Reporting pirate update servers

[Marcos]

If someone finds a pirate NOD32 update server, please report it to
legal-at-eset.sk or pir8es-at-eset.sk

When addressing your email, replace the -at- with the @ symbol

[Firecat]

Thanks Marcos, I just sent an email reporting one server. :)

[DonKid]

Great idea.

But we cant forget about cracked version giving a lot of trial days.

[DonKid]

I think this topic deserves a stick :D

[Xophile]

I will also look out for pirate servers and report them if I find one! NOD deserves better!

One question about "piracy"... I buy NOD, I get a usernamne/password. What stops me from giving it to my neighbour and let him get free updates? Or does the update servers check/log IP-numbers?

[webyourbusiness]

I'm not sure that it's prudent to ask about fraudulent use detection methods used - I'm sure there are some, but as a licensed user, who isn't going to provide usernames/passwords to those that don't need them, I'd not care.

However, I would say that it's trivial to record IPs and usernames/password - tracing the source of a "leaked" u/p would be easy - turning it off would be simple too... they are in control of access to updates of course! ;)

[Xophile]

Well, I certainly get your point :)

I was only being curious...

I tried NOD about 2 years ago. 2 days later I purchased my license and been running it ever since. In august my current subscription will end so I'm definately going for a 2 year (is the more?) upgrade this time!

[Dakhor]

As long as the HTML update from an Admin version does not require a password and username it can be dangerous to start blocking update server. Since i cant easilly restrict access to the update server - its not my fault if people that have worked for me before use it without a valid licence. ( this hasnt hapened yet - the few people that work for me are all females and sales persons and they dont know anything about viruses etc )

But ya Marcos was prob out after something on a much larger scale.

/DaK/

[CyberMew]

Know of some popular NOD32 private update servers few months ago. Posted about it before and got flamed(not really but some guy said it is useless for me to report). So I didn't care anymore. Will post if I find the site again.

[Marauder]

{QUOTE-> Great idea.

But we cant forget about cracked version giving a lot of trial days. <-QUOTE}

Can't you just block them form getting updates ?

[mrtwolman]

{QUOTE-> Know of some popular NOD32 private update servers few months ago. Posted about it before and got flamed(not really but some guy said it is useless for me to report). So I didn't care anymore. Will post if I find the site again. <-QUOTE}
It is not advised to post these servers here. just report it to the adress mentioned in the illegal server thred.

[DonKid]

{QUOTE-> Can't you just block them form getting updates ? <-QUOTE}

I think if Eset put their hands in a cracked version, they will see how it works and fix it.

Best Regards,

DonKid.

[jg88swe]

Ehm....

Why was my post removed ?

>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

[Firecat]

{QUOTE-> Ehm....

Why was my post removed ?

>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( <-QUOTE}
Not removed, but re-located:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=85181

[jg88swe]

ohh ;D

Dident see that..
Never mind then :) thx

[mrtwolman]

{QUOTE-> If someone finds a pirate NOD32 update server, please report it to
legal-at-eset.sk or pir8es-at-eset.sk

When addressing your email, replace the -at- with the @ symbol <-QUOTE}
Looks like the reporting was a success - lot of servers disappeared....

[rothko]

{QUOTE-> Looks like the reporting was a success - lot of servers disappeared.... <-QUOTE}wonder if eset would consider a reward scheme for servers being reported...? ;D

[shamsay]

yeah.maybe give reward for each report:)like give free licence for nod32 :)

[rothko]

...or a case of beer :D

[webyourbusiness]

{QUOTE-> yeah.maybe give reward for each report:)like give free licence for nod32 :) <-QUOTE}

There already is a reward - they will be around to provide the updates you paid for!

[Blackspear]

{QUOTE-> There already is a reward - they will be around to provide the updates you paid for! <-QUOTE}Indeed ;D

[controlmind]

Does any one know how many were reported so far? guess?

controlmind

[webyourbusiness]

Don't know - the hive I found and reported is gone... ;)

[Someone]

Hey not bad. You're doing Eset a BIG Favor. Reporting pirate servers.
But heres the deal. This nanny business, it's goodl only for ESET.

WHY?
Fewer ppl then will have a good AV. So, we have more viruses around. That makes us (YOU) vulnerable. That puts Eset in Business.

As for me, i have relied on pirate servers for quite some time now. But purchased NOD 32 after all. Because it's worth it.

Food for thought.

:-P

[ShunterAlhena]

Die Die Die!!! ;D
After purchasing NOD32 I was enraged when classmates poked me how easy it was for them to get the updates freely. Time for this to end! :) Since pretty much noone who paid for it likes to have these private servers around, they'll go down as hell...
Just one question, Marcos (or anybody else): how do you take a reported server off line?

[ShunterAlhena]

{QUOTE-> Hey not bad. You're doing Eset a BIG Favor. Reporting pirate servers.
But heres the deal. This nanny business, it's goodl only for ESET. <-QUOTE}

Yeah, but most people don't care if they don't have an immediate profit out of this, I think... and survival of Eset is important enough, as well...

{QUOTE-> WHY?
Fewer ppl then will have a good AV. So, we have more viruses around. That makes us (YOU) vulnerable. That puts Eset in Business. <-QUOTE}

It won't make ME vulnerable, as I'm behind NOD32 (and lots of other sofware) :)... as for the pirates, I don't care...

{QUOTE-> As for me, i have relied on pirate servers for quite some time now. But purchased NOD 32 after all. Because it's worth it.

Food for thought.

:-P <-QUOTE}

Me too. And I'm a proud owner since last December. It is really worth it. :)

[dvk01]

{QUOTE-> Hey not bad. You're doing Eset a BIG Favor. Reporting pirate servers.
But heres the deal. This nanny business, it's goodl only for ESET.

WHY?
Fewer ppl then will have a good AV. So, we have more viruses around. That makes us (YOU) vulnerable. That puts Eset in Business.

As for me, i have relied on pirate servers for quite some time now. But purchased NOD 32 after all. Because it's worth it.

Food for thought.

:-P <-QUOTE}

The extremely big risk with Pirate servers apart from the nod copyright etc aspects is that when NOD has no control over what is put on the server what is to stop some scum uploading malware that deliberately targets nod to turn it off without the user knowing so spreading the malware that it is supposed to stop

and don't say it doesn't happen because it does and has with other av's who ave also been pirated by these unscruplulous scum

[waters]

Pirates will just install cracked versions instead.
Untill eset can stop this they will lose out.

[spm]

{QUOTE-> The extremely big risk with Pirate servers apart from the nod copyright etc aspects is that when NOD has no control over what is put on the server what is to stop some scum uploading malware that deliberately targets nod to turn it off without the user knowing so spreading the malware that it is supposed to stop

and don't say it doesn't happen because it does and has with other av's who ave also been pirated by these unscruplulous scum <-QUOTE}
While I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment (let's face it, dishonest people will always attempt to justify themselves by saying that their theft is for the good of all), your argument is false.

If a virus can turn off an AV program, why would it want to do so?? If it can turn it off then it has already bypassed that AVs protection, so there is no need for it to turn off the AV.

The same argument applies to other security progs too.

[webyourbusiness]

{QUOTE-> But heres the deal. This nanny business, it's goodl only for ESET.

WHY?
Fewer ppl then will have a good AV. So, we have more viruses around. That makes us (YOU) vulnerable. That puts Eset in Business. <-QUOTE}

The fact that someone who gets an equal benefit as you for free, now either has to pay, or lose the benefit - that doesn't make the valid/licensed user ANY MORE VULNERABLE.

How would that diminish the protection of us?

I see how it might increase the risk for those that could don't have NOD32 - but not those that have it...

[ShunterAlhena]

{QUOTE-> I see how it might increase the risk for those that could don't have NOD32 - but not those that have it... <-QUOTE}
Yeah, being stripped of your AV carries a certain danger. ;D

[alglove]

{QUOTE-> If a virus can turn off an AV program, why would it want to do so?? If it can turn it off then it has already bypassed that AVs protection, so there is no need for it to turn off the AV.

The same argument applies to other security progs too. <-QUOTE}
I disagree. Just because a certain piece of a virus can bypass security protection does not mean that its payload can also evade it. As an analogy, think of a secret military operation sent into enemy territory to disable radar installations and sabotage communication equipment. Once this small team of specialists has done its job, it is much easier for the rest of the army to invade.

[webyourbusiness]

{QUOTE-> Yeah, being stripped of your AV carries a certain danger. ;D <-QUOTE}


But does ANYONE care how protected/at risk someone who STOLE the software is? I mean, is it something that you, I, or any LEGAL owner of a NOD32 license should:

a. have empathy for
b. feel guilty about
c. worry about their own protect because of it?

I think not...

[Detox]

{QUOTE->
Fewer ppl then will have a good AV. So, we have more viruses around. That makes us (YOU) vulnerable. That puts Eset in Business.
<-QUOTE}


Wrong - any virus that their illegitimate copy would have caught would also obviously be caught by my licensed version. They aren't going to be able to protect me from some spreading virus that my version won't get.. your argument makes as much sense as a styrofoam sledgehammer - nobody can see the use except the guy trying to sell it ;-)

[webyourbusiness]

{QUOTE-> Pirates will just install cracked versions instead.
Untill eset can stop this they will lose out. <-QUOTE}


a cracked version is little use if it can't get definition updates.

With a reasonable static piece of software, such as a graphic program, it's not that big a deal if you don't get updates - with a protection tool, you need to get updates, as the threats increase/mutate daily.

Do you care if someone is running a year old cracked AV solution with no update ability - they're the ones deluding themselves that they are safe - in the end, someone who thinks their computer isn't worth protecting properly will get what they deserve.

However - a cracked version with the ability to access updates for free - that's got to stomped on - and then, if the user thinks the software is worthwhile, they'll either find another way to get their updates, find another solution - or become a REGISTERED, PAID UP user of the software.

Obviously, if they do the latter - we all benefit - as Eset will have MORE RESOURCES to throw at protecting us all!

[Firecat]

{QUOTE-> Pirates will just install cracked versions instead.
Untill eset can stop this they will lose out. <-QUOTE}
I dont think that users of a pirated NOD32 would want to peddle around suspicious sites for a new crack of NOD32 every time a new component upgrade is released (and possibly get their PCs infected in the process)...;)

I am happy to own a legal license of NOD32. :)

[NOD32 Lover]

道高一仗，魔高一尺！
盗版万岁！万岁！万万岁！

[mrtwolman]

{QUOTE-> 道高一仗，魔高一尺！
盗版万岁！万岁！万万岁！ <-QUOTE}
Who is able to translate ?

[zashita]

{QUOTE-> 道高一仗,魔高一尺!
盗版万岁!万岁!万万岁! <-QUOTE}
Maybe it is a code that only Nod32 pirates can understand ;D ;D

[The Gorilla]

{QUOTE-> 道高一仗，魔高一尺！
盗版万岁！万岁！万万岁！ <-QUOTE}

Google translates as

"High one weaponry, evil spirit height one foot! Pirates long live! Long live! 万万岁!"

Obvious really when you look at it long enough ??? ??? ???

[zashita]

{QUOTE-> Google translates as

"High one weaponry, evil spirit height one foot! Pirates long live! Long live! 万万岁!"

Obvious really when you look at it long enough ??? ??? ??? <-QUOTE}
yes if it is Chinese, but in japanese it said:
"Road high one 仗, demon high one shaku! Stealing edition ten thousand? Ten thousand? 万万?"
maybe google is a little disturbed ;D ;D

[CyberMew]

It actually means that even if you can close this shit, there will always be solutions to 'cracking' it. Hurray to pirates and hurray forever!
Something like that.

[Dakhor]

You cant fight pirates and win - but that dont mean u shouldnt fight them. But if that fight makes your product less user friendly to the paying user - then you have lost me as a customer. ( adobe pain in the ass crap for instance )


/DaK/

[mrtwolman]

I just wonder what will come out as next.... A headhunting program in the ol' good wild west style ???

[waters]

Why should cracked versions need pirate servers.
People making uninformed coments should realise they are the latest trial versions,that are cracked,so they last after 30 days,and update in a normal way,through the trial servers.
To stop these, eset needs to stop trial versions being updated in this way ,or shut down all p2p programes.

[lynchknot]

I don't know. I don't think it's a good idea for people to go looking for pirate servers and such. I got a virus just visiting the wrong site (link) in a google search for legit software.

[Edwin024]

I find this witchhunt scary, at the least. Let them go. If eset really has troubles from pirated versions, well, they shouldn't be in business at all. But the fact that NOD32 is a strong AV program makes me believe that Eset can live from the people who are paying for their licenses.

[webyourbusiness]

{QUOTE-> Why should cracked versions need pirate servers. <-QUOTE}


Because the updates are served from update servers which are Eset owned. A valid username/password is required. If a username/password gets compromised, it's trivial to track the number of people using it - contact the original owner, give them a new u/p and terminate the abused one.

How would a cracked version of ANY software get past update server side authentication of a username/password - other than using a currently valid one? The very act of connecting to an official server leaves a trail, which can be audited.

Even a "cracked trial" version will have to contact an update server - I seem to recall that the update server for trials is different- adding tracking to those connections will certainly help, and abusive fixed IP connections for more than the trial period can be pulled from the logfiles VERY easily. Proxies and anonymizers would make the job more difficult to track though... this is probably about as far as needs to be discussed here - the fact that there are those out there getting for free the hard work of others, and the same benefits that many thousands pay for legitimately, is enough reason to put in place measures to prevent it... end of story!

[DonKid]

Well,

I've seen some cracked version of NOD, but Eset said sending it to them won't help so much. :(

[webyourbusiness]

Donkid,

I think that's because once it's out there - it's out there. If a cracked version can't get updates though... what use is it? ;)

regards

Greg

[DonKid]

I´ve read the cracked version makes the trial version to update for 400 years.

[webyourbusiness]

just because it's not going to time out, doesn't mean it's going to be able to grab update - ip blocking, updates overwriting the "crack" etc... ;)

[jg88swe]

{QUOTE-> just because it's not going to time out, doesn't mean it's going to be able to grab update - ip blocking, updates overwriting the "crack" etc... ;) <-QUOTE}
haha ohh really?

*puppy* :-*

[Smokey]

{QUOTE-> just because it's not going to time out, doesn't mean it's going to be able to grab update - ip blocking, updates overwriting the "crack" etc... ;) <-QUOTE}
That's wishfull thinking..........::)

[webyourbusiness]

thieves will always be thieves... find a better lock, some thief finds a better way to break it.. it's not a new concept - the only constants are that there are honest users who pay and thieves who refuse to pay. Honesty vs dishonesty is not going to disappear... does it make stealing the software and it's update right? Only you and your conscience can decide what's "right".

[Smokey]

{QUOTE-> does it make stealing the software and it's update right? Only you and your conscience can decide what's "right". <-QUOTE}
That wasn't the issue/topic.;)

[anon]

you know i'm really taking a big risk by saying this.. cause my ip is can be seen by the mods.. but as far as piracy goes you'd be surprised how often it can lead to actual sales.

for instance, take me, a person who had been using norton for a long time and HATED it. so i went around looking for a new antivirus. i heard about nod32 but i wasn't sure it was as good as some people said it was, so, being the internet savvy person i am, i went ahead and downloaded the pirated copy of nod32. While the user interface is definately clunky, there really should be the current user interface part of a toggable "advanced mode" and the default one should be simplified yet easy to use... especially when it comes to cleaning... it took me awhile to get use to clicking scan and clean instead of just scan (which by the way seems sort of ponitless). Anyway long story short i used the pirated version for longer than the trial version would've allowed me. I loved how NOD32 wasn't a resource hog, how well it detected some viruses norton left on my computer, and.. after having a bout of spyware and having to come to these forums, how deticated the people are who work for them and those on these forum that are loyal to them. I decided to go ahead and buy the software despite being a college student who really doesn't have the money to spend on software i typically can't afford. While i bought a student license to save money, i bought a license for each one of the computers i own (1 laptop i got as a grad present, one 4 year old desktop), plus one for my brother, and my parent's computer... 4 in total.

There will always be some who pirate and freeload for the hell of it... but from my experience pirates are mostly those who lack the funds to get what they otherwise want/need and without the piracy outlet they wouldn't have spent the money on 90% of what they downloaded to begin with. While most of you i'm sure see this as wrong.. them getting for free what you paid for, these same people (as they grow up and get jobs that can afford the prices of such things)... as i've seen not only in myself but in many of my friends who use to do the same thing in high school.... end up going and buying the things they truely like, while simply downloading and uninstalling the demos of the ones they don't like that much. On top of that... things like automatic updates (or lack thereof) in pirated versions are flaky at best, online multiplayer isn't an option nowadays with the simple authorization servers/cd keys that games have implemented, and patches/new versions of software are a pain in the ass to find, never mind that they're available for the pirated software WEEKS after it comes out.

Anyway while i understand what you're doing, and lately i find myself agreeing with it more and more, i want you all to understand that piracy isn't all black and white, those who 'steal' (quotes because really its copyright infridgement) and those who don't... and that every pirated version is a loss of a sale. Its not. I'm proof, and i'm not just some anomaly. You'd be surprised how many people who truely love the software they download illegally go ahead and support the company that made it by buying it. Just keep that in mind.

[anon]

by the way i'd like to point out that i decided to update not because the updates ran out, i had the cracked trial version i believe.. so it couldn't. i simply decided that after 3 months of use or so and it detecting the a few viruses ect that it was simply time to support a good piece of software.

[webyourbusiness]

{QUOTE-> those who 'steal' (quotes because really its copyright infridgement) and those who don't... and that every pirated version is a loss of a sale. Its not. I'm proof, and i'm not just some anomaly. You'd be surprised how many people who truely love the software they download illegally go ahead and support the company that made it by buying it. Just keep that in mind. <-QUOTE}

use of software to which you don't have a paid for license is not copyright infringement - it's use of software without a paid for license, which is obtaining goods/services without paying for them - ergo - theft.

Whether an illegal user later becomes a paid up licensed user or not is not the issue - did you then offer to pay for the services/software/updates and period of time that you were using the software for that was illegitimately obtained? I doubt it. Just because you are NOW paying, doesn't mean that you don't sell owe for the time you stole.

If you were to try and get away with that in the real world, an analogy might be using an office, or renting a house - not paying for several months, then beginning to pay - do you have an obligation - legal, moral or otherwise, to pay for the time you used that has not been paid for? Think about it... someone who uses software without the proper license who THEN becomes a licensed user isn't doing so for anyone's benefit than their own in my opinion - be it for ease of support, ease of upgrades or some other reason - sure you can continue to steal updates, until such times as the software stops receiving updates because it's out of date - but that's still being a thief - but when the upgrades become available, and the crack won't work, or won't allow an upgrade and it's going to be several weeks for a new crack to appear, and until that happens, you're exposed... so you paid up? And you paid for future upgrades, but neglect to mention the 'back-rent' that you owe... Doesn't that about sum it up?

[Edwin024]

What a pitty that you don't see anything in the money aspect that was brought up. I do understand that. And that's why I have the opinion to let it go. As long as more people are paying for it, a few 'poor' studentlike types can do whatever they like. I don't mind. And Eset shouldn't either. Or make all software as cheap as for instance Pennock Email Notifier, which goes for 5 dollars. Or mst Defrag, a great program for just 9 dollars. Or Netveda firewall, which is for free! A thing to consider. AV-proggies are mostly way too expensive. And NOD32 is no exception, alas.

[SSK]

I disagree with the idea that software should be cheap. It is priced as the developer sees fit. It's up to us to decide if we want to buy it or not.

Cracking software to use without payment to the developer is theft. Simple as that. And therefore it is ESET's right to act against this theft.

[Edwin024]

less expensive... Eset can't stop it anyway.

[Detox]

OK - that's enough of all this. The topic of the thread was meant to be as follows:

{QUOTE-> If someone finds a pirate NOD32 update server, please report it to
legal-at-eset.sk or pir8es-at-eset.sk

When addressing your email, replace the -at- with the @ symbol <-QUOTE}

The topic is not the ethics or "pros and cons" of software piracy, it is just what I have quoted above. Thread closed until such time as ESET or admin might decide it should be re-opened.