ProSecurity vs. Online-Armor

[dallen]

This thread is intended for people to compare and contrast features and/or experiences using ProSecurity and Online-Armor, with particular attention given to forum members that have used both. [I have not, but will soon]

I have not tried this product, but after reviewing their tour of its GUI, i dont like the gui. Perhaps it may be a good program i am not sure , however its not worth $40 thats for sure. it should be in the $25-$30 in my very vague opinion. I would like also to hear other opinions about this product.

I loaded it up in vmware, but it refuses to install withought having an internet connection. So for my testing thats as far as it goes. I dont like the fact i cant use it if i am not connected to the internet.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

I have tried Online Armor in VMware and it worked/works fine. Tried it on two live PCs too, one with Intel and one with AMD architecture. No problems.

As to the GUI, I must warmly compliment the development team at tallemu for one of the most intuitive and easiest GUIs. I'm very pedant, highly anal and absolutely hate MS-like clutter. I like simple, fast things. Online Armor has a very good front-end.

Price? I haven't thought about it too much. Although, personally, if I really like something, I'll buy it, regardless of the price.

Another EXTREMELY important thing is honesty. Mike openly admits that some of his moves ARE advertisement and are aimed at increasing profit. Likewise, he does not shy from accepting mistakes. I like this attitude. He who admits his mistakes can improve.

Best example of a static giant that can never admit a mistake? Microsoft. Ever heard them apologize for WGA disabling legit computers? Just an example.

BTW, I believe, as the popularity goes up, Mike will be able to offer a limited promotional free version and maybe even reduce the price. But that's a process that needs time.

Personally, I might be a communist and believe in free and open software world, but I have no beef with high-quality companies delivering good, simple products. Example, I gladly paid for Tune Up utilities or Acronis True Image.

And if a friend asks me for a money-for security app, he will very likely hear me mention Online Armor - alongside DefenseWall or Ewido, for example.

Mrk

P.S. Mike is going to receive his Bilabong .wav soon, so it's gonna be ok...

[MikeNash]

Originally Posted by TECHWG

I have not tried this product, but after reviewing their tour of its GUI, i dont like the gui. Perhaps it may be a good program i am not sure , however its not worth $40 thats for sure. it should be in the $25-$30 in my very vague opinion. I would like also to hear other opinions about this product.

The Tours section is way out of date - these screens are more representative of our GUI now:

http://support.online-armor.com/foru...opic.php?t=392

Thanks for the link. I see it looks better, but it seems they are trying to make it a magic bullet with full firewall and spyware protection etc. i will stick with PS

Thanks for sharing that link

WG

[MikeNash]

Originally Posted by TECHWG

Thanks for the link. I see it looks better, but it seems they are trying to make it a magic bullet with full firewall and spyware protection etc. i will stick with PS

Thanks for sharing that link

WG

I think your use of the term "Magic Bullet" is a little disingenuous, especially as you're been heavily promoting Pro-Security, the other app on this thread. There's no such thing as a magic bullet, and everyone knows it. It is not a term that I have ever used to describe Online Armor (although, perhaps I did once, when drunk, but that shouldn't count.)

What Online Armor is really trying to do is provide a solid security product for the average user - and one that they can use easily. Have we a way to go yet? Well, yes - we have a beta of the next OA currently running. So, let's talk about that for a moment, shall we?

Our firewall has been in testing now for months. The feedback that we've had on that has been great. We have people who are very familiar with firewalls giving positive feedback. We have absolute beginners giving positive feedback. We've also had (and addressed as best we can) the negative feedback we received and made improvements where we could.

(Per the "ideal firewall" link I read over at Matousec - OAFW implements two drivers for it's firewall - one at NDIS layer and one at the TDI layer. If you look at their description, for the main part OA is close to their definition of the "perfect" windows firewall). I don't claim the firewall is perfect, of course - but it's not the trivial add-on your post implies.

The firewall part is fast, easy to use, innovative - and as soon as we finish integrating our new (separate) Kernel Mode driver for tamper and leak protection I'll quite happily put it up against any firewall or security product on the market in competitive tests.

In other words, it is a full firewall, it just happens to be integrated. A lot of people might object to this, and cry "bloatware" - but the firewall adds about 1mb to the OA installer (and, even cuter - if you don't like/want/need it you can remove the firewall drivers ).

However, aside from execution protection offered by ProcessGuard/Prosecurity, Online Armor also features a webshield, which pre-filters web content for potentially malicious content. It treats Rundll32 correctly (parameterised), and it also treats the windows scripting host and MSHTA files in a similar way.

Its mailshield scans inbound email (POP and IMAP, zero configuration) for known nasties, and also implements a couple of cute, internal checks for common worm/malware trickery (as well as antiphishing scanning); Optional Antivirus (Kaspersky - but also plays well with most other AVs including NOD32).

As far as I am aware, OA is the only product on the market which includes protection against DNS spoofing - and new context-sensitive HOSTS checking, plus more informative popups to guide the users.

Right now I'm running logged on as an admin, but Online Armor has dynamically dropped my Firefox permissions to run as a less priviliged user (similar to drop my rights). It does the same with Opera, IE - and various other microsoft apps. This reduces the "attack surface" significantly without *any* interaction on the novice user's part.

Are there issues still with OA? Yes, there are. If I say otherwise, I'd be lying. But the thing is , we're working on them as fast as we can for our solid v2 release. Our firewall piece took a bit longer than anticipated, but it will be well worth the weight.

When V2 is released, I'll put it up for any set of tests you might imagine - you could put ProSecurity up there too and people could compare them.

My point: OA is not a magic bullet, and I haven't ever claimed it is. It does cover a lot of ground, and what it does, it does well. We're gradually increasing the amount of ground it covers, starting with the firewall and kernel mode 2.0 release which is shaping up nicely. I've always promised that we will add features to OA aimed to be "best in class". The view so far seems to be that I'm close to accomplishing that with our firewall. Now, on to kernel mode which will open up the next set of innovations.

We recently added about 50 beta testers to the OA Private beta - I have no objections whatsoever if any of those guys (or the existing beta test team) wish to make any comments on what I've posted here tonight.

For me - it's nearly 2am here and I'm off to bed!


Mike

[dallen]

TECHWG,
Online-Armor certainly is not for everyone. I hope that you will continue to keep us up-to-date on the ProSecurity side of things. Judging by the your postings and the fact that you are an Administrator in the ProSecurity forum it seems that you have intimate knowledge of ProSecurity, thus it would be helpful if you monitor this thread as people compare and contrast the two products and continue to participate in the discussion that follows.


As a point of clarification, the last posting seems to ignore the fact that OA comes with, or without, the firewall component.

[lodore]

ive been a fan of OA for a while now and the firewall sounds great.
i might even add it to my setup and uninstall antihacker in kis6.0 and use the oa firewall if its better but before i think about that i think i will wait till version 2.0 is out.
odd im sure i had online armor fan in my sig.
lodore

I am always on this forum and checking, but damn Mike nash, perhaps you should write a book ?!?! damn thats a long post i will read it all at some point ater i eat.

[BuckSnort_]

Just thought I would throw in my two cents just in case this discussion gets out of hand. I am familiar with both programs and like them both. I have used all versions of ProSecurity since it was in beta, and purchased a lifetime license at that time. I also bought a license for Online Armor+AV and have been a beta tester for the firewall version since July. Both products serve the purpose for what they were intended.

I basically have always had a love/hate relationship with ProSecurity and have uninstalled/reinstalled it more times than I can remember. At the same time, I have never been without Online Armor and intend to keep it that way. The two programs coexist quite well, but there is overlap. For a pure HIPS, ProSecurity is one of the best but it can be extremely frustrating at times for the average user, like me, who isn't exactly sure what is safe to allow and doesn't have the time to check out all the warnings. Online Armor+AV w/FW, on the other hand, is simple to use and protects so much more, that I am running it as my only real time security program. Can't wait to use the kernel mode full time. I know many members of this forum would disagree with relying on just one program for protection instead of the layered approach, but that just shows you the confidence I have in Mike Nash's product.

[dallen]

BuckSnort_,
Thank you for your candid remarks.

[Peter2150]

I have had love hate affairs with several firewalls, and when OA's firewall first came up I had reservations, but at the same time put in my must have list. Well this firewall has turned out to be awesome. It's light, is simple if you just want an application firewall, but if you are into rules, etc, you can turn on the advanced mode and have at.

Also because of it's web filtering, it has a clever way of being able to block advertising crude.

But aside from that, Mike's treatment of people is first class, and that is important.

I would also add that yes I test for OA, and yes, I am probably biased. But it is based on the way I've been treated by Mike, and not on getting freebies.
I've paid for the licenses of all 3 of my computers, and it was well worth it. This is a solid product and just going to get better and better.

Pete

[Peter2150]

Originally Posted by TECHWG

I am always on this forum and checking, but damn Mike nash, perhaps you should write a book ?!?! damn thats a long post i will read it all at some point ater i eat.

Hi TECHWG

I know you are involved with Prosecurity, and I think thats cool. What I think would be neat, and really beneficial to all is to have Prosecurities developer, pop in here at Wilders and introduce himself.

I think people enjoyed Mike's post in the other thread giving some background on who Online Armor is and what's behind it. I can only view Prosecurites developer doing the same thing as a win win for all.

You might encourage him to do this, and if language is an issue, all he has to remember is sincerity and candor surpass language, and will be obvious.

Pete

[JW Clements]

Originally Posted by TECHWG

I loaded it up in vmware, but it refuses to install withought having an internet connection. So for my testing thats as far as it goes. I dont like the fact i cant use it if i am not connected to the internet.

Mike Nash may correct me on this, but I believe that the application installs and is active before connecting to the TE verification server, so you aren't compromised. Once you're verified, you do not need to connect to the Internet, except for updates and if you run the Spam Sheild (but in this case you're connected to receive e-mail anyway).

Am I right Mike?

Jim

[lodore]

Mike nash is very helpful with support with online armor.
just like Nick is with support with SAS.
lodore

[ronjor]

Several off topic posts removed. Personal attacks will not be condoned on these forums.

[Perman]

Hi, folks: I would assume the thread reads to this effect: ProSecurity vs. Online-Armor. Therefore I also assume that this OA is OA w/o AV&FW. Otherwise, there is no point to compare these two, one is pure HIPS, whereas the other is full-blown security suite(namely internet security suite), and should be in the same boat as KIS,ZASS and their likes. Let us forcus on pure HIPS topics, and like to post a question to Mike(creator of OA) or its royal users: Can OA provide users an adequate protection while off-line? I am a ProSecurity user and I know PS does provide such a service. I fully respect Mike and I have learned that he is the most honest modern software developer among all others.

[starfish_001]

Originally Posted by BuckSnort_

Just thought I would throw in my two cents just in case this discussion gets out of hand. I am familiar with both programs and like them both. I have used all versions of ProSecurity since it was in beta, and purchased a lifetime license at that time. I also bought a license for Online Armor+AV and have been a beta tester for the firewall version since July. Both products serve the purpose for what they were intended.

I basically have always had a love/hate relationship with ProSecurity and have uninstalled/reinstalled it more times than I can remember. At the same time, I have never been without Online Armor and intend to keep it that way. The two programs coexist quite well, but there is overlap. For a pure HIPS, ProSecurity is one of the best but it can be extremely frustrating at times for the average user, like me, who isn't exactly sure what is safe to allow and doesn't have the time to check out all the warnings. Online Armor+AV w/FW, on the other hand, is simple to use and protects so much more, that I am running it as my only real time security program. Can't wait to use the kernel mode full time. I know many members of this forum would disagree with relying on just one program for protection instead of the layered approach, but that just shows you the confidence I have in Mike Nash's product.

I beta tested OA near the start - used it for quite a while and then decided that SSM + Outpost and NOD could do everything I wanted particularly as opera is my main browser. From time to time I change my mind and have a another go. The firewall has truned out better than I could have imagined - the weaknesses in the design have been acknowledged and addressed
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showt...035#post895035

For the average user my dad springs to mind OA is the one to keep.

I also quite like PS a very good Hips but I have never migrated to my main snapshot from test. But I have a lifetime lic so that might change as updates are frequent.

[dallen]

Please do not derail what seems to be an otherwise productive thread. Thanks ronjor for allowing the thread to remain open while keeping us on track.
I agree with Perman and I admit that I totally overlooked this. I will have to keep it in mind when comparing the two.

[Peter2150]

Originally Posted by Perman

Hi, folks: I would assume the thread reads to this effect: ProSecurity vs. Online-Armor. Therefore I also assume that this OA is OA w/o AV&FW. Otherwise, there is no point to compare these two, one is pure HIPS, whereas the other is full-blown security suite(namely internet security suite), and should be in the same boat as KIS,ZASS and their likes. Let us forcus on pure HIPS topics, and like to post a question to Mike(creator of OA) or its royal users: Can OA provide users an adequate protection while off-line? I am a ProSecurity user and I know PS does provide such a service. I fully respect Mike and I have learned that he is the most honest modern software developer among all others.

Hi Perman

First your slip of the finger (royal users) still has me chuckling. Not sure what you mean by offline protection. Some of it's protection lilke Active X warnings aren't applicable, but yes it does warn about new progams trying to start, drivers being installed, etc. while you are off line. If I've missed the point of your question, explain in a bit more detail.

Cheers,

Pete

[Perman]

Hi, folks: hi, pete, I have learned quite bit pc knowhow from you, you have earned all respects from me, and others too, i am sure. Therefore, there was no offending at all when I typed "royal uses", it simply means "satisfatory users", just like I am a "royal user" of DeepFreeze". What I refered as "offline"means when I use pc w/o internet connection, will OA still protect my box? Thanks again.

[MikeNash]

Originally Posted by Perman

Hi, folks: I would assume the thread reads to this effect: ProSecurity vs. Online-Armor. Therefore I also assume that this OA is OA w/o AV&FW. Otherwise, there is no point to compare these two, one is pure HIPS, whereas the other is full-blown security suite(namely internet security suite), and should be in the same boat as KIS,ZASS and their likes. Let us forcus on pure HIPS topics, and like to post a question to Mike(creator of OA) or its royal users: Can OA provide users an adequate protection while off-line? I am a ProSecurity user and I know PS does provide such a service. I fully respect Mike and I have learned that he is the most honest modern software developer among all others.

Hi Perman,

I think the confusion arises because OA (with FW) is being used to refer to the version of OA that is currently in beta testing. OA version 2 will only ship in two "flavors" - one with Antivirus (AV+) and one without. Both versions will contain kernel mode code, and both versions will contain the firewall.

Now, to answer the question "Can OA provided an adequate protection while offline?" - my first comment would be "protection from what?"

OA works while you're not connected to the net - but while you're offline, you won't be receiving mail, downloading new programs or visiting websites. Of course, the keylogger, execution protection and all other stuff will still work.


Cheers

Mike

[MikeNash]

Originally Posted by JW Clements

Mike Nash may correct me on this, but I believe that the application installs and is active before connecting to the TE verification server, so you aren't compromised. Once you're verified, you do not need to connect to the Internet, except for updates and if you run the Spam Sheild (but in this case you're connected to receive e-mail anyway).

Am I right Mike?

Jim

Hi Jim

Close - this feature has been requested by a few users, but not yet implemented.

For the rest - yes, once you are verified you only need to connect to the net for:

* Updates
* Spam Shield
* Trusted DNS verification

Cheers

Mike

[Perman]

Hi, folks: hi, Mike, many thanks for your prompt reply, I did not mean to disturb your breakfast or your favorable cup of tea. Your reply has cleared up all my puzzles. I will give your v.2 a good test, although I did not have any luck earlier this year. Have a nice day there.