NoScript vs RequestPolicy vs Ghostery

[hello_there]

I'm just saying that organizations buying from Ghostery cannot (AFAIU) identify you from what they buy. What you quoted there is about principles, not practice.

[ghostery]

Hi Justenough,

We block similarly to AdBlock in many ways. The main difference isn't with the technical way page elements are blocked, it's with the lists, the extensions' options, Ghostery's company profiles (we have a privacy team that researches them) and with our interfaces. A lot of our users layer ABP and Ghostery. We definitely do "fight cookies." We used to actually have a "cookie protection option" in our FFX extension which would just nuke cookies, but we wound up just integrating it into regular blocking because we figured out how to make everything work/it was kind of confusing.

Also, this guy (Mike, not Schneier) is confusing our autoupdates (which are turned on by default) with ill-intended data collection. The only data that may "leak" during updates is any data that normally gets sent with any request. We don't look at that, or even care about it, and every extension that autoupdates does this.

As far as the data that people opt-in to submit to us, there's two topics here, from your comment:

I suppose companies could create some intense system from the tracker lists. They're all publicly available anyway. But they don't need to buy them - they can just look at ABP or Ghostery's DB. Both lists are user-submitted ours is just heavily vetted and maintained.

With the aggregate data (Ghostrank) that actually gets sold, we sell it to companies so they can monitor what tags are on their sites without their knowledge (often through redirects), we sell it to the BBB to help them monitor companies for privacy compliance, we create reports (http://purplebox.ghostery.com/?p=1016022235), and we just generally try to see what the heck is going on with trackers on the web. We're the first company to really get a handle on just how widespread and, in many cases, ridiculous the amount of web tracking is these days. Making the web transparent for all parties and giving them control over tracking is what we do.

Does this help?

Adam

[justenough]

Yes Adam, very helpful. I appreciate the clarity and thoroughness of your reply, thank you. If what you say is true, then Mike wasn't quite the expert he made himself out to be. I say 'if' because my security understanding doesn't go deeper than what others have taught me. For instance I can't take your code apart and see what's what. Or assume negative motives to what others are doing with the information you are collecting from Ghostery users. Your reply seems straightforward and complete, so I will go back to using Ghostery along with ABP, unless someone here at Wilders who knows more than I do about this stuff has some convincing rebuttal.

A side note, sometimes I am impressed with helpful attitude some developers can maintain when dealing with customers and their doubts and dissatisfaction.

[Pinga]

Interesting how Better Advertising/Evidon's mission has evolved:

2010

Online data collection and consumer privacy issues have increased pressure toward legislation and industry regulation by Congress and the US Federal Trade Commission. Better Advertising's technology is an innovative response to this pressure. It provides a level of transparency for the industry to obviate the need for regulation, ensuring both consumer privacy and ongoing brand protection for marketers - all of which will keep the interactive industry growing.

2012

Evidon reveals the invisible web.
Its technology gives brands, publishers and solutions providers around the world unique insight into the digital ecosystem—including unparalleled intelligence on the third-party technologies that underpin the commercial web—and the power to control its impact on their businesses.
That technology includes Ghostery®, Evidon’s browser tool that reports on data collection across 26 million websites and informs the company’s business control solutions. Evidon’s market-leading privacy solutions help companies comply with global privacy regulations by giving over 150 million people a day transparency and control over how their information is used online.
Clients make smarter decisions, protect their businesses and consumer privacy, and grow revenue as a result.

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewto...?f=7&t=1905935

http://www.evidon.com/about_us.html

[lordraiden]

Apart from the bla bla bla... do you have any real proof of all your conspiracies, suspicions and accusations over ghostery? please share it.

[Pinga]

Originally Posted by lordraiden

Apart from the bla bla bla... do you have any real proof of all your conspiracies, suspicions and accusations over ghostery? please share it.

Absolutely, I have referenced every fact. If you feel those are 'conspiracies, suspicions and accusations' - well, then it's your turn

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/search.php

[lordraiden]

Originally Posted by Pinga

Absolutely, I have referenced every fact. If you feel those are 'conspiracies, suspicions and accusations' - well, then it's your turn

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/search.php

So you have nothing,... you can find real arguments to dismantle your "staments" here: www.google.com

PD: Everybody knows how to play troll.

[Pinga]

That is not even an argument so I shall not comment it. If you search this forum for Better Advertising or Evidon you'll find plenty of information, plus links to the sources.

In the meantime, I stand by my argument that Better Advertising/Evidon cannot be trusted since their raison d'être is avoiding regulation and making profit, not protecting anyone's privacy.

[AMIGA500]

In a general sense that could apply to most software companies and not just ghostery.
What about noscript and adblock?
The list could go on and on.

[lordraiden]

Originally Posted by Pinga

That is not even an argument so I shall not comment it. If you search this forum for Better Advertising or Evidon you'll find plenty of information, plus links to the sources.

In the meantime, I stand by my argument that Better Advertising/Evidon cannot be trusted since their raison d'être is avoiding regulation and making profit, not protecting anyone's privacy.

Please show us your arguments and stop to behave as a troll.

Do they protect your privacy? yes
Do they make money with the stats of the trackers found? yes, it does not affect to your privacy and it's optional you can deactivate it
Regulation? jajajaja they don't do the rules, they don't have the power of regulate anything, any other conspiranoic idea?

I know the info that I can find in this forum about Evidon/Ghostery, but sadly for you this info does not prove anything, and has been contested several times by ghostery dismantling all the lies and conspiracies.

[Pinga]

Originally Posted by lordraiden

Please show us your arguments and stop to behave as a troll.

Name-calling does not add to your credibility, nor does it make people like you. Show us some evidence instead!

[lordraiden]

Originally Posted by Pinga

Name-calling does not add to your credibility, nor does it make people like you. Show us some evidence instead!

Jajaja Please could you answer to the entire post? removing from the quote the things that you can't answer only show how wrong you are.

Everybody here is still waiting the "irrefutable/not answered" proofs that you have make up. Since everything you have said have been dismounted in ghostery blog btw other sites.
If you don't have them don't make us lose our time. How can we answer to your lies if you don't even tell us where did they come from and where they are?

If you incriminate a company at least your should indicate in what are your statements based, is not the work of the others to proof YOUR accusation (unless you are a troll and you are playing with us)
It's like if I say that you are an assassin, a pederast or something..., everybody would require some kind of photo or proof. I hope you can understand how the things works.

Do they protect your privacy? yes
Do they make money with the stats of the trackers found? yes, it does not affect to your privacy and it's optional you can deactivate it
Regulation? jajajaja they don't do the rules, they don't have the power of regulate anything, any other conspiranoic idea?

I know the info that I can find in this forum about Evidon/Ghostery, but sadly for you this info does not prove anything, and has been contested several times by ghostery dismantling all the lies and conspiracies.

[Pinga]

I've researched Better Advertising/Evidon/Ghostery and posted some of what I've found here. Opinions and facts are clearly separated. Ghostery has responded:

Originally Posted by ghostery

Yeah, we sell the tracker data to various organizations.

and explained why it is doing what it's doing. Indeed there are several reasons why I don't like Ghostery: Posing as an open-source cutesy little something while being a commercial company with an agenda is one of them.

It is you who dumbs down the discussion by making random unsubstantiated claims. Again: Feel free to do your own research and post what you have found here. I look forward to a fruitful discussion.

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showp...9&postcount=18

[lordraiden]

Tracker data is not personal data, or data that can affect to your privacy in any way.
I don't see in their website that the are a NGO. Furthermore this is optional and comes disabled by default in the configuration.

Posing as an open-source cutesy little something while being a commercial company with an agenda is one of them.

Open source? what are you talking about?
What is wrong with this? it's illegal? are they lying somewhere? Men if you haven't read their website is not our problem. Everything you have said is public information, you haven't done any research or discover anything new.
BTW all the companies are commercial... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company

[focus]

@Pinga Ghostrank (data collection) is an option with Ghostery, I have seen no indication that they do not honor this opt out feature. All of the information you have referenced about them selling statistical data from those who opt in to using Ghostrank is not a secret, they are quite open about it IMO. If you have any information that they are not honoring the opt out commitment for data collection, that would be something I would like to know about.

[Pinga]

If you feel comfortable using Ghostery, by all means do so. But keep in mind that Ghostery's primary purpose appears to be avoiding industry regulation, not protecting your privacy.

Readers should keep in mind that Evidon, which purchased Ghostery in January 2010 when the company was still called The Better Advertising Project, has a vested interest in industry self-regulation of online tracking. Evidon believes if consumers know what information is being gathered about them and by whom, it will alleviate their fears about tracking. Evidon sells its data services and compliance tools to the Web tracking industry.
(...) If Web tracking got legislated out of existence (highly unlikely in my opinion), Evidon would go down with it.

http://www.itworld.com/it-management...cking-trackers

Starting in 2011, the Council of Better Business Bureaus (CBBB), a leading non-profit organization dedicated to advancing marketplace trust through self-regulation, along with the DMA, will be responsible for monitoring and enforcing compliance, as well as managing consumer complaint resolution. The CBBB and DMA expect to contract with the Better Advertising Project, (BAP), to provide its monitoring technology to report on companies’ adherence to the transparency and control provisions of the program.

“The advertising industry has a long history of strong, effective CBBB-administered self regulation of traditional media, and we look forward to applying these lessons to the dynamic new online advertising market. We also look forward to putting in place technology to monitor the marketplace and promote compliance with the program’s transparency and control principles,” said Lee Peeler, President and CEO of the National Advertising Review Council (NARC) and Executive Vice President, National Advertising Self-Regulation, Council of Better Business Bureaus (CBBB).

http://www.iab.net/about_the_iab/rec...ease/pr-100410

The leading trade associations for online marketing, including the IAB, are unified behind the program, and view it to be industry’s best hope to avoid draconian legislation and now ‘draconian DNT.’ We could still have a bill (several are circulating and more are expected). We could still have DNT. Avoiding both entirely may be a long shot. But what kind of bill? And will DNT allow responsible players to continue their businesses without massive disruption?

http://www.iab.net/iablog/2011/02/se...s-the-do-.html

But, make no mistake – we’ve got a very short period of time to show that the self-regulatory program can work. So, how should a company think about approaching compliance? Here’s a quick way to have the discussion internally if you are considering not embracing self-regulation because you are confused about how the program intersects with the noise around Do Not Track:

If self-regulation fails, we are pretty much guaranteed to get draconian legislation + draconian Do Not Track
If self-regulation succeeds, we likely get neither
If this ends in a compromise, all indications are that corporate leaders in the self-regulatory movement will be rewarded
If you want to influence the outcome, you must act now
The self-regulatory movement is about empowering the consumer; do right by the consumer and your brand will benefit (with or without a self-regulatory program)

It’s time to get on board with self-regulation and DNT is just the latest in a list of good reasons.

http://blog.evidon.com/2011/02/24/cu...lf-regulation/

[lordraiden]

Originally Posted by Pinga

If you feel comfortable using Ghostery, by all means do so. But keep in mind that Ghostery's primary purpose appears to be avoiding industry regulation, not protecting your privacy.


http://www.itworld.com/it-management...cking-trackers


http://www.iab.net/about_the_iab/rec...ease/pr-100410


http://www.iab.net/iablog/2011/02/se...s-the-do-.html


http://blog.evidon.com/2011/02/24/cu...lf-regulation/

Ghostery is avoiding the regulation? this is the biggest lie of all and totally lack of sense and arguments.

1) Ghostery does not have any means, power, authority or jurisdiction to regulate the advertising market.
2) And since they can't the only thing they do is offer a tool to block trackers.
3) By default is disabled but if the user want, he can collaborate optionally with antonym tracker info not related at all with the user privacy to finance Ghostery development which costs money.
4) DNT option added by the browsers has nothing to do with Ghostery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track

End of the story

[Pinga]

I'm afraid you misunderstood. The above post refers to Evidon, the company that bought Ghostery. Perhaps it makes more sense to you if you actually read the material

[Tong]

Originally Posted by Pinga

But keep in mind that Ghostery's primary purpose appears to be avoiding industry regulation, not protecting your privacy.

So I get better privacy and at the same time make a stand against regulation? That's awesome!

Turning GhostRank on right now.

[lordraiden]

Originally Posted by Pinga

I'm afraid you misunderstood. The above post refers to Evidon, the company that bought Ghostery. Perhaps it makes more sense to you if you actually read the material

I'm afraid you misunderstood. The thread refers to Ghostery. Perhaps it makes more sense to you if you actually read the thread title But please instead to answer the real questions with arguments continue making the troll and answering the first thing that comes to your mind.
"Ghostery is a product of Evidon..." congratulations! xD you have discover the americas.

Anyway:
Evidon is avoiding the regulation? this is the biggest lie of all and totally lack of sense and arguments.
1) Evidon does not have any means, power, authority or jurisdiction to regulate the advertising market.
So please don't make us lose our time.

[Pinga]

Originally Posted by lordraiden

But please instead to answer the real questions with arguments continue making the troll and answering the first thing that comes to your mind.

Evidon's business model, its attempts at influencing legislation and public opinion, as well as the impact of their Ghostery extension in terms of privacy and security are all highly relevant topics on this forum.

Your righteous tone, your lack of interest in a dialogue and your total disregard for both content and context suggest you are merely trying to derail the conversation for your own purposes.

If you are shouting at people online and refusing to have a dialogue, you're bullying. There are other opinions than yours on this particular subject - which is broader and more complex than you seem to comprehend.

I'm not fighting with you. And, quite frankly, more interested in continuing this debate in a constructive way.

[lordraiden]

Originally Posted by Pinga

Evidon's business model, its attempts at influencing legislation and public opinion, as well as the impact of their Ghostery extension in terms of privacy and security are all highly relevant topics on this forum.

Do you have any evidence of evidon influencing in the legislation?
What impact in security and privacy are you talking about? good, bad? in what sense?

[justenough]

Pinga, if you have any information that using Ghostery will somehow compromise security, I would be interested in seeing it.

Supposedly Ghostery and AdBlock Plus overlap in coverage. I am using Fanboy's Ultimate List, but I still get lots of blocked trackers in Ghostery, sometimes a long list of maybe 15. Wonder why AdBlock Plus isn't catching them?

[Pinga]

Originally Posted by justenough

Pinga, if you have any information that using Ghostery will somehow compromise security, I would be interested in seeing it.

It's a matter of trust really, and how you define security. NoTrace is an excellent Ghostery alternative without the side effects:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/notrace/

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=334346

[Pinga]

The State Of Evidon: Meyer on Regulation, Extending Into Performance and The Roadmap Ahead

Where we go over time, we’ll see. We’ve been selling the raw Ghostery panel data to some networks in other companies, for more than a year.

What I can say about revenues is that we grew substantially last year, and we are very well funded. We have very strong support from Warburg Pincus. Our revenue last year was in the millions, and the company should at least triple in revenues this year.

http://www.adexchanger.com/the-state-of/evidon-2/