KAV Crashing - Time to change again, I guess

[richrf]

Hi guys,

It has been awhile since I've been here. Quiet times. But times have changed and so must I. I've been using ZoneAlarm and KAV in combination for a few years, but the two have now evolved into a living mess.

I am running ZA 7 along with KAV 6 and the darn machine freezes because of a KAV crash two or three times a day. Apparently, this is a common problem among ZA and Kaspersky users. It super annoying, since the machine freezes for about 10 minutes, while it does what it has to do. I don't want to pull the plug, since I don't want to corrupt the machine.

So, here is my question. Where are we at nowadays? Are people running ZA firewall with the ZA AV, or are they going with ZA and some other AV such as McAfee, or what? A couple of good choices would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Rich

[larryb52]

Originally Posted by richrf

Hi guys,

It has been awhile since I've been here. Quiet times. But times have changed and so must I. I've been using ZoneAlarm and KAV in combination for a few years, but the two have now evolved into a living mess.

I am running ZA 7 along with KAV 6 and the darn machine freezes because of a KAV crash two or three times a day. Apparently, this is a common problem among ZA and Kaspersky users. It super annoying, since the machine freezes for about 10 minutes, while it does what it has to do. I don't want to pull the plug, since I don't want to corrupt the machine.

So, here is my question. Where are we at nowadays? Are people running ZA firewall with the ZA AV, or are they going with ZA and some other AV such as McAfee, or what? A couple of good choices would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Rich

I've used Look n stop & Nod32 with good success on my laptop but backed it up with anti malware Grisoft...

[WSFuser]

Have you considered leaving ZA instead of KAV? Just a thought...

[richrf]

Originally Posted by WSFuser

Have you considered leaving ZA instead of KAV? Just a thought...

Yes, this is of course a possibility. The reasons for leaving KAV are two-fold:

1) It's KAV that keeps crashing.

2) KAV support is non-existent.

I think you would agree that it would be difficult to keep software products from this type of vendor, but I would like to hear contrary experiences, since I want to be expeditious but thorough in my due diligence. I really have to get things changed on my machine. It has really deterioriated quite a bit since the last couple of KAV updates.

Thanks for your response.

Rich

[richrf]

Originally Posted by larryb52

I've used Look n stop & Nod32 with good success on my laptop but backed it up with anti malware Grisoft...

Hi,

Thanks for the recommendations. I will look into it. I would like to keep either ZA or KAV if I could, but I total overhaul is not out of the question, if a good stable combination is available. Thanks again for your help.

Rich

[btman]

Originally Posted by richrf

Yes, this is of course a possibility. The reasons for leaving KAV are two-fold:

1) It's KAV that keeps crashing.

2) KAV support is non-existent.

I think you would agree that it would be difficult to keep software products from this type of vendor, but I would like to hear contrary experiences, since I want to be expeditious but thorough in my due diligence. I really have to get things changed on my machine. It has really deterioriated quite a bit since the last couple of KAV updates.

Thanks for your response.

Rich

I'd suggest getting rid of ZA and trying KIS 7. And... I've always had ALL of my questions answered on the Kaspersky forums.

[richrf]

Originally Posted by btman

I'd suggest getting rid of ZA and trying KIS 7. And... I've always had ALL of my questions answered on the Kaspersky forums.

Hi there,

Well, in this case KAV went AWOL. In fact, I never remember KAV support ever responding to any of my questions, other than asking for a dump. You can check for my userid on the KAV forum to confirm. I want to say that KAV's support is absolutely the worse I have ever come across, but then again, so was Norton's. Does 0=0?

Don, on the forums, has always been great and has been the primary person to respond to my questions (as well as most others), and of course, when it comes to a problem like this, there is nothing he can do. Either KAV support helps or they don't. Don can only do what he is within his domain of capabilities, given that he doesn't have the source code.

I'll keep my eye on KAV 7, but the question I must always ask myself, is can I go on run blind without any support with an AV - and for how long. It is a bit frustrating, I think you will understand, have an AV go down two or three times a day, without any acknowledgement, or a peep of any kind, from KAV support. What a bunch of .... Well, maybe they are just a manifestation of the owner/management of the company. This is usually the case.

Rich

[richrf]

Hi guys,

How is BitDefender doing nowadays? Any recent tests that show its prowness and is it competitive with KAV? Does it work well with ZA 7 (does it even need ZA)? I remember it being another good choice, but that has to be almost two years ago, since I did any AV due diligence. I see BitDefender is coming out with a new version, which I probably shouldn't migrate to, until it has been through its paces. Thanks for any info.

Rich

[lodore]

Hello,
have you tryed asking at the kaspersky forum?
http://forum.kaspersky.com/index.php?act=idx
it would be best to do that and get advice there before you decide to ditch Kav.
i found build 614 of kis6.0 unreliable.
but atm im using kis7.0 119 and its flawless.
so i wuld surgest downloading kav7.0 from this link
http://www.kaspersky.com/productupda...pter=186437046
but ask for advice in the fourm first.
uninstall kav 6.0 reboot and install kav 7.0
good luck
lodore

[JerryM]

I also had problems with the later versions of KIS 6, but KIS 7 has run without a single problem. I am convinced that KL fixed the problems I had.

Give V7 a trial before you decide to ditch it.

Regards,
Jerry

[richrf]

Originally Posted by lodore

Hello,
have you tryed asking at the kaspersky forum?
http://forum.kaspersky.com/index.php?act=idx
it would be best to do that and get advice there before you decide to ditch Kav.
i found build 614 of kis6.0 unreliable.
but atm im using kis7.0 119 and its flawless.
so i wuld surgest downloading kav7.0 from this link
http://www.kaspersky.com/productupda...pter=186437046
but ask for advice in the fourm first.
uninstall kav 6.0 reboot and install kav 7.0
good luck
lodore

Yes, I would of course go to their technical support and forum first. It was on the KAV forum that I was informed that the problems I am experiencing are well known. The support from KAV (as has always been mhy experience) is deafening silent. It is truly is non-existent. I took the trouble to send them dumps that they requested and never heard anything from them. Not even a thank you. It is literally impossible to provide support worse than what they are providing.

There has been lots of talk about KAV 7 problems, so I don't want to jump into it. I'll wait a week or so, but the screams and anguish that you will be hearing are those that cry out from my body every time KAV freezes my system with the concurrent sound of a crash.

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate it.

Rich

[lodore]

Hello again richrf,
I havent had any issues with kis7.0 and have used it since the 119 build first came out.
is it at all possible to ditch zone alarm for another firewall?
there seems to be more problems with zonalarm.
lodore

[richrf]

Originally Posted by lodore

Hello again richrf,
I havent had any issues with kis7.0 and have used it since the 119 build first came out.
is it at all possible to ditch zone alarm for another firewall?
there seems to be more problems with zonalarm.
lodore

Hi again,

Thanks much for sharing with me your experiences and your recommendations. It is always possible to ditch ZA, but to me it would seem someone strange if I ditch the product that is working for the product that keeps crashing and the company that does not provide any support. Do you see my point? It would just feel weird to me.

Cya and thanks for the help.

Rich

[Firecat]

Maybe you can just use ZA's own AV (which is based on KAV anyway) instead of KAV? It is possible that may solve a few problems.

Regarding BitDefender, yes it is still pretty good. Yet I feel that AVG Anti-Malware offers about the same protection (in terms of signature detection, not heuristics) with more value for money than BitDefender.

[richrf]

Originally Posted by Firecat

Maybe you can just use ZA's own AV (which is based on KAV anyway) instead of KAV? It is possible that may solve a few problems.

Regarding BitDefender, yes it is still pretty good. Yet I feel that AVG Anti-Malware offers about the same protection (in terms of signature detection, not heuristics) with more value for money than BitDefender.

Hi Firecat,

Thanks for the info and recommendations. I will consider it. Does anyone know how good the ZA AV engine is? Is it updated frequently and is kept current. I am no big fan of ZA's support either, so I don't necessarily want to go totally embed with them. It's been a while since I have had to investigate AVs. Is there a new kid on the block that is bigger, and badder than KAV. MCafee, or Eset? Thanks for the help guys.

Rich

[Firecat]

Originally Posted by richrf

Hi Firecat,

Thanks for the info and recommendations. I will consider it. Does anyone know how good the ZA AV engine is? Is it updated frequently and is kept current. I am no big fan of ZA's support either, so I don't necessarily want to go totally embed with them. It's been a while since I have had to investigate AVs. Is there a new kid on the block that is bigger, and badder than KAV. MCafee, or Eset? Thanks for the help guys.

Rich

The best way to determine a good AV is to try those for yourself. As for ZA's AV, it is based on KAV 6, however one thing of concern may be that it uses iSwift and iChecker from KAV with no option to disable those technologies. Also, ZoneAlarm's AV is not as flexible or configurable as Kaspersky's own AV is (or any other decent AV on the market), so that may be something of concern. ZoneAlarm's AV component also has a few bugs, but its hard to pinpoint for sure whether it will happen on your PC as well.

As for "bigger, badder" than KAV, it largely depends on the point of view. If you are very happy with the protection KAV offers then maybe you should try F-Secure because IMO it is every bit as good as KAV (and then some) in all respects (it uses the same KAV engine anyway). However, do consider AVG Anti-Malware as well, which has pretty good detection rates right now, and quite decent support (much better than ZoneAlarm IMO).

[richrf]

Hi again,

Thanks for the additional info. I will followup on your recommendations.

Best,
Rich

[Rilla927]

@richrf

Have you tried wiping the disk (Dban its free) and reinstalling a fresh OS and programs? Don't know how old your windows install is, just a thought.

I would ditch ZA before I would ditch Kaspersky. Last year I ran Kav 6 with ZA and there was always something between the two, finally I got rid of ZA and all the abnormals went away. I have come to a conclusion that ZA will never perfect the code where it should be. Thats odd to hear about the Kaspersky support.

If you remove Kaspersky don't forget the removal tool.

I'm running Online Armor FW and Kav in XP and Kiss 7 in Vista Ultimate and it runs flawlessly. Online Armor is a great FW and very easy to use, its not Vista compatible yet.

http://www.tallemu.com/

[fce]

drop ZA and keep KAV.

don't go with KIS if you're using Vista, because it doesnt pass some "simple" leak test. If you are using XP just settle with KIS.

Keep KAV and wait for Comodo Firewall Pro Ver3. For now use window firewall until CFP beta released.

0.02cents.

[fax]

Originally Posted by Firecat

however one thing of concern may be that it uses iSwift and iChecker from KAV with no option to disable those technologies.

Interesting... have you tested it yourself? As far as I know, iSwift and iChecker are not at all implemented in ZA AV. KAV SDK iStreams is a separate module.

If what you say its true, all KAV OEM SDK should show the same problem (e.g. OnlineArmor+AV, etc...)

And going back to the original question: you can try ZA AV or ZASS that uses the KAV 6 engine. Also note that ZA KAV main kernel driver have been updated to version 7 (klif.sys)

Cheers,
Fax

[Firecat]

Originally Posted by fax

Interesting... have you tested it yourself? As far as I know, iSwift and iChecker are not at all implemented in ZA AV. KAV SDK iStreams is a separate module.

If what you say its true, all KAV OEM SDK should show the same problem (e.g. OnlineArmor+AV, etc...)

And going back to the original question: you can try ZA AV or ZASS that uses the KAV 6 engine. Also note that ZA KAV main kernel driver have been updated to version 7 (klif.sys)

Cheers,
Fax

Apparently, some investigation into the matter of chkdsk issues with KAV caused some people to find out that "several" KAV clones are in fact using iSwift and iChecker. BlueZanetti confirmed that ZoneAlarm's AV indeed uses iSwift:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showt...le#post1042903

And yes, you could be right, several KAV clones are probably affected, but this has yet to be verified.

[fax]

Originally Posted by Firecat

Apparently, some investigation into the matter of chkdsk issues with KAV caused some people to find out that "several" KAV clones are in fact using iSwift and iChecker. BlueZanetti confirmed that ZoneAlarm's AV indeed uses iSwift:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showt...le#post1042903

And yes, you could be right, several KAV clones are probably affected, but this has yet to be verified.

Thanks! Interesting... indeed I assume at this point all clones will have this problem...

Cheers,
Fax

[richrf]

Originally Posted by Rilla927

@richrf

Have you tried wiping the disk (Dban its free) and reinstalling a fresh OS and programs? Don't know how old your windows install is, just a thought.

I would ditch ZA before I would ditch Kaspersky. Last year I ran Kav 6 with ZA and there was always something between the two, finally I got rid of ZA and all the abnormals went away. I have come to a conclusion that ZA will never perfect the code where it should be. Thats odd to hear about the Kaspersky support.

If you remove Kaspersky don't forget the removal tool.

I'm running Online Armor FW and Kav in XP and Kiss 7 in Vista Ultimate and it runs flawlessly. Online Armor is a great FW and very easy to use, its not Vista compatible yet.

http://www.tallemu.com/

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback and info. Wiping my disk clean would probably be the absolutely last thing I do, given the fact that we know that KAV is the offending program and that KAV can be replaced. BTW, it had one of those lovely little crashes this morning.

Has there been one of those, "Which is the Best AV" threads lately. I scanned and couldn't find one. I'm trying to catch up on the AV industry, since I have been away for a while, and see which firewall/AV combination is excellent and stable.

I am sure all KAV users here would understand the irony of the situation if I went ahead and purchased KIS given that it is KAV that is crashing and it is Kaspersky providing zero technical support or guidance. That would be pretty odd behavior on my part.

Thanks for the help guys.

Rich

[lodore]

hi richrf,
what build of kav are you using?
i had problems with big freezes with build 614 of kis6.0 and sometimes it reporting errors.
uninstalling kav6.0 rebooting and installing kav7.0 is an easy task and will take around 5mins.
have you tryed kav 7.0 yet?
lodore

[richrf]

Hi lodore,

Thanks for your help.

I am using KAV 6.0.2.621. The problems I am having are a rather recent occurrence - probably starting about six months ago. So it must have been some KAV update that started the problem

I was considering moving to 7 but I believe the product has been just released, and I fear that jumping into 7 may actually make matters worse. I was told that 6 was rock hard stable with ZA when I first moved from KAV 5 to 6 and, as you can see, that it turned out it wasn't. I am not sure I would like to pull the trigger on this one, unless there are lots of KAV 7/ZA 7 users out there. There doesn't seem to be. It seems like they have left for some other ground - which is where I would like to go. But if are using KAV 7/ZA 7 successfully, I would sure like to hear about it.

Thanks again for your help,
Rich