cloned disk, now trouble defragmenting

[thebigdintx]

about a two weeks ago or so i used acronis true image to clone my old drive to a larger hard drive (version 9.3567, windows xp home sp2, one hard drive, only 1 partition) about that time, i began to have problems with windows disk defragmenter not being able to defrag all my files, but it dosn't list any fragmented files under the report section. i downloaded and i used disk keeper's boot time defragmenter, but i have since got rid of disk keeper because it was just the free trial. i still have like 1 pagefile and 1 mtf file fragmented. i never in the last year and a half had any problem with the windows defragmenter fully defraging the drive......any ideas?

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by thebigdintx

about a two weeks ago or so i used acronis true image to clone my old drive to a larger hard drive (version 9.3567, windows xp home sp2, one hard drive, only 1 partition) about that time, i began to have problems with windows disk defragmenter not being able to defrag all my files, but it dosn't list any fragmented files under the report section. i downloaded and i used disk keeper's boot time defragmenter, but i have since got rid of disk keeper because it was just the free trial. i still have like 1 pagefile and 1 mtf file fragmented. i never in the last year and a half had any problem with the windows defragmenter fully defraging the drive......any ideas?

First, the built-in windows defragger NEVER fully defragments a drive.

AFAIK, Perfect Disk is the best defragger out there.
Until yesterday, you could get it for about $12 AFTER rebate at Amazon.
You might check to see whether the rebate offer has been extended (I doubt it).

Even at full price, Perfect Disk is worth having.

[thebigdintx]

well, what i mean is that it always ran all the way through, and then poped up a message that "disk defragmentation is complete". now i get an error message is poping up saying that "the disk could not be fully defragmented". i don't feel the need to pay for a disk defragmenter program, and would be happy just using the limited one supplied with xp if i could just get it to work the way it used to.

[jmk94903]

Originally Posted by thebigdintx

well, what i mean is that it always ran all the way through, and then poped up a message that "disk defragmentation is complete". now i get an error message is poping up saying that "the disk could not be fully defragmented". i don't feel the need to pay for a disk defragmenter program, and would be happy just using the limited one supplied with xp if i could just get it to work the way it used to.

Have you run the ErrorChecking function in Windows XP? Right click on the drive letter, pick Properties and then ErrorChecking on the Tools tab. Check both boxes and reboot to run the complete check. This may allow the defragmenter to finish.

[thebigdintx]

yes, have already run disk cleanup, and check disk. also, my antivirus, and antispyware apps dont show anything, and i'm using software and hardware firewalls, so have not had any problems in these areas anyways.

is there something with changing your hard disk drive to a new larger one (different brand also) that changes something in your pagefile and/or the mft....and if so, can i change it back?

[beenthereb4]

You can use the trial version of PerfectDisk for 30 days:

http://www.softpedia.com/progDownloa...load-2808.html

At the least, it will tell you what the problem really is, at the best, it will fix it.

[thebigdintx]

i'm sorry, my mistake,,,i was trying to remember which one i tried out and said disk keeper, but i was mistaken,,,,it was perfect disk 7 that i tried out. i ran the boot time defragger, then ran the windows xp one and it seemed fixed, but next time i ran the windows one, and every subsequent time i ran the windows disk defragmenter, that same error message came up. i think something may have occurred during the cloning process that changed something in my pagefile and MFT because i never had any problems with the windows defragmenter before.

[beenthereb4]

Originally Posted by thebigdintx

i think something may have occurred during the cloning process that changed something in my pagefile and MFT because i never had any problems with the windows defragmenter before.

If you had problems with your pagefile or MFT, PerfectDisk would not be able to defragment them either. Your problem lies with the Windows Defragmenter and is fairly common.

[thebigdintx]

according to perfectdisk, their software does defragment the MFT and pagefile.........you can view their info on their website http://www.raxco.com/products/perfec...k_features.cfm......
would a repair install of windows xp fix the MFT and pagefile? and if i do a repair install of windows, do i lose any of my installed programs, settings, or data?

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by thebigdintx

i'm sorry, my mistake,,,i was trying to remember which one i tried out and said disk keeper, but i was mistaken,,,,it was perfect disk 7 that i tried out. i ran the boot time defragger, then ran the windows xp one and it seemed fixed, but next time i ran the windows one, and every subsequent time i ran the windows disk defragmenter, that same error message came up. i think something may have occurred during the cloning process that changed something in my pagefile and MFT because i never had any problems with the windows defragmenter before.

Perfect Disk support is very responsive.
Dunno how deeply they will go for the trial version.

I ran the trial version back in mid-Feb.
Purchased the critter in early March.

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by thebigdintx

about a two weeks ago or so i used acronis true image to clone my old drive to a larger hard drive (version 9.3567, windows xp home sp2, one hard drive, only 1 partition) about that time, i began to have problems with windows disk defragmenter not being able to defrag all my files, but it dosn't list any fragmented files under the report section. i downloaded and i used disk keeper's boot time defragmenter, but i have since got rid of disk keeper because it was just the free trial. i still have like 1 pagefile and 1 mtf file fragmented. i never in the last year and a half had any problem with the windows defragmenter fully defraging the drive......any ideas?

I REPEAT, the built-in windows defragger does NOT ever fully defrag a drive.
The purty color display is misleading.

[norrisg]

First, how fragmented are your pagefile and MFT? A couple of fragments are not worth worrying about.

Second, alternating between two defraggers is a bad idea as they will use different alogrithms and each will take an eternity to change what the other one did. This is definitely a case of two is not better than one.

Third, you can defrag your page file by removing it, rebooting, defragging the drive, then recreating the page file. If you don't know how to do this, you probably shouldn't try it.

Fourth, a drive may not be completely fragmented for a couple of reasons. One is insufficient free space: just because the physical drive is now larger doesn't necessarily mean the partition on it is any bigger, and you don't mention what the sizes are. Another reason is files in use: are you defragmenting with nothing else running, including as few background services as possible?

Finally, if you are that bothered about defragging your drive fully, then you really should buy a proper defragmenter. I use PD7 on XP x64 and Diskeeper on regular XP, both work. O&O Defrag's demo will install hidden and unremovable registry entries (not unlike a rootkit does, but these ones don't appear malicious) and for that reason alone I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I don't like sneaky changes to my machine by anything, even if they aren't harmful.

(Edited: swapped two words typed the wrong way round.)

[thebigdintx]

Originally Posted by norrisg

First, how fragmented are your pagefile and MFT? A couple of fragments are not worth worrying about.

Second, alternating between two defraggers is a bad idea as they will use different alogrithms and each will take an eternity to change what the other one did. This is definitely a case of two is not better than one.

Third, you can defrag your page file by removing it, rebooting, defragging the drive, then recreating the page file. If you don't know how to do this, you probably shouldn't try it.

Fourth, a drive may not be completely fragmented for a couple of reasons. One is insufficient free space: just because the physical drive is now larger doesn't necessarily mean the partition on it is any bigger, and you don't mention what the sizes are. Another reason is files in use: are you defragmenting with nothing else running, including as few background services as possible?

Finally, if you are that bothered about defragging your drive fully, then you really should buy a proper defragmenter. I use PD7 on XP x64 and Diskeeper on regular XP, both work. O&O Defrag's demo will install hidden and unremovable registry entries (not unlike a rootkit does, but these ones don't appear malicious) and for that reason I alone wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I don't like sneaky changes to my machine by anything, even if they aren't harmful.

i have 1 fragment in pagefile (i already turned it off, rebooted, defraged, and reinstated the pagefile). i have 2 fragmented files in the MFT. i have a 80GB drive which is 92 percent free space. i have also tried running defrag in safe mode to eliminate as many background services as possible.

[beenthereb4]

Originally Posted by thebigdintx

according to perfectdisk, their software does defragment the MFT and pagefile.........you can view their info on their website http://www.raxco.com/products/perfec...k_features.cfm......
would a repair install of windows xp fix the MFT and pagefile? and if i do a repair install of windows, do i lose any of my installed programs, settings, or data?

Apparently, transferring information to you is not possible for me. Therefore, I'm going to give up on this one.

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by norrisg

First, how fragmented are your pagefile and MFT? A couple of fragments are not worth worrying about.

It's really easy to minimize fragmentation of page files.

Use the program at http://www.standards.com/index.html?...leUsageMonitor to determine just how big your pagefiles need to be.

Then put a FIXED-size page of, say, 64MB on the C drive, and a VARIABLE-size page file on another PHYSICAL drive (one that does not have the OS). Set the MINIMUM size to what you think you need, in my case, I used to use 64MB, but had to bump it up to 128MB, and make the maximum so that the toatal pagefile sizes add up to, say, 1.5 times memory.

Originally Posted by norrisg

Second, alternating between two defraggers is a bad idea as they will use different alogrithms and each will take an eternity to change what the other one did. This is definitely a case of two is not better than one.

That's fer shure!

Originally Posted by norrisg

Third, you can defrag your page file by removing it, rebooting, defragging the drive, then recreating the page file. If you don't know how to do this, you probably shouldn't try it.

Even easier is to use a program that will defrag in boot mode.

Originally Posted by norrisg

Fourth, a drive may not be completely fragmented for a couple of reasons. One is insufficient free space: just because the physical drive is now larger doesn't necessarily mean the partition on it is any bigger, and you don't mention what the sizes are. Another reason is files in use: are you defragmenting with nothing else running, including as few background services as possible?

Yes, and even Perfect Disk will not defrag certain files if it feels there's no benefit.

In general, the MFT wil lbe fragmented, as no mtter what you do, you have to allow for growth of directories, MFT, etc.

Originally Posted by norrisg

Finally, if you are that bothered about defragging your drive fully, then you really should buy a proper defragmenter. I use PD7 on XP x64 and Diskeeper on regular XP, both work. O&O Defrag's demo will install hidden and unremovable registry entries (not unlike a rootkit does, but these ones don't appear malicious) and for that reason alone I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I don't like sneaky changes to my machine by anything, even if they aren't harmful.

Diskeeper also installs crap, but I believe that most things can be turned off in the real product, but not the trial version.

PD has the best algorithm, does not install any needless crap, and does not disable the built-in windoze defragger.

[norrisg]

Originally Posted by thebigdintx

i have 1 fragment in pagefile (i already turned it off, rebooted, defraged, and reinstated the pagefile). i have 2 fragmented files in the MFT. i have a 80GB drive which is 92 percent free space. i have also tried running defrag in safe mode to eliminate as many background services as possible.

Given that minimal level of fragmentation, you've got nothing to worry about.

[norrisg]

Originally Posted by Howard Kaikow

Then put a FIXED-size page of, say, 64MB on the C drive, and a VARIABLE-size page file on another PHYSICAL drive (one that does not have the OS). Set the MINIMUM size to what you think you need, in my case, I used to use 64MB, but had to bump it up to 128MB, and make the maximum so that the toatal pagefile sizes add up to, say, 1.5 times memory.

If you put a variable size page file *anywhere* it will fragment if it is used, and make your computer slow into the bargain.

[Longboard]

try this?

for GUI for power defragger from Sysinternals, 1st link on list, and recent update.
Thanks to rejzor.
http://www.excessive-software.eu.tt/

Contig.exe is here
http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/Contig.html

Read the page for command line options.

Unzip, put both expanded files in the same folder any where and hit GUI exe.
Does not install.

Works for me

Regards.

[mikisu]

Originally Posted by Longboard

try this?

for GUI for power defragger from Sysinternals, 1st link on list, and recent update.
Thanks to rejzor.
http://www.excessive-software.eu.tt/

Contig.exe is here
http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/Contig.html

Read the page for command line options.

Unzip, put both expanded files in the same folder any where and hit GUI exe.
Does not install.

Works for me

Regards.

a very effective utility,amazingly fast.

Mike

.

[Franklin]

Some snippets.

Do you have prefetching turned on or at least a reg setting of 2 (boot files) as the "layout.ini file" is needed for the boot sequence to be defragged properly.

Perfect disk needs both Dcom Server Process Launcher and Remote Procedure Call in services set to auto to work properly.

Aslo you could check the event viewer for probs relating to the defragger.

[Franklin]

With those defraggers from sysinternals watch your disk activity light in your case.

Didn't seem to be much happening on mine when I tried them a while ago.

Things may be different on other pc's.

[Longboard]

Heh
Maybe because Perth faces the wrong way.
Might affect software if HD spins in the wrong direction.

Regards

[Franklin]

Let's just say the further from Canberra the better!LOL

[Franklin]

Now here is a perfect defragged C drive. 1.2 gig of data on a 5.5 gig partition.

XP pro sp2 (thinned quite a bit) with no page file.

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by norrisg

If you put a variable size page file *anywhere* it will fragment if it is used, and make your computer slow into the bargain.

Not if you make the initial segment large enough, and defrag before first use.
Fragmentation will occur only if it becomes necessary for windoze to use more than the initial minimum size,