BOClean: Is a new version likely soon?

[AShaR]

Although BOClean is offering a great deal as their offer stands with the current release, there are a couple of things which need to be cleared up. The free upgrades apply only to this version of BOClean - from their website:

-{ Quote: "Both Updates and Upgrades FREE of charge:
Version series 2 and 4 " }-

The next version of BOClean will be offered to customers at half price.

-{ Quote: "Version series 2 and 4 BOClean Maintenance Agreement:

Privacy Software Corporation will provide upgrades deemed critical to your continued protection at no charge upon the user's request to upgrade@nsclean.com. Users must be verified against our customer database. We will not upgrade any customer who does not appear in the database on the date of their request, must re-request. We will notify any user that has registered with us upon its release. Value based, or feature based version releases will be offered in the future at half the regular price to our customers. " }-

Some questions:

1) Does this mean that if I buy BOClean current version I would have to pay half price again if a new version was released in a month?

2) Will the user licence still allow downloads to more than one pc?

3) Will updates still be free for the life of the product (new version)

4) When can we expect a new version if indeed there is going to be one?

[BlueZannetti]

-{ Quote: "Some questions:

1) Does this mean that if I buy BOClean current version I would have to pay half price again if a new version was released in a month? " }-It is always best to contact the vendor directly to obtain the most current pricing and licence information.

That said, my interpretation of this (http://www.mickeytheman.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=924) posting is that any BOClean owner who made the purchase from 15 Nov 2003 will receive a free upgrade to BOClean 5.

-{ Quote: "2) Will the user licence still allow downloads to more than one pc?" }-I assume that determination will be made at release time. I believe that you have to allow vendors some flexibility with respect to future developments, although I've not seen any indication that they are about to change the current license structure.

-{ Quote: "3) Will updates still be free for the life of the product (new version)" }-Do you mean program updates or definition updates? That answer may be different for each, although I do not know the answer to either question.

My personal opinion on this is that given the explosion in trojans and other malware over the past year or so, providing free definition file updates for the life of a product is not a commercially viable approach. In the past, this practice was easy to understand since the relatively slow appearance of new trojans allowed a vendor/programmer to work on both updating the application and maintaining current definition file coverage of the new malware. The volume of new malware now appearing on the scene basically means that a relatively high percentage of staff time simply has to be focused solely on creating new definitions. The only way to support this on an on-going basis is to have a revenue stream that pays for this activity.

I know that some of the major AT producers have continued to provide free definition file updates to all users for the lifetime of a product. At some point, and again this is my personal opinion, all vendors will have to bite the bullet and start providing these updates on a subscription basis.

-{ Quote: "4) When can we expect a new version if indeed there is going to be one?" }-Although PSC announced that work had commenced on version 5 in 2003, this (http://forum.gladiator-antivirus.com/index.php?showtopic=8438) post suggests that some of the patching being done by Microsoft may be hindering progress, at least that's my interpretation.

As is my usual recommendation, although it is useful to understand update/upgrade policies as far as they are defined for future releases, it is really important to make purchasing decisions based on what is available and can be installed on your machine today. Don't make decisions on what could be available at some future date since implementation and availability details are always fluid.

Blue

[AShaR]

-{ Quote: "It is always best to contact the vendor directly to obtain the most current pricing and licence information.

That said, my interpretation of this (http://www.mickeytheman.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=924) posting is that any BOClean owner who made the purchase from 15 Nov 2003 will receive a free upgrade to BOClean 5." }-

That would be great but I think it may have been superceded by the statement which appears on their website which says:

Value based, or feature based version releases will be offered in the future at half the regular price to our customers.

In any case I will follow up your suggestion to contact BOClean directly and see if I can get an answer.



-{ Quote: "Do you mean program updates or definition updates? That answer may be different for each, although I do not know the answer to either question." }-

I meant definition updates. At the moment there are free updates for the life of the product, whereas some rivals charge for a yearly license.

-{ Quote: "My personal opinion on this is that given the explosion in trojans and other malware over the past year or so, providing free definition file updates for the life of a product is not a commercially viable approach. In the past, this practice was easy to understand since the relatively slow appearance of new trojans allowed a vendor/programmer to work on both updating the application and maintaining current definition file coverage of the new malware. The volume of new malware now appearing on the scene basically means that a relatively high percentage of staff time simply has to be focused solely on creating new definitions. The only way to support this on an on-going basis is to have a revenue stream that pays for this activity.

I know that some of the major AT producers have continued to provide free definition file updates to all users for the lifetime of a product. At some point, and again this is my personal opinion, all vendors will have to bite the bullet and start providing these updates on a subscription basis." }-

That is fair enough, but then customers on a budget may be paying for an AV whixh provides pretty good AT protection in any case. I use McAfee and it is very good. However I have a family pc running Avast as well, and would be prepared to pay for a dedicated AT for peace of mind, which is why I am drawn to BOClean as the costs are at the moment a one off payment.
-{ Quote: "Although PSC announced that work had commenced on version 5 in 2003, this (http://forum.gladiator-antivirus.com/index.php?showtopic=8438) post suggests that some of the patching being done by Microsoft may be hindering progress, at least that's my interpretation.

As is my usual recommendation, although it is useful to understand update/upgrade policies as far as they are defined for future releases, it is really important to make purchasing decisions based on what is available and can be installed on your machine today. Don't make decisions on what could be available at some future date since implementation and availability details are always fluid.

" }-

I understand that and you are right of course. Just trying to get a rough idea of what might be in the works as when there hasn't been a new release for some time it's usually a fair bet there will be one in the pipeline. Thanks for your answers in any case, very useful. :)

[tazdevl]

Kevin might be holding out to see what TDS4 looks like. LOL they could be waiting a long time. There have been some interesting hints tossed out there. However, I would hope they aren't going to wait much longer to release version 5 because BOClean is losing sales to Ewido and other AT apps due to lack of an OD scanner.

They've had nearly a year to deal with MS patching, I doubt that's still an issue any longer from a development perspective.

Lastly... version 5 will be half price. If they have an interim release for version 4, I think it's safe to assume that it will be free. Same policy as with every other developer.

[john2g]

-{ Quote: " However, I would hope they aren't going to wait much longer to release version 5 because BOClean is losing sales to Ewido and other AT apps due to lack of an OD scanner." }-

How do you know that?

Most people already have an OD scanner: I use SAV.

[AShaR]

I don't think on demand scanners are essential, there are at least two out there that are free, and very good ones at that.

[bellgamin]

-{ Quote: "That said, my interpretation of this (http://www.mickeytheman.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=924) posting is that any BOClean owner who made the purchase from 15 Nov 2003 will receive a free upgrade to BOClean 5." }-
What I found by visiting the above link was a blatant case of BOClean doing a bash job on one of its competitors, A-square.

BOClean started the bashing on their own forum, and then, when A-square tried to give its side of the story, the BOClean rep answered, "We're not going to play this "my toy is better" anymore." Amazing!

[BlueZannetti]

-{ Quote: "What I found by visiting the above link was a blatant case of BOClean doing a bash job on one of its competitors, A-square.

BOClean started the bashing on their own forum, and then, when A-square tried to give its side of the story, the BOClean rep answered, "We're not going to play this "my toy is better" anymore." Amazing!" }-bellgamin,

I posted the link to provide a firm reference to the statement regarding a publicly stated purchase start date for free upgrades when BOClean 5 arrives.

You're quite right, that specific example offered in that thread was not appropriate, and for those researching a purchase in 2005, the specific comparison is now, obviously, out of date.

Blue

[mercurie]

-{ Quote: "What I found by visiting the above link was a blatant case of BOClean doing a bash job on one of its competitors, A-square.

BOClean started the bashing on their own forum, and then, when A-square tried to give its side of the story, the BOClean rep answered, "We're not going to play this "my toy is better" anymore." Amazing!" }-Hmmm... :-\ a war of words and a little boasting..."bashing" I think is a little strong. A nice lively debate is good. I see no need to rush out 5. We just got 4.12.

Oh by the way on my Emachine I use A2 Free scanner and BoClean I like them both. As far as the $$, I have used BoClean on two home machines for several years I think I started with 4.10 does that sound right? Half price...I will be glad to contribute to the cause....see below ;)

[tazdevl]

-{ Quote: "How do you know that?

Most people already have an OD scanner: I use SAV." }-

Read other threads in the forum, on the net, pretty easy to read the tides. BTW most people don't have an AT OD scanner, most security enthusiasts do.

When an OD scanner is a consideration as part of the AT purchase process, there's a gap in expectations that needs to be addressed. BOClean is the only one that doesn't have an OD scanner out of the popular ATs. Lastly BOClean 5 wouldn't have an OD scanner if the gang at PSC didn't feel it was necessary.

[mercurie]

-{ Quote: "Read other threads in the forum, on the net, pretty easy to read the tides. BTW most people don't have an AT OD scanner, most security enthusiasts do.

When an OD scanner is a consideration as part of the AT purchase process, there's a gap in expectations that needs to be addressed. BOClean is the only one that doesn't have an OD scanner out of the popular ATs. Lastly BOClean 5 wouldn't have an OD scanner if the gang at PSC didn't feel it was necessary." }-Competition is getting tougher and the nasties are getting more difficult too...I'll agree on that basis ;)

[SSK]

-{ Quote: "Competition is getting tougher and the nasties are getting more difficult too...I'll agree on that basis ;)" }-

Oh you mean getting caught between a rock and a hard place, then? ;D

[sinbad370]

-{ Quote: "Read other threads in the forum, on the net, pretty easy to read the tides. BTW most people don't have an AT OD scanner, most security enthusiasts do.

When an OD scanner is a consideration as part of the AT purchase process, there's a gap in expectations that needs to be addressed. BOClean is the only one that doesn't have an OD scanner out of the popular ATs. Lastly BOClean 5 wouldn't have an OD scanner if the gang at PSC didn't feel it was necessary." }-


I have noticed this, too. Over the last year the threads have changed; it’s no longer just the big 3.

[nameless]

-{ Quote: "BOClean 5 wouldn't have an OD scanner if the gang at PSC didn't feel it was necessary." }-Sure they would. I've seen Kevin say--many times--that the only reason he'll be adding a file scanner to BOClean is to satisfy the demand for it; and not because he personally sees a need for it. In typical Kevin fashion, he's derided the desire for an on-demand scanner as wanting a "Fisher-Price busybox" to play with... A quote I admit to have stolen for my own use, since I agree with it.

I'm really not sure why anyone would demand a file scanner in BOClean. First of all, the whole raison d'etre of BOClean was that it had a unique approach, and picked up where your shitty AV scanner left off. Secondly, if you want a toy to play with, there are a slew of free ones available. But come on now--what "security enthusiast" who demands a file scanner in BOClean doesn't already have two or ten AT file scanners already? Are you going to tell me that you don't already have A2 and/or Ewido and/or TDS-e and/or TH installed?

Why can't the people who have always liked BOClean for what it is have it kept that way? Why must PSC be forced to bastardize BOClean into conformity? Why have them waste hours and hours of dev time on a "Fisher-Price busybox", rather than make it a solid product in other aspects... Or rather than getting it done months sooner?

[JimIT]

-{ Quote: "
Why can't the people who have always liked BOClean for what it is have it kept that way? Why must PSC be forced to bastardize BOClean into conformity? Why have them waste hours and hours of dev time on a "Fisher-Price busybox", rather than make it a solid product in other aspects... Or rather than getting it done months sooner?" }-

Damn skippy.

Couldn't agree more!

;D

[Mephisto]

One of the other big reasons Bo Clean loses out in sales to other scanners is that Bo Clean is absolutely the only Anti-Trojan scanner that does not have a trial version. I would never put down the kind of money they want for this program without ever even seeing it let alone testing it.

[Pilli]

-{ Quote: " I would never put down the kind of money they want for this program without ever even seeing it let alone testing it." }-True they do not have a trial but they do honour their no quibble money back guarantee if you have any problems. :)

Pilli

[NAMOR]

-{ Quote: "I would never put down the kind of money they want for this program without ever even seeing it let alone testing it." }-

I can understand that...Anywho, I did and I don't regret it. I also believe that they are the only anti-trojan company that offers a homeuser to install on multiple machines (under 5 in household). Which makes it a pretty good deal.

[BlueZannetti]

-{ Quote: "One of the other big reasons Bo Clean loses out in sales to other scanners is that Bo Clean is absolutely the only Anti-Trojan scanner that does not have a trial version. I would never put down the kind of money they want for this program without ever even seeing it let alone testing it." }-Mephisto,

I had similar qualms previously also.., until I noticed that complaints regarding BOClean were virtually absent, that kudos to Nancy and Kevin regarding support were very prevalent, that the opinions of many who I had grown to respect were univeral in their positive opinion of BOClean, and the clincher (as already mentioned by Namor) were the licensing terms. I was so impressed after purchasing a discount copy that I went with a direct PSC purchase to outfit a new PC when we grew to 5 PC's in my home.

I recommend BOClean with qualification to any who ask my opinion.

Blue

[tazdevl]

-{ Quote: "Sure they would. I've seen Kevin say--many times--that the only reason he'll be adding a file scanner to BOClean is to satisfy the demand for it; and not because he personally sees a need for it. In typical Kevin fashion, he's derided the desire for an on-demand scanner as wanting a "Fisher-Price busybox" to play with... A quote I admit to have stolen for my own use, since I agree with it.

I'm really not sure why anyone would demand a file scanner in BOClean. First of all, the whole raison d'etre of BOClean was that it had a unique approach, and picked up where your shitty AV scanner left off. Secondly, if you want a toy to play with, there are a slew of free ones available. But come on now--what "security enthusiast" who demands a file scanner in BOClean doesn't already have two or ten AT file scanners already? Are you going to tell me that you don't already have A2 and/or Ewido and/or TDS-e and/or TH installed?

Why can't the people who have always liked BOClean for what it is have it kept that way? Why must PSC be forced to bastardize BOClean into conformity? Why have them waste hours and hours of dev time on a "Fisher-Price busybox", rather than make it a solid product in other aspects... Or rather than getting it done months sooner?" }-

My point was that they deemed it necessary because they were losing sales.

Step off the soapbox and eat more fiber. I've been happy with BOClean, except for the lack of resolution of some CPU spikes I'm seeing.

[Infinity]

Originally Posted by nameless
quote (doesn't work too good:))
Sure they would. I've seen Kevin say--many times--that the only reason he'll be adding a file scanner to BOClean is to satisfy the demand for it; and not because he personally sees a need for it. In typical Kevin fashion, he's derided the desire for an on-demand scanner as wanting a "Fisher-Price busybox" to play with... A quote I admit to have stolen for my own use, since I agree with it.

I'm really not sure why anyone would demand a file scanner in BOClean. First of all, the whole raison d'etre of BOClean was that it had a unique approach, and picked up where your shitty AV scanner left off. Secondly, if you want a toy to play with, there are a slew of free ones available. But come on now--what "security enthusiast" who demands a file scanner in BOClean doesn't already have two or ten AT file scanners already? Are you going to tell me that you don't already have A2 and/or Ewido and/or TDS-e and/or TH installed?

Why can't the people who have always liked BOClean for what it is have it kept that way? Why must PSC be forced to bastardize BOClean into conformity? Why have them waste hours and hours of dev time on a "Fisher-Price busybox", rather than make it a solid product in other aspects... Or rather than getting it done months sooner?

I think you are right about this all, so I won't just repeat you...But I say this:I think that the best part of boclean is their memory scanner so lets leave it that way...
There isn't a need for a plain file scanner...as long as Bocleanis is doing what it's supposed to do then that would be great...just be good in one thing, be the best and get specialized in it then do what everybody is doing and partially free.

[bellgamin]

-{ Quote: "Why can't the people who have always liked BOClean for what it is have it kept that way? Why must PSC be forced to bastardize BOClean into conformity?" }-
Perhaps for the same reason that the kid who lives next door bought a 9-year old, very ordinary Nissan Sentra, then put the following crap-o-la on it: dual exhausts, a spoiler, a boom-box that melts the wax in your ears from 3 blocks away, & mega-bucks worth of wheels & tires so huge that you practically need a ladder to climb into his car.;)

[nameless]

-{ Quote: "My point was that they deemed it necessary because they were losing sales." }-I can see how they would be losing sales, given how so many users are clamoring for a file scanner, and criticizing BOClean's lack of one. And when biased reviewers do the same thing, of course it's going to hurt their sales.

-{ Quote: "Step off the soapbox and eat more fiber." }-How very creative of you. I'd be the first to admit that I'm very opinionated, but since when is there something wrong with giving one's opinion? OK, so I came off strong--I'm hoping some people find it a nice contrast to the nonstop ass-kissing that goes on in this place.

[Infinity]

-{ Quote: "need a ladder to climb into his car." }-

at least: if he isn't too lazy to climb on such a ladder ;D
for the same money, he will let someone else drive his car...

[bellgamin]

-{ Quote: "I'm hoping some people find it a nice contrast to the nonstop ass-kissing that goes on in this place." }-I found your tongue-in-cheek remarks to be hilariously droll. As to the kissing of equus asinus -- if the donkey doesn't mind, why not? ;D

Meanwhile, back on the thread: a beautiful combination (for those who want to OD on OD) is BOClean + a-squared free. The best of all possible worlds IMHO.

[Howard]

-{ Quote: "a beautiful combination (for those who want to OD on OD) is BOClean + a-squared free. The best of all possible worlds IMHO." }-

Running BOClean + a-squared Personal here and it was love at first boot ;D

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "I found your tongue-in-cheek remarks to be hilariously droll. As to the kissing of equus asinus -- if the donkey doesn't mind, why not? ;D

Meanwhile, back on the thread: a beautiful combination (for those who want to OD on OD) is BOClean + a-squared free. The best of all possible worlds IMHO." }-

;D ;D ;D

[mercurie]

-{ Quote: "Running BOClean + a-squared Personal here and it was love at first boot ;D" }-SAME HERE!!

FISHER-PRICE BUSYBOX ??? NOT ON MY 2 MACHINES >:(

[jon_fl]

Are you using a-squared Personal just as a scanner or does that also run in the background with BOCLEAN? How does a-squared Personal compare to EWIDO with BOCLEAN?

[Howard]

-{ Quote: "Are you using a-squared Personal just as a scanner or does that also run in the background with BOCLEAN? How does a-squared Personal compare to EWIDO with BOCLEAN?" }-

I am running a-squared Guard alongside BOClean, i.e., RTM not just as a scanner.

I installed EWIDO/uninstalled/reinstalled in 24 hours and ended up with my 14-day trial expired so I dumped EWIDO permanently - I never saw it running with BOClean and probably never will.

[jon_fl]

-{ Quote: "I am running a-squared Guard alongside BOClean, i.e., RTM not just as a scanner.

I installed EWIDO/uninstalled/reinstalled in 24 hours and ended up with my 14-day trial expired so I dumped EWIDO permanently - I never saw it running with BOClean and probably never will." }-

No conflicts? Don't they overlap coverage?

[Don Pelotas]

-{ Quote: "Are you using a-squared Personal just as a scanner or does that also run in the background with BOCLEAN? How does a-squared Personal compare to EWIDO with BOCLEAN?" }-
Ewido, and BOClean will play nicely together (i have them both) and BOClean are in fact listed in the Ewido-compatibility list (http://www.ewido.net/en/compatibility/) as are A2, but you would have to peruse some really bad places for it to be needed. Probably too much overlap to justify the extra resources you loose.:)

[jon_fl]

Thank you Don. I guess I'll save my money. I use Ewido as an AT scanner and am happy with BOCLEAN.

[Howard]

-{ Quote: "No conflicts? Don't they overlap coverage?" }-

BOClean and a-squared Guard work together without any problem at all here. And it is a-squared Guard's IDS that sees action. I suppose if you are regularly receiving Trojans on your machines then you may see a conflict between the two of them, but I do not so I haven't.

I am not advocating using both, by the way, I just happen to have both running following some problems I had a few weeks back running BOCLean with ProcessGuard which led to me buying a-squared Guard. And since my overall system CPU usage is normally less than 10% and I have 1.5 GB Ram it doesn't have any meaningful resource implications for me to run both.

[Mephisto]

About the no trial version ... why not offer one?
Especially seeing the threads related to product improvements that could impact BoClean's sales. I would think a trial version would do almost as much for the product as the addition of the real-time scanner.

I have wanted to try Bo Clean for over 2 yrs now.
I have since trialed almost every anti-trojan program there is and or was (Anti-Trojan, ANTS, etc..).
My point is BoClean just isn't really in the competition for my anti trojan dollar (for lack of a better phrase) because i can't trial the program and see how it stacks up side by side with the others, or how it runs on my system.

I understand they are super nice people and i never see any complaints from anyone who has purchased the BoClean program (which is why i have maintained an interest this long) but the money back offer (as reliable as im sure it is) is just another online hassle i don't need (IMO) and not nearly as easy as an un-install.

They ever get a trial version together you gotta know i'll be there :)

[Robyn]

I had no hesitation in purchasing BOClean plus I have gone on to purchase further copies when I set up security on friends' computers. OK it would be good if they did have a trial version as I may have hesitated but for the fact I knew osmone who ran it plus the feedback on this forum.

Re: the scanner included version - I am fine on my main computer as I have TDS for scanning but as I have just recently setup my notebook I know I need a scanner and am considering Trojan Hunter? (the one from simplysup) for a scanner only purpose. I would install this and register but held back as I didn't know if this new 'talked' about version of BOClean with scanner is due to be released soon or not.

The only reason I know about the possible scanner version is from this forum but presume from this thread no-one knows if it is ready for release of not ??? I am now thinking I would be best to purchase a scanner only as this could be a long time away ??? This would include scanners for my friends although I may just install the free version of Ewido for their computers.

[bellgamin]

-{ Quote: "I have just recently setup my notebook I know I need a scanner and am considering Trojan Hunter? (the one from simplysup) for a scanner only purpose." }-The one from simplysup is Trojan Remover -- which is an on-demand scanner only. A stringently maintained program with splendid support. 3 to 4 signature updates weekly. It lives up to its name -- that is, it really CAN repair/remove the malware it finds.

As to Mephisto's remarks -- Agree. I buy 90%+ of everything I decide to trial, and 0% of anything I cannot trial.

[AShaR]

BOClean have a great policy wrt installing on up to 5 home pc's and I would have bought into that probably, but I didn't get a response to this question at the time so decided to hold off and went with Ewido. If and when the next upgrade comes out, and it still has the generous user license I will seriously consider it. Although I got a great deal with Ewido I don't want to be paying for yearly licenses.

[Robyn]

Thanks bellgamin - I always get the names of these two programs mixed :-[ up but when I go to the site then I know I have the right one. Looks like this would be a good choice and on par to TDS which I have for my PC.

I have only had to directly seek support from BOclean on one ocassion when one of their updates closed my browser but I have to say the response time was very good for me plus a direct answer to my question and not referring me to any FAQ's etc

My only disappointment in BOClean is that my router firewall will not let it out for an update on the setting I keep it at for security. I have to manually update BOClean when I lower the rotuer firewall for this few mins :( my friend has a different router and BOClean updates on auto - with mine - no. It would be nice if they could offer an alternative update method so I do not have to lower the setting in my router.

BTW I didn't realise it was 5 home computers