Obsession?

[duke1959]

Just saw a post by KDNeese in the Cyberhawk or DSA thread, and he mentioned being obsessed. This hit home for me as here I am once again this morning looking for a reason to perhaps add something to my security setup. I use Firefox with NoScript, and have AVG Anti-Malware and ZA Free as my Firewall, plus I am behind a Linksys Wireless Router with a SPI Firewall on top of that yet. What else as a safe surfer, do I really need? I tried almost all the free AV's and AS apps, at least four other Firewalls, and SSM Free all at different points in the last year as protection, but never with a hint of anything happening thatI needed protection from. Don't get me wrong I believe there is always a possibility of being compromised in some way, and trying out the different programs has been fun. However, I have had a few scares with small problems created by using some of these programs, and still didn't stop. This is where the obsession part comes in, which is perhaps looking for the perfect setup. The one that covers everything with no glitches or PC slowdowns and is fun to use. So while adding Cyberhawk to what I already have, or SSM Free may truly be good extra protection for me. The question I now have, is why do I feel I need to add either one if I have never found anything with any of the On Demand Scanners that I have also used over time? The answer. Maybe I'm obsessed with using these products. Truthfully though, I feel there are many obsessions that are far worse than doing this, and although I am slowly weaning myself off of from doing this, it has been quite fun. Now if I can just stay out of the Forum, I might stand a chance. LOL.

[bigc73542]

I caught myself falling into the security app trap also. At one time I was running fourteen security apps, but I wasn't getting infected either. Now I am running just five and I plan to drop one of them soon. The moral of the story is that even when I was running all of the apps and useing up all of the resources that they were gobbling up I was really no more protected than I am now with just four or five. Simply because I am still not getting infected with any kind of malware. and have all that extra resources to play a game or run some other type of app. On a security forum it is easy to loose perspective and fall into the paranoid security app trap. It was a little fun playing with all of the apps, but it really was such a waste of time and resources.

[QBgreen]

Obsession? No, you're being diligent! Hey, when I rotate my armada of security apps monthly (OK, sometimes weekly), am I be obsessive? My wife thinks so, but what does she know? She knows about shoes, that's for sure. Now there's an obsession!

I've found and slapped down the occasional weak trojan and/or worm trying to wend its way into my system, but nothing serious has infected my machines since bulletin board days. I too, like many others posting here are striving for the perfect blend of performance and protection. Is it achievable? Possibly, but that's certainly subjective. In the mean time, I say enjoy the hunt.

[Pedro]

It's those news that report Rootkits on the BIOS and SuperHackers that rape people.
Yes, i've done that obsession fase for a few days, but i re-realized that this is a computer.
5 applications at the most will probably the work for 100. And there are a lot applications, so there must be different approaches that work.
I think you're fine.
Not being a techguy, maybe i should put that in my sig. But i think the only "weakness" would be that nothing analyzes behaviour in your set-up. For those 0-day attacks that hackers next door will use on you to steal your photos!

For simplicity, i like a sandbox along a behavior blocker. Light things, pref. free, that lets me use the computer just fine.

But don't you already think like this? I guess you want to start a discussion to kill time Nothing wrong with that.

[twl845]

I think that we just get bored looking at the same desktop month after month and being we don't need any more apps, the only thing we can play with is security. So just to have a new app to play with we keep trying different AVs, anti-spywares, and firewalls with the hope that we'll find an even better one. This is good to a point because we can actually make our system pretty safe with the right stuff. But when does it become an obsession.

[tobacco]

Hello duke1959

Been there just like you and Bigc until i finally said enough of this and started ditching programs to go a different direction. Now i get my fun by searching out malware, running and watching them go about their business, sometimes they even connect to the net to download more crap. Then a few moments later, my system is completely back to normal. That's the fun part for me now, to see my security in action. I know you've said that your a very safe surfer, but try not being one for awhile. This should answer your question!.

[KikiBibi]

Last year, this forum got me obsessed with all these security. With every boot, I checked to see that there are 7/8 tray icons(not including non security icons).

After a while, this became silly because all i get is F/P. Now I just use 3 to 4 security apps(AV, Firewall, HIPS, AntiMalware).

[Notok]

I think that there are two main reasons this happens.

The first, which can sometimes be a prelude to the second, is because a person doesn't really know how the apps work, what they're protected against (and perhaps more importantly what they're not protected against), and the threats that are out there. I think a lot of the time this is because someone got burned (infected) when they thought that they were perfectly safe, so they pile on more apps only to return to that same feeling of safety that they had when they got burned, so they start over again thinking that one more will make them feel more safe - which never happens. To cure this really requires knowledge. Learning more about the system, about malware, and how to take control of your system without any software. That is, IMO, the only way to feel more safe than you felt when you relied on that very limited amount of software to protect you when you got burned (or perhaps when it really hit home that it wasn't enough). I really suspect that the underlying truth of this feeling is knowing that software alone is not enough, that to be truely secure one needs to have the knowledge to avoid and deal with anything that may happen.

The second is becoming a hobbiest. This is where you don't become paranoid, but you start having a whole lot of fun trying out new applications, seeing how they work, how they work with other applications, and so on. A lot of times this leads to becoming a beta tester. You start learning more about the application and how it works, so the logical next step is to start finding bugs and working with the developers to get them fixed. This is a lot of fun, but it's more about learning about your system and, more importantly, learning to troubleshoot and learning the technologies that exist. For me it was also a great creative outlet, learning to put that knowledge into creating ideas to help companies innovate.

I kinda started in the first catagory, but also the second. Security applications gave me a handle to enjoy learning about computers again. This really took off when I started beta testing, honing troubleshooting skills and learning to come up with new ideas while establishing rapports and networking at the same time. I can't say that I didn't have any of the first, but the second is definitely what kept me going. I had a lot of fun learning how all the programs work "under the hood", how they can conflict, and how to troubleshoot them. Of course this led to a lot of mornings spent fixing a broken machine before I could check my email before work. That kind of thing certainly isn't for everyone, and requires learning a lot more than just how to use apps.

[ccsito]

Software developers need obsessed people like you. Otherwise they won't be able to lure other users to their software. Malware and antimalware continue to evolve so there would be a natural tendency to look around to see what the best product was available at any given time. So you are at least giving them an audience to work with. LOL

I think all of this inner workings in security is pushing users towards being Microsoft Operating System experts which is a good thing. However, the vast majority of PC users don't want to know what the underpinnings of the PC involve. I am DOS person myself and considered Windows to be for "lazy" people when it first came available. I see how the GUI interface is more user friendly. But the behind the scene processing going on Windows was something that I never was fully comfortable with.

More familiarity and knowledge about your PC is always a good thing. But, personally, I have way too many things to catch up on and don't have the time to set aside to know every BHO, registry, CAB, BAT, EXE, INI, and every other possible MS Operating system tidbit.

[Hyperion]

Originally Posted by duke1959

...Maybe I'm obsessed with using these products...

YES!Reading this forum makes you paranoid.Happened to me too.And it still influences me when reading it.At the end,i think most people are just addicted into trying new security applications,which they really don't need.

I mean,it would be very interesting to make a poll in this forum,asking:

1)When was the last time you got infected
2)When was the last time you got saved from an infection by using HIPS,that your antivirus wouldn't handle


I think the replies will show that most people in here,have such habbits that don't allow them to get infected even if they had no AV and just have these applications for their fun.

That's why i don't care anymore what's the best AV or firewall,if it gets killed by the X exotic way etc,cause they are things i ll never see in real life.So i chose applications that run as light as possible and allow me to enjoy the speed of my PC instead of protecting me from a phantomatic super malware,that will kill my AV,fry my firewall,install a rootkit behind my back etc.If i didn't read Wilder's i wouldn' t use a HIPS at all and i d still be fine.But reading it,makes you paranoid,so i do use DSA right now.At least i only use 3 security apps (and my router) and the lightest i can get for free.

But yes,it's driving you nuts reading this forum.While in real life,i doubt if ANY of the regular posters in this forum,ever sees a malware make it to his hard disk.It's more a psychological conditioning.You NEED to feel "safe" when you read about these wild stories about rootkits that seem to ambush you in every corner.

[Pedro]

Hyperion: such poll is already up. Mrk is the author of that thread.

But yes, it's fun and addictive to try different security applications, and one can learn much by just using them.

[Hyperion]

Originally Posted by Someone

Hyperion: such poll is already up. Mrk is the author of that thread.

But yes, it's fun and addictive to try different security applications, and one can learn much by just using them.

LOL,i guess i should start visiting the poll subforum. I didn't even know it was there all this time... I just use to visit the firewall/av/antimalware forums.

[ejr]

Originally Posted by duke1959

Just saw a post by KDNeese in the Cyberhawk or DSA thread, and he mentioned being obsessed. This hit home for me as here I am once again this morning looking for a reason to perhaps add something to my security setup. I use Firefox with NoScript, and have AVG Anti-Malware and ZA Free as my Firewall, plus I am behind a Linksys Wireless Router with a SPI Firewall on top of that yet. What else as a safe surfer, do I really need? I tried almost all the free AV's and AS apps, at least four other Firewalls, and SSM Free all at different points in the last year as protection, but never with a hint of anything happening thatI needed protection from. Don't get me wrong I believe there is always a possibility of being compromised in some way, and trying out the different programs has been fun. However, I have had a few scares with small problems created by using some of these programs, and still didn't stop. This is where the obsession part comes in, which is perhaps looking for the perfect setup. The one that covers everything with no glitches or PC slowdowns and is fun to use. So while adding Cyberhawk to what I already have, or SSM Free may truly be good extra protection for me. The question I now have, is why do I feel I need to add either one if I have never found anything with any of the On Demand Scanners that I have also used over time? The answer. Maybe I'm obsessed with using these products. Truthfully though, I feel there are many obsessions that are far worse than doing this, and although I am slowly weaning myself off of from doing this, it has been quite fun. Now if I can just stay out of the Forum, I might stand a chance. LOL.

Spending too much time in forums like this can make you paranoid

Really, many people can get by with an all in one product like PC Cillin Internet Security or the like. That's what I have on my moms computer and she never gets infected.

But for my computer, I need a little more protection that that if for nothing more than peace of mind. I say sit behind your router with the following:

1. Top notch AV like NOD32 or KAV
2. Top Notch Firewall like Comodo or Outpost
3. Some sort of HIPS (SSM, Cyberhawk, Spyware Terminator) and maybe
4. Sanbox application like Sanboxie

I think 1-3 above is more than adequate and 1-4 above will keep you extemely well protected. Overkill for the safe surfer. But great protection at not too big of a resource cost.

[twl845]

ejr - Obviously your Mom stays in the safe web sites probably looking for recipes. I agree with the needed security for you and I completely. Actually Comodo is doing an upgrade next week to ver.4 which will have a HIPS option.

[ejr]

Originally Posted by twl845

ejr - Obviously your Mom stays in the safe web sites probably looking for recipes. I agree with the needed security for you and I completely. Actually Comodo is doing an upgrade next week to ver.4 which will have a HIPS option.

Yes...I am anxious for the next version of comodo. I heard that it will have optional HIPS and and optional sandbox. Combine that with NOD32 and that's a pretty secure set up.

[muf]

I like to rotate. Even though I don't get infected and the setup is working, I still like to change things around every few months. It would just be so much easier if someone brought out an application that detected everything and has skins for customisation. I'd be happy with that!

muf

[ccsito]

Originally Posted by muf

It would just be so much easier if someone brought out an application that detected everything and has skins for customisation. I'd be happy with that!

muf

If there were such an application, then the competition may as well pack up and close shop since the DETECT ALL program is available (not unless you clone the program and offer it with something different such as a foreign language).

[duke1959]

Wow! Thanks to everyone so far for your input. I must say that it isn't so much the fact that I'm not satisfied with using ZA Free and AVG Anti-Malware at the moment, as it is missing some of the other combinations I've used in the past. For example, Comodo and AOL AVS, or Comodo, Antivir PE, and Spyware Terminator. Or at times even Windows Defender instead of ST. Then of course adding one of the following every now and then. Cyberhawk, Arovax Shield, and WinPatrol Free. So my main problem it seems is not staying satisfied with whatever current set up I'm using. I don't think I really care so much if I can or cannot get infected using Firefox and NoScript, as it is playing around with what ever combo I use next. I have made a definite decision to stay away from HIPS programs like SSM, DSA, and PS though. Not that any one of them isn't a very good app, but I feel they simply are more than a novice like myself really needs at the moment. In conclusion, I have also decided not to use any software that has had repeated troubles however small they may be. I won't mention them as to not offend anyone, but we all have read about most of them at one time or another. I know ZA has been one of the most talked about software for troubles, but I have to say I really like the newest free version which seems to be suiting my needs so far. Also I am feeling good about using AVG Anti-Malware with it, as it runs light, has frequent updates, and hopefully has better detection now as stated by Grisoft. So it would seem all I have to do now is stay satisfied, right? Oh by the way, did you hear Cyberhawk is putting out a new version after the first of the year? LOL.

[KDNeese]

It has been interesting to read the responses, mainly in reference to my original post in another thread. Many of the things I wrote in that post concerning obsession were essentially a self-portrait. I found myself spending all my time online at the security forums learning how to protect my computer so I could come back to the security forums to find more security apps to protect my computer - and round and round it went. There is a lot of truth in Notok's comments:

The second is becoming a hobbiest. This is where you don't become paranoid, but you start having a whole lot of fun trying out new applications, seeing how they work, how they work with other applications, and so on. A lot of times this leads to becoming a beta tester. You start learning more about the application and how it works, so the logical next step is to start finding bugs and working with the developers to get them fixed. This is a lot of fun, but it's more about learning about your system and, more importantly, learning to troubleshoot and learning the technologies that exist. For me it was also a great creative outlet, learning to put that knowledge into creating ideas to help companies innovate.

I agree it is not all centered around being obsessed with security, but the learning process about security. While there is the practical aspect of protecting your computer, there is also the 'fun' aspect of seeing what a new app will do. As others have stated, there is a lot of wonderful information at these forums, and I have learned a great deal about computers and computer security in the time I've frequented Wilders, Castlecops and other forums. I have also loved the opportunity to try to help others with the information I have learned myself, however limited it may be. The problem for me is the vast amount of time I have been spending reading through the forums, losing track of time, then looking at the clock only to see it is 2 or 3AM, knowing that I am going to feel like a zombie at work the next day. For awhile, the bulk of my free time was spent online perusing the forums for new info or new apps to try. As Notok says, for those who love to learn, these forums provide a great opportunity. The point I wanted to try to get across is to not allow ourselves to become so obsessed with the security of our computers that we forget we purchased the computers for our enjoyment. Several have mentioned that the forums make one paranoid. In some ways that is good, as the dangers of the Internet are real, and it is good to be informed regarding them. However, we have to guard against being so cautious that all the enjoyment is taken out of using our computers online.

[Devil's Advocate]

This discussion seems to crop up once very couple of months.

Hobbyist versus paranoid.

I wonder how large the paranoid group is here? 50%?

[farmerlee]

I guess i am a little paranoid which partly fuels my need to have lots of security apps. But i am primarily a 'hobbiest', i like to try out new apps and experiment with them.

[Ocky]

Being rather new to Wilders, addiction is steadily manifesting itself This is not good for one's mental and physical health. Websites I usually frequent are now relegated to the backburner. Will have to pull myself together and hope that the withdrawal symptoms won't be too severe.
Now, would you recommend Cyberhawk or DSA, my setup is as follows......

[zapjb]

Sometimes I have to resist trying new security apps. Most are garbage anyways. But I've been there many times. You know 7 startup security apps, lol.

Now I'm comfortable again. 2 startup security apps. But I also have my XP pro VERY locked down. And the usual ondemand SSD, AAW & A2.

[Devil's Advocate]

Originally Posted by Ocky

Now, would you recommend Cyberhawk or DSA, my setup is as follows......

I think we need a separate forum for setup checks.

[QBgreen]

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

I think we need a separate forum for setup checks.

Now that's a good idea. How about it, those in charge? Now that would be one heavily frequented forum!