True Image bootable not loading USB2 drivers?

[Britnash]

Dear Acronis technical support,

It appears that True Image (I'm using 8.859) doesn't load hi-speed USB2 drivers when running from the bootable version.

It takes about 20mins to restore a small 6GB Windows XP primary bootable partition in this way.

The True Image file is stored on a USB2 hi-speed portable drive (a Freecom FHD2-Pro 40GB).

The motherboard supports USB2 and data transfer is fast within Windows.

The thing is, earlier builds of True Image restores my image faster, e.g. 5mins. Have you now removed the USB2 hi-speed drivers from True Image? I know it needn't take 20mins to restore a 6GB partition - it didn't used to, either.

Many thanks.

[pnozay]

It seems to be the case. It took 6 hours to backup my 30Gb primary partition using the bootable CD into a USB 2 hard drive! True image 8 bootable CD must be using USB 1 :-\

[Chutsman]

It's gotta be something else ... I created an image (to an external hd) of my 80-gig laptop drive - about 30-gig full - in about 1 hr. 50 min. using normal compression. The ext. hd is connected to a usb 2 port. I did this using the bootable CD build 826.

[Britnash]

Hmm. Strange.

The thing is, a few builds ago it was faster.

Hopefully the Acronis support guru will pop his head round here shortly.

[Donprovo]

I use build 826 which is faster on my hardware. Build 859 is very slow.

[Britnash_temp]

Polite bump.

Thanks tech support. My question was, have you removed the USB2 high-speed drivers from True Image bootable 8.859 and recent prior builds? If they're still there, is there a bug that stops them from working at high speed?

Because that seems to be my experience.

Thanks.

[Britnash_temp]

Is there any reason why Acronis Tech support is ignoring this?

I'm a registered user.

[Acronis Support]

Hello Britnash,

Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software (http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/).

I am sorry for not answering earlier. The drivers for USB2.0 are not deleted and you should be able to restore via USB2.0 at a high speed. Could you please download new build 889, create Acronis Bootable CD with it and check whether the problem persists?

Thank you.
--
Ilya Toytman

[Donprovo]

-{ Quote: "Hello Britnash,

Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software (http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/).

I am sorry for not answering earlier. The drivers for USB2.0 are not deleted and you should be able to restore via USB2.0 at a high speed. Could you please download new build 889, create Acronis Bootable CD with it and check whether the problem persists?

Thank you.
--
Ilya Toytman" }-

The slow driver problem started with 859 and still exists in 889.

[Acronis Support]

Hello Donprovo,

Could you please create Acronis Bootable CD with the build that worked fast for you and create sysinfo.txt file as described at Acronis Help Post (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=55317) using this CD? After that please create the sysinfo.txt with the CD create with build 889 and send both files to support@acronis.com along with the link to this thread. We will compare the files and try to find out the reason for the problem you enountered.

Thank you.
--
Ilya Toytman

[Donprovo]

-{ Quote: "Hello Donprovo,

Could you please create Acronis Bootable CD with the build that worked fast for you and create sysinfo.txt file as described at Acronis Help Post (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=55317) using this CD? After that please create the sysinfo.txt with the CD create with build 889 and send both files to support@acronis.com along with the link to this thread. We will compare the files and try to find out the reason for the problem you enountered.

Thank you.
--
Ilya Toytman" }-

Hi Ilya.

We have the same discussion in two threads.

I do not have a floppy drive as required to create sysinfo. Is there any other way I can get you the info you need?

[Acronis Support]

Hello Donprovo,

The only other way is to take photos with digital camera as I described in the other thread (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=86317).

Thank you.
--
Ilya Toytman

[Menorcaman]

-{ Quote: "The slow driver problem started with 859 and still exists in 889." }-Hi Donprovo,

Just a thought but did you actually time how long it took to create the image to the USB hard drive, or did you go by TI estimated time?

I've just finished some tests whereby I measured the actual elapsed time to create an image of my system drive (6.71GB of used space) using the Bootable Rescue CD from builds 826, 859 and 889 in turn. Results as follows:

Build 826 = 7 mins
Build 859 = 7 mins
Build 889 = 7 mins

As can be seen, as far as my system is concerned, there is absolutely no difference between the three builds. So, unless TI uses different USB drivers for various USB hard drive enclosure chipsets (which I doubt), I'm at a loss to explain why some users are claiming slower performance for builds 859 and 889. Perhaps their HD enclosure chipsets haven't implemented the USB 2.0 standard correctly? There are a couple of lengthy Threads in this forum regarding good/bad USB chipsets, which illustrate that not all chipsets are born equal !!

Regards

[Donprovo]

-{ Quote: "Hi Donprovo,

Just a thought but did you actually time how long it took to create the image to the USB hard drive, or did you go by TI estimated time?

I've just finished some tests whereby I measured the actual elapsed time to create an image of my system drive (6.71GB of used space) using the Bootable Rescue CD from builds 826, 859 and 889 in turn. Results as follows:

Build 826 = 7 mins
Build 859 = 7 mins
Build 889 = 7 mins

As can be seen, as far as my system is concerned, there is absolutely no difference between the three builds. So, unless TI uses different USB drivers for various USB hard drive enclosure chipsets (which I doubt), I'm at a loss to explain why some users are claiming slower performance for builds 859 and 889. Perhaps their HD enclosure chipsets haven't implemented the USB 2.0 standard correctly? There are a couple of lengthy Threads in this forum regarding good/bad USB chipsets, which illustrate that not all chipsets are born equal !!

Regards" }-


Hi Menorca,

I NEVER go by the crazy times that TI8 gives as estimates. If I ever did, I wouldn't live long enough to see a restore. ;)

No, this problem is hardware specific. You are one of the lucky ones who have seen no speed decrease from build 826.

The decrease in performance is not something you need a stopwatch to verify. It's so dramatic that with 859 and 889 you think the computer FROZE!

As with so many other TrueImage 8 flaws, the hardware that it's run on may determine the success or failure of a feature or operation.

As for USB enclosure chipsets, that's a red herring in this case. When you can run the EXACT hardware and see the decrease in 859 and 889 you know that Acronis broke the drivers feature.

In your case, you may never have had a FAST process in the first place so you don't see a decrease in speed.

[Menorcaman]

Hi again Donprovo,

-{ Quote: "As for USB enclosure chipsets, that's a red herring in this case. When you can run the EXACT hardware and see the decrease in 859 and 889 you know that Acronis broke the drivers feature." }-I wouldn't dismiss your USB enclosure chipset just yet!! Acronis continue to add and update the Linux device drivers on the boot rescue CD. Perhaps the USB driver fully implements all aspects of the USB 2 specification correctly whereas the chipset doesn't. Hence when the driver is updated your external enclosure falls over.

-{ Quote: "In your case, you may never have had a FAST process in the first place so you don't see a decrease in speed." }-Hmm. 6.71GB resulted in an image of 4.67GB, which was transferred in 7 minutes. This equates to approx 16 Mbytes/sec "real world" data tranfer rate. Me thinks that's pretty o.k. over a USB 2.0 link. However, as always, I stand ready to be corrected.

Regards

[beenthereb4]

-{ Quote: "Hi again Donprovo,
Hmm. 6.71GB resulted in an image of 4.67GB, which was transferred in 7 minutes. This equates to approx 16 Mbytes/sec "real world" data tranfer rate. Me thinks that's pretty o.k. over a USB 2.0 link. However, as always, I stand ready to be corrected.
Regards" }-

You will not be corrected by me, I would say that is quite fast and USB 2.0 for sure!

[feverfive]

After Ilya suggested I connect my external HD via USB2 instead of firewire (b/c the boot CD didn't load firewire drivers compatible w/ my chipset, apparently), I was able to access my HD outside of Windows. I created an image of 9.8GB in DOS (uncompressed) & it took almost 2 hours complete, & approx. another 20 minutes to verify the image. In Windows, I created a (normal) compressed image immediately after re-boot (around 5.7GB, I think), & it took only around 10-12 minutes.....

[Donprovo]

-{ Quote: "Hi again Donprovo,

I wouldn't dismiss your USB enclosure chipset just yet!! Acronis continue to add and update the Linux device drivers on the boot rescue CD. Perhaps the USB driver fully implement all aspects of the USB 2 specification correctly whereas the chipset doesn't. Hence when the driver is updated your external enclosure falls over.

Hmm. 6.71GB resulted in an image of 4.67GB, which was transferred in 7 minutes. This equates to approx 16 Mbytes/sec "real world" data tranfer rate. Me thinks that's pretty o.k. over a USB 2.0 link. However, as always, I stand ready to be corrected.

Regards" }-

Hi Menorca.

Your speeds certainly prove it's running at USB2. My speeds USED to be in that neighborhood. Here's my history:

Image 40GB drive with 10GB used = 12 minutes with 826, 800 & 796.
Restore above = 22 minutes same as above.

Now with 859 or 889:

Image 40GB drive with 10GB used = 1 Hour and 17 minutes.
Restore above = 1 Hour and 48 minutes.

Nothing changed except swapping the rescue cd's and performing the same operations with the same hardware.

To answer your hypothesis about previously faulty USB2 implementation with my hardware I say not very likely. Here's why:

When I try build 826 vs. 889 on my friend's Dell 700m laptop, I get the same results using his brand new Seagate external 40GB USB2 hard drive.

I also tested his laptop with my external hard drive with the same results. Mine's a 1 month old CompUSA 2.5" enclosure running a Hitachi 60GB 5400rpm Travelstar drive.

Then, I did the exact same tests on his Dimension 3000 desktop and got almost the exact same times as on the laptops although slightly faster. The dramatic falloff in speed with builds 859 and 889 existed on the desktop computer as well.

My conclusion is that all these USB2 enclosure manufacturers cannot be improperly implementing the USB2 protocols as they all carry the same USB2 certification for their enclosures and cables.

It stands to reason that Acronis has done exactly what we suspect and see the evidence of: That is, the drivers in build 859 & 889 are somehow either different and slower or they are impeded by some other change Acronis made in the rescue cd software.

There can be no other reasonable explanation based on all the evidence in these threads. Sure we can come up with a million maybe this and maybe thats but before we get way out in left field with blaming the rest of the pc world for Acronis failures in these two recent builds let's look at their track record with these two recent builds.

Under the circumstances, Acronis should be required to tell US what they did differently in builds 859 and 889 that IN THEIR BEST GUESS would explain why the image and restore speeds dropped a magnitude of 10 times slower on the same mainstream hardware as compared to builds 826, 800 and 796.

[Britnash]

Dear Acronis True Image support,

Thanks for your response. I've tried restoring using 8.889 and it still takes about 20mins from a USB2 external drive TI image of 2GB (uncompressed it's 5-6GB). Remember, an earlier build didn't do this it took 4-5mins.

I'd use an earlier build but I didn't keep it and the earliest I can download from your website is 8.800 which has the same problem.

Please can you tell me how to download the first release of True Image 8? I didn't buy it boxed. I can give you my serial no. and registration details.

Thanks.

[Donprovo]

I would like to hear an update from Acronis as to what they are doing to cure the problem of s-l-o-w rescue cd driver performance in builds 859 and 889?

Or, do they just ignore all of us who are experiencing slow performance with these two builds?

[feverfive]

-{ Quote: "I would like to hear an update from Acronis as to what they are doing to cure the problem of s-l-o-w rescue cd driver performance in builds 859 and 889?

Or, do they just ignore all of us who are experiencing slow performance with these two builds?" }-

I don't mind the slow performance as much as the fact the rescue CD doesn't load drivers capable of reading my firewire connected external HD. When I am connectd via USB2, the performance is VERY slow when not in Windows, but, at least I know (I think) that I can use USB2 to connect my external HD & do a restore if needed. Then again, if/when Acronis gets the firewire issue fixed, I'm sure speed will become an issue for me as well, just to be honest!! ;D

[Acronis Support]

Hello all,

If you have the problem with the slow restoration from USB2 when you use the latest build, please create the sysinfo.txt files with build 889 and with the latest working fast build we will try to find the fix and send all the information to support@acronis.com. It will allow us to investigate the problem.

Please accept our apologies for your inconvenience.

Thank you.
--
Irina Shirokova

[Crissy]

Someone could tell me why cannot I boot from CD???...every advice from support is not useful at this moment!!!

Crissy

[Acronis Support]

Hello Crissy,

Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software (http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/).

First of all, please make sure you use the latest (889) build, which is available on our web site at http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/support/updates/. To get access to updates you should register your software first at http://www.acronis.com/my/products/registration/. Please disable any download managers, internet download/connection boosters, etc. before the download. After that please create Acronis Bootable CD using the latest build.

If the problem persists please boot your computer from the Acronis True Image rescue disc and press F11 key when the "Starting Acronis Loader..." message appears. After you get the "Linux Kernel Settings" prompt, please remove the "quiet" word, click on the "OK" button and wait till the output stops. Please write down several (~10) last strings of the output and send to support@acronis.com along with the description of the situation.

Thank you.
--
Ilya Toytman

[Crissy]

Hi Ilya, I tried to do every thing you describe me, when the laptop boot the last screen I read is "Acronis is loading, please wait...", the machine stops working and the screen is black...

I'm sorry for my bad english, I'm italian, Ihope you understand what I want to tell you.

Thanks Crissy

[Acronis Support]

Hello Crissy,

Your posts are clear so no need to worry about your English. When boot the notebook you get the BIOS post first, then the "Starting Acronis Loader" message, then blue Acronis screen wth Acronis logo and then the message "Loading, please wait" where the computer hangs. You need to press F11 key when you see the "Starting Acronis Loader" message. It may worth pressing F11 prior this message several times because you may skip the message if the performance of the notebook is rather high. After that you will be presented with the "Linux Kernel Settings" box. You need to remove the "quiet" word from it and press the "Ok" button. After that you will see the lines reflecting the boot process. When the output stops you need to write down about 10 last strings of this output and send to us. This will allow us to investigate the problem.

Thank you.
--
Ilya Toytman

[Acronis Support]

Hello Crissy,

Please accept our apologies for your inconvenience.

Do you see the "Starting Acronis Loader..." message? Please note that this message appears before the "Acronis is loading, please wait..." message. Please explain what happens when you press F11.

Thank you.
--
Irina Shirokova

[Crissy]

Hi, thanks to help me. I did every thing you tell me below, I pressed F11, I removed the "quiet" word and I pressed OK, at this point the laptop stops work out and the monitor remain black.
If I write "acpi=off noapic" after "quiet" and press OK I see one more screen than before, I can read "Acronis loading, please wait...", at this point the laptop stops to work and the monitor remain with this last sentence.

I work on a Acer Travelmate 8104, with Win XP Prof, two partitions...C:/ and D:/, I have the image of C:/ on D:/. This is the reason because I want to use the CD media.

Thanks Cri

Hello Crissy,

Your posts are clear so no need to worry about your English. When boot the notebook you get the BIOS post first, then the "Starting Acronis Loader" message, then blue Acronis screen wth Acronis logo and then the message "Loading, please wait" where the computer hangs. You need to press F11 key when you see the "Starting Acronis Loader" message. It may worth pressing F11 prior this message several times because you may skip the message if the performance of the notebook is rather high. After that you will be presented with the "Linux Kernel Settings" box. You need to remove the "quiet" word from it and press the "Ok" button. After that you will see the lines reflecting the boot process. When the output stops you need to write down about 10 last strings of this output and send to us. This will allow us to investigate the problem.

Thank you.
--
Ilya Toytman

[Acronis Support]

Hello Crissy,

Could you please let us know what build of Acronis True Image you used to create Acronis Bootable CD? Also please try to create "Safe" version of Acronis Bootable CD and let us know whether you can boot your computer with it.

Thank you.
--
Ilya Toytman

[Crissy]

I download the last build a coupple of days ago and I use it, I created the boot CD yestarday evening with this last buid. I detached every USB device.

Cris

[Acronis Support]

Hello Cris,

Could you please do the following?

- Open Start\Programs\Accessories\System Tools\System Information;
- Choose the 'Save' option in the 'File' menu, enter the 'File name' and set the field 'Save as type' to 'System Information File (*.NFO)';
- Send the result file to support@acronis.com along with the link to this thread and indicate in the subject that you want to contact Irina Shirokova.

Thank you.
--
Irina Shirokova

[Crissy]

Irina, I do it, I sent you a mail with my e-mail address, <***>, and the file you ask me.

Thanks again

Cris

[Acronis Support]

Hello Cris,

Please let me know your Acronis request # which was sent to you in autoreply? I will find your letter.

Thank you.
--
Irina Shirokova

[Crissy]

Hi Irina, this is the replay fo Acronis on my request!

[Acronis #302930] System Informa

They suggest me to use the iso image, I remember I did this last past days, I download the iso image from your web site and I tried to restore the image eith it but it didn't work again.

Thanks

Cris

[Artemisa]

Hello Cris and Irina,

I followed your thread attentively.
I encounter exactly the same situation as Cris. Because of the same reasons I can not use the full version boot media.

The save version does boot, but it's not of any help for me because I have to restore an image from an external USB drive or from and internal DVD drive. Both are not supported from the save bootable version.

I use nearly the same Laptop as Cris (Acer TravelMate 8103). They are rather new on the marked and full featured. Could that cause these problems?

Have you found a solution or workaround?

To Cris:
What is your BIOS version? Mine is 3C17 from 27 January 2005. There is a newer one: 3C22, could it help?


How it looks now, TI is useless for me, because I'm unable to restore the image if my system partition would be damaged.

I'm interested very much in the further development.

Many thanks
Artemisa

[Cris]

Hallo Artemisa,

sorry for my english, i'm italian.

The version of BIOS of my Travelmate 8104 is Acer 3C19, 01/03/2005 - SMBIOS Version 2.31

Thanks

Cris