Privacy matters ... Alternative to Gmail ?

[Bls440]

Hello,

The title says it all. I'm looking for an alternative to Gmail / Yahoo Mail, both known to have no limits upon data collects, privacy intrusion and hard advertising. (You can read some facts there http://www.gmail-is-too-creepy.com/ ).

I'm sure an alternative exists, just as fast, with great storage/features.

I hope you're not going to move this thread away, as everyone should think about Google and their hidden activities, accordingly this is a topic of current interests.

[zapjb]

I like Yahoo. Afaik the privacy concerns are nil. If not link me please.

[Bls440]

Well I've only heard "rumors" about Yahoo. It does create a cookie like Gmail, which cannot be erased that easily.

[WSFuser]

Maybe inbox.com?

[Bls440]

Thanks, I'll give it a try.
Someone suggested me http://mail.litepost.com.
Very fast, unlimited storage but no features at all (basically reading/writing emails, nothing more).

Feel free to give me some more !

[Climenole]

Hi Bls440

Originally Posted by Bls440

The title says it all. I'm looking for an alternative to Gmail / Yahoo Mail, both known to have no limits upon data collects, privacy intrusion and hard advertising. (You can read some facts there http://www.gmail-is-too-creepy.com/ ).

Let me laugh

Typical "leftist" paranoia. Just use Gmail with Ff extension Customise Google and encrypt your mails with enigmail and that's it.

Originally Posted by Bls440

I hope you're not going to move this thread away, as everyone should think about Google and their hidden activities, accordingly this is a topic of current interests.

Google is a commercial society: a company who offer services and make money with advertising. Nothings is free. If it' s free for you it's because somebody else pay for it. Right? They sell targetted advertisement to their clients and to do this they have to collect information like any marketing department in any company around the world.

Which hidden activities actually ? And if there's so "hidden" why the guy of this web site know this ? ( Crystal ball ? )

A Google Conspiration Theory ? An other one ?

Quote:

"Google offers more storage for your email than other Internet service providers that we know about. The powerful searching encourages account holders to never delete anything."

Oh yeah? So they keep the mail I send to my brother last week:

"Would you like to drink a beer with me at St-Patrick Pub in Qc city? "

I don't care. They can keep this for ever.

If you need to send really confidential mail why not using Tor and their email hidden service ? Or simply use US Postage...

http://tor.eff.org/

Please keep calm.

Best regards,

[Cerxes]

FastMail

/C.

[Bls440]

Climenole :

Every week I can hear some new stories about Google privacy leaks.
I don't really care about the almost invisible/discrete ads on Gmail, but I do about them keeping/reading my mails even after removing them. Would you like your postal service to read every letter/postcard you sent ? I don't.
Of course, everything has a price, but I do care about my privacy. Ads ? OK ; tracking users with cookies, almost spying on them thanks to their e-mail provider ? No thanks.
I think Google is omnipresent, and big enough to collect enough informations on us via some other ways behind our backs. Now if I can limit the violation of privacy I'll do it ; I won't be using their mail service.
This is not about paranoia, this about reality ; Google already acknowledged those facts.

[Dogbiscuit]

Have you checked out Hushmail?

[Jim Verard]

Freemail

I would like some suggestions too.

Avoid these companies:

AOL
Google
Microsoft
Yahoo

[Bls440]

Thanks for husmail, looks great.

However, Freemail seems to be very limited ; 2 MB storage and dedicated at lithuanians

[Climenole]

Hi Bls440

Originally Posted by Bls440

Climenole :
Every week I can hear some new stories about Google privacy leaks.

Not only Google... Internet is not the best place to keep privacy. Ask this to the poeple using the Job site Monster.com ... Isn't a worst case than collecting some anonymous data from emails ?

Google is now the new scarecrow. Remember few times ago? That was Microsoft... with all (false) stories about MS spying their users?

Did you realised that all communications (with few exceptions) over Internet are done IN CLEAR ? From your PC to the servers/routers of your ISP, transmitted with many other servers-routers until the data reach the destination ?

Yes, we have to keep an eye on Google and all the other to protect privacy.

There's two more important privacy threats over Internet than that one:
spywares spreaded by cyber criminals and naive poeple spreading their personnal information on "social" web site like MyFace...

That's the big problem: not Google.

Originally Posted by Bls440

I don't really care about the almost invisible/discrete ads on Gmail, but I do about them keeping/reading my mails even after removing them. Would you like your postal service to read every letter/postcard you sent ? I don't.
Of course, everything has a price, but I do care about my privacy. Ads ? OK ; tracking users with cookies, almost spying on them thanks to their e-mail provider ? No thanks.

Okay. They "read"... Just to encrypt your emails with Gmail or any other mail services. Did a 2048 bit encryption is enough for you?

Originally Posted by Bls440

I think Google is omnipresent, and big enough to collect enough informations on us via some other ways behind our backs. Now if I can limit the violation of privacy I'll do it ; I won't be using their mail service.
This is not about paranoia, this about reality ; Google already acknowledged those facts.

Which facts ? The ones in that "Joe Doe" web site you give as reference?
Reality? Okay... There's many "reality" (most unreal but who care?)


Keep calm. Encrypt your emails if it's so private...
With GnuPG + Enigmail...

And used the email services in the Hidden services of the Tor network.
(If you trust the Tor poeple better than Google...)

Protect your information against spywares. This is a more important threat.

The most important factor in privacy protection is the common sense.
Without this, poeple either fall in naivety or paranoia.

Have a nice day.

[eniqmah]

lol
It's my guess that you're a nobody to Google and they are not wasting their time reading your emails probably because they're busy making billions of dollars being an innovative and well liked company. Thus, it's my suggestions that your anonimity and emails are actually safer with them than some other company.

[Jim Verard]

I find one useful link which have plenty of International e-mail services:

http://www.fepg.net/foreign.html

However, plenty of these links are broken or somehow difficult to access.

I think it's a good idea to post here the webmail services which doesn't require Java/Javascript enabled in order to make a new register and gain access to their mailbox.

I know some of them works this way.

[Osaban]

Originally Posted by Climenole

Hi Bls440

Not only Google... Internet is not the best place to keep privacy. Ask this to the poeple using the Job site Monster.com ... Isn't a worst case than collecting some anonymous data from emails ?

Google is now the new scarecrow. Remember few times ago? That was Microsoft... with all (false) stories about MS spying their users?

Did you realised that all communications (with few exceptions) over Internet are done IN CLEAR ? From your PC to the servers/routers of your ISP, transmitted with many other servers-routers until the data reach the destination ?

Yes, we have to keep an eye on Google and all the other to protect privacy.

There's two more important privacy threats over Internet than that one:
spywares spreaded by cyber criminals and naive poeple spreading their personnal information on "social" web site like MyFace...

That's the big problem: not Google.

I couldn't agree more. There are companies that have achieved wonderful things eg Google and MS, yes Microsoft, and for some obscure psychological reasons their corporate size induces a certain awe and suspicious behaviour a' la 'big brother'.

They are making money... So what! Is anybody around here working without a salary? Climenole is right anything that goes on the internet can eventually be intercepted and read if it's not encrypted. For very confidential matters there are international couriers and the good old registered mail.

[LockBox]

I think many of us in the USA are more concerned with individual civil liberties and privacy rights; and hence, the massive amounts of data in the hands of one company like Google. That data can be manipulated, collated, refined, examined and ultimately sold, handed over to the government, among many other things. Many who posted here are right: They don't care about the "See you at 7 for a beer" emails. What they might care about are buying habits, personal lives of certain figures, who knows what else? To me, to NOT be concerned about that amount of data in the hands of one company is foolhardy. Didn't anyone here read Animal Farm? 1984? Security through obscurity is also a foolish notion. With super-computers at Google's disposal, all those emails, documents, spreadsheets, etc. can be collated and called up by IP and other identifiers within a matter of seconds. This is 2007 - our lives are digital. Give your information to a single company at your own peril.

Oh, HushMail is your best bet for private commuication.

[Bls440]

I can't agree with you more Gerard, though I understand opposite point of views.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

[Osaban]

Originally Posted by Gerard Morentzy

I think many of us in the USA are more concerned with individual civil liberties and privacy rights; and hence, the massive amounts of data in the hands of one company like Google. [b]That data can be manipulated, collated, refined, examined and ultimately sold, handed over to the government, among many other things.

So that means anybody else living outside the US is not aware of or they are more inclined to give up their own privacy to an all great american corporation! It doesn't make any sense. If you don't trust Google, fine. You should not use the internet as a means of communication.

The government, your government has already shown blatantly what they can get away with, and don't tell me Google is now the culprit.

[LockBox]

So that means anybody else living outside the US is not aware of or they are more inclined to give up their own privacy to an all great american corporation!

It doesn't mean they are less aware, it means many are more accepting of government intrusion into their private affairs (polls have shown this) than Americans. I'm just extrapolating that to include big corporations.

If you don't trust Google, fine. You should not use the internet as a means of communication.

You seem to believe that some semblance of privacy and use of the Internet are mutually exclusive. I very much disagree with you. So do many other organizations and individuals that are working on this issue. Your statement, "You should not use the Internet as a means of communication," makes no sense in relationship to privacy or to Google. There is a BIG difference when one corporation collects, manipulates, collates, analyzes, and God knows what else with user data. It's not just a matter of individuals choosing not to use that service - it is a societal problem.

I agree the American government is a big part of the problem - at a lot of levels - but that does not excuse the blatant disregard for users privacy by Google's business tactics - especially on a public so willing to accept them. Many, not fully realizing the possible ramifications.

[Osaban]

Originally Posted by Gerard Morentzy

It doesn't mean they are less aware, it means many are more accepting of government intrusion into their private affairs (polls have shown this) than Americans. I'm just extrapolating that to include big corporations.



You seem to believe that some semblance of privacy and use of the Internet are mutually exclusive. I very much disagree with you. So do many other organizations and individuals that are working on this issue. Your statement, "You should not use the Internet as a means of communication," makes no sense in relationship to privacy or to Google. There is a BIG difference when one corporation collects, manipulates, collates, analyzes, and God knows what else with user data. It's not just a matter of individuals choosing not to use that service - it is a societal problem.

I agree the American government is a big part of the problem - at a lot of levels - but that does not excuse the blatant disregard for users privacy by Google's business tactics - especially on a public so willing to accept them. Many, not fully realizing the possible ramifications.

I still find your assumption about privacy being more of a sensitive matter for North Americans very arguable (polls don't mean mean much really, just see how many predicted a come back of the present US government).

You've made your point about Google which I personally accept the risks as I would with any other provider. Now let me understand, you use HushMail claiming it is safe (again there isn't any internet exchange that is tamper-proof), but what happens if you are sending an e-mail to a friend who is with g-mail? Your message will inevitably enter the g-mail universe. Are you going to exclude all your contacts with g-mail?

[LockBox]

Tit for tat. We could go on and on.

One personal word to you: I LOVE your signature quote.

[noway]

I use www.safe-mail.net

I don't even need to use cookies with it.

[Jim Verard]

Originally Posted by Osaban

what happens if you are sending an e-mail to a friend who is with g-mail? Your message will inevitably enter the g-mail universe. Are you going to exclude all your contacts with g-mail?

I guess if we want to say something important or confidential, encrypted messages maybe are the best choice, assuming the receiver knows the correct password and it's the only one who may understand what the whole message means.

For example, try to decode this message. Make sure you're not missing anything.

?b64geFbCmVKFitcPs533BjnHSyWLj37Rq/iUtVg11AnDsYn9/zlfxpBQX6tF/Br
Jmb032qux2VKhklX/kpGqMCvyA==

http://www.stayinvisible.com/encryption.html (Javascript needs to be enabled in order to use this website)

The password is:

I am concerned about my privacy! (32 letters)

Push the decrypt button and you will see a famous quote.

[Osaban]

Originally Posted by Jim Verard

I guess if we want to say something important or confidential, encrypted messages maybe are the best choice, assuming the receiver knows the correct password and it's the only one who may understand what the whole message means.

For example, try to decode this message. Make sure you're not missing anything.

?b64geFbCmVKFitcPs533BjnHSyWLj37Rq/iUtVg11AnDsYn9/zlfxpBQX6tF/Br
Jmb032qux2VKhklX/kpGqMCvyA==

http://www.stayinvisible.com/encryption.html (Javascript needs to be enabled in order to use this website)

The password is:

I am concerned about my privacy! (32 letters)

Push the decrypt button and you will see a famous quote.

I agree that if you want to send an encrypted message and provided the recipient knows how to decode it, you are going to achieve a perfect hermetic system.

But let's face it, is it practical? How many of your contacts are going to play this game? More importantly, there is a remote chance you might attract attention from internet police detectives who are not always snooping for the wrong reasons: Paedophils, bank accounts crackers are real criminals.

Basically what Gerard Morentzy so eloquently stated about privacy and Google is true, but it's almost like expecting some free TV stations to run without ads. Google's target is marketing, and I believe it stops there. In this thread there's a definite innuendo about Google controlling our lives, and delivering our privacy to unscrupulous politicians.

Well if that disturbs you, there are alternatives without defaming a successful company.

[ronjor]

Alternative to Gmail

Let's stay on this thread topic and away from politics in general. One very off topic post removed.