HDM 12 Suite

Discussion in 'Paragon Drive Backup Product Line' started by Robin A., Feb 16, 2012.

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  1. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    No. Actually cold imaging is the best way to go. Everything is turned off and in a consistent state and all a backup utility has to do is to backup each used sector and then restore it. It is not an option if you cannot or do not want to shutdown windows.

    Hot imaging or live imaging is where the problem comes in, as in order for the backup utility to image, the files have to be in a consistent state, i.e it should not be open or being written to at the time. Snapshot technology solved this problem.

    But the best backup option is still cold imaging.
     
  2. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    So the backups made using either the Linux disk, or the WinPE disk, are considered cold images?
     
  3. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    "Yes.
     
  4. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    Thanks. I'm running the WinPE full image backup now. I'm using the advanced screen, and I noticed that there's no "Archives" tab in the main window, so there's no way that I've been able to figure out to get the Archives in the toolbar at the top to not be greyed out. I figured out how to do it in the main Windows program, but not on the WinPE disk. The one big difference between the WinPE disk and the Linux disk is that with the WinPE disk, you can make differential backups. If that's possible with the Linux disk, I haven't been able to figure out how. Either tomorrow, or later tonight, I'll do the restore from the WinPE image I'm making, and report the findings.

    UPDATE: You are correct, sir. NO problems using the WinPE disk to backup/restore. No disappearing Windows Update history; no big red errors in Event Viewer. So maybe I misunderstood something along the way.

    Tomorrow...the last leg...restoring the identical image that was made using Paragon IN Windows.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2012
  5. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    As expected...even using the WinPE disk to restore the system image made IN Windows using HDM 11 Suite...the Windows Update history was gone, and all the errors listed in a previously posted .jpg were all there again. The only way to avoid these problems is to use either the WinPE disk or the Linux disk to MAKE the "cold" images in the first place. I'm now going to do a restore from Paragon IN Windows using a cold image made with WinPE to see whether or not it's also necessary to use WinPE or Linux to restore a cold image.

    UPDATE: The restore of a cold image made using WinPE, using the Windows HDM 11 program IN Windows, worked perfectly. Windows Update history intact; NO errors in Event Viewer. So the key is making the image using WinPE. It does not appear that it's necessary to restore a cold image using WinPE. For convenience, the Windows program works as well as the WinPE disk when it comes to restoring.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
  6. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

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    No, no. In post #130 I tried to tell: Booting with WinPE creates a complete backup image; you do not need to use the Linux disk. I wrote: “... the backup is complete when I start the backup from the WinPE CD; standard settings.

    From this day off, I shall do a WinPE boot for all my backups. I am glad my computer is able to boot from an USB memory stick, the boot process is a bit faster.”

    Both Raza0007 and Robin A. have clearly stated that the problem only occurs when you run the backup after a normal Windows boot (using the VSS technology).
     
  7. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

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    @Raza0007: Thanks for re-quoting the paragraph with links to your posts some years ago. I have checked my system:

    HTTPMail
    HDM12 Pro has no problems with these accounts

    Internet Security System
    I am running Kaspersky PURE. I cannot see any problem with the databases in C:\ProgramData\Kaspersky Lab\AVP9. BTW, I always shut down the security program when I am running the backup (and of course, I have disconnected from Internet).

    I have checked both normal Windows archives and WinPE created archives. So far, I have only noticed the missing Windows Update history.

    Raza0007, did you ever open a support ticket for your problems?
     
  8. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

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    I have performed an extensive test, totally exited my security system (to avoid interferring with the backup process, started HDM 12 in Windows, normal mode, used Microsoft Volume Shadow Copy Service as hot processing method (only when partition is locked).

    Result: As usual, an empty c:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\DataStore, the file ReportingEvents.log in this directory is missing. I checked the other folders in SoftwareDistribution. There are others empty folders: \AuthCabs (4 files), \SelfUpdate (2 files), \WuRedir (4 files). C:\Windows\System32\ seems to be OK, the same with \SysWOW64 and \winsxs.

    I then started a backup using Paragon Hot Processing (only when partition is locked). Result: C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution is OK!

    My tests confirmed what is already stated: The problem only occurs when you use VSS and run Windows in normal mode.

    The possible solutions are:

    1] Use Paragon Hot Processing if you run the backup in Windows.
    2] Boot from a Linux CD or a WinPE CD and start the backup.



    Raza0007, you wrote that PHP does not work on Windows 7, but I had no problems with this technique. I am running Win7 Pro x64, ver 6.1, build 7601: SP1.
     
  9. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    Yep. My bad. Sorry.

    The one issue I've found with using the WinPE disk for making the backups is that since there's no way to save the settings you've got to go through and choose any settings that are not the defaults every time you run a backup. That's somewhat tedious, and every once in a while I'd forget to do that and end up with a backup that had all the default settings chosen. (I used the WinPE disk a lot when I first got HDM 11 before I installed the full program on my system.) By contrast, I never ran into these VSS issues when I used IFW (IFW uses Phylock as an alternative to VSS). Any and all images I'd ever made came out fine, so there was no need to use IFD to make backup images. The IFD disk was only necessary for restores.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
  10. SIW2

    SIW2 Registered Member

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    I have done countless restores with Paragon - the missing update history has not caused any problems.

    Nevertheless, it is a strange thing.

    You would think Paragon could have sorted it out by now.
     
  11. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    The only time I can think of where the missing history could be a problem is when it comes to which updates failed. The list of updates that succeeded are listed in the "Installed Updates". The history contains a list of the updates that succeeded, AND failed. So, for example, if you're having a problem with .net Framework, which sometimes gets fouled up if the order of the updates gets out of whack, and you have to then use a special tool to uninstall ALL .net frameworks updates, and start over again, a list of failed updates could be helpful in at least pinpointing where things might have gone wrong.

    But as my photos showed, there are more things going on with the in Windows backups than just the Windows Update history being zapped. There's a whole list of errors being generated using that method that are not being generated using the WinPE disk. And to the best of my knowledge, these issues never occurred when I used IFW, which uses Phylock as its locking feature. I'm not sure if Phylock uses VSS or not, but whether it does or doesn't, I never saw the types of errors I'm now seeing with HDM 11. And IFW makes the backup IN Windows, not with a disk. (IFD makes the backups with a disk.)
     
  12. JosephB

    JosephB Registered Member

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    Raza0007, SIW2,

    Just to un-confuse myself, is the missing Windows Update History, *only* a problem under Win 7 ?? ... Or, Has it happened to you under Win XP, too ?
     
  13. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

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    Good question, I checked my WinXP computer (ugh, I have forgotten to update this computer; don't tell my wife, she is the most frequent user of the comp).

    I found a similar folder structure in XP (\Windows\ SoftwareDistribution but the ReportingEvents.log has another structure). I performed my first B&R11 Home backup 6 days ago, I checked the archive, the folder SoftwareDistribution\DataStore kept all the files! Check for yourself. The problem seems to only concern Win7.
     
  14. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    Another little "quirk". I had just made a diff b/u using WinPE before installing a program I wanted to test out. I didn't like the program, and rather than go through the whole uninstall process, I decided just to restore from the diff b/u I'd just made. I happened to notice something in the Recycle Bin on the desktop, but didn't bother to empty it since I knew that the b/u I'd made had an empty Recycle Bin. After the restore, using WinPE (not that that would make any difference), when Windows booted I saw that the Recycle Bin was NOT empty. Somehow, the restore did not COMPLETELY restore the desktop. It's not a huge deal, but clearly...there are issues with Paragon HDM 11 that go beyond just the Windows Update history issue. And that's exactly what Raza007 was saying. How MANY issues...no one really knows. I had no idea a restore wouldn't include the Recycle Bin. So how many OTHER issues are going on similar to this that we're not aware of? And that's a daunting question when dealing with b/u's and restores, IMO.
     
  15. SIW2

    SIW2 Registered Member

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    Are you saying the object in the recycle bin was still there after restoring an image?

    I don't see how that is possible.
     
  16. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    That's exactly what I was saying. Frankly, I was shocked. I'd never seen that before. And just so you know, I did a restore just to double check that the image I'd made hadn't included anything already in the Recycle Bin at the time I'd made it. And so I took that image and restored it to a desktop that had nothing in the R.B., and the restored image had nothing in the R.B. But that same image, when restored to a desktop that did have something in the R.B. STILL had something in the R.B. Very strange. It's never happened before, and I tried to replicate it and couldn't. I had installed a program that shrunk my desktop, and that's why I was doing the restore. But that shouldn't have made a difference; at least none that I can think of. I'll just write it off as one of those inexplicable things.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
  17. JosephB

    JosephB Registered Member

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    skbaltimore,

    Just came across this. What do you infer from this:
    http://support.macrium.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1923

    This indicates that Windows 7 VSS skips "non-essential" - Windows System Files, such as Windows Update History, but that this software compenstated for Windows 7 VSS skipping of capturing the Windows Update History and the software pgm can now capture it. Perhaps, you can mention/add this to your paragon support request.
     
  18. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

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    Thanks, JosephB. To support skbaltimore, I opened a support ticket on Friday. I have now added your information. Thanks again.
     
  19. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

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    Yes, your story is a bit scaring, skbaltimore. You performed a disk/partition backup/restore (not file backup)? Maybe I should try a similar operation?

    English is not my native language; I am a bit unsure when you write “It's never happened before, and I tried to replicate it and couldn't”. Is this a one-time happening, or did you have the same experience with your second try?
     
  20. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    Wow. Great work!! :thumb:

    At least that explains, clarifies, and verifies the issue. (Except for the part about syncing up the history during the next update; that didn't happen.) And I'm sure if Macrium can figure out how to fill in the gap for the missing Windows Update history, so can Paragon. (I wonder what other "non-essential" Windows files there are beside the Windows Update history. But since they're considered to be non-essential, I'm not going to worry about it.) It would explain, though, why those who were using the Paragon Hot processing in XP avoided the problem, since it's only VSS that is leaving out "non-essential" Windows files. And also why Phylock in IFW doesn't have that problem either, since it replaces VSS.

    (And I just added this info to my Paragon support ticket.)

    Update: I don't think this would have any bearing on the situation, but I do have "System Restore" turned off on my laptop. I know there's an interaction between VSS and System Restore, but I don't think it would affect how HDM 11/12 uses VSS.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
  21. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    1. Disk partition backup/restore, yes.
    2. No, I was not able to replicate the situations. It only happened that one time. But after reading Joesph B's post about VSS leaving out "non essential" Windows files, I wonder if the Recycle Bin is considered to be essential, or non essential.
     
  22. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    Here's another thread, on the Sevens forum, that talks about the disappearing Windows Update history:

    http://www.sevenforums.com/backup-r...-empty-after-windowsimagebackup-restored.html

    I've added my posts, based upon what's been discussed here, to try to provide some clarification of the problem.

    Side note: It's ironic...some people actually WANT to clear their Windows Update history. And I'm looking for a way to keep it intact. Different stokes..

    :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
  23. skbaltimore

    skbaltimore Registered Member

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    Since this IS the HDM 12 thread...

    :D

    I uninstalled HDM 11 and installed HDM 12, with the HotCore Driver option. I made a diff b/u using Paragon Hot Processing, and it didn't hang the way it had using a modified HDM 11 install.

    Observations:

    1. I like the fact that HDM 11 backups are compatible with HDM 12. (With IFW, when they went to a full upgrade, the V 1.x backups were not compatible with the V 2.x program).
    2. The backup went quickly, but the timer during the backup is WAY off. The b/u finished, and the countdown timer still showed over 11 minutes left -- right before the "SUCCEEDED" screen appeared.
    3. One difference I noticed: when I would click on a folder in HDM 11 to link the diff b/u to the arc folder, it automatically detected the correct .pbf arc file within the arc folder. In HDM 12, I had to expand the tree and physically select the .pbf arc file inside the folder, otherwise everything remained blank. (And speaking of expanding that folder...I had to increase the horizontal size of that dialog box a lot, otherwise, everything was squished, and it only showed one line, making it impossible to expand/read the tree.)
    4. After uninstalling HDM 11, I got an Event Viewer error for 3 Paragon drivers. I really don't like programs that don't uninstall properly.
    5. The all important (drum roll please)...restore from the IN WINDOWS image made with PHP (vs VSS)...
    the vanishing Windows Update history remained intact. Some Event Viewer errors, particularly the corrupt MSE file, happened as well. Only the cold imaging seems to resolve these issues.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
  24. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    I personally have never run PHP on windows 7. I indicated as much in one of my previous pots on this thread. @skbaltimore, tested it on his win 7 and it crashed and since Paragon has made it optional install in HDM 12, I just assumed it was not compatible with win 7. I see later @skbaltimore was also able to run PHP on win 7, so yeah PHP is compatible with windows 7.
     
  25. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    I never used Paragon on WinXP. I noticed these problems on Vista 32-bit and later Windows 7 32-bit.
     
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