Whoo Hooo!!! Vista Rocks!!!!

[Ice_Czar]

Originally Posted by DVD+R

Ive not put Windows Vista Firewall through its paces yet, but it seems reliable enough to do the job it was intended for,

That $200 Windows XP service pack called Vista (Cnet) Robert Vamosi Senior editor

And home users will get not one but two firewall consoles within Windows Vista (why Microsoft couldn't reconcile them, I don't know), but you still won't get full outbound protection within the Microsoft Firewall without some serious configuration. The new Windows Firewall with Advanced Security on Local Computer console provides different profiles for Domain Policy (corporate networks), Private Profile (home networks), and Public Profile (Wi-Fi hot spots), but the language offered is all legalese at best: "Inbound connections that do not match a rule are blocked" and "Outbound connections that do not match a rule are allowed." Basically, all inbound data from the Internet is allowed (as it should be) except where a rule exists; outbound data from your computer is also allowed (as it should not be) "except where excepted"--one of my all-time favorite Microsoft-issued statements. The difference here is that unless you create specific rules to block outbound data--say, from spyware or rogue apps--you won't have true two-way firewall protection with the Microsoft Firewall; there are no outbound rules provided by default. The reality is that most people will never tweak these settings and therefore won't be as well protected as they would be with the free edition of ZoneAlarm, a true two-way firewall.

study up then dump it

its worth readying the rest of the article

you also didnt mention if its 64bit
but thought this might be of interest it has been "revitalized" of late


By Passing PatchGuard on Windows x64

From the conclusion

Unfortunately, Microsoft is at a disadvantage with PatchGuard, and it's one that they are perfectly aware of. This disadvantage stems from the fact that PatchGuard is designed to run from the same protection domain as the code that it is designed to protect from. In more concise terms, PatchGuard runs just like any third-party driver, and it runs with the same set of privileges. Due to this fact, it is impossible to guarantee that a third-party driver won't be able to do something that will prevent PatchGuard from being able to do its job since there is no way for PatchGuard to completely protect itself. Since this problem was known going into the implementation of PatchGuard, Microsoft chose to use the only weapons readily available to them: obfuscation and misdirection. While most consider security through obscurity to be no security at all in the face of a sufficiently motivated engineer, it does indeed raise the bar enough that most programmers and third-party entities would not have the interest in finding a way to bypass it and instead would be more motivated to find a condoned method of accomplishing their goals.

The question remains, though. Is PatchGuard really the right approach? If one assumes that Microsoft will aggressively ensure that PatchGuard breaks malicious code and software vendors who attempt to bypass it by releasing updates in the future that intentionally break the bypass approaches, which is what has been indicated so far, then it stands to reason that Microsoft could be heading down a path that leads to the kernel actually being more unstable due to more extreme measures being required.

with several BILLION dollars on the line malware syndicates are rather well motivated. This move is again a licensing restriction, breaking into the kernel isnt that difficult, getting a license for an ap to do it is.

Security vendor circumvents Windows Vista's Patchguard
Researcher says PatchGuard changes helped Microsoft
Its all about the money

Patchguard of course breaks all current HIPS, this is a move to tie all security firms to Microsoft and lockout independents, it also paves the way for them to enter the market (more than they have). This trend and many of the "features" and "enhancements" taken in the context of the marketing, amounts to a bait and switch for the average user who benefits not a whit long term, but has to upgrade their little hearts out to consume more resources for very little added utility value, power users get more value, enterprise quite a lot.

we also get


Green Party asks: who has the key to your Vista PC?

Microsoft's latest operating system, due for release tomorrow, is defective by design, putting Microsoft and the corporate media in control of your computer.

"Vista requires more expensive and energy-hungry hardware, passing the cost on to consumers and the environment. This will also further exclude the poor from the latest technology, and impose burdensome costs on small and medium businesses who will be forced to enter another expensive upgrade cycle."

"There will be thousands of tonnes of dumped monitors, video cards and whole computers that are perfectly capable of running Vista - except for the fact they lack the paranoid lock down mechanisms Vista forces you to use. That's an offensive cost to the environment.

"Future archaeologists will be able to identify a 'Vista Upgrade Layer' when they go through our landfill sites."

and of course (the ongoing and updated)
A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection

Will the Windows Vista content protection board robustness recommendations increase the cost of graphics cards and reduce the number of build options?

While it's certainly tempting to quote the Slashdot response “Whose ass was this assertion pulled out of?”, I'll provide a bit more context. This comment, that the overhead of Vista's content protection will lead to cheaper hardware, comes from a Microsoft product manager resposible for the content protection. An ATI product manager responsible for producing the actual hardware says:

“These costs are passed on to the consumer”

“This cost is passed on to all consumers”

“This cost is passed on to purchasers of multimedia PC's”

“Costs are passed on to consumers”

“Costs are passed on to consumers, especially early adopters”

I'll let you decide who to believe.

another example of the strong arm trend in licensing revenue under the guise of security


article
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=12314

commentary of article
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html

Note K: Video and audio playback aren't the only areas in which Vista's inner control freak comes to the fore. A Gamasutra article Vista Casts A Pall On PC Gaming looks at Vista's new Game Explorer “feature”, which subjects all games to parental controls. Any games vendor who can't afford to obtain an extremely expensive ESRB rating has their software treated as “Not Rated”, the equivalent of the MPAA's X-rating for films which was originally intended to mean “Not Rated” (the multiple Oscar-winning Midnight Cowboy is an example of an early X-rated film) but has since become synonymous with hardcore porn (Midnight Cowboy was later re-rated R). Obviously any parent would block Not-Rated content, which means that anyone who can't afford to pay the ESRB (in other words any small, independent game producers, including the ones most likely to produce free and low-cost family-rated games) can't work with Vista's Game Explorer. This seems like yet another area of Vista in which the words “anticompetitive ” and “class-action” will feature prominently in the future.

havent even touched on the standards issue lets see...

Microsoft Vista violates EU's former ruling, rival IT firms allege

Microsoft Corp. faces yet another legal challenge for its technology. On the eve of the new Vista OS's consumer release, a group of IT companies, including IBM, Nokia, Sun Microsystems, Adobe, Oracle, and Red Hat, alleges Vista would perpetuate business practices found illegal by the European Union (EU) three years ago.

At the heart of the latest Vista complaint, the rival companies alleged Microsoft's new XAML markup language was "positioned to replace HTML", the current industry standard for publishing documents online. XAML would be dependent on Windows, and discriminatory against systems such as Linux, as reported by Reuters.

yep got to watch those commie bastard multinational corporations like Nokia and IBM
I spot a trend of greed here.

quite a long post only indirectly mentioning the worse offense
DRM

think my sig is rather catchy

[DVD+R]

Here you go aigle my specs as requested

PS-0264 Enhanced Intel 460w EPS Power Suply
GA-8i925X-G925 Chipset Audio/Lan/Serial ATA To Suit LGA775
BX80547PG3600E P4 3.62Ghz Prescott LGA775
KVR533 DZNYKZ 4x1Gb DDR533 DDR2 Kingston
ATI-Redeon G-Cube X800XT 256MB PCI-Express VID Card
HDD-1614C SAMSUNG SATA 7200RPM
PIO-DVR 108BKSW Pioneer 108SW 16x DVD Burner-Dual Layer
Liteon CDR 52x32x52
Windows Vista Ultimate
Creative Audigy 2 ZS PCI Sound Card
Z-680THZ Logitech 5.1 Surround Sound Speakers
Samsung Sync Master 193P 19" LCD monitor

[Osaban]

I also appreciate MS hardwork, and Bill Gates as a great American.
But 750 $ is too expensive, and I wonder how much more that will levy prices of new computers coming with Vista.

[Genady Prishnikov]

Originally Posted by Osaban

I also appreciate MS hardwork, and Bill Gates as a great American.
But 750 $ is too expensive, and I wonder how much more that will levy prices of new computers coming with Vista.

The link in IceCzar's post about VISTA being a Service Pack for XP is shocking. I actually had started a thread about just that column. The article from CNet is a MUST-READ. Basically, it's saying that providing the best security at only the highest price Vista is just plain wrong. If they're serious about security, the most basic package should contain ALL security features, No-brainer.
Here's the thread where we are discussing that column.

[Longboard]

Free ramble on:

"Vista requires more expensive and energy-hungry hardware, passing the cost on to consumers and the environment. This will also further exclude the poor from the latest technology, and impose burdensome costs on small and medium businesses who will be forced to enter another expensive upgrade cycle."

"There will be thousands of tonnes of dumped monitors, video cards and whole computers that are perfectly capable of running Vista - except for the fact they lack the paranoid lock down mechanisms Vista forces you to use. That's an offensive cost to the environment.

"Future archaeologists will be able to identify a 'Vista Upgrade Layer' when they go through our landfill sites."

As much as anything in the current environment, and I mean environment, that alone is a devastating indictment.

The last para: dont know whether to laugh or cry.

It's gone far beyond " a better OS" and into the realm of control.
Control of what you can see, what you can do, who controls the flow of information: who owns your household.
What you can watch and how much you will have no choice but to pay.
No carrot I can see. Couple of flashy animations
Just The big stick.

There has never been any consumer product with the overwhelming power of MS. While I applaud the massive effort that goes into creating the OS...

There is no agency on the planet that can control MS

Why are all the HW and SW producers behind ?? MS made it so.
Why will we all have to pay $$$$ to get upgrades to even MS softs??

All you guys with 512mb 40G and PII: forget it.
Get ready to cough up $000's to make a jump ahead to be maybe futureproofed. ??

The much vaunted Patch Guard afaics will be shown to be another smoke and mirrors mirage, but in the meantime we will all struggle on because we have no choice really. The code is being dismembered as we speak. There will be no change to the basics.

All the recent posturing by MS showing concern about users issues: all just play acting to obscure what a nightmare Vista is/will become.

With all the now exposed built in "protections" "tweaks" "graphics issues' "HW needs" "overheads" etc , all for our benefits (!) how can this be a good thing.

Could go on but just the disjointed ramblings of a know nothing spot in the MS tarpits.

[ashishtx]

No doubt windows vista has improved a lot but the hardware requirements can empty the pocket besides the price of vista itself. It is better to buy a pc that has vista installed or a PC with upto date hardware to accomdate vista.

This is how i see vista for now
UAC(user account control)- XP with HIPS.
Bit locker drive encryption- Most business line PC have this feature in one form or another. (Correct me if i am wrong)
Aero 3D- This is the matter of personal choice. Eventually we need a system that does what we need not just look pretty.
Search, Gadget bar and photo- We have enough software available in the market that does the same thing

Isn't the price of vista ultimate is US $400 not $750.

[Pedro]

The others have replied, you just have to pay attention:

A number of unique consolidations are happening in the industry just as Microsoft is trying to get a buzz going about Vista. The timing couldn't be better, but there are bound to be numerous shake-outs and a few collapses. And Microsoft looks vulnerable, too.

The most important event is the formation of the Linux Foundation. This is an attempt by the major players, including HP, IBM, and Intel, to create a standard Linux and discourage the continued trend toward various distros that are subtly incompatible with each other and certain applications.

This may also end the faddish nature of new releases from various vendors. One minute the "best" Linux is Mandrake. Then it's SUSE. Then it's Ubuntu. End users have never adopted Linux for the desktop largely because of this trend. It's possible that Linux could make a move to appear on the desktop if this newest initiative is successful.

My thread that noone replied...

The article...
by John C. Dvorak

Pay attention to these movements

[Pedro]

Follow the link to the video on page 2. "Play Video".
Interesting discussion.

[aigle]

Originally Posted by DVD+R

Here you go aigle my specs as requested

PS-0264 Enhanced Intel 460w EPS Power Suply
GA-8i925X-G925 Chipset Audio/Lan/Serial ATA To Suit LGA775
BX80547PG3600E P4 3.62Ghz Prescott LGA775
KVR533 DZNYKZ 4x1Gb DDR533 DDR2 Kingston
ATI-Redeon G-Cube X800XT 256MB PCI-Express VID Card
HDD-1614C SAMSUNG SATA 7200RPM
PIO-DVR 108BKSW Pioneer 108SW 16x DVD Burner-Dual Layer
Liteon CDR 52x32x52
Windows Vista Ultimate
Creative Audigy 2 ZS PCI Sound Card
Z-680THZ Logitech 5.1 Surround Sound Speakers
Samsung Sync Master 193P 19" LCD monitor

Thanks.

[DVD+R]

Isn't the price of vista ultimate is US $400 not $750

It Might be $400 in the US but in Australia its $745

[aigle]

Can anybody tell how much space in takes on HD( Home premium)?

[TOMxEU]

I guess, about 5 GB. Vista Starter takes almost 4 GB & Ultimate 6 GB (just Windows Folder).

[aigle]

So not too much.

[chaos16]

I am thinking that when Windows XP was released ppl used to say the same as now for Windows Vista that it was not as good etc..

Do u think once sp1 is out for Vista it will become much more stable and better etc...

As before XP used to get really bashed and now that there is a new operating system well it doesn't get as bashed

[strangequark]

Originally Posted by chaos16

I am thinking that when Windows XP was released ppl used to say the same as now for Windows Vista that it was not as good etc..

Do u think once sp1 is out for Vista it will become much more stable and better etc...

As before XP used to get really bashed and now that there is a new operating system well it doesn't get as bashed

yep your right, and now as then you can almost bet your house that it's getting bashed by people who have had nothing to do with it except to read what "they" say about it.

[Peter2150]

Well for me the thread title would be Whoo Hooo!! Vista Sucks!!!

I want an Operating System to operate the system and run what I want to run. Period. I did an upgrade install(why have it if it's a bad idea) to just evaluate it, since I haven't tried it since RC 1. Frankly I find it stupid after spending almost 10 minutes checking my system for compatibility, and making me uninstall Nero Rom(which I did). Okay so after 2 hours upgrading I am up an running, and confront with the wonderful news that the only software on my system Vista recognizes is Microsoft Office. Duh. To run the rest I will have to change it from not permitted to permitted. This is just totally stupid.

It took me about a fourth of the time the time it would have taken to give everything permission to restore the XP Pro image.

As I said I want the operating system to operate the system. I had no trouble or hesitation to switch to XP. But this is stupidity in my opinion.

[tobacco]

Originally Posted by Peter2150

As I said I want the operating system to operate the system. I had no trouble or hesitation to switch to XP. But this is stupidity in my opinion.

Couldn't agree more. By the time XP is no longer supported, i and many others here i'm sure, will be using other OS's.

[midway40]

I have only been using Vista for four hours after I installed it last night at home. So far I am impressed with it. To me it runs about the same speed as XP. It has come a looooong way from Beta 1 which was my last experience with Vista.

Just some minor annoyances mainly with the Creative drivers and (as stated above) HP hasn't any yet but can be worked around using Windows programs.

[Genady Prishnikov]

Originally Posted by strangequark

yep your right, and now as then you can almost bet your house that it's getting bashed by people who have had nothing to do with it except to read what "they" say about it.

Darn right I'll listen to what "they" say about it! I certainly am not going to run out and buy something blindly. Listen to Peter above and what he's gone through. I'm going to listen to Peter and others - yes I will. Sometimes, "they" know what they're talking about!

[strangequark]

Originally Posted by Genady Prishnikov

Darn right I'll listen to what "they" say about it! I certainly am not going to run out and buy something blindly. Listen to Peter above and what he's gone through. I'm going to listen to Peter and others - yes I will. Sometimes, "they" know what they're talking about!

Thank you you make my point for me, RC1 was known to be broken and was replaced in a matter of days with version 5728 which got rid of just about all the problems and by the time RC2 came out it was running reasonably well for a beta , let me repeat that "BETA" version, anybody doing any testing would have known that. No burning software, Nero included, worked with vista at that stage, now the manufacturers have brought out new versions that do, well at least Nero and NTI both have I can't speak for the others. As for vista only recognizing Microsoft Office on Peter's computer I find hard to believe unless of coarse he was running some pretty dodgy programs. As for the remarks like "To run the rest I will have to change it from not permitted to permitted. This is just totally stupid." I seriously can't believe I'm reading this, those of us that have been running Processgaurd have been doing that for years and find it one of the best security measures on our computers to stop rogue programs running, I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
I'm sorry but "This is just totally stupid". & " But this is stupidity in my opinion" are technical terms that I'm not up with.
IMHO

[Pedro]

So at least share what Vista provides you that is so much better. I've read features, but i need users to say what they found that was so special.
What was worth all the money.

[DVD+R]

Did you know that ALL Versions of Vista are on One Disc, from Basic Upwards? you just need the appropriate Key to install whatever version you have, no need for buying more disks. I found this out when I tried a RTM version before buying my current one key lets you install any version, and you just install your legal key afterwards

[Peter2150]

Originally Posted by strangequark

Thank you you make my point for me, RC1 was known to be broken and was replaced in a matter of days with version 5728 which got rid of just about all the problems and by the time RC2 came out it was running reasonably well for a beta , let me repeat that "BETA" version, anybody doing any testing would have known that. No burning software, Nero included, worked with vista at that stage, now the manufacturers have brought out new versions that do, well at least Nero and NTI both have I can't speak for the others. As for vista only recognizing Microsoft Office on Peter's computer I find hard to believe unless of coarse he was running some pretty dodgy programs. As for the remarks like "To run the rest I will have to change it from not permitted to permitted. This is just totally stupid." I seriously can't believe I'm reading this, those of us that have been running Processgaurd have been doing that for years and find it one of the best security measures on our computers to stop rogue programs running, I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
I'm sorry but "This is just totally stupid". & " But this is stupidity in my opinion" are technical terms that I'm not up with.
IMHO

Dodgy programs. Like Intuit's Quickbooks, and all of the Scansoft/Nuance programs. These are well known business apps. Also yes I ran ProcessGuard, and now run SSM and OA. OA uses a whitelist, and both ProcessGuard and SSM are programs I, let me repeat I choose to use. Also they give me the option of clicking my way thru, or using a learning mode on a system I know to be clean. Again it is my choice. But with the new Vista, I had no choice.

Again I will say it, I want the operating system to operate not make choices for me. Don't get me wrong, I've used Microsoft OS's since DOS 3.1, and I use and like Microsoft Office 2003. But I want their tools to help me work the way I want to. What I don't want is them making the decisions on what I can or can't do, and how I do it.

Pete

[Longboard]

@strangequark

Why not detail why you are thinking Vista is a good thing
What do you like about it?
What new features will serve us all?
What are the advantages about installing?

What systems config have you tested it on?

What were the problems if any?

Regards

[iceni60]

Originally Posted by DVD+R

Did you know that ALL Versions of Vista are on One Disc, from Basic Upwards? you just need the appropriate Key to install whatever version you have, no need for buying more disks. I found this out when I tried a RTM version before buying my current one key lets you install any version, and you just install your legal key afterwards

i heard that. if you only have a licence for the basic version you can run the most expensive one for a month or so.

i think in about a year the 64-bit version might be quite good if it all works out how it's suppose to. i really like linux though so i don't think i'll use it. although i read you can easily charge £60 an hour (or even alot more ) cleaning malware and securing PCs so i might learn how to read HT logs and start fixing PCs if i do that i'll get vista to learn how it works.