F11 key already assigned.

[Ed Chait]

I have a newer Gateway computer that has already assigned the F11 key during bootup for Gateway's own recovery system. These systems ship with a "D:" partition that has all of the recovery data on it as opposed to having a "recovery disk."

Is there any option for re-assigning another key in True Image 9.0 for recovery during bootup?

Any solution at all for this issue besides just booting into True Image from a recovery CD?

thank you,

Ed Chait

[Menorcaman]

Hello Ed,

It wouldn't matter which key TI assigned (even if it were possible to change it - which it isn't) because TI's F11 functionality is provided by its Startup Recovery Manager (SRM). Activating the SRM (you need to create an Acronis Secure Zone first) will overwrite your Gateway's existing Master Boot Record with TI's own. Once that happens, you will no longer be able to access the Gateway's special recovery partition.

So, I'm afraid you can't have your cake and eat it so to speak. You will need to choose between the Gateway recovery partition or TI's F11/Secure Zone feature. Many TI Users, having determined that TI functions correctly on their particular hardware, decide to remove these Manufacturer's special recovery partitions from their computers and rely on TI imaging/restoring instead. After all, it's not often anyone wants (or needs) to roll-back their system to "Day 1" .

Regards

[Ed Chait]

Originally Posted by Menorcaman

Hello Ed,

It wouldn't matter which key TI assigned (even if it were possible to change it - which it isn't) because TI's F11 functionality is provided by its Startup Recovery Manager (SRM). Activating the SRM (you need to create an Acronis Secure Zone first) will overwrite your Gateway's existing Master Boot Record with TI's own. Once that happens, you will no longer be able to access the Gateway's special recovery partition.

So, I'm afraid you can't have your cake and eat it so to speak. You will need to choose between the Gateway recovery partition or TI's F11/Secure Zone feature. Many TI Users, having determined that TI functions correctly on their particular hardware, decide to remove these Manufacturer's special recovery partitions from their computers and rely on TI imaging/restoring instead. After all, it's not often anyone wants (or needs) to roll-back their system to "Day 1" .

Regards

Thank you so much for your detailed answer and explanation. Like you mention, restoring my system to "Day 1" is not a very attractive option compared to restoring an image of my current c: drive.

Once I get a bit more familiar with TI and know that it's working well on my system, I will set up the Secure Zone feature and forget about Gateway's "recovery."

One more question..........

Could I then safely use TI to get rid of that Gateway D: recovery partition and add the unallocated space to my C: partition?

thanks,

Ed Chait

[Menorcaman]

Originally Posted by Ed Chait

Could I then safely use TI to get rid of that Gateway D: recovery partition and add the unallocated space to my C: partition?

Hi Ed,

Depends on whether or not the Gateway recovery partition is visible in Windows Disk Management. When you're ready to get rid of the recovery partition, and prior to creating an Acronis Secure Zone (SZ), create an image to a second hard drive or DVDs as insurance against something going wrong. Then try the following:

1. Right click on "My Computer", select "Manage" and then "Disk Management".
2. If the Gateway recovery partition is shown, right click on it and see if the "Delete" option is available. If it is then delete it. This will leave you with unallocated space equal to the size of original Gateway partition.
3. Use the Manage Acronis Secure Zone Wizard to create a SZ in the unallocated space left by the deletion of the Gateway partition (set the size slider to use all the available space).
4. Once the new SZ has been created, use the Manage Acronis Secure Zone Wizard again to remove it and choose to give the released space to your C: partition.
5. When done, use Windows Disk Management to check the previously unallocated space has disappeared and that the C: partition has increased accordingly.

You can then create another SZ from the C: partition if that's what you choose to save your future images to. However, be aware that should your hard drive crash then the SZ (along with any images contained therein) will be inaccessible and you will loose that particular avenue for system recovery. So, I guess the moral of the story is, if you must use the SZ then you should also backup regularly to another hard drive or optical media .

Regards

[Ed Chait]

Thanks again for delineating the procedure to delete the D: partition and reclaim the space.

I have two external USB 2.0 drives and a second internal hard drive that I regularly save images to. This is a pc that I use for work and I can't afford to lose data and have downtime.

I like the idea of also saving an image to the SZ because it just seems like a convenient way to recover as opposed to using rescue media. I also believe in plenty of redundancy in regards to data recovery.

Another reason I want to get rid of that D: partition is that I want to assign the D: to my second internal hard drive. I'm a bit obsessive/compulsive with stuff like that.

thanks again for all your help, it's much appreciated.

Regards,

Ed Chait

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by Ed Chait

Thank you so much for your detailed answer and explanation. Like you mention, restoring my system to "Day 1" is not a very attractive option compared to restoring an image of my current c: drive.

Once I get a bit more familiar with TI and know that it's working well on my system, I will set up the Secure Zone feature and forget about Gateway's "recovery."

One more question..........

Could I then safely use TI to get rid of that Gateway D: recovery partition and add the unallocated space to my C: partition?

thanks,

Ed Chait

Getting rid of the Gateway recovery partition could cause support problems with Gateway.

Why even use the Acronis Secure Zone?
In the general case, you need to prepare for the worst, which requires backip up from media.

[Menorcaman]

Originally Posted by Howard Kaikow

Why even use the Acronis Secure Zone?

It's an easy/convenient way to automatically limit the total number of images created.

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by Menorcaman

It's an easy/convenient way to automatically limit the total number of images created.

at the cost of not having any images available if the drive on which the zone goes bad, not to mention the needless overhead of having such a critter.

[Menorcaman]

Hence the statement I made in reply to Ed Chait at Post #4 above

However, be aware that should your hard drive crash then the SZ (along with any images contained therein) will be inaccessible and you will loose that particular avenue for system recovery. So, I guess the moral of the story is, if you must use the SZ then you should also backup regularly to another hard drive or optical media .

I was replying to your question regarding the Secure Zone and chose not to address the optional Startup Recovery Manager. So apart from the the disk space taken by the SZ, what overhead are you referring to?

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by Menorcaman

Hence the statement I made in reply to Ed Chait at Post #4 above

I was replying to your question regarding the Secure Zone and chose not to address the optional Startup Recovery Manager. So apart from the the disk space taken by the SZ, what overhead are you referring to?

THe overhead is forcing Windows to maintain the critter via Disk Management, etc.

Also, the nuisance, akin to hidden system partitions, of having to deal with, IMNSHO, a "useless" feature. As far as I am concerned, a backup program should be used to prepare for a disaster, and relying solely on the (in)SEcure Zone will mislead many users into thinking they are protected.

THe ONLY time such a zone would be useful, is for the type of user that does lots of RESTORING of drives, e.g., in testing apps and systems, but those users can fend for themselves. I am more concerned that th less experienced/unwary user will ge ta false comfort and use the (in)SEcure Zone.

Indeed, via telephone, later this week , I will be telling my sister how to install TI, and I will tell her to NEVER use the (in)Secure Zone, but since when do siblings listen!

[beckygb]

Before you delete Dell partition ‘D:’ be sure you have a way to recover should you have a hard drive crash, either because the OS is damaged or the drive goes south.

Personally I will not buy a computer that doesn’t have the OS on CD. I have a Dell pre partition D, but with the new Dells you can buy the OS on CD for $10. I don’t know if you can get it after your computer is shipped.

[Ed Chait]

Originally Posted by beckygb

Before you delete Dell partition ‘D:’ be sure you have a way to recover should you have a hard drive crash, either because the OS is damaged or the drive goes south.

Personally I will not buy a computer that doesn’t have the OS on CD. I have a Dell pre partition D, but with the new Dells you can buy the OS on CD for $10. I don’t know if you can get it after your computer is shipped.

I'm going to leave the D: partition on there for now, but why do you recommend not deleting it eventually?

If I have my entire C: drive, with OS and drivers imaged and backed up, why would I need to keep a recovery partition that will only allow me to restore my system to the way it was on Day 1?

Ed Chait

[beckygb]

Actually, in theory there is no reason to keep‘d:\’. I am just too cautious to want burn that kind of bridge behind me. At least I would make a permanent copy while your system is clean and healthy. Some of us experience slow downs after a time, mainly from the clutter that accumulates in the registry. Every time you delete a program there are tendencies for bits of old registry code to build up. I periodically do a clean install to clean the cobwebs out.

Also, in addition to registry clutter, you could get a misbehaving program or bug that takes time to realize you have it. When you do it may be too late to use a current backup effectively.

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by Ed Chait

I'm going to leave the D: partition on there for now, but why do you recommend not deleting it eventually?

If I have my entire C: drive, with OS and drivers imaged and backed up, why would I need to keep a recovery partition that will only allow me to restore my system to the way it was on Day 1?

Ed Chait

If you delete Dell's partition, you might be violating the Dell warranty, and, worse yet, you might have trouble getting Dell support.

I'd leave the partition out there until yiour Dell warranty was up.

JUst makes sure that you do at least daily backups and mak sure that you have bootable recovery media.

During the Dell warranty, also back up the Dell partitition.
Can TI back up such partitions?

I'm planning on building my own PCs in the futiure, but if I were to buy one, I would much prefer one that has no such hidden partition. Of course, I might decide to buy a PC from Costco, in which case, I'd likely get stuck wita vendor who uses hidden partitions.

[Menorcaman]

Originally Posted by Howard Kaikow

During the Dell warranty, also back up the Dell partitition.
Can TI back up such partitions?

Yes. Just make sure you create a "whole disk" backup by ticking the checkbox adjacent to the main system disk number (usually Disk 1) rather than the checkboxes next to the individual partition(s). Ditto during the subsequent restore.

[Ed Chait]

Originally Posted by beckygb

Actually, in theory there is no reason to keep‘d:\’. I am just too cautious to want burn that kind of bridge behind me. At least I would make a permanent copy while your system is clean and healthy. Some of us experience slow downs after a time, mainly from the clutter that accumulates in the registry. Every time you delete a program there are tendencies for bits of old registry code to build up. I periodically do a clean install to clean the cobwebs out.

Also, in addition to registry clutter, you could get a misbehaving program or bug that takes time to realize you have it. When you do it may be too late to use a current backup effectively.

If I did a clean install, it would take me literally months to get my pc back to where I have it right now. I run too many programs that take hours of tweaking to get them to where I want them to ever even consider doing a clean install and going back to Day 1.

I run several different utilities to keep my registry as clean as possible and prevent slowdown, but even so, I would put up with some slowdown versus having to reload and re-tweak all my programs.

I have imaged my drive including the D: recovery partition and will keep that image stored in case there is some remote possibility that I might have to restore it, but I really can't imagine ever doing so.

In any case, I'm not going to delete the D: partition until my pc is out of warranty because I don't want to cause any issues with Gateway.

thanks,

Ed Chait

[beckygb]

Ed,

Since your new machines is all tweaked and still quite clean and healthy, and have made a permanent backup, with D: on it you are good to go. I agree with you that you don’t want to go through the painful task of rebuilding from scratch. I have had to do that several times pre TI and it is no fun!

Keeping D: until expiration of your warranty is a good idea. It will also give you time to find out if you ever will need to go back to the very beginning. If you have a permanent backup and never delete it, and then do regular routine backups you should be in good shape.

Becky

[Chutsman]

And also it is a good idea to give the Image backup the acid test, i.e., do an actual Restore to a new hard drive. Of course, this means opening up the Gateway, which would void the warranty. So be sure to do a Restore as soon as the warranty is up. Do not rely on the "Backup Successful" message that you get at the end of an Image backup, until you have done a few successful Restores to be confident they work.

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by Chutsman

And also it is a good idea to give the Image backup the acid test, i.e., do an actual Restore to a new hard drive. Of course, this means opening up the Gateway, which would void the warranty. So be sure to do a Restore as soon as the warranty is up. Do not rely on the "Backup Successful" message that you get at the end of an Image backup, until you have done a few successful Restores to be confident they work.

How can opening a Gateway void a warranty?

If a system has empty drive bays and/or expansion slots, you most certainly would not void any warrantyby adding cards/drives.

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by Howard Kaikow

How can opening a Gateway void a warranty?

If a system has empty drive bays and/or expansion slots, you most certainly would not void any warrantyby adding cards/drives.

I just looked at the Gateway warranty at http://www.gateway.com/about/legal/warranty.shtml.
There's nothing that restricts you from ADDING cards or drives..

If you want to REPLACE a card or drive, you'd have to get Gateway's permission to not void the warranty.

[Chutsman]

In that case then the OP is "good to go".
Some desktop cases have a seal that gets broken when the case is opened and this voids the warranty. Perhaps Gateway is more liberal in what constitutes a voided warranty.

[Ed Chait]

Ok, I think I got my questions all sorted out now.

I would like to thank everyone who participated in this thread and provided me with lots of good info.

This forum has already been an invaluable resource for me.

thank you,

Ed Chait

[Howard Kaikow]

Originally Posted by Chutsman

In that case then the OP is "good to go".
Some desktop cases have a seal that gets broken when the case is opened and this voids the warranty. Perhaps Gateway is more liberal in what constitutes a voided warranty.

Gateway's warranty is nothing special, terms are pretty much standard.

If someone buys a case that has unused bays and/or expansion slots, there's no way any warranty could enforce preventing the user from opening a case to ADD things. And I do not believe that ANY PC vendor's system warranty would say so.

[beckygb]

run several different utilities to keep my registry as clean as possible and prevent slowdown, but even so, I would put up with some slowdown versus having to reload and re-tweak all my programs.

I also run several registry cleaners to put off the slowing of my computer. I have found some cleaners are too aggressive and can potently cause problems, and some are too tame, leaving a lot of trash behind. The problem is it sometimes is impossible to tell what the registry entries are for.

If you leave your computer alone you may not get any appreciable slow down. But I do a lot of playing with tweaks and trial programs so over time I develop slowdowns, less stability, and changes to the os operation I don’t like and can not figure out how to resolve.

Eventually I end up re-installing. But now that I have TI I can do one last major re-install. I will install the os and updates, major programs and major tweaks and do a permanent backup.

[seekforever]

I used to reload W98 about every 10 months or so to clean it up and get the speed back. I have been running XP on this machine for a few years and it is still the original load. Maybe it has slowed down but I can't really tell. (It is an AMD 1.2Ghz)

I do try and create an image before I install trial software but can't say I always do.