simple question about hardware keyloggers

[subzerox]

I have a simple question about hardware keyloggers, but don't know if there is a simple answer for it?

I assume and correct me if i am wrong, if a hardware keylogger is installed between the keyboard and your computer, normal anti-keylogger software wouldn't be able to pick up on this right?, so basicly are hardware keyloggers undetectable by anti-keylogger scanning engines/software?

Or is this just a myth?

[Paranoid2000]

Correct, hardware keyloggers cannot be detected by software. However they do need to be connected to the keyboard (though it is possible to purchase special keyboards with loggers built in) so can usually be spotted if you check where the lead is connected. One such logger is the Key Ghost (http://www.keyghost.com/Index.htm) so you can check their site for more details.

[subzerox]

Thank you for clearing that up Paranoid2000, i have visited this website anti-keylogger.com and found this on their introduction page and this is their sales pitch, so to speak...

-{ Quote: " The PrivacyKeyboard™ software for Microsoft® Windows® 2000/XP is the first product of its kind in the world that can provide every computer with strong protection against ALL types of keylogging programs (keyloggers) and keylogging hardware devices (hardware keyloggers), both known and unknown, currently in use or presently being developed worldwide. It has proved a potential of creation a real anti-spy software product without use of any signature bases." }-

Extracting the remark about detecting all types of keylogging hardware devices in this quote i can safely presume this is a lot of BS right?
Is this product as good as it states?, anyone any expierence with this, this statement about detecting hardware keyloggers is quite disturbing if this can't be done, and you know what the expression is "little lie, big lie" and that is most of the times true when it comes to commerce.

What other software is reputable for being good in detecting keyloggers other than PG (process guard) and specially designed for dealing with keyloggers?.

[Paranoid2000]

My look at that page turned up the following:-{ Quote: "PrivacyKeyboard™ software for Microsoft® Windows® 2000/XP is the first product of its kind in the world that provides every computer with strong protection against spy software, both known and unknown, currently in use or presently being developed worldwide." }-Since this paragraph excludes mention of hardware keyloggers, it is certainly plausible - they are presumably blocking global hooks like Process Guard does, only with a much higher price tag (more than double PG's price).

[Paranoid2000]

Hmm...they do mention "Protection against hardware keyloggers" in their Features List lower down. Unless they include a module that delivers a 110/240v supply to the keyboard cable, I rather doubt their sincerity here. On the other hand, their software could just disable the keyboard entirely and force you to use Windows' virtual keyboard exclusively instead. ;)

[beetlejuice69]

Well it comes with a 100% working trial so I guess he could check it out. ;)

[anti-spy]

-{ Quote: "On the other hand, their software could just disable the keyboard entirely and force you to use Windows' virtual keyboard exclusively instead. ;)" }-

I hope your not saying that MS onscreen keyboard can't be beat, because it can. Any hacker/spy, who is even at a novice level, can easily beat the MS onscreen keyboard. ;)

[Paranoid2000]

-{ Quote: "I hope your not saying that MS onscreen keyboard can't be beat, because it can." }-Not by a hardware keylogger. ;)

[diginsight]

I did some research on countermeasures against hardware keyloggers and to my surprise I discovered that the hardware keyloggers I reviewed do not support USB keyboards.

Could it be as simple as not using a PS/2 keyboard to defend agaisnt hardware keyloggers?

[Paranoid2000]

-{ Quote: "Could it be as simple as not using a PS/2 keyboard to defend agaisnt hardware keyloggers?" }-Nope... (http://www.keyghost.com/USB-Keylogger.htm)

[diginsight]

At least it's beta ;)

[Vikorr]

Haven't looked at MS privacy keyboard, but I've heard that there is a similar keyboard, used for inputting passwords (cause it'd be too slow for anything else), where the letters appear on screen, and to select a letter you hold your mouse cursor over the letter/number for a couple of seconds.

[subzerox]

-{ Quote: "Hmm...they do mention "Protection against hardware keyloggers" in their Features List lower down." }-

The quote that is posted is copied and pasted directly from their website and is not only present in their features list but also in their sales pitch.( i have checked it just now again to verify and you are right on the homepage it is only included on their features list, another page contains the exact text that i quoted in a post)

-{ Quote: "Unless they include a module that delivers a 110/240v supply to the keyboard cable, I rather doubt their sincerity here" }-
So unless there isn't any form of hardware deliverd with the software itself, the hardware keyloggers aren't detectable? So hardware keyloggers aren't detectable at all with anti-keylogger software?
Only with some sort of hardware countermeasure you could be completely sure?, even though you could check offcourse yourself for a placement of a hardware keylogger between the computer and the keyboard but who knows how sophisticated these things can be, maybe they can even have the diameter of a cable and is perhaps placed in a cable and swithed with the "old" one.
Now that would be a hard as hell to detect keylogger wouldn't it, if software is not capable in detecting such hardware keyloggers :o .

So back to the main question, are hardware keyloggers detectable by anti- keylogger software, yes or no?. Emphisizing on the word software and hardware countermeasures of all sorts are not included, only software.

[Paranoid2000]

-{ Quote: "So back to the main question, are hardware keyloggers detectable by anti- keylogger software, yes or no?. Emphisizing on the word software and hardware countermeasures of all sorts are not included, only software." }-No, hardware keyloggers are not detectable (if previous posts did not make that clear enough) - they require no drivers, services or configuration changes to Windows which is what software anti-keyloggers can detect. The only possible method of detecting a hardware keylogger would be to monitor the voltage/current coming through the keyboard connector (a hardware keylogger would need some of this to power itself) and that would require hardware.

A USB-based keylogger's power usage may be easier to detect since USB does include the ability to monitor the current drawn by devices, but only if you know exactly what is connected and its normal power consumption.

[subzerox]

Ok, thank you Paranoid2000 for your quick reply and your oppinion on this matter.

One question though if you don't mind, what software for detecting non-hardware keyloggers are reputable for their high detection rate of software keyloggers?, anyone can share offcourse ;)

Other than PG