***WARNING!*** COMPUSA!!!!!!!

[luv2bsecure]

If any of you have been in a CompUSA lately, I am sure you have seen the "TRY AOL HIGH SPEED INTERNET" signs and the "AOL Icafe" kiosks with 6 computers. I was in a CompUSA today and was looking up specs on merchandise on one of these computers. Please keep in mind, the Icafe sign invites you to check email - do whatever!

I noticed the interface was different. It wasn't what is usually there (basic IE 6.0).....it was framed around a CompUSA frame. My machine messed up and needed a reboot and I saw the new interface as it came up. It was called "NetKey Creator Studio." Needless to say, I was curious. I went to Netkey.com after I got home (the URL was "locked" at the store).

It's nothing but glorified SPYWARE. There was NO NOTICE of any kind, no disclaimer, no nothing but a walk-up kiosk and you surf away.

The product on their machines are marketed for kiosk use inside stores. One of the major features? "Log all on-screen events."

Well, I wasn't using an employer's computer here where my "work" is being monitored. I don't work for them and my activities don't need to be watched! I know many think that's OK. But, this is different, a public kiosk inviting you to check email, etc. secretly snapping pictures of your screens and logging screens and keystrokes? I felt extremely violated.

I asked for a manager and the highest ranking member of the CompUSA team in the store was a 21 year-old &%^hole who DID NOT remember I was the customer! He was very rude to me in that "snotty" kind of way.
In fact, six (no kidding), stood around and listened to my complaint of there being no disclaimer that "all use is subject to monitoring." They ALL made fun of me in a "what do you expect?" kind of way. This is SAD. We have now come to a point in America, where we ASSUME we are being spied on everywhere we go! One said, "we have cameras watching you." How stupid! That's a hell of a lot different than the store recording somebody typing in email without the knowledge of the customer.

I am as blanked off at the way I was treated when I registered my complaint than at the actual spying! It is a very REAL commentary on our society when people (especially younger people) EXPECT to be watched by the Corporate State and their government. Is this still America? Doesn't anybody care that we are moving toward a full-blown police state in a government/corporate cooperative effort to watch our every move????

I will NEVER go back to CompUSA!
In fact, can I sue them??? Remember, this was NOT a workplace situation. They invited me to use their computer for free -- and then SPIED on me with no disclaimer! Off my chest.
Checkout: I tried to remember rule #7, I just couldn't decide what to cut out! *:)

John

[Detox]

Very nasty! I assume you that I won't be going to CompUSA after hearing this either! Wish we could all have been there together... Six on one is bad :-(

[snowman]

* * * * * Luv2B


* * * * * *was really sadden to read here of your experience....I've known others who have had like experiences.....an like re-actions.........this sort of thing has become commonplace..unfortunately.

* * * * * *any comments I might make may well just bring back your memory on the incident.......instead...I am sincerely wishing you a very special day tomorrow.

[luv2bsecure]

;)
Thanks, Snowman.

John

[Mr.Blaze]

:DLOL you need to do it Blaze style sweety ;)

This is what i want you to do.

Give us e-mail Addy of CompUSA of some major person there not the stor mind you the head office itself the one that runs the main chain=)

Give us the phone number adress employes manager names of the store that treated you this way.

paste it here and will all send are complaints in and see whos laughing last :D.

I bet we can get a few people fired 8)

You got to make a stand and make an example of mofos in order to make a change.

See the ighnet mofos were laughing cause there totaly clueless.

if i had been there and i never learnd what i learnd at wilders.

im sorry to say in my eyes you would had look like a hestirical woman who i thought was nuts.

simply cause i would be totaly ighnet and clueless.

You inteligent smart people sometimes tend to forget that the rest of the world dosent know what you know.

That most people are clueless and ignorent and that great people like the people at wilders are in a class of there owen.

:DIF ANYTHING YOU SHOULD PITY THESE IGHNET MOFOS.

You people *that hang around here are truly spechial people and im truely greatful to be learning so much each day from you.

Buttom line if you want sweet revenge served on a silver platter i know how to hurt companys and do some seriouse pr damage.

Maybe dropeing there sales by 10%

but the problem is now of days people are so docile and not willing to fight simply b.i.t.c.h and take it with out lube has become the latest fad.

:Dusealy when some one wrongs me the way they did you i get hungry for bloodand i usealy get it.

so will you post the information of the store location *and who i can b.i.t.c.h to about this a major name as well as some of these employes names.

if you can give me full details as well ill go make a web site called comp usa when people get directed there theyll have full report of the incident and will think twice by dealing with them.

[Mr.Blaze]

:DPs if you guys can dig up any shadey dealing from comp usa or some dirt post it here

also if you know where to get better deals then comp usa products from other vendors put it here as will.

that way we can redirect customers to other vendores in competion with compusa there for dameging compusa profit.

:D

[Eagle1]

This is not to defend CompUSA because I don't use them for other reasons that I find even more disgusting. BTW, if anyone wants to hear that horror story I'll be glad to tell it and I'm quite certain anyone reading it would never go there again. They ^&*^&^*&^

But the CompUSA kiosks that are set up use the NeyKey management system. It is something that includes security monitoring. This is an absolute must if you are going to allow employees/customers to use the comps to access the internet or email. The liability to the company would be too great otherwise. The security management is just that. It will monitor for potential security breaches to the store/company databases, employee/customer abuse, etc. But this is also not a new practice. Notice or abuse of that information is another question though.

I know for a fact other similar retail outlets do similar things (some with the same company...some they developed themselves....some with similar companies as NetKey) and a friend who manages one has told me that since 9/11 lots of pressure is being put on companies by the government to watch employee/customer activities with much more scrutiny. In fact, I hate to say this but many folks are now being monitored by lots of institutions and reports generated for the government (forced too) that would cause most to cringe....and might cause a few regulars here to likely look for 200 acres in Montana if they knew just how much. *But let me get back on track.

Now whether that could be abused or not for profiling or future spam/telemarketing is another question. NetKey has no user or privacy policies publically displayed that I could find. And it sounds like CompUSA does not either. CompUSA should prominently display any monitoring it does whether for security or otherwise, and whether in the store or on their computers. *I believe legally they have too. For those reasons I would have real concerns and agree with luv2bsecure to stay away.

[luv2bsecure]

I just remembered something. While I was there (the second time) before I said anything to anybody, I was just curious and did a check on their IP address and domain name. AOL's Icafe? Interesting, but the domain name was helios.compusa.com/net (can't remember which one)....How could that be a "Try AOL High Speed Internet?" I am not sure how all that works, so maybe they can run that domain through AOL. Anybody know? Or was I really "test driving" CompUSA's system?

John

[Eagle1]

Like most of the large retailers they have partnerships with AOL or MSN or whoever. You were testing CompUSA's system and getting a taste of AOL's broadband service at the same time. Basically, you were accessing preset websites through CompUSA's computer system via AOL's broadband services. The domain is a subdomain of CompUSA's primary domain and the interface, pages, filtering, etc *where likely managed with KeyNet's programs.

I went to CompUSA today to check this out and did my own very persistent inquiring about why no type of privacy notice is put up and asked what guarantee there was that peoples personal information would not be gathered and I was kindly but firmly asked to leave. When I pushed the issue the shift manager was called and he said I leave or the police will escort me. I would say CompUSA is not anyplace I would recommend. Now part of that may have been because they remembered me from my last incident. *:D * (That cost the store some computer parts) *But regardless, they definitely don't want any public outcrys in their store regarding what they may be doing on their kiosks and the intentional lack of notice. I definitely have a new campaign with them. *>:( >:( ;D

[luv2bsecure]

Good for you, Eagle1 !!!

I like those who raise a voice for what's right. That's the exact same kind of arrogant attitude I got from the store I was in.

Hey, come on, what happened with them before? PM me or send an email - I'd like to know. I have read many a column that says CompUSA's downfall will be their lousy customer service. They can have either no red shirts in sight, or they can have twenty five and none of them want to quit chatting long enough to help you. It's really poor.

They are now owned by a company out of Mexico City who supposedly plans a crackdown on the service image. That may also explain though the lack of courtesy in letting *customers* know they are being spied on when invited to write emails on their computers.

John

[Eagle1]

I don't have a problem with telling the story publically. Basically it started several months ago when I was looking to purchase a new vid card for my kids machine. I did my usual search on the net for compatibility, etc. and then proceeded to search for who offered the best deal on the card I chose. CompUSA had the best deal going so I went there. Well, when I arrived with my youngest in toe (7 yrs old) I proceeded to search for the card. The spot they were supposed to be at was empty. So I searched for some help to see if maybe some might be in the back of the store. I had to go 3 departments away to find 2 individuals standing around talking. When I asked for help they sort of looked disgusted at me and one of them said "if it ain't on the shelf we ain't got it" and they proceeded to continue talking to each other. I pulled out my trusty notepad and proceeded to write down their names from their badges and the comment. The other guy asked what I was doing and I told him I was writing down their names for my discussion with the manager. I continued with "I usually write these things down because I'm a stupid customer and I might not remember when I get across the store" and then walked on to find the manager. They just mumbled and continued with their conversation. (Real dummies) The shift manager turned out to be a bigger dummy. He took it a step further and said that I shouldn't be talking out of line with his employees. Well, that sent me for a loop and I proceeded to explain everything I was going to do the moment I left the store and who I was going to contact. He simply said fine but it wouldn't change anything. I was one fried toad at that point. *>:(

I went home and started my email and letter campaign immediately. Later that afternoon my wife went shopping at a mall nearby and stopped in to see if she could get someone to look for the card. No card but they talked her into another "better" card. Now I was really ticked. Partly at my wife for falling for that crap but mostly at the store for the blatant lies they told her about what they sold her.

I proceeded the next day to return the card...this time with 2 of my children in toe. When I tried to return it they said I could not because the shrink wrap was torn. Can you believe that. Well I told them a manager might be a good idea and that it best be the General Manager and not some flunky wannabe manager. Didn't help. I got the same dummy from the day before. Well he proceeded to give me garbage and accused me of setting this up with my wife. When I started to tell him that he might want to be real careful what came out of his mouth next he told me to shut up and leave. My 11 yr old daughter then started crying because this guy scared her. Then I scared her even more by getting in this guys face very closely and explaining that he was going to be very, very unhappy he ever was rude to me and called me or my wife cheats. My daughter grabbed my shirt which caused me to step back, think for a second and we left.

It was then time to supplement my emails and snail mail. I wrote letters to the regional manager and to the CEO in Texas outlining what happened. Within 2 days the General Manager called, apologized profusely and said that he would send a tech to my house with the card I wanted and even install it for me. The tech showed at a time I was not here which I adamnatly told them not to do and he installed the card with my wife watching. Well, not only did he install a junk card but he also installed CompUSA software which I believe (although I can't prove it definitively) did a little calling home. The log it created had all the comps info including default email, my name, computer name, etc in it. I guess they didn't expect someone would know their way around like I do. I immediately called the store's General Manager on his direct line (He gave it to me when he called me) left a message on his machine and never to this day have heard from him again.

However, I also called Texas and was quite persistent about staying on the phone until I spoke with the CEO or someone who could make decisions for him. I was eventually given his Executive Secretary who was quite nice actually, who took down my information and complaints, including regarding the software and my personal info concerns, and promised she would call back personally. I never expected her to do so but she did 2 hours later. She was quite annoyed with whatever she discovered and profusely apologized for my experiences and promised it would be rectified. She said to expect a call from the "wannabe" manager (her words too-she quoted me) and that he would be most gracious. He called within 15 minutes and basically told me they would make it right by bringing me the card I wanted, asked if there was anything else I needed, that I would not be charged for any of it, and I would also receive a refund for the card my wife purchased. I listed about $400 worth of additional things I was needing *:D and he said he would personally deliver them within an hour. 2 hours later he showed up with everything I asked for along with a gift card with the refund on it. He apologized and while handing him the junk card very clearly stated that if I received one piece of junk mail, spam or anything remotely close to it from CompUSA, it's affiliates or relations I would be seeing him in court and then closed the door. Adios, see ya. *When he got back in his car he apparently flipped me off (middle finger, the bird.... in other words up yours for those international folks that don't know what that means) from what my 7 year old said. I didn't see it but don't think my son would just make that up. Especially because he said it rather casually about 1/2 hour later.

So anyway, that is the story. CompUSA has a bunch of losers working in this local store and I wouldn't send my enemy to shop there.

[Paul Wilders]

I'm stunned *:o - Out of words.

regards.

paul

[luv2bsecure]

:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o *:o

Nobody could read that and NOT be stunned!

Though, after my experience with these twerps, I can't say I am totally surprised. But, Eagle1, what an experience! Good for you for standing toe-to-toe. They're not used to that as most people slink away.

WOW!

John

[Eagle1]

It was quite a disturbing experience and probably part of the reason I went there today. They are simply violating peoples rights IMO. And they need to be brought to bear for it.

The sad part is it's not just CompUSA. You can go into almost any large retailer now and get treated the same way. It's really disgusting how bad it is now. *>:(

I don't buy any computer parts in retail outlets anymore either. If I pay a little more elsewhere so be it. I just refuse to go in them anymore.

Basically, I have no issue with companies using security measures and implementing tools to protect their property. But notice is very important and treating people like people is more important. Invading privacy just don't cut it with me...and recieving treatment like I did is just plain wrong. I cringe at the thought of how many others have been abused like this. *:(

[Detox]

I'm absolutley appalled! Sheesh I'll be telling everyone I know.

[Mr.Blaze]

Im not stuned *at all i eat those mofos for breakfeast more then one way.

Any how id do what Eagle1 said but a notch further just cause i cant spell dont mean i cant scare the hell out of some one.

I relly like these storys if thers more keep them comeing

luv2bsecure are you going to just let it go or you going to post the store adress and peoples names as well as who we can e-mail and b.i.t.c.h to=)

[Paul Wilders]

Sir Blaze,

{QUOTE-> luv2bsecure are you going to just let it go or you going to post the store adress and peoples names as well as who we can e-mail and b.i.t.c.h to=) <-QUOTE}

No offense, but no name publishing over here. Feel free to PM.

regards.

paul

[Eagle1]

Don't worry Mr. Forum Admin *;).

I would never publish names. First off it isn't necessary as this story has publically come out here locally already. Secondly, this thread should stay focused on COMPUSA's customer service and privacy issues IMO (which is a big issue)..and....Thirdly I would not do anything that might potentially expose the board owner *;) to any unnecessary liability by escalating this into an attack on persons instead of the company philosophy, operation and mindset which feed this type of mistreatment.

Any campaign against CompUSA should be on that level...attacking the invasion of privacy, lack of notice and customer service as a whole. IMO of course.

[Paul Wilders]

Thanks Eagle1 * ;D.

I agree on all points.

The request wan not especially addressed to you: Sir Blaze asked luv2bsecure in the first place (although I'm pretty sure he would not post addresses either!).

Sir Blaze has a (nice) impulsive mind; merely wanted to make sure to Sir Blaze we cannot have individual names and addresses posted (no offense, Blaze!).

regards.

paul

[Detox]

I have forwarded the URL to this thread to several of my family members and a few friends in an attempt to help spread the word. Maybe I am not the most informed person as far as current events go, but I never knew anything about CompUSA having the reputation. The reputation seems thoroughly earned, however, and I should like to spread the word as best as I can.

BTW- "sir blaze" I Like that hehehe... But why does he get knighted and not me? sheesh... *jealous* I wanna be a knight too.

[Paul Wilders]

Sir Detox,

{QUOTE-> But why does he get knighted and not me? sheesh... *jealous* I wanna be a knight too. <-QUOTE}

Apologies; knighted from this moment on *8)

regards.

paul

[Mr.Blaze]

:DD.a.m.n all i needed was the location of the store and a e-mail adress so the 400 woman i know could spam them.

Woman tend to get angry at this typ of stuff when it comes to banding together *spreading the word fast and putung the fear of god into a company woman tend to get best results.

8)the company must pay with its blood otherwise it will never know the damage you do to it hence for will never change its policys.

oh well =)

[luv2bsecure]

UPDATE!

First, Paul you are correct in that I would never post names and addresses. If anyone wants to write CompUSA (and I think everyone should, as a consumer, take advantage of that suggestion/comments email link on their home page.)

OK, this could be BIG NEWS. I contacted someone from PC World and left a message on their voicemail. I received a call back today saying they know exactly what I am talking about as they are in CompUSA and see those kiosks all the time. They could not believe there was no disclaimer stating that anything typed into these computers were being logged/monitored. He said he drove to the CompUSA nearest him to see if there truly was no disclaimer that everything was subject to monitoring. He was appalled and went through the same little thing as others with the manager who (surprise) treated him like a Pariah for daring to question a policy (or rather a lack of one.) *He argued with the manager at the store that while he personally wouldn't use the kiosk computers for email or anything personal, many unsuspecting people would as there are no restrictions on its use.

We talked for 20 minutes or so, getting my name and thoughts on this. He had already talked to someone from a privacy group who said they, too, were very surprised they were running NetKey without the disclaimer - which apparently is an option with that software. The writer told me CompUSA corporate doesn't want to discuss it AT ALL. He told me he would be back in touch with me.

Word contunes to spread. It's being discussed many other places and CompUSA should surely be shamed into giving notice/ a disclaimer that customers private typing (including --- has anyone thought of this ---- passwords!) are being logged without their knowledge.

John Little

[Paul Wilders]

My compliments, John! Keep us posted, will you?

regards.

paul

[Eagle1]

Well I received a very interesting call about 30 minutes ago. I can't give details as I have to let my attorney handle it first. But it appears CompUSA is pretty much going to try to use strongarm tactics. >:( >:( >:(

They are going to be sorry they screwed with me now. Several friends of mine from BeaconHill (Massachusetts Statehouse for those that don't know) are also very interested in this as well. One of them paid a visit to the local store today and was appalled (I can't quote him). I think CompUSA may have an issue on their hands. *;D

BTW, luv2bsecure....I want to thank you for starting this thread because this company has been burning at me since my incident and I've had nowhere to go with the burn....and now maybe...just maybe....they may get more than they bargained for.

[Paul Wilders]

{QUOTE-> Well I received a very interesting call about 30 minutes ago. I can't give details as I have to let my attorney handle it first. <-QUOTE}

Eagle1, keep us posted as soon as your attorney permits please!

regards.

paul

[Eagle1]

Just hung up with my attorney for the third time. It appears CompUSA thinks because I took their offer of reconciliation by way of computer parts and refund from them that I should not be publically discussing it. As my attorney explained to them I never made any such agreement, and if that would have been a condition I never would have accepted it. I explained to my attorney that I still have every part, and the gift card, still in the bag under my computer workbench and have never even touched them. My intent was to use them as part of a donated computer at some point.

He stated that to their attorney and further explained that my treatment yesterday was a new incident that is now the crux of the matter anyhow. He stated that if they wanted the parts back instead of letting them be donated to a worthy person or cause so be it. He said to me they got pretty silent for a moment and then stated that they would have to discuss this further and get back to him.

I think some folks are getting under their skin. And I surely hope luv2bsecure's contacts turn up the heat too. They are getting jumpy over there and beginning to cringe at the attention.

[Paul Wilders]

Eagle1,

{QUOTE-> I think some folks are getting under their skin. And I surely hope luv2bsecure's contacts turn up the heat too. They are getting jumpy over there and beginning to cringe at the attention. <-QUOTE}

The bolded part I like the most - eager for the follow up!

regards.

paul

*

[Eagle1]

Another update. CompUSA refuses to talk with my State Rep. contact either. I just hung up with him and he said his calls have resulted in simple "no comment" replies. He is a little ticked to say the least.

I think lots of emails need to be going to all State and Federal congress members and to CompUSA stating the concern regarding lack of notice, rude customer treatment and the potential privacy/security violations. I also think NetKey needs to get some emails too. That might put some additional pressure on CompUSA to respond with some postitive action.

[Mr.Blaze]

instead of letting them be donated to a worthy person or cause

=) evill grin im not sure if im worthy but poor count

im so poor the other day i walked in to my front yard got muged by two roches and a rat.

Im so damn poor there no food in the house and when i went to rest room i saw a roch on the toilet with a sighn that said good by cruel world lol=)

Im so poor that when a mofo goes to rob me he just practicieing.

Im so poor that im actualy in a back ally of the libary in a card bord box hooked up to the internet with a libary computer and the phone line leading out the libary window to the cardbord box.

ps is there a graphix card lol all i got is the 8bit chip set that comes standard with the gateway essthinal 700 c for a graphix card lol.

[Checkout]

Blaze, you're in danger out out-weirding me. * ;D

[Eagle1]

Sir Blaze, You are acting a little more weird than usual *;D ....hmmm...it must be spring fever kicking in. *;)

I very often donate comps to families in need that come to my attention through the local school system, or sometimes to small local groups who don't already have computers or the budget to obtain one. But I usually have to wait until I get my hands on monitors before I can do so and those are much harder to come by. Thats why the parts have been sitting around for 2 months.

[Mr.Blaze]

=) lol parts i know lol was wondering if you had a pci graphix card lol

jingle jingle rusty can.

nah if you relly want to donate it to computerless family i totaly understand *cause i got puter.

it make funny loud noises not relly upgradeabl;e except ram and graphix cars cause he way gate way built it.

it pice of crapolah.

i was wondering cause i had codename hit man 47 a real cool assasin game.

but all i been able to do is admire the box cause the store wouldnt take it back=(

i didnt know at time my puter had a chip 8mb set standard pice of crap.

will at least unreal tournement works on this computer=)

kill kill kill kiill lol

i love unreal=)

[Mike_Healan]

The Langalist has picked up on this too.
http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2002/2002-04-15.htm#2

[luv2bsecure]

Well, if immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, what is an outright ripoff of words? That letter to Langa was my original post! Oh well, I really don't care as it gave it attention. Langa's list is read by tons of people. I think Langa's comments were interesting, but missed the mark as far as what a lot of people are upset about: The lack of a disclaimer that informs people that use of the computer is subject to monitoring.

Nobody would complain about OS lockout software for companies to keep people out of system settings. For example, Best Buy keeps you out of Windows completely with just a demo program until the salesman comes along and hits the hot keys that enable the customer to play around and see how the computer performs. But, we're talking here about computers offering Internet Access to the public.

By the way, I went by a nearby mall that offers free Internet Access at twenty computers at a Kiosk. It is VERY fast too, by the way. The actual screen while surfing is framed with four ads on all sides of the screens - that's their business model. It's a chain and in malls all over. THEY have a sign specifically saying they DO NOT monitor or log any keystrokes or visited sites. You are anonymous so I wouldn't even have a problem with their knowing where I was visiting, but screen shots and keylogging? That's a different story, and they DO NOT do that. That's the way public computers with Internet access should be run. *The company is a member of eTrust.

CompUSA is using the Creator Studio software from NetKey without notice to members of the unsuspecting public. That's wrong.

The writer with PC World left a message on my voicemail and I haven't been able to get back with him. He says he wants me, or somebody I know, to "run a little test" for him. ??????. Not sure what that's about, but I'll keep you informed.

John

[Paul Wilders]

John,

{QUOTE-> Well, if immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, what is an outright ripoff of words? That letter to Langa was my original post! <-QUOTE}

Indeed; the credit is yours - but get used to these things - they happen all the time.

{QUOTE-> I think Langa's comments were interesting, but missed the mark as far as what a lot of people are upset about: The lack of a disclaimer that informs people that use of the computer is subject to monitoring. <-QUOTE}

Fully agreed.

{QUOTE-> The writer with PC World left a message on my voicemail and I haven't been able to get back with him. He says he wants me, or somebody I know, to "run a little test" for him. . Not sure what that's about, but I'll keep you informed. <-QUOTE}

By all means; please keep us posted!

regards.

paul

[Mr.Blaze]

John,

{QUOTE-> Indeed; the credit is yours - but get used to these things - they happen all the time. <-QUOTE}

{QUOTE-> Quote:I think Langa's comments were interesting, but missed the mark as far as what a lot of people are upset about: The lack of a disclaimer that informs people that use of the computer is subject to monitoring. <-QUOTE}






Fully agreed.
*
{QUOTE-> Quote:The writer with PC World left a message on my voicemail and I haven't been able to get back with him. He says he wants me, or somebody I know, to "run a little test" for him. . Not sure what that's about, but I'll keep you informed. <-QUOTE}



By all means; please keep us posted!

regards.

MRBLAZE

Yup it does happen all the time im copy and paste king lol *

[Detox]

*chuckle* that Blaze... hehehe

[Rick]

CompUSA and the like aren't designed to hire the cream of the crop. *Just a sign of the times and why McDonalds has pictures of your food on the cash register. *Even if they tripled pay to attract intelligence and "class" it would likely have to come from outer-space. *Discount stores = discount brains, so lower the bar on your expectations there. * Raise the bar = raise the price, but then people buy it elsewhere for less, so the cycle can't be broken in micro-economics. *Nothing's said you must have stupid and rude punks running the bottom end of the retail bucket, but it might be more appropriate punch out the parents and educators. *The government loves it - stupid people are like sheep...take a good look around - old geesiers like me who would pull a kids liver out and feed it to him for back-talking his mother, will soon be gone - to the relief of many. * Good Luck. *Rick *

[Mr.Blaze]

:Dlol comp usa *mcdonald style ;)cash register with perty pics of putter hardware and software

welcome to comp usa may we take your order?

{ ok thats one pice of crap plus an over priced other thinghy mah bob and .............

;D

[Checkout]

{QUOTE-> :Dlol comp usa *mcdonald style ;)cash register with perty pics of putter hardware and software

welcome to comp usa may we take your order?

{ ok thats one pice of crap plus an over priced other thinghy mah bob and .............

;D <-QUOTE}
Oh, Blaze...the washing up in your head needs to be done straight away! *I didn't follow a single word of that! * ;D