ShadowProtect v2.0 - Restoration.

[ErikAlbert]

ErikAlbert, well-known as Global Newbie at Wilders, wasn't satisfied with the poor results in thread "ShadowProtect vs. ATI".
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=175593
So I did my own tests without disasters to know how difficult a restoration was on a zero-ed harddisk, which had multiple partitions.

Re-partitioning of Disk#0
First I had to re-partition my first harddisk to create the required situation.
Note for newbies : disks and partitions aren't the same, you can have more than one partition on one disk, but you can't have more than one disk on one partition. Disk#0 has usually one partition, called C: and each partition has also a NAME and that name is very important in Image Backup, because the partition letter can be wrong and if the name is choosen well, you will recognize it during backup/restore.


I had to go from :
Disk#0 - System Partition [C:] = 69.24gb
To :
Disk#0 - System Partition [C:] = 24.41gb
Disk#0 - Data Partition [D:] = 24.42gb
Disk#0 - Movie Partition [E:] = 20.41gb
TOTAL = 69.24gb

Now I was ready for the first backup.
Note for newbies : you have to backup first, before you can do a restoration.

Backup of Disk#0
I couldn't find a way to backup the complete Disk#0 in one hit.
I had to backup each partition separately, but the backup-wizard makes it easy and you can give your own name to each image to recognize it faster on your external harddisk.
All backups are queued an executed one by one automatically.

Zero Disk#0
Then I had to zero Disk#0 to create the special situation, which is normally not required.
So ZeroCD in drive, reboot, select Disk#0, start full zero command and wait 20 minuts.
Note for newbies : you don't have to zero your harddisk before restoration, but a killdisk virus has the same effect.

Restoration of zero-ed Disk#0
Finally I got where I wanted to be. Sigh.
So ZeroCD out drive, SPrecoverCD in drive, reboot and wait until the SP-Main-Menu appears. The load-time of this CD is terrible and load-screens are confusing and ugly.

I couldn't find a way to restore all 3 images in one hit.
I had to restore each partition separately.

Because all partitions are gone due to zeroing Disk#0, it is displayed as one big unallocated space without any partition letter.
You can't select the disk as destination disk, so I right-clicked on the line and then I got 5 options :

1. Create exact primary partition at the beginning of free space.
2. Create exact primary partition at the end of free space.
3. Create primary primary partition using all unallocated space.
4. Enter a size of a new primary partition and create it.
5. Create extended partition.

The 2nd option was absurd, the 3th option was not usefull, the 4th option requires the memory of an elephant, the 5th option wasn't possible, because I only work with primary partitions. So it had to be the first one.
So this requires some brainstorming, if you are not familiar with partitioning.

SP remembers the size of the partition and that makes it alot easier and the restoration procedure looks like this :
1. You select the image-file
2. You right-click on the destination disk.
3. You choose the option #1.
4. You select the unknown partition as destination partition
5. You start the restore.
And you have to do this for each partition that needs to be restored. First C, then D, then E.

Of course this is a little more complicated, than selecting the whole harddisk, like with ATI.

Conclusion
1. The backup procedure is reliable, FAST and userfriendly.
2. The restoration is per PARTITION, not per harddisk and that makes it cumbersome.
3. Everything regarding loading the SPrecoverCD is a disaster and needs to be improved.

[pvsurfer]

Erik,

That was interesting. After learning more about SP and especially the all-important restore phase, I don't see where it offers any advantages over ATI; or am I missing something?

[Huupi]

Originally Posted by pvsurfer

Erik,

That was interesting. After learning more about SP and especially the all-important restore phase, I don't see where it offers any advantages over ATI; or am I missing something?

if ATI works for you,there is no need switch i think,but what SP sets apart is his more universal compatibility to the many many different configurations out there.

[Peter2150]

Okay, Erik's results were exactly as expected. What got me into trouble was the way I "zero'd" the disk. I suspect if I had used Disk Directors delete partition function it would have been okay. I tried zeroing out the table with the editor in Disk Director. That was a huge mistake.

Also unlike Erik, I can't use the Western Digital zero utility, as it doesn't see my nvidia raid disks, and has no way to load the drivers.

As to the loading of Winpe, that is a microsoft thing, and actually doesn't really take longer than Bartpe which behaves much the same, only has a colorful screen. The new version of SP uses VistaPe which loads in half the time. Unfortunately I can't use it, as MS managed to pick the wrong set of nvidia drivers to put in it. They aren't reliable for me. THis is beyond Storagecrafts control.

As to changing from ATI to SP. IF everything you want to do with ATI works and you trust it 100% then there is absolutely no reason to change. I have used it myself, and honestly doing simple image and restores's it works fine. But it's the little nigglety thing that bother me. Obviously they didn't test out the disk editor very well, or warn of the consequences of saving it like I did. I also don't like where they went with version 10. THis is me.

Erik, I also agree with you that the whole disk restore us clumsy. I am planning on bugging the powers that be about that.

Pete

Originally Posted by pvsurfer

Erik,

That was interesting. After learning more about SP and especially the all-important restore phase, I don't see where it offers any advantages over ATI; or am I missing something?

PARAGON doesn't make for such apprehensions from my testings with it, so time to put on some brakes with SP for the time being untill we here from it's representative on this at least.

[ErikAlbert]

Originally Posted by pvsurfer

Erik,

That was interesting. After learning more about SP and especially the all-important restore phase, I don't see where it offers any advantages over ATI; or am I missing something?

I really hesitate to pay $70 for ShadowProtect, besides the speed and reliability, SP is a kind of step back. What you win here and there, you might lose somewhere else, certainly when you have more than one partition.

[ErikAlbert]

Originally Posted by Peter2150

Okay, Erik's results were exactly as expected. What got me into trouble was the way I "zero'd" the disk. I suspect if I had used Disk Directors delete partition function it would have been okay. I tried zeroing out the table with the editor in Disk Director. That was a huge mistake.

Also unlike Erik, I can't use the Western Digital zero utility, as it doesn't see my nvidia raid disks, and has no way to load the drivers.

As to the loading of Winpe, that is a microsoft thing, and actually doesn't really take longer than Bartpe which behaves much the same, only has a colorful screen. The new version of SP uses VistaPe which loads in half the time. Unfortunately I can't use it, as MS managed to pick the wrong set of nvidia drivers to put in it. They aren't reliable for me. THis is beyond Storagecrafts control.

As to changing from ATI to SP. IF everything you want to do with ATI works and you trust it 100% then there is absolutely no reason to change. I have used it myself, and honestly doing simple image and restores's it works fine. But it's the little nigglety thing that bother me. Obviously they didn't test out the disk editor very well, or warn of the consequences of saving it like I did. I also don't like where they went with version 10. THis is me.

Erik, I also agree with you that the whole disk restore us clumsy. I am planning on bugging the powers that be about that.

Pete

Peter, I'm 100% sure, if you had all my tools, your test would have been without disasters. I just had better tools than you.

[Jo Ann]

While ATI has always done the job for me without any (serious) 'glitches', like many others here I too keep looking for the 'holy grail' of backup programs and as I never tried SP, it had intrigued me. But now, it seems that it too has its drawbacks.

So after pvsurfer experienced a major problem wih Paragon's Boot CD while testing it yesterday, and reading these informative SP posts (thanks to Erik and Peter), I am even more content with my ATI.

[ErikAlbert]

Originally Posted by EASTER.2010

PARAGON doesn't make for such apprehensions from my testings with it, so time to put on some brakes with SP for the time being untill we here from it's representative on this at least.

Well, since my enthousiasm for SP isn't that big anymore, I might try Paragon.

[pvsurfer]

Originally Posted by ErikAlbert

Well, since my enthousiasm for SP isn't that big anymore, I might try Paragon.

Erik, if you do try Paragon, here's a tip that may save you from possibly wasting your time... Before even attempting to create any images, make sure Paragon's Boot CD can see all of your drives, especially external drives! - I wish I had done that before using Paragon's Windows GUI to backup my test system yesterday!

[ErikAlbert]

Originally Posted by pvsurfer

Erik, if you do try Paragon, here's a tip that may save you from possibly wasting your time... Before even attempting to create any images, make sure Paragon's Boot CD can see all of your drives, especially external drives! - I wish I had done that before using Paragon's Windows GUI to backup my test system yesterday!

Thanks for the tip man. Peter's disaster warned me too. We all learn from our misery.

[flinchlock]

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showp...&postcount=118

Originally Posted by pvsurfer

Since PHDM's Boot CD could not see my USB drive...

Originally Posted by ErikAlbert.

I might try Paragon.

The problem was not "Paragon", there is no such thing as "Paragon".

Paragon has many products that look like they do the same, and yes, it is very confusing!

The problem is with Paragon Disk Manger, not Paragon Drive Backup.

Hard Disk Manager 8.5 => NO YES USB support. UPDATE: See Paragon: clarification about USB support

Drive Backup 8.51 => YES USB support.

Supports for USB and Fireware drives as well as in-built CD/DVD burner let you keep backup images on remote storage media.
Save backup image to remote USB or Fireware device

Mike

[lodore]

Originally Posted by flinchlock

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showp...&postcount=118


The problem was not "Paragon", there is no such thing as "Paragon".

Paragon has many products that look like they do the same, and yes, it is very confusing!

The problem is with Paragon Disk Manger, not Paragon Drive Backup.

Hard Disk Manager 8.5 => NO USB support.

Drive Backup 8.51 => YES USB support.
Mike

I store my images on an external usb drive no problems.
i use HDM 8.5
in a few days i will get my custom advanced winpe recovery cd from paragon.
i will update everyone once i have used it.
lodore

[lodore]

Originally Posted by flinchlock

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showp...&postcount=118


The problem was not "Paragon", there is no such thing as "Paragon".

Paragon has many products that look like they do the same, and yes, it is very confusing!

The problem is with Paragon Disk Manger, not Paragon Drive Backup.

Hard Disk Manager 8.5 => NO USB support.

Drive Backup 8.51 => YES USB support.
Mike

I store my images on an external usb drive no problems.
i use HDM 8.5
in a few days i will get my custom advanced winpe recovery cd from paragon.
i will update everyone once i have used it.
if the linux based cd doesnt see your external drives contact paragon support.
tell them its not seen by the linux based cd.
if you have a windows cd go ahead and ask for the bartpe plugin.
and build your own recovery cd.
if not ask for them to make you a winpe cd.
dont let the linux based recovery cd put you off paragon's great products.
i like the fact paragon have three types of recovery cd.
bartpe,winpe and linux based.
lodore

[flinchlock]

Originally Posted by lodore

I store my images on an external usb drive no problems.
i use HDM 8.5

But what about...

Originally Posted by pvsurfer

Since PHDM's Boot CD could not see my USB drive...

Mike

UPDATE: It just occurred to me, the "failed" product is called "Paragon Hard Disk Manager"... are USB drives "hard"?

[flinchlock]

Originally Posted by lodore

...dont let the linux based recovery cd put you off paragon's great products.
i like the fact paragon have three types of recovery cd.
bartpe,winpe and linux based.

Even though it is linux, about 99.9999% works just fine/easy since it is a GUI hiding the linux. Yes, for you geeks, you can get to the linux shell (Command Prompt in Windows).

I wonder if this linux based Paragon Restore CD would have allowed Pete to recover from his totally forked up partition table?

The other programs he tried use Microsoft's routines, and failed because it was totally messed up.

Mike

[lodore]

Originally Posted by flinchlock

Even though it is linux, about 99.9999% works just fine/easy since it is a GUI hiding the linux. Yes, for you geeks, you can get to the linux shell (Command Prompt in Windows).

I wonder if this linux based Paragon Restore CD would have allowed Pete to recover from his totally forked up partition table?

The other programs he tried use Microsoft's routines, and failed because it was totally messed up.

Mike

what i ment is dont let the not very good usb support from the linux based recovery cd put people off paragon.
the linux recovery cd gui is fine.
lodore

[Huupi]

in honesty i have to say that driving imaging app. to their limits is not that kind off exercise that most people do in trial time,yes in this way you expose the hidden flaws in this stuff, but who cares not everybody stumbles upon killdisk,and not everybody zerood their disk on intention or by accident, hey guys base your choice not on these extremes and investigate these app. in normal daile use,from the top three contenders,i'll give SP the edge cause lesser hardware problems !

[Huupi]

what i ment is dont let the not very good usb support from the linux based recovery cd put people off paragon.
the linux recovery cd gui is fine.
lodore


As far as i understand Acronis recovery is based on linux also, if you ever like to hear about hardware intergration in their linux environment,look over their forum !!!

[lodore]

Originally Posted by Huupi

what i ment is dont let the not very good usb support from the linux based recovery cd put people off paragon.
the linux recovery cd gui is fine.
lodore


As far as i understand Acronis recovery is based on linux also, if you ever like to hear about hardware intergration in their linux environment,look over their forum !!!

ye very true.
thats why i like the fact paragon have a bartpe plugin and also make winpe cd's
lodore

[pvsurfer]

Originally Posted by flinchlock

But what about...

UPDATE: It just occurred to me, the "failed" product is called "Paragon Hard Disk Manager"... are USB drives "hard"?

You can't be serious!

[Huupi]

Originally Posted by lodore

ye very true.
thats why i like the fact paragon have a bartpe plugin and also make winpe cd's
lodore

Hey Iodore thats great,to request and get custom files from Paragon,it is most likely the way other vendors has to take,at least to stay in competition,there's so many different config. out there,no vendor nowadays can come up with a one for all solution.

[ErikAlbert]

If USB 2.0 External Harddisks are a problem for Paragon softwares, I want to know this in advance. Very annoying when you can't backup. I will see it for myself, once I trial it. Paragon is just a name for me, like Acronis, StorageCraft, Terabyte, ... and will be treated by me in the same way as ShadowProtect.

[Peter2150]

Well I for one am mighty grateful for the experience of my disaster. While not fun, it made me realize that even with FDISR and a good imaging program we aren't quite as invincible as we might think.

I also realize we should evaluate some of the tools we assume will work, like the drive manufacturers utlities. They didn't do me any good because of the drivere problem.

Finally I gained new respect for good old BootitNG. That got me to the nuts and bolts part and was my savior.

We at Wilders are known for pushing software right to the edge of the cliff, but I prefer not to take another swan dive off.

[lodore]

Originally Posted by ErikAlbert

If USB 2.0 External Harddisks are a problem for Paragon softwares, I want to know this in advance. Very annoying when you can't backup. I will see it for myself, once I trial it. Paragon is just a name for me, like Acronis, StorageCraft, Terabyte, ... and will be treated by me in the same way as ShadowProtect.

paragon has no problem with usb drives.
paragon made me a winpe cd image with the nvidia nforce 3 drivers and the slicon image raid driver.
i burnt the image to disc.
it works perfectly.
it sees my internal sata drive
and it sees my usb external maxtor III one touch drive.
so try paragon if you want to.
if the linux based cd doesnt see your usb drive then contact paragon like i did explain it cant see your drive and they will make you a winpe cd.
lodore