The legality of PGS (Pretty Good Security), infinite rearms and other windows tools

Originally Posted by MrBrian

Thought experiment:
Let's suppose Microsoft foolishly determined the Windows version by reading a single registry value -1=Home, 2=Professional, etc. - and that everything else is exactly the same upon installation of any version, except for this one registry value. Let's suppose that Windows checks this registry value in determining what features are allowed, what user interface elements are shown, etc. Would one be legally entitled to upgrade one's Windows version by changing this registry value?

That is an excellent point However, I do support Sully's noble efforts with his security applications, because he's making changes that yield a more secure platform.

[wearetheborg]

There is also the 1 year rearm trick which involves changing just one registery value (inside windows), to allow rearming for 1 year:
http://www.askvg.com/how-to-use-wind...out-activation

[Kees1958]

Originally Posted by wearetheborg

Where can I find this publishing?

I am on holiday in Nha Trang right now (the torromolinos of Vietnam ), so can't give you the link but the micosoft development newtwork webpages reveal enough.

[Sully]

We shall know within 24hours if you can believe them.

Sul.

[Kees1958]

Originally Posted by The Microsoft Computer Dictionary

A central hierarchical database used in Microsoft Windows 98, Windows CE, Windows NT, and Windows 2000 used to store information that is necessary to configure the system for one or more users, applications and hardware devices.

The Registry contains information that Windows continually references during operation, such as profiles for each user, the applications installed on the computer and the types of documents that each can create, property sheet settings for folders and application icons, what hardware exists on the system, and the ports that are being used.

Configuration files = external steering table (in legal context). These do not fall under the copy righted intellectual property, unless deposited with the code at the time of intellectual property request. When steering or configuration tables are also placed under intellectual property, the applier has to make proper arrangements to protect them from being changed in an un lawfull matter.

As far as I know, providing a registry editor with the instalation disk, is allowing a user to make changes themselves, whatever the change. So in regard to registry changes the EULA is a non-issue, since the compiled code is not changed.

Regards Kees

[MrBrian]

Originally Posted by Kees1958

Configuration files = external steering table (in legal context). These do not fall under the copy righted intellectual property, unless deposited with the code at the time of intellectual property request. When steering or configuration tables are also placed under intellectual property, the applier has to make proper arrangements to protect them from being changed in an un lawfull matter.

As far as I know, providing a registry editor with the instalation disk, is allowing a user to make changes themselves, whatever the change. So in regard to registry changes the EULA is a non-issue, since the compiled code is not changed.

If one is using a pirated version of XP, is one allowed to use regedit to change the product key - which is stored encrypted in the registry - to a legit product key?

[Kees1958]

Originally Posted by MrBrian

If one is using a pirated version of XP, is one allowed to use regedit to change the product key - which is stored encrypted in the registry - to a legit product key?

Haha sharp debater,

You are not allowed to use the pirated version


I had a scratched CD once, installed with the corporate one and used my ligitemate lisence key. Strictly Microsoft required me to buy a fresh copy, when I phoned them for a new CD. So while there is no breach of pirating, the original CD was for personal use. Microsoft issues EULA's which do not hold in other jurisdictional regions (such as EU).
Personally I have experienced that software is a difficult legal area. My company once provided a banking corporation a new front office. The company who had provided the workflow software went bankrupt (which was a part of the total package). Allthough the banking corporation had bought all database, workflow licenses themselves, we were forced to produce new middleware free of charge when the bank bought a new workflow package. In business for instance there is a special instance where companies now have to deposite the source code (this was a big issues between Microsoft and the UE) in case they go bankrupt. This to protect the banking corporation in the example given.


There is some legislation with conflicting judgements. So I think a lot of software companies have bully like EULA's mostly to protect them from pirating and bit-for-bit patching. This to freighten off individuals.

In Europe the law's are not harmonized on a lot of things: Anglo American laws tend to protect property & rights, while continental Europe legislation is more directed to protecting rights & people. So it is a grey area. The only value left in a bankrupt software company is the source code. To allow a phoenix rise (e.g. management buyout or venture capitalist) a software company in the US has more chances after a bankruptancy than in the EU.

[wearetheborg]

Originally Posted by MrBrian

If one is using a pirated version of XP, is one allowed to use regedit to change the product key - which is stored encrypted in the registry - to a legit product key?

If you have a legit XP key, why would you use a pirated version?

Kees1958, so you cannot use a different physical CD to install using your legit XP key? At least in Win7/Vista MS provides free OS downloads.

From this discussion, I am seeing infinite rearms to be legal (at least if done from inside wn 7 itself, and just starting stopping some services and changinig the registry). Pirating is conceptually very different; there is nothing inside the OS which helps you get a key.

[Sully]

As I said, in supposedly 24 hours the answer will be known. I don't think so with the holiday weekend, but we shall see soon enough.

Sul.

[wearetheborg]

Originally Posted by Sully

As I said, in supposedly 24 hours the answer will be known. I don't think so with the holiday weekend, but we shall see soon enough.

Sul.

What answer? And whats with the 24 hrs?

[Sully]

Originally Posted by wearetheborg

What answer? And whats with the 24 hrs?

I don't like not having an answer. Can you or can't you? So I am going to find out - from the horses mouth, as it were. Amazingly enough, you cannot even find the right place to ask this sort of question (not suprising). So I did what is called an "end run" and bet that I will have some sort of reply by the time the holiday weekend is over.

Then I (we) will know. With luck. 24hrs is supposed to be the turn-around time.

Sul.

[wearetheborg]

Originally Posted by Sully

So I did what is called an "end run" and bet that I will have some sort of reply by the time the holiday weekend is over.

Then I (we) will know. With luck. 24hrs is supposed to be the turn-around time.

Sul.

Ah, cool. What is an "end run"? And where do we ask such questions?

I'm now apprehensive that some uninformed idiot at MS will say "No, PGS is not legal" (when it is), just to be safe; and that will ~ Snipped as per TOS ~ into leaving PGS and MS forever

I should not have picked PGS as the example. Stupid me

[m00nbl00d]

No software developer cares if you download the "so-called" pirated versions. You can do it, and then just buy the damn license.
They care about the license. If you pay for it, all is great!
The license is what actually says that xyz software is legit. Not where you got it from.

Download some paid software from some warez site, etc and they buy the license. It will work. Why? It's legit. Period.

[dw426]

Originally Posted by wearetheborg

I'm now apprehensive that some uninformed idiot at MS will say "No, PGS is not legal" (when it is), just to be safe; and that will ~ Snipped as per TOS ~ into leaving PGS and MS forever I should not have picked PGS as the example. Stupid me

And you shall be labeled a rat forevermore! I'm kidding, lol. Don't worry too much over it. Sometimes though, you need to be careful which can of worms you open. Who did you email anyway? You may have said already, I didn't catch it. If it was customer service, you're either going to get "The EULA is the EULA, follow it." type of answer or "We here at customer service cannot help with legal issues (meaning they don't know and don't give a crap), so we have forwarded your inquiry to our technical service department who will contact you in 24-48 hours" (meaning you're about to get the run around AND very likely get either an I don't know answer or a wrong answer).

If you sent it to technical service, their answers will vary on how you phrased the question first of all. If you spoke of technical modifying and such things, you may get a "that's NOT legal, you can't modify code" yada yada yada. If you told them the exact truth, that PGS is simply a GUI for an already existing, but hidden function, the answer may differ. They may see that as perfectly fine, or, they may not know at all. These are the guys that are likely to give you less trouble. They have other things to do beside go over legal issues. They aren't getting paid 7 bucks an hour to deal with phones and irate customers, so they won't just say anything to shut you up or ignore you, like customer service will. Nor do they have law degrees and will want to line by line examine your question. They'll go with what sounds reasonable (a GUI for an existing function is reasonable) and send you on your way.


Then, we have that last option, one I HOPE you didn't use. Sending it to the legal department. This would be where that whole issue of branding you a rat would come in at, in case you wondered Seriously, these are going to be the "No matter what you say, we say no" guys. This is the legal department of a HUGE world-wide corporation that is responsible for the content of the post earlier in this thread about a past court case with the EU. The department who had the nerve to tell a judge "You DID tell us to send out a broken product". These guys are going to say and do whatever they can to protect every last line of that EULA and the code of all of Microsofts products. Any hope for an answer other than "It isn't legal, cease and desist", is futile (See what I did there? Brought up Star Trek again, hehe).

This will hopefully teach you to leave well enough alone, lol. Sometimes curiosity kills the cat (no, that isn't a threat, lol, some of us will just send you to the time out room with a little dunce cap).

[MrBrian]

Originally Posted by wearetheborg

If you have a legit XP key, why would you use a pirated version?

I meant if someone using a pirated version found a legit encrypted key online, or "borrowed" one from a friend's machine.

[dw426]

Originally Posted by MrBrian

I meant if someone using a pirated version found a legit encrypted key online, or "borrowed" one from a friend's machine.

I don't think you can "borrow" from a friend. Windows has that whole issue with different hardware throwing off red flags and making you have to call up to tell MS.

[wearetheborg]

Originally Posted by dw426

.
This will hopefully teach you to leave well enough alone, lol. Sometimes curiosity kills the cat (no, that isn't a threat, lol, some of us will just send you to the time out room with a little dunce cap).

I didnt contact MS, Sully did...but I know I'm gonna have to wear the dunce cap

[dw426]

Originally Posted by wearetheborg

I didnt contact MS, Sully did...but I know I'm gonna have to wear the dunce cap

Sully! Bad, respected Wilders member, bad! *smacks Sully's hand* If this ends up killing your new project, I may cry, lol.

[Sully]

You guys need to take off your aluminum hats for a minute lol. Do you think I am daft enough to compromise everything?

I gave details that show their documentation explaining the matter for 'windows xp' with no mention of 'home' or 'pro'. I asked, is it legal for me to manually or to script the creation of those keys, because the EULA has no clear example and their documentation appears to ignore versions.

Debating and speculating is not enough for this topic. M$ makes the EULA ambiguous on purpose. I think they shall give me an answer on this, as theory and conjecture cannot provide the correct answer. And whatever they send me, will be archived and used as my defense if the need ever arises. That is the point of this. It is not my responsibility to research the answer they give me, it is theirs.

Sul.

[MrBrian]

From a PC World article about the rearm registry change - I won't link to it:

Microsoft promptly labeled the registry change a "hack," a loaded word that is usually synonymous with "illegal."

[wearetheborg]

Originally Posted by MrBrian

From a PC World article about the rearm registry change - I won't link to it:

Ah, that was the article I was looking for (for rearms upto 360 days):
http://www.pcworld.com/article/12989...or_a_year.html

"This is not a hack," Livingston shot back when Lazar's e-mail was read to him. "This is a documented feature of the operating system." To back up his view, Livingston pointed out links to online support documents where Microsoft spells out the pertinent registry key. Nor is it speculative; Livingston demonstrated the procedure live via a Web conference session Thursday and claimed "we have run this dozens of times."

[Sully]

Seems that M$ just wants to refer to some articles on how to implement SRP, what SRP is and to refer to thier forums for the answer. Since I know the forum is made up of many knowledgable people, but they cannot give such an answer, I will take it that they don't know and cannot be bothered to find out.

PGS was developed by me so that I could have a better interface to SRP than the idiotic snap-in provides. I developed it on XP Professional and Vista Ultimate, and this is the target. If the settings that work on Pro and Ultimate versions also work on other versions, perhaps M$ should fix it so that does not happen. I cannot fix it, I can only make a tool to use on the versions I use.

Sul.

[wearetheborg]

*Breathes a sigh of relief*