"Rollback RX" luvs "Image For Windows" - REDUX

I've only just stopped laughing!

 

That's about the time of the original failure... I believe Panagiotis is correct with his statement.

 

The INCREMENTAL testing has proven to be just as effective at restorations as both DIFFERENTIAL and FULL imaging.

So far, things are looking very well.

 

That's interesting that this would happen. Perhaps submit a support ticket with attached log files.

 

Overclocker, you almost killed me!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_from_laughter

Panagiotis

 

Doesn't really sound like he wants to, but I appreciate you spreading the word about our Support Portal!

 

I re-read the posts and realized how stupid I sound lol

 

Do you actually read the posts?
Send logs of what? Are you really suggesting that RollbackRX actually killed Brians processor?

Panagiotis

 

I didn't tell him to attach log files...

 

Brian, I have done that in the past. Even if I'm able to request another IFW trial I'll wait on doing that until Froggie has completed his RBrx testing and publishes his "Rollback RX luvs Image For Windows - REDUX" pdf.

 

No, but you said "Doesn't really sound like he wants to..." as if those logs would have a meaning to Brian and to HDS.
Your responses make no sense at all... or better the only sense they can make is "HDS does cares for it's users/customers, send a ticket and we will help"... even for cases that you cannot help like Brian's.

If your only reason to exist here is advertising I would suggest that you stop. It's annoying...

Panagiotis

 

The main items determined to date with this effort are...

1. Using IFW's PHYLOCK file system lock (not Microsoft's VSS), following the imaging operation we've determined that all changes occurring during the "All Sector" imaging operation were merged back into the file system at the Rollback snapshot level (not into the baseline)... this is a very good thing. This was also somewhat verified by IFW Support people (their language could use a little more specificity ).

2. While taking about the same amount of time as a FULL image, IFW's Incremental and Differential operations produce the normally expected image size and may be used successfully in any "All Sector" restore operation accordingly... they work very well.

3. I had some HDD cacheing issues when imaging with PHYLOCK at the same time I was generating changes to the dynamic system, but apparently they were not Rollback related. When I switched to using RAM-only cacheing (no HDD), things became very stable. RAM cacheing provides the additional benefit that any system changes occurring during the imaging operation create no changes to the surface of the disk being imaged... a very stable condition for "All Sector" imaging. I need to chat with Brian in a PM a bit about PHYLOCK and disk cacheing vs RAM cacheing... or maybe I should RTFM

So... the above being said, I decided to generate what I thought would be an ACID TEST for the above configuration... I figured if it worked through this, it would work through just about anything.

Starting out with an 11-snapshot, 2-timeline system, I fired up an IFW Full imaging process using 1gB of RAM (no disk cacheing) for PhyLock's cacheing requirement. This process froze the existing PHYSICAL (not VIRTUAL provided by Rollback) FileSystem, set up a 1gB cache for any dynamic changes that may occur during the imaging process, and started imaging, in an "All Sector" mode, a protected Rollback SYSTEM partition.

While the imaging/cacheing operation was in progress, I created FOUR additional Rollback snapshots, each containing a different set of FileSystem changes (added files, deleted files, etc.). When the imaging operation was complete and all cached items were merged with the current snapshot, I checked all 15-snapshots at that point in time for data integrity... all were in tact and all functioned very well.

I then WIPED (ZEROs written throughout) the protected partition, WIPED the existing Rollback MBR (replaced it with a standard Windows MBR), then restored the "All Sector" image created during the ACID TEST... uh, oh, it's time to reBOOT Upon reBOOTing the Rollback MBR (and its sub-Console) were in place, the sub-Console detected a SHUTDOWN anomaly and did a quick check of its file system, then moved on to a functional Rollback DESKTOP. Rollback will always do this when you return a HOT image to the disk. It detects a "dirty bit" that wasn't cleared as it should be when Rollback shuts down (it was being imaged at the time so the BIT is in the wrong state in the image) and checks its own file system to be sure there's no anomalies... it never finds any.

A check of Rollbacks DESKTOP shows it to have the 11-snapshots that were there when the image was started... that's how a locked FileSystem should work. I checked the integrity of all 11-snaps and all were fully functional.

At this point I'm not sure I know what I can do to this configuration to make it fail. I figured this would be brutal as not only was the system LOCKed for imaging, Rollback was actively updating its own database while the system was locked and these updates would have to wind up in PHYLOCK's cache and fully merged with the system at the end as required by the designed PHYLOCK operation. At this point I would say things are looking excellent for this effort.

I know some systems may not have enough RAM to cache a system for this operation (that's really the best solution, though) so I will be doing some additional testing in the HDD cacheing area to determine if I can move that cache off the System partition and/or also find out why I was experiencing the HDD cacheing anomalies I saw. Other than those issues, I'm about as close as I can be to what I may call SUCCESS with this effort... for those that may be interested.

To quote Ah-Nuld... "I'll be bach!"

 

In my best Yoda voice... "Embarrassed I am!"

Before bothering Brian I decided to give the extensive IFW manual a decent read and discovered the reason for the above experienced issues. I will discuss them when I offer the final configuration for use when I'm done. Suffice it to say it was not a problem, just an uninformed slippery Frog at work

 

FWIW based on Froggie's findings using IFW I tried to make this method work using AOMEI Backupper 2.5. But it doesn't work, don't waste you time trying...

Since you can force AOMEI to not use VSS I thought there might be a chance. This is what I did:

System: Win7 64-bit, MBR based (No UEFI, no GPT)
Installed RBrx 10.3, did a good number of snaps (about 10)
Installed the current AOMEI Backupper 2.5, created a Linux based rescue disk
In the AOMEI settings I disabled VSS and specified the all sectors method

Under the UpperFilters reg settings there was the AOMEI filter, but it had its own ID, no Shield filter present. So I went to the ID where the Shield filter was located. It just had Shield and partmgr in it, so I added the AOMEI filter at the top of the list.

Rebooted, made a backup of the whole disk
Wiped the whole HDD
Booted from the rescue disk, specified ALL Sectors and made a recovery
On rebooting Rollback complained about an improper shutdown and did some checking.
ChkDsk was invoked automatically and it repaired a couple of things (only a few items)
Windows booted normally, the desktop looked OK, the Rollback taskbar icon reported the correct number of snaps.
Clicking on the Start button immediately caused a BSOD. No visible message, just a blue flickering screen with some undetectable garbage.


Looks like Phylock does a much better job than the AOMEI snapshot filter...


Cheers
manolito

 

Rollback Frog,

I am new to IFW and rollback rx. I am wondering if one can use phylock to image a rollback protected disk from within windows and get the rollback hidden partition? My guess would be no. But what is your experience.

If no, how does one image the entire disk with IFW and include the rollback hidden partition.

If yes, then how does one restore a backup. Is it as simple as starting IFW inside windows and doing a manual restore? and if this is not workable, does one have to boot to a IFW boot disk and then do the restore? Or what.

thanks in advance for the reply

 

I am not an IFW user, but I have used Acronis, AOMEI, and Macrium to successfully backup my Rollback Rx system including all snapshots by following the procedure I first read about in one of pvsurfer's posts, by doing a cold-boot with the backup program's boot (recovery) disk and running a sector-by-sector backup.

So with all due respect for Froggie, who probably forgot more about Rollback Rx than I'll ever know, even if his IFW hot-backup method 'works as advertised' I just don't see it as a big advantage over the cold-boot method, it will still take about the same time and disk space using either a hot or cold sector-by-sector method. While it's true that a hot-backup avoids having to shut-down the system, I just run my cold-backups while I'm enjoying dinner. On the plus side for cold (sector-by-sector) backups, they can be achieved with most image backup programs, not just IFW.

 

Bear, to answer your initial question... first, there is no Rollback "hidden" partition. Rollback's "hidden" stuff (valid snapshots) are scattered throughout the Rollback protected partition(s), literally scattering that information all over that partition amongst "viewable" stuff seen in Windows... and it has no defined definition except to Rollback itself. As such, you must image it using IFW's "All unused sectors" feature in its SETTINGS window prior to imaging. This, of course, images the entire protected partition(s) whether Windows thinks the space is in use or not... AND it requires a very special setup in Windows for IFW and its special driver, PhyLock.

And, of course, Appster is correct... bot HOT and COLD imaging may be accomplished by IFW (IFW is unique in its HOT ability... many imagers can do COLD "All sector" imaging)... as such the only advantage to HOT imaging is it may be done while you're using your system where COLD must be done via the WinPE-based (or optionally LINUX-based <IFL>) IFW Recovery Media and the imaging period must be dedicated to restoration only (preferably while Appster's having dinner ... and that's clearly during "island time").

As far as restorations are concerned, with some scripting and a WinPE Recovery Media access installed in your BOOTmgr, you can start the restoration under the LIVE Windows system but it will immediately BOOT into the "off-line" Recovery media to perform the restoration... Brian_K is the resident Forum expert on doing these types of things with IFW. The System partition is always LOCKED so its restoration cannot be performed under LIVE Windows (by any imager... although AX64 Time Machine does give it a questionable try). The most common restoration procedure is just BOOTing into that external Recovery Media and doing a "normal" restoration of that "All unused sector" image taken above.

 

Thanks for the quick reply. Could you detail the settings necessary for "AND it requires a very special setup in Windows for IFW and its special driver, PhyLock." and where to affect those changes?

 

The problem lies in the order of installation of both Rollback and IFW. They both use what's called an "UpperFilter" which is a special pre-low level driver filter... and they use the exact some ones.

If you are Windows REGISTRY-modification averse, you can obtain the proper results by insuring that IFW is installed as an application AFTER Rollback RX is installed. That may sound easy (and it is when you begin) but to keep up with it requires some attention at certain times along the way. For instance, if you unInstall Rollback to do some system maintenance (Defrag, partition work, etc.) and re-install it... you must do the same with IFW (remember, it needs to be installed AFTER Rollback). The same applies to a Rollback upgrade, which does nothing more than unInstall and reInstall itself to a newer version. Each time this type of work is done, drivers reposition themselves in the system and if the order isn't right, IFW's HOT image will not restore correctly.

If you don't mind working with the Windows REGISTRY, the following keys (if they exist on your system) are the ones that must be maintained in the order offered below...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
--SYSTEM
----ControlSet001
------Control
--------Class
----------{4d36e967-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be-10318}
------------UpperFilters = phylock shield PartMgr

----ControlSet002
------Control
--------Class
----------{4d36e967-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be-10318}
------------UpperFilters = phylock shield PartMgr

----CurrentControlSet
------Control
--------Class
----------{4d36e967-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be-10318}
------------UpperFilters = phylock shield PartMgr

The above order will change depending on when and where you unInstall/Install either IFW or Rollback. The important thing is insuring that phylock is earlier in the list than shield. You might think that just exporting the appropriate REGISTRY KEYs for later addition when apps are Installed/unInstalled would be a simple way to manage the whole situation, but alas certain apps you may add to that system along the way may also make use of an UpperFilter in the same area... that would be lost in the attempted mgmt unless you updated your KEY EXPORT after finding a new UpperFilter.

That's it! The rest is in the use of IFW and its appropriate options (PhyLOCK and the final image specs). The PhyLOCK setup is a bit tricky but once done it's easy to understand why the changes were made. If you need the IFW changes lemme know and I'll document them here for you.

 

Thanks again for some swift help.
Yes, Please document the changes in IFW and phylock.

Does IFW automatically boot to a pre-os when I try to restore from within Windows to my system (C) partition?

And if rollback "hides" certain sectors from windows, how does IFW verify those sectors when It does it's verify operation.

Regards,

TheBear

 

FWIW here is Froggie's old tutorial from the deleted HDS forum:
http://www57.zippyshare.com/v/KoE5tOhz/file.html

I believe that most things do still apply. I hope Froggie doesn't mind...


Cheers
manolito

 

There are some suggested changes so keep the information "soft" for the moment.

 

Does it work without the extra changes if I boot with the image for windows winpre boot disk?

Also, can I initiate a restore with image for windows from within windows? And will it reboot to the preboot environment automatically?

 

Yes and Yes. You can use the "bootfile" method. The instructions are in the TBWinRE/PE tutorial.

This can even be scheduled. You could set the restore to occur at 3 am if you desire.

If you have BIBM installed you can have a TBWinRE/PE partition and automate the restore with BootNow.

 

I am using the latest version of Rollback RX PC Professional. Can I make a sector by sector backup from within windows 8 and also initiate a sector by sector restore from within windows 8 and get all my snapshots back? That is where I am heading with this. I will look into the bootfile method. If the bootfile method required for successfully backing up and restoring Rollback and it's snapshots?
regards