Vista: Are there issues with the disk ID?

[K0LO]

Alexandre:

Your problems 1) and 2) are actually the same issue. Your PC's hardware is not supported in the Linux recovery environment. To resolve this you should log into your account on the Acronis web site and file a trouble report. Often Acronis will be able to point you to driver files that will work with your hardware.

Problem 3) was a one-time event. Per the other postings in this thread, it occurs because your Vista installation as delivered started at an offset of 2048 sectors, and when you restored your image file, TrueImage relocated the start of the partition to an offset of 63 sectors. The 63 sector offset has been the standard for many years and now Vista is doing things differently. Now that you have restored the Vista partition with TrueImage and have done a repair, you can restore as often as you like and you should never see the "winload.exe is missing..." error message again.

[Brian K]

I’m not a Vista user but I have read this thread and my head is still spinning. Forgive me if the answer is obvious but let me describe a scenario. You have a new HD and you partition the HD with DD and then install Vista into the first partition. You create a partition image of the C: drive with TI 10. When you restore this image will Vista boot without needing a repair?

[MudCrab]

Brian,

That is correct. If the partition is created with DD or with XP (or another partitioning program that creates "standard" offset partitions), you won't have to run Vista repair after restoring the Vista partition.

If you create the partition with Vista, then you will have to run Vista repair after the restore. Once the repair is run, further backups and restores will not require a repair since TI has already "moved" the partition back to the "standard" position. When you then do another restore, the partition ends up in the same place and Vista doesn't have a problem.

[Tabvla]

Hi All,

I still have serious reservations as to the way in which Acronis implemented the solution for Vista. It is difficult to comprehend the reasoning behind changing the default Vista offset to the so-called "standard" offset.

My personal view (and I may be completely wrong ) is that Acronis engineers have not fully understood the underlying structure changes that were implemented by Microsoft in Vista.

Therefore, it seems as if "TI10 Vista Compatible" was in fact nothing more than TI9 with some additional "bells & whistles". I have a very strong suspicion that if one could look at the underlying code - those bits of the code that do the really difficult stuff - one would find very little difference between the code-base of TI9 and TI10.

I am still of the opinion that TI10 is not in the true sense of the word "Vista Compatible". For those of us who are technical this is not a big problem, but the vast majority of Acronis customers are non-technical and rightly expect the software to work as advertised.

If Acronis engineers prove my assumptions wrong then I willl publically apologise.

T.

[Menorcaman]

Originally Posted by Acronis Support

Hello everyone,

Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

We are sorry for the delayed response.

Please be aware that there are several cases in which one should use Windows Vista DVD to perform Startup Repair after image restoration/cloning process. We are aware of this issue and Acronis Development Team is working on it. We are now closer to resolving the problem.

Note that some of the issues were already fixed and we will do our best in order to provide you with a new build of the particular version of Acronis True Image, which contains the fix as soon as possible. I'm sorry, but at the moment the exact time-frame for that is not set yet.

Please accept our apologies for the current inconvenience and once again, thank you for your assistance and understanding.
--
Aleksandr Isakov

Hello Aleksandr/Acronis Support,

It's been 3 months now since the above statement was made. Are you able to provide an update on what's happening?

Regards

Menorcaman

[MudCrab]

Originally Posted by Tabvla

I still have serious reservations as to the way in which Acronis implemented the solution for Vista. It is difficult to comprehend the reasoning behind changing the default Vista offset to the so-called "standard" offset.
<snip>
I am still of the opinion that TI10 is not in the true sense of the word "Vista Compatible". For those of us who are technical this is not a big problem, but the vast majority of Acronis customers are non-technical and rightly expect the software to work as advertised.

I agree. How can TI 10 be "Vista Compatible" when it can't even restore a partition created by Vista correctly? Also, what sense does it make to "move" the partition anyway? The system is expecting it to be at the location that it created it in. Acronis could have saved themselves and a lot of users a ton of problems by making TI restore "Vista" partitions back to the way they were when Vista created them.

To me, this problem goes hand-in-hand with the "partition table order change" problem. There is no reason for it. All it does is create further problems.

I also have the feeling that this problem has already been solved by Acronis, but they have not released an update. At the rate they're going, TI 11 will be out (and have the Vista fixes) and TI 10 users will still have to wait another three months after that before the final (and hopefully) "fixed" build of TI 10 is released (perhaps after much pressure as in the case of the final TI 9 build).

I'm of the opinion that major problems (like this one) should be addressed immediately and an update should be released immediately, even if that is the ONLY problem fixed in the update. Release it as a "beta" if they want to, that's fine with me. I'd rather just have it work correctly. Telling people to "just run Vista Repair" to fix the problem they created is not a solution.

Acronis Support: Hopefully, you'll stick to what you've stated in previous posts and the change log will be DETAILED. We want to know what was fixed and what changes were made. The way you list the change log now, you might as well not even post it. You might just as well say "this is build 5,102" and leave it at that.

[Brian K]

MudCrab, another scenario. You have Vista installed in a Vista created partition with a 2048 sector offset. You image the Vista partition with TI 10 and then restore the image. You find that Vista doesn't boot. Can you avoid a repair by using the BCD Edit tool of BING?

[MudCrab]

Yes. I've done this before. It just takes a couple seconds to do. It's really just updating the BCD file that Vista Repair is doing.

[alexmelo]

Mark,
Thanks for reassuring me about problem 3) [the need to repair Vista only happens in the first recover - but it scared me! I thought I was going to lose my installation or my HD!]. However, for my problems 1) (TI doesn't work at all from within Vista to make a recover) and 2) [can't use TI10 in Full version when booting from the CD made with Media Builder - only in Safe version] prevents me from doing a most desirable thing for someone who has a notebook: changing to a bigger HD. This is so, because I'll not be able to clone my old HD to a new bigger HD in a USB case, temporary, for later swapping them. Simply, because TI requires a boot to clone and in Safe Version it doesn't see USB!
So, I am limited to: booting from CD and using Safe Version only. This is true for me with TI10 and DDSuite 10, which I also bought. (Both work only in Safe Version). Best regards, Alexandre.

[Brian K]

alexmelo,

When you want to upgrade to a larger HD you could do it this way. Have the new HD in your USB enclosure. Divide it into two partitions (or more). Image your OS to the second partition on the new HD. Remove the old HD and replace it with the new HD. Boot to the Acronis TI CD and restore the image to the first partition. No USB problems with this method.

[GroverH]

Hi Brain,
In your suggestion to alexmelo, does it matter what software ( Vista or ATI Manage Hard Disk option) is used to create the new partitions?

[Brian K]

GroverH,

Good point. I'm not certain. Anyone?

[K0LO]

Alexandre:

Contact Acronis about Linux drivers for your hardware by filing a support request on their website. If they can provide the correct drivers for you then you can use TI in Full mode. Don't forget to ask about DiskDirector drivers too.

Or, you can use Brian's method. The backup is done while running Windows and the restore is done from the safe-mode version of the Acronis Recovery CD. Very clever.

Brian/Grover:

I don't think it will matter because ATI first deletes any existing partition before it restores an image.

[Brian K]

Originally Posted by k0lo

Very clever.

I copied the technique from Dan Goodell.

[alexmelo]

Brian K,
Thanks, this solution can allow me to "clone" my old HD to a new one, using a previously made image. It's USB independent.

Grover H,
About your question, from what I've read here, (and I am not an expert), I understand that if you prepare (partition) the new HD in the external USB case with Vista, you'll have to repair Windows when you recover the image (presumably one time only, because of that problem "2048 sector offset vs the 63 sector offset" discussed here in this forum. This repair is scary!

Mark,
Yes, I am exchanging emails with Acronis support. I did this the same day I purchased the products, because I immediatly found that Full Version doesn't work. They are trying, I've made a lot of experiments following their instructions, they sent ISO images for me to make CDs, I've taken photos of messages on my screen to send to them, after changing a few commands, as instructed by them, but no solution yet.
Thanks, regards, Alexandre

[probedrone]

Hello All,
First time poster here, wondering if anyone is still following this thread.

Anyway I encountered the same problem with TI10 and Vista 64bit.

I installed vista and did a image, and then loaded the image to verify if it works. Voila! the great winload.exe error pops up. I built my own computer so I have the vista repair cd ready, so I popped it in and did the repair. Annoying yes but I didnt think too much of it.

I then proceeded to install some software, and made another image along the way. A screwed up folder protection app locked a bunch of my data so I did another recover with that 2nd image. Once again I needed to do the vista cd repair...

After reading this thread I was puzzled because it seems like after u do the repair futures restores dont have anymore problems, yet I was still getting the winload.exe error.

Now my new ATI gfx card came into the mix. Got myself the HD2900XT and guess what? The new catalyst drivers takes my comp into a BSOD and it fails to boot. Talked to the ATI support with no solutions, so I wanted to experiment if installing the drivers on a fresh install would work. I once again did a recover with TI10 using the second image I created. Once again I was asked to repair vista but this time IT WONT DETECT THE VISTA REPAIR CD! I changed the boot sequence in my BIOS to CDdrive1, CDdrive2, then HD, but the vista repair keeps failing to load and I just get the winload.exe error instead. Same result when I pressed F11 at startup and manually choose the drive to boot...

This left me baffled and frustrated. I popped in the Acronis CD just to see if my boot sequence is broken but it detected the cd just fine. (Ironically thats what killed my comp in the first place).

Finally I removed the drive, loaded it into my old XP computer, backed up the files in the 2nd partition, and formatted it. This time when I put the drive back, with no data on the HD to load, the vista CD booted up and I was able to install vista again. (Another funny thing. Installed the gfx drivers on the fresh install and STILL gave me bsod. so yea again I reinstalled vista...sigh...)

So now the only things I have on the computer is vista, antivirus, and acronis TI10. Any advise on what I should do next?

For you tech-people, have you guys experienced the vista cd not booting up? I was really worried there and thought my BIOS broke or something.

I want to make an image at this point but too scared to use TI to do so right now. Any advice would be great...

Sorry about the long post. Hope this helps with the research, if anyone is still doing them.

[MudCrab]

probedrone,

You don't specify if the restore you did AFTER the repair was an Entire Disk Restore or just the Partition.

If you restore just the Partition a non-repaired Vista Install then you will have to run Vista repair after the restore.

Restoring the entire disk image (the Disk # checkbox is checked) normally restores Vista without needing a repair.

If the scenario was different that this, please post back with the specific methods you used. Perhaps Vista 64-bit behaves differently.

[probedrone]

hey thanks for the fast replay.

In all my cases I did the partition restore, not the full disk restore. (Backup was also partition only, since I use a 500GB disc with other partitions)

I want to avoid restoring my entire disc, so it seems like the only way to do a successful partition restore is to:
1. create partition backup, repair, create another backup
2. partition the disc with my winXP or some other software and install vista, then backup

Am I right so far?

Also should I worry about the boot sequence problem? I have not tried to load the vista repair disk again after the fresh install. It seems like someone in the thread (from a long time ago) had a similar problem.

[MudCrab]

After you have run Vista Repair on the restored partition, you should not have to run it again. If you make another backup of the Vista partition and then restore that it should be okay. If I remember correctly, in my tests, once the partition was "repaired" you could restore the original "unrepaired" partition image again and it would be okay since TI would put it back the same way as before. However, creating another backup of the partition after the repair is what I would recommend.

From an install standpoint... creating the partition for Vista using XP or Acronis Disk Director (or another standard partitioning program) will avoid the problem. I usually let Vista (and XP, for that matter) go ahead and format the partition during the install process.

Hopefully, Acronis will have this fixed in the next build of 10 and in TI 11.

I have never had any problems booting from my Vista DVDs so I don't know where that problem came from. You should always be able to boot from the DVD assuming the computer is working properly and the DVD is intact.

[probedrone]

Originally Posted by mustang

Thanks McTavish for that link.

Now that we know that Vista is using a new format to create NTFS partitions, caution should be advised. I think the safest practice would de to do full disk backups. I don't have much time to research the new standards and come up with all the procedures on how they will impact imaging/restores with TI10. It would be nice to here from some of the users of this forum with OEM machines that came with Vista pre-installed. Are you able to restore only the system partition without running into the missing winload.exe error?

In my last post I mentioned that I would try backing and restoring a Vista created partition in the first slot on the drive using HDM 8.5. We already know that restoring only the system partition using TI10 requires a Startup Repair to get Vista working. I wanted to see what would happen using HDM 8.5 in this situation. It turned out to be much worse. After the restore, I had a disk that would not boot in any way. The system froze during the initial post. It got as for as looking at the Vista HDD and reported SMART status was OK. That was it. No way to even boot from a floppy or CD/DVD with the drive attached. I couldn't even enter the BIOS setup. I had to remove the data cable from the drive to get past the initial post. I put the Maxtor diagnostic floppy in and booted. Just as I got past the post, I plugged the data cable back into the drive. The drive was detected and I did a low-level format to make the drive usable again. That was late last night and I was tired. I should have booted from the Vista install disk with the plugin on the fly method to see if a Startup Repair could fix the problem. I may do that later.

To BrianK or RAD,

Is there any feedback in the RAD forum on how Ghost 12 Beta is handling this situation?

Theres the quote from mustang that for some reason his vista cd wont boot...
Different situation for me though, since I didnt use HDM to do the partition. Could it be that the HD2900XT video card can interfere with the boot sequence? seems very unlikely but it seems that the cd loading problem started after I put in that card.
Any feedback on that?

[Brian K]

probedrone,

I don't know if this is relevant but a member in the Radified forum found he could no longer boot to the Vista CD (or Ghost 12 CD). He could boot to all other CDs. It was a laptop with two HDs. When he removed the second HD, the Vista CD booted. We are still waiting on the answer from Toshiba. They have replaced his motherboard but he hasn't received his laptop yet.

So perhaps your video card is relevant.

[MudCrab]

probedrone,

My comment on this would be that if mustang said that's what happened, then that's what happened. He's done a lot of work and a lot of testing so he knows what he's talking about.

That being said, I think the particular situation is probably quite rare. In both cases the solution was to remove the drive (you physically moved it to another computer and mustang plugged it in later) to allow the system to boot.

I can only guess that the drive is left in a state that is either confusing the BIOS or Vista trying to boot from the DVD. Perhaps the DVD doesn't see the corrupted hard drive and just aborts making the boot sequence drop to the next device. In this case, the corrupted hard drive.

[probedrone]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll try to work on it more today after I get home. Hopefully I dont have to return my gfx card.

Also, does symantec ghost 12 have this winload.exe problem? My friend got a copy and I was wondering if I should give that a try and get a copy of my own if it works.

Really like Acronis but I can't work with this problem in the way.

This is what the Acronis staff had to say about this problem in March...

Originally Posted by Acronis Support

Hello everyone,

Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

We are sorry for the delayed response.

Would like to let you know the latest build 4940 of Acronis True Image 10.0 Home (4942 for the German version) includes the fix for the above issue. You can download the latest build in the "Product Update" section of your account. To get access to updates you should first register your software.

Thank you.
--
Aleksandr Isakov

Not too true...

[Brian K]

Originally Posted by probedrone

Also, does symantec ghost 12 have this winload.exe problem?

Mustang said it's OK.

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showt...3214&page=3#54

[probedrone]

Ok plugged in my old gfx card and rebooted with the Vista CD in the drive. The system STILL cannot detect it. So it does not look like the problem was with the video card. Could Acronis have somehow locked my boot sequence so it would always boot from the HD