy Coo posted. After reading it, I really like what I see. I can't get it now so it will be for my first build sometime this year. I like the idea of it having 3 fans.

I tried gaming a little more last night with the side off and temps stayed lower and cooled more quickly. The highest I saw was 62C GPU and 50C CPU. This was with Battlefront on highest settings.

I took another hard look at my case fan and it measures 10cm. I also noticed that it has extra holes for a larger fan . I assumed that those holes were part of the holes made to vent the fan .

I'm not sure how to use speedfan to increase the case fan speed. Can I do this in the 'PC Health Status' section in the BIOS? Here are my default settings. Also, what should my CPU temps be at idle and what temps should it never reach?

Smart system fan target [ 40C ]
Smart system fan tolerance [ 3 ]

Smart CPU fan target [ 50C]
Smart CPU fan tolerance [ 5 ]

Thanks all,
innerpeace

[Hairy Coo]

markymoo,

Really impressive results on your part-the low temps,the o/c(4000 ) and the crystal clear graphic-all excellent!
Congratulations!

Probably will get a completely new rig when a few more hardware advances are made and will then get your advice about watercooling etc.

My CPU is a E6600 o/c to 3.4mhz,cant get it any higher,but may try increasing the voltages some more.Believe 3.6 is about the max.
A stress test at 3.4 results in max temps around 55c.
That Thermalright cooler is slightly better- hadnt heard of it-weighs 3.5 lbs!!

Innerpeace

The holes are probably for mounting a 12cm fan-but you need at least another two fans in the case,if you only have one-one inlet-one exhaust-one top exhaust if possible-all balanced for air pressure and flow.

Anyway-will let Markymoo give his expert advice

[innerpeace]

Originally Posted by Hairy Coo

The holes are probably for mounting a 12cm fan-but you need at least another two fans in the case,if you only have one-one inlet-one exhaust-one top exhaust if possible-all balanced for air pressure and flow.

Yes, the holes are 12cm apart. I'm going to go ahead and get a 120mm fan to replace my current case fan. There isn't much room at the top of this little box to install a fan. Just a little room between the PSU and DVD burner. I don't know of anywhere else I could mount a third fan unless I could find a way to install one up front blowing backwards or install one on the removable side panel that I would have to disconnect every time I removed it.

[markymoo]

Originally Posted by innerpeace

I checked out one of the P180 review links that Hairy Coo posted. After reading it, I really like what I see. I can't get it now so it will be for my first build sometime this year. I like the idea of it having 3 fans.

I tried gaming a little more last night with the side off and temps stayed lower and cooled more quickly. The highest I saw was 62C GPU and 50C CPU. This was with Battlefront on highest settings.

I took another hard look at my case fan and it measures 10cm. I also noticed that it has extra holes for a larger fan . I assumed that those holes were part of the holes made to vent the fan .

I'm not sure how to use speedfan to increase the case fan speed. Can I do this in the 'PC Health Status' section in the BIOS? Here are my default settings. Also, what should my CPU temps be at idle and what temps should it never reach?

Smart system fan target [ 40C ]
Smart system fan tolerance [ 3 ]

Smart CPU fan target [ 50C]
Smart CPU fan tolerance [ 5 ]

Thanks all,
innerpeace

There's room for a slightly bigger fan but it's not going to make much of a difference. Its like an oven inside. I seen the pic of your case from the front only. I don't want to recommend you start hacking your case to bits (especially if you going to sell it again) but make some kind of extra ventilation would be worthwhile. You can only do so much with that kind of case. What would benefit is cutting out a hole(borehole) for the side panel or top to take a 120mm fan which would be directly above the gfx card and see if theres enough clearance inside for 3/4" fan depth. There could be some obstructions in front of your fans so maybe possible to reduce these.

Take a look at these to give you an idea.
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqFYLCli9qY-
http://www.modders-inc.com/modules.p...ory&ndht_id=23

Unless the fan is connected to the motherboard you won't be able to control the speed of the fan and then it has to be a 4 pin connector(can get a 4 pin adapter) or get a fan controller. If the fan connected to the PSU then forget it. You won't be able to adjust it in the bios either. The smaller the fan the more noise it makes and can make alot more noise if obstruction.

A table that list the Max Temp for Amd. It be around 70C.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/143/9
They run around 25-40 on idle depending on ambient air temp.

[markymoo]

Originally Posted by Hairy Coo

markymoo,

Really impressive results on your part-the low temps,the o/c(4000 ) and the crystal clear graphic-all excellent!
Congratulations!

Probably will get a completely new rig when a few more hardware advances are made and will then get your advice about watercooling etc.

My CPU is a E6600 o/c to 3.4mhz,cant get it any higher,but may try increasing the voltages some more.Believe 3.6 is about the max.
A stress test at 3.4 results in max temps around 55c.
That Thermalright cooler is slightly better- hadnt heard of it-weighs 3.5 lbs!!

that was in 2006 i havent bothered upgrading since then i wait another year. DDR2 is fantastic price at moment. 4GB for $100 that X48 chipset will make DDR3 official so probably see DDR2 fall further. waste of money getting DDR3 this year. overclocking to its limit is not so beneficial for general use as the heat reduces performance and cpu throttles back. best to strike a balance. coolers now weigh upto 4lbs but no stress on board as they come with anchor ropes!

[innerpeace]

Originally Posted by markymoo

There's room for a slightly bigger fan but it's not going to make much of a difference. Its like an oven inside. I seen the pic of your case from the front only. I don't want to recommend you start hacking your case to bits (especially if you going to sell it again) but make some kind of extra ventilation would be worthwhile. You can only do so much with that kind of case. What would benefit is cutting out a hole(borehole) for the side panel to take a 120mm fan which would be directly above the gfx card and see if theres enough clearance inside for 3/4" fan depth. There could be some obstructions in front of your fans so maybe possible to reduce these.

Thanks markymoo for the links. Both my CPU and case fan have 3 pin connectors hooked to the MB. So, you don't think that replacing the existing case fan with a better 120mm fan with an adjustable switch will work? Noise is not a problem. What if I did that and used the old fan, kept it hooked to the MB and installed it like you suggested around the GPU? Of course I would try them one at a time to avoid cutting a hole in the side panel.

Both sides of my case have 2" high vents, 1" up from the bottom of the case, almost the entire length of the sides. On the CPU side, it has a cpu vent, no duct. That's basically it except for what ever comes in from the front. I tried removing the plastic piece around the media reader to let more air in the front and it had no effect. I could feel the air moving, but it didn't help the temps. I wonder if installing the new fan and duct taping part of the lower inlets would help? Don't laugh . Wouldn't that force more front to back air movement? Of coarse I would consider a balance between in and out airflow. FWIW, I have helped install a few heating and air systems while I was a carpenter and I have also helped build a dirt modified from the ground up including the sheet metal.

[DVD+R]

Sorry it took a day or 2 to answer questions about the nVidia Ultra Drivers, but for those that ask here you go....

nVidia GeFORCE 9 Release 174 WHQL

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_174.16.html

nVidia GeFORCE 8 Ultra ForceWare Release 169 WHQL


http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvist...9.25_whql.html

[Dieselman]

You can mod the 174.16's to use on any card. Right now I am using the 174.20's. Make sure to use Drive Sweeper in safe mode also.

http://downloads.guru3d.com/ForceWar...load-1866.html

[Hairy Coo]

Innerpeace,

Two alternatives

(1) just leave side off permanently(will collect junk),but easy to clean with vacuum cleaner plastic nozzle-quite safe.

(2)Leave 10" in front-fit powerful 12" or larger if possible at rear exhaust-THEN cut hole in side panel and fit intake fan-near graphics card-connect to other cabling with long cable so no problem taking off side.
All this is so easy to do.More air should be exhausting than entering by a small amount-negative pressure-the fan specs will tell all.
Forget about easy fixes which wont do much at all.
Dont get adjustable speed fans-thats for when you have enough cooling and can afford to turn the speed down-just get powerful low noise fans .

[markymoo]

its the kind of case unless you do something drastic like fitting 2x80mm or 120mm at the side and getting rid out of the hot air then forget it just live with it with the panel off. you've stuck a hot graphics card in a case that wasn't designed for it, its an emachine case. whenever you upgrade use the gfx on next one pc and stick your old gfx back in em. fans run at full speed, if they were motherboard controlled they would i'm sure be going as fast as they can due to the heat. you would only be able to slow them down. if you a carpenter you have no problem cutting out holes in the top or the panel let it breathe. my best advice is start collecting those parts you can get so much for so little these days. a intel cpu would enhance your graphics and give you much more power. Just get a cheap Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 and cheap motherboard and this will crush your 3200+ you be able to get a case, cpu, 2gb memory and motherboard for $280

case - great cooling for your needs with extra space to fit more fans
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119068
pics
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowIm...+Computer+Case
cpu
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...%2bcpu%2be4500
motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813127024
memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145098

[innerpeace]

Thanks once again Hairy Coo and markymoo. You all are telling me the same thing, so I just have to live with it. I'll leave the side off for now until some other arrangement can be made.

Originally Posted by Hairy Coo

All this is so easy to do.More air should be exhausting than entering by a small amount-negative pressure-the fan specs will tell all.

Thanks for this, it will help me if and when I make the mods.

markymoo, your are right, I stuck a hot gfx card in a bad case. All my heat is coming from the card. I am going to start saving for parts. Thanks for the suggested parts and the links. That case looks pretty good, even better now that the price of the P180 went back up to $130 . I am going to wait until the prices drop on the chips like you said they should in the near future after intel releases it's new chips. Expect a PM when that happens . Trust me, I'm soooo tempted in getting what you suggested right now. I would also have to consider the cost of an OS and decide which I wanted. I really don't want Vista, but I heard the prices fell this week.

Thanks,
innerpeace

[Hairy Coo]

markymoo
nice basic system!!
Innerpeace
stay with XP

[markymoo]

its onboard graphics right on that emachine not a seperate card when i said stick the old card back in if you upgrade.

Sort your hardware out first! You don't even need Vista even if it free. It won't do you any favours. Put the money into getting a tidy system. That spec was a good example of hardware that exceed your current system alot for little cost will work well together in a decent budget case. If you want Vista for DirectX 10 there's little out for that and needs heavy hardware. You need 2gb+ for Vista ideally. Keep focused on collecting parts.

[innerpeace]

Originally Posted by markymoo

its onboard graphics right on that emachine not a seperate card when i said stick the old card back in if you upgrade.

Yep, it's an integrated Radeon Xpress 200. I knew what you meant though. You are very thorough .

Sort your hardware out first! You don't even need Vista even if it free. It won't do you any favours. Put the money into getting a tidy system. Vista for DirectX 10 but needs heavy hardware. Keep focused on collecting parts.

I will get XP, I really like it anyways. This time I would like to get XP Pro if I can. I also think you and Hairy Coo are tag teaming me LOL. Seriously, if you all keep agreeing on things, then both of your suggestions must be good.

I have a question about SLI as my card has this capability. Would I need 2 PCI express x16 slots to make it work? I'm thinking about future proofing my MB investment.

[lucas1985]

Don't bother with SLI. It isn't worthwhile (unless you pump gold out of your nose and have a huge display)

[innerpeace]

Originally Posted by lucas1985

Don't bother with SLI. It isn't worthwhile (unless you pump gold out of your nose and have a huge display)

LOL! Ok thanks, I won't worry about it. There is no gold or a big display here. If I did pump gold out my nose, I would send you a tissue .

[markymoo]

lol

lucas right. it creates headaches using SLI and you need a BIG monitor to take advantage of very high resolutions. you can get so much power on 1 card anyway theres little point unless you mega rich. you thinking of SLI and Vista lol when you should be saving for the basics like cpu memory and motherboard.

[innerpeace]

I didn't research SLI. From a review at newegg, someone suggested getting 2 of the cards I currently have and running them together. I would imagine it would be very hard to keep cool.

I only mentioned Vista because of DX10 which my card was capable of running. Personally, I would rather skip Vista all together. As far as a monitor, I plan on getting a 19" at the end of the year if the price is right. I see no reason for a larger monitor for computing.

I've looked over 2 guides showing how to build a computer. I think I can handle the build, but the BIOS stuff looks difficult. I'm not going to worry about it now though. I'm going to focus on the hardware. I could buy the parts now, but I admit that I am cheap and want to save money. I will trade patience for a few bucks here and there. I want to see older Intel chips hit there lowest price and then I will jump. I also really want that P180 case when it goes back on sale.

Cheers

[markymoo]

sure. i'm saying don't be swayed on impulse buying something you don't need when there's other hardware prioritys. there's still so many directx 9 great games around to play. if you can sort out your hardware first then you can be content on being able to run any game,software you throw at it.

Here is a chart of all cpus. You at no. 50 in the charts.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html

Your 3200+ is equal to Pentium 4 2.2 If you get a cheap intel you be in the top 20 on that list.

Forget the monitor. You existing 1024 is fine. Its pointless buying 19" if you intent on gaming as your pc be too slow to run at 1200+ res. It better to run lower resolution with more graphic settings turned on. Forget about BIOS. Alot good settings are set on auto already. You can learn these in time. You need to save up and get these in this order. Case > Cpu > Motherboard > Memory. You can get away buying a cheap case if it got good cooling features and put it towards the next item. The P180 good to get if you going to keep it a long time as it bigger than what you need and you upgrade further still otherwise buy a smaller case and cheaper. Yes wait till April at least.