Is it possible to use TI without installing it?

[DwnNdrty]

TI is very picky when it comes to hardware. And since everyone's system will differ in some way, you just have to run TI on yours to see if it will work without problems.

But things that seem to throw a curve to TI are usb devices including hubs and card readers, wireless keyboard and mouse, flaky memory that may not show up as flaky in normal Windows use.

BTW, if you decide that you still want a backup on optical media, some users here use what is called the 2-step method. First make the Backup to a hard drive, external or internal, in splits that would fit on a dvd disk. Many use a 1492mb split as 3 of these fit on one disk with very little waste.

Then burn those splits to dvd using your favorite burning software. But to restore these, you have to put the splits back on to a hard drive.

[Anthony A]

Originally Posted by DwnNdrty

Then burn those splits to dvd using your favorite burning software. But to restore these, you have to put the splits back on to a hard drive.

You lost me here. I understand what you mean about burning the splits to DVD's after they have been created on my external HD but what do you mean I have to then put them back on a hard drive to restore them? I couldn't boot using a rescue CD/Install CD than insert the DVD's and restore that way the same as if the back up was burned to the DVD's in the first place

[DwnNdrty]

Originally Posted by Anthony A

You lost me here. I understand what you mean about burning the splits to DVD's after they have been created on my external HD but what do you mean I have to then put them back on a hard drive to restore them? I couldn't boot using a rescue CD/Install CD than insert the DVD's and restore that way the same as if the back up was burned to the DVD's in the first place

No, you can't restore them from the DVDs (unless that has changed in Ver. 11) when the splits originated from the hard drive. But if you did the backup directly to dvd (was this covered already?) then you can restore directly from dvd BUT this opens up another can of worms in that the restore process will involve numerous disk swaps calling for the same disk more than a couple of times.

[Anthony A]

Originally Posted by DwnNdrty

No, you can't restore them from the DVDs (unless that has changed in Ver. 11) when the splits originated from the hard drive. But if you did the backup directly to dvd (was this covered already?) then you can restore directly from dvd BUT this opens up another can of worms in that the restore process will involve numerous disk swaps calling for the same disk more than a couple of times.

OK so back up to external hard drive. Burn splits to DVD. When ready to restore copy DVD's back to external hard drive. Boot with rescue CD and restore back up from the external HD. The back up would have had to have been burned to the DVD during the back ups' creation in order to restore form the DVD's. Correct?

Well this defeats the purpose of putting them on the DVD's in the first place. Might as well use the external HD for my back ups or burn to DVD during the creation of the back up. Not much point in moving them to DVD after they are on the external HD.

[DwnNdrty]

Originally Posted by Anthony A

OK so back up to external hard drive. Burn splits to DVD. When ready to restore copy DVD's back to external hard drive. Boot with rescue CD and restore back up from the external HD. The back up would have had to have been burned to the DVD during the back ups' creation in order to restore form the DVD's. Correct?

Well this defeats the purpose of putting them on the DVD's in the first place. Might as well use the external HD for my back ups or burn to DVD during the creation of the back up. Not much point in moving them to DVD after they are on the external HD.

Correct. The reason for burning to DVDs after making the backup initially to the external drive is only to have an extra level of security so-to-speak. It all depends on your comfort level.

[tuttle]

Originally Posted by Anthony A

Might as well use the external HD for my back ups or burn to DVD during the creation of the back up. Not much point in moving them to DVD after they are on the external HD.

Right! That's what we've been saying. External drives are now so inexpensive and so reliable, that there is no benefit to imaging to DVDs.

[semiclue]

Originally Posted by DwnNdrty

BTW, if you decide that you still want a backup on optical media, some users here use what is called the 2-step method. First make the Backup to a hard drive, external or internal, in splits that would fit on a dvd disk. Many use a 1492mb split as 3 of these fit on one disk with very little waste.

Then burn those splits to dvd using your favorite burning software. But to restore these, you have to put the splits back on to a hard drive.

I thought I read that you only have to put all the splits/DVD contents on a HDD together if you want to mount or extract files from a backup that is on DVDs (which requires the app to be installed); but that once booted with the rescue CD, a full restore can in fact be done from those DVDs that were burned with splits during the "two step" procedure..? Or could it be that that is only the case if they are burned in 4.7 GB splits (actually TI makes them 4.3 GB when you choose DVD-sized splits) using UDF? Would love to find out for sure!! This is the first I've heard of such a limitation.

Btw Anthony, I did what you seek to, backup using the TI combo install/boot CD only, no installation. Setting up each backup takes just seconds, very simple and not a hassle whatsoever. But -- when done from the CD, it does take longer for the backup to complete. However, that's no big deal either if you're expecting it, and are just a "lite"/occasional user (which I am too). And I doubt the chances are very high that if you buy a retail TI disc, you'll end up with one that isn't bootable as advertised.

[semiclue]

While it is faster and more reliable to restore by copying the DVDs/splits onto a HDD together first if possible, further reading here and elsewhere confirmed it is not technically required. For example:

http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing.../articles/481/

"If your archive spans over several discs and you wish to explore (mount) the image, you need to copy all volumes into a single folder on a local or networked hard disk drive.

You do not need to have all of the volumes of a multi-volume image residing within the same folder to validate or restore it. An image can be restored or validated even if it is spanned over several CD or DVD discs."

(I realize DVDs should not be the first-line or only medium employed for storing backups, but I'll want occasional sets for redundancy, off-site storage, etc.)

[DwnNdrty]

Originally Posted by semiclue

You do not need to have all of the volumes of a multi-volume image residing within the same folder to validate or restore it. An image can be restored or validated even if it is spanned over several CD or DVD discs."

What they have conveniently omitted here is the number of times you'll be swapping those disks in an out. The restore will call for each disk a number of times (and in no particular order, at least to the unsuspecting user)... and I presume the validation will do the same.

[Brian K]

Originally Posted by DwnNdrty

What they have conveniently omitted here is the number of times you'll be swapping those disks in an out.

I agree. I will NEVER again restore an image from optical media. Once was enough.

[semiclue]

Absolutely, this was not to say that performing any of those operations would be best or just as good or easy via DVDs. Only that it's best and actually less confusing in the long run to provide correct technical facts and answers (i.e., that technically it is not required to re-compile the DVD splits to HDD prior to restore), then add the opinions and caveats (i.e., how much better it is to recompile first whenever possible and why). No sense in having ppl believe that if their DVD set is all they have left for some reason, that they shouldn't even bother trying it; or that they must have misunderstood whatever materials they've already studied, which makes an already very frustrating subject even more frustrating, etc. etc.

[shieber]

Restoring from DVDs is generally possible with ATI but usually impractical and sometimes impossible. At a minimum, if more than 2 DVDs are involved, then the disk swapping will dirve a user nuts. And often, it seems, dvd restores fail. I strongly recommend against it for anyone if the backup required more than 2 disks. And I probably wouldn't recommend it for anyone with smaller back ups. Much better to get a spare or external harddisk. If the data is valuable them the hdisk is worth the cost -- they are quite inexpensive these days and although nothing to sneeze at represents only a tiny fraction of the total PC system cost. As of this wrting, you for about $80 you can get a 200GB hdisk that will fit in your shirt pocket

http://store.iomega.com/item?p=4760&...20080713_en_us

Physically large drives and smaller drives cost less.

[dougaross]

Originally Posted by shieber

As of this wrting, you for about $80 you can get a 200GB hdisk that will fit in your shirt pocket

http://store.iomega.com/item?p=4760&...20080713_en_us

Physically large drives and smaller drives cost less.

I though there was some concern about laptops being able to provide sufficient power to drives through the usb port. Possibly resulting in corrupt archives. In fact don't some drives use a split cable to get power from 2 ports.

[tuttle]

Originally Posted by dougaross

I though there was some concern about laptops being able to provide sufficient power to drives through the usb port. Possibly resulting in corrupt archives. In fact don't some drives use a split cable to get power from 2 ports.

Have you actually read much in these forums? You can't take a few failures out of the context. Yes, there are some reports that underpowered USB ports can cause backups to fail. You do need to ensure you use a fully-powered port. And yes, some external drives seem to need the double-plug cable to work.

But, you'll see lots of posts here about people using modern USB drives with just a single plug and making successful backups and restores. I use a WD Passport portable (2.5") drive via a single USB port on my nine-year-old Windows 98SE PC, and I can successfully image and restore. I also used to use a Datastor Pocketec on that old PC, again via a single USB port. I use a WD MyBook drive via a single USB port on a 3-year-old Dell laptop and a new Sony VAIO laptop.

Your USB drivers and drive-specific drivers can make a big difference. On my nine-year-old Windows 98SE PC, it was very slow creating images to the external drive and I occasionally had stalls and failures. I removed the Windows USB drivers and the USB drive manufacturer's drivers and replaced them with some third-party generic drivers from the open source community. Transfer speed immediatly improved dramatically, and there are now no stalls or failures.

External drives are, IMHO, a more convenient, faster, and more reliable means of creating images and restores than optical media.

[shieber]

Some laptops don't provide the appropriate current to USB ports --they don't follow the standard. For those cases, connecting to two ports doubles the available current. I don't think there are too many of those laptops around. Udnerpowered drives generally won't function worth a damn, not funciton with everything expect ATI.

I don't know of any case where power was the reason that ATI didn't function properly with a usb drive -- only the typical driver issues with the dreaded linux environment. Not saying it can't happen but if the drive works with everyting except ATI, then what needs to be fixed?

Originally Posted by dougaross

I though there was some concern about laptops being able to provide sufficient power to drives through the usb port. Possibly resulting in corrupt archives. In fact don't some drives use a split cable to get power from 2 ports.

[semiclue]

Speaking of that, have been meaning to look into causes of this: On three different machines (one desktop, two laptops, all recent and not low-end models), I often get that "High speed USB device plugged into non-high speed port" message when inserting a mere flash drive. Even tho the machine specs all claim USB 2.0. Does this likely mean I have power problems on all of them?

For one of the laptops, a new 12" Thinkpad X61 with no optical drive, I also have two new devices with second USB connectors for extra power if needed (and no option of AC power). One is an LG multi-burner, the other a Seagate FreeAgent Go external HD. I have three USB ports, so wouldn't have enough if both ever need two at once (and I hear USB hubs don't always work for this, or maybe that's mainly the non-powered ones). The optical drive has been reading ok on one plug; haven't tried burning with just one, nor using the FreeAgent with just one. But considering that even small flash drives frequently generate the "low speed" message, can I really feel assured of anything if both devices appear to function ok using a single port? Surely they must suck a lot more juice than flash drives...

(It's a bit unnerving being so dependent on USB with that laptop!)

[shieber]

Some laptops limit the current available at the usb ports so they can boast a better battery time. For these machines, you can use a cable like this:

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...1510&sku=28107

(I think Tigerdirect sells them for about half this price.)

or use an external power adapter for the drive.

If you can borrow a cable or power adapter, you can see if it makes a diff in how your usb performs. Usually, if there isn't enough power, the behavior is so erratic as to be obvious or it won't work at all.

[semiclue]

Thanks sheiber, but that's the kind of (Y) cable both these devices came with. And that's it, they can't be hooked up via AC as an alternate. I had wanted to get a portable HD that did offer both Y cable and AC connection options, but strangely, there just didn't seem to be any. At least not within the highly rated brands I wanted to stick to. It was fortunate that there were even ones like the Seagate FreeAgent Go, with a second USB connection, since I suspected chances were good I'd need that extra power.

Hmm, guess I better look into the root causes soon rather than wait til an emergency. Meanwhile, in case this means my USB is usually running slow, I guess I could start creating my TI backups on the internal HD first, then copying them over to the external (assuming that's ok. Both are NTFS). My TI backup to the external HD using the rescue CD took about 3 hours for 26 GB, tho most of that was the verification stage. (Maybe I should also start doing the verification in Windows instead.)