Oracle/Google settlement talks fail, Java patent trial to start April 16

Source.

Originally Posted by Ars

....."Despite their diligent efforts and those of their able counsel, the parties have reached an irreconcilable impasse in their settlement discussions," Judge Paul Grewal of US District Court for the Northern California wrote Monday. "No further conferences shall be convened. The parties should instead direct their entire attention to the preparation of their trial presentations." ....Oracle alleges that Google violated Java patents and copyrights in developing the Android operating system..... Google proposed a damages payment to Oracle of $2.8 million........ Oracle rejected the offer as being too low........ Oracle wants hundreds of millions of dollars in damages.

Read more: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...t-april-16.ars

[Cudni]

To paraphrase: it is all business

[vasa1]

Any links to sites that report in detail?
Here's one on the jury: http://venturebeat.com/2012/04/16/oracle-google-jury/

The final jury includes five men and seven women from a diverse range of professions. The decision makers for this landmark case on programming language copyright include a plumber, a nurse, a retired photographer, a store designer for Gap, a city bus driver, and a postal worker.

This is an extremely complicated matter coming into the courtroom — one that involves the intricacies of patent law, the mind-boggling complexities of mobile programming, the quagmire that is open-source software litigation, and the he-said-she-said nature of any discussion about and between two tech companies. The naiveté of the jurors in such matters might strike some as a disadvantage to all parties involved, but these San Franciscans are bring something better than sophistication and experience to their deliberations: fresh eyes and (hopefully) common sense.

[vasa1]

And this one is leaning one way, IMO, but here's the link:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...20416085550303

[vasa1]

How to escape jury duty:

JA: Have any of you heard the phrase "Open Source Software"? 4 of the 18 had and were asked about what they knew about it. [All were later dismissed.]

(JA's the judge.)

[vasa1]

Hmmm... I was hoping more members would post here

Specifically, is there any other site like Groklaw but with a different perspective?

[JRViejo]

In a nutshell, if the jury sides with Oracle that the copyrights in the headers of every file of the Java source base apply specifically to the syntax of the APIs, then Oracle can extract payment and penalties from Google for having implemented those APIs without Oracle's blessing (or, in more specific terms, without a license).

Should this come to pass, numerous products will suddenly find themselves on an uncertain legal standing in which the previously benign but now newly empowered copyright holders might assert punitive copyright claims. Chief among these would be any re-implementation of an existing language. So, Jython, IronPython, and PyPy for Python; JRuby, IronRuby, and Rubinius for Ruby; Mono for C# and VB; possibly C++ for C, GCC for C and C++ and Objective-C; and so forth. And of course, all the various browsers that use JavaScript might owe royalties to the acquirers of Netscape's intellectual property.

Oracle and the End of Programming As We Know It by Andrew Binstock.

[vasa1]

For Oracle to win, all 12 jurors must agree that Oracle proved its case by a "preponderance of the evidence," or by most of the evidence presented at trial.

http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/j...-fair-use.html

[vasa1]

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise...oracle-google/

Informative ^^^

[Dermot7]

A jury has ruled that Google infringed on Oracle’s copyrights in building a new version of the Java platform for its Android mobile operating system, but it was unable to reach a decision on whether this infringement was acceptable under the law.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise...oogle-verdict/

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...r-mistrial.ars

[vasa1]

Pity. I hope Google takes steps in future to secure itself, and those who are associated with it, against such misadventures. Anyway, diehards are still hoping that the judge may go the European way.

Originally Posted by vasa1

Anyway, diehards are still hoping that the judge may go the European way.

The diehards are the Google fanboys which don't appreciate justice. Keep crying.

[tgell]

This will just work it's way through the courts, probably all the way to the Supreme Court and it will take years. Appeals are guaranteed.

Originally Posted by guest

The diehards are the Google fanboys which don't appreciate justice. Keep crying.

I have no love for Google, but I'm thinking this might be a bad decision. The ability to limit other people's use of an idea - not an implementation of an idea, but an idea - is IMO poison for any sort of innovation. What are the repercussions? Is this going to hurt independent developers in the long run?

Also, I have to ask if the idea of patenting a language makes sense to you. It doesn't make sense to me. Things composed of human-readable characters, with publicly available documentation, should IMHO not be any more patentable than English is.

[Hungry Man]

Originally Posted by guest

The diehards are the Google fanboys which don't appreciate justice. Keep crying.

Oh, if only this were Oracle v Microsoft! lol

I don't care much about this trial and haven't read about it. I honestly just want Oracle to lose because it is flat out the most backwards tech company and everyone pretty much agrees on that.

[xxJackxx]

Originally Posted by Hungry Man

..I honestly just want Oracle to lose...

I want them to lose for multiple reasons. And I am no fan of Google so that isn't one of them.

[vasa1]

Whether or not one is a Google fanboi, the fact is, for now, that Google is not buckling unlike various other players who make secret agreements or accept money to withdraw litigation. The software industry should welcome the judicial clarity that will ultimately emerge, whether it is to Google's detriment or otherwise.

HAHAHA what a load of bs, you're trying to paint Google as an angel against the evil patent system.

Google tried to "buckle" (lol), it just failed at it. Google proposed a damages payment to Oracle of $2.8 million. Oracle rejected.

Ultimately, even Google knows it is guilty.

[vasa1]

Pardon the bad pun, but it looks like the "Oracle" has spoken!

No, one doesn't need to be an oracle to understand what's going on here. Common sense is all you need, plus a little bit of honesty and less idiotic feelings for certain companies and causes.

[Dermot7]

Google is seeking a new trial on copyright claims in Oracle's intellectual-property lawsuit over the Android mobile OS, according to a filing made late Tuesday in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California.

https://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...?taxonomyId=17

[Hungry Man]

Originally Posted by guest

HAHAHA what a load of bs, you're trying to paint Google as an angel against the evil patent system.

Google tried to "buckle" (lol), it just failed at it. Google proposed a damages payment to Oracle of $2.8 million. Oracle rejected.

Ultimately, even Google knows it is guilty.

Woah... let's not mix up a settlement with an admission of guilt. Companies pay out settlements all of the time because they're cheaper and it usually just appeases the other party ("I tripped on your sidewalk give me money!" *giant company drops a penny in a bucket*) and I don't think anyone is trying to paint Google as an angel.

People have disliked the patent system for longer than Google's been around. People have hated Oracle for as long as it's been around.

If Google didn't consider itself guilty of something, it wouldn't offer Oracle $2.8 million in damages.

The way you put it, whenever a company claim some violation by Google, Google pay them. This is a ridiculous supposition.

vasa1 tried to paint google as an angel when she/he said this bs: "Google is not buckling unlike various other players who make secret agreements or accept money to withdraw litigation."

This is an obvious, flagrant, ridiculous lie. Google tried to do that, but failed.

As for the patent system, I doubt it will change in a court. This is something for congress to discuss. A court applies/analyses the existing law.

[Hungry Man]

If Google didn't consider itself guilty of something, it wouldn't offer Oracle $2.8 million in damages.

Right, this here is completely false. Companies pay settlements all the time because it's cheap and quick.

The way you put it, whenever a company claim some violation by Google, Google pay them. This is a ridiculous supposition.

Not really. This happens to large companies all the time. Settling is usually the simplest way to resolve something.

By the way...

I don't think you understand the implications or the content of this trial. This is not a simple patent case, this would set a precedent (and that IS something for the courts) on patenting APIs/ copywriting interfaces, which would be a bad thing for everyone (not that Oracle cares because, again, they are very often considered the worst company in their field.)

That's not so much an attempt to insult you as it is to ground you. Understand what this trial is.

[vasa1]

Originally Posted by Hungry Man

...
That's not so much an attempt to insult you as it is to ground you. Understand what this trial is.

You're wasting your time. Again