Microsoft to disable product activation over Net [Archive]

ronjor

February 24th, 2005, 09:52 PM

mercurie

I think these will be the key statements. It should be interesting.

Starting Feb. 28, Microsoft's product security will require that customers who need to reinstall their operating system call a customer service representative to get a code that will reactivate their Windows XP system.

"When a customer or reseller tries to activate using a Product Key found on the list of 'disabled' keys, the online product activation wizard will instruct them to call Microsoft, where a customer service representative can assist them further."

bigc73542

February 24th, 2005, 09:56 PM

I am running xp pro right now that is legal but has not been registered with microsoft for over a year. I don't really care to register it at all but I probably will register it to be able to keep up with the Windows patches and updates.

bigc

easyas123

February 25th, 2005, 04:08 AM

-{ Quote: "mercurie

I think these will be the key statements. It should be interesting.

Starting Feb. 28, Microsoft's product security will require that customers who need to reinstall their operating system call a customer service representative to get a code that will reactivate their Windows XP system.

"When a customer or reseller tries to activate using a Product Key found on the list of 'disabled' keys, the online product activation wizard will instruct them to call Microsoft, where a customer service representative can assist them further."" }-
That's a contradiction isn't it? A or B? Whatever it is, if you've been considering a nice, clean, fresh install of XP, NOW is the time to do it. Install XP and all service packs up until now, tweak it as you like for security purposes, and then MAKE AN IMAGE!!! Basically, having this image would then serve as a "fresh install". The same as if you started over with the disk, except you are already activated. I believe in having several images, one with all of my most used programs all set up on the computer with a new, clean, freshly installed XP. Everything done offline, total safe hex before getting updates, behind a firewall, the whole bit. That's a comforting thought to know that it is in my safe deposit box. Then, I have the image that I mentioned, basically just a fresh install updated and tweaked with no programs, same for all practical purposes as a fresh install, and lastly, I keep weekly images in case I add programs, make a new tweak, etc. I have three choices to select to go back and install. The weekly's are all done after a complete security sweep of my PC. If you've thought about a clean install from scratch, seriously, to save some possible headaches after 2-28, you might want to do it NOW and then - IMAGE!!

Firecat

February 25th, 2005, 04:14 AM

Sigh...I've got an OEM version of XP Home...But I always call MS anyway so whats the deal.

nadirah

February 25th, 2005, 05:36 AM

My one is OEM preinstalled, even if I reinstall my XP home edition, I don't need to re-activate. The OEM already activated it at the factory. ;D

Firecat

February 25th, 2005, 08:49 AM

-{ Quote: "My one is OEM preinstalled, even if I reinstall my XP home edition, I don't need to re-activate. The OEM already activated it at the factory. ;D" }-
But what if you have to format your hard disk? Then the only way is that maybe your PC manufacturer tied your BIOS version to your PCs activation...Or else your gonna have to reactivate.

HandsOff

February 25th, 2005, 06:51 PM

Maybe I am image challenged, but don't you need to have an opperating system to restore an image to? For instance, your hard drive is completely dead, you run out to the store and grab a newer and better one. you put it in your PC. Now what?

In this scenario (almost) the only way to handle it is

1 - Install xp
2 - Install Backup program
3 - Restore xp with your backup that you have recently made.

There are only a few ways to get around this, but only one that I consider worth the effort of preparing. It requires copying your entire hard drive to a second drive, and just storing that drive with your current backup. Though it may seem excessive, think how much time this would save! Just plug it in, and restore from recent backup!

Is there a better way? I don't know lots of backup software, but my impression was that you had to install Windows first.

- HandsOff

mercurie

February 26th, 2005, 10:46 AM

Hey everyone,
I appreciate the infomation, knowledge is always good even if it is bad news. :(

But I am more troubled by this then any other thread posted to date here at the Wilders. I think this could be a real problem especially for those who use periodic reinstall as a way to clean there sytem up of broken stuff and trash that can not be fixed by other means. Mainly done by the "tinkerers" who share their knowledge with those of us who are not as sharp or tinker less but depend on you.

When ever you have to dial up a number to ask for assistance you are at their mercy. What if this telephone support is poor, long waits... :P . Might start out good and then go down hill too. I do not know I have never used it. Firecat has, perhaps he can share with us. Second what if after a certain amount of reinstalls Miro$oft gets alarmed and says you have reached a certain limit and MS says sorry we think you might be a pirate no more activation for you. Micro$oft should really rethink this it should be easy to use there stuff or users may slllooowly migrate to other OS platforms.

Anyway as this happens I would ask all to post back to this with their experiences. If it does become a problem. This thread could become very useful for research and "can you help me fix this :'( >:( " for users in the future as the 28th is not far away either. Thanks all. Good info Ronjor ;).

dog

February 26th, 2005, 11:10 AM

Hi All, ;)

You can get around having to call or connect to M$ ... on a re-installation if you have already previously activated the product. Add the WPA.DBL file to a slipstreamed XP install disc. The WPA.DBL is the activated file for your PC & Hardware. The benefit of backing this up to CD is that you can "activate" windows without actually needing to connect to or telephone Microsoft. This means you can re-install without having to worry about the limited times you can activate before calling a Microsoft representative.

More info on Slipstreaming SP2 into XP and the WPA.DBL file --> http://www.neowin.net/articles.php?action=more&id=94

HTH, ;)

Steve

orthocross

February 26th, 2005, 11:16 AM

I hear all about pre-installed OEMs, but what about the "FULL OEM" CDs?
My brother built my machine, and installed a "FULL OEM" of XP Pro he bought from a national supplier of computer parts.

This CD was manufactured by Microsoft, not a large multi-national system builder.

I periodically reinstall my OS and applications (about every 6 months).
Will I have to call the Activation Center to activate my OS?

From what I have heard, only COAs provided with pre-installed XP will have to call to activate, but I've seen no one on any forum anywhere who gave a clear answer concerning COAs provided with "FULL OEM" CDs.

I would really appreciate a clear answer from someone who knows about this matter.

ronjor

February 26th, 2005, 11:31 AM

I have a full OEM XP Home cd as well.

Activation faq from June 9, 2004. Not up to date.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;302878

Firecat

February 26th, 2005, 11:36 AM

Well guys, I am back!

@orthocross:

I have purchased a full OEM CD of WinXP (Home) just like your brother, manufactured by MS..I've always had to call the MS Service Center because Internet activation just wouldn't take my CD key.

FULL OEM CDs are STILL OEM CDs. Which means we probably WILL have to call, I wipe my HD and reinstall every 3 months, and every time I have to call MS for activation because Internet activation does not accept the CDkey...

@dog: You beat me to it!

@mercurie:Yes, I call MS everytime because Internet Activation does not accept my CDKey...read this post fully.

Sometimes calls are long, sometimes short. My shortest was 5 minutes and longest was 25 minutes.

Why? Sometimes you just get on with activation - but that automated system (during non-working hours) I often find hard to undestand while it mouths out my confirmation ID...I have to tell it to repeat it wastes time.

Sometimes you get a customer service representative who asks you a few questions like how you purchased your PC, which brand it is...they seem very 'suspicious' of what you do, though they have excellent communication skills and often don't express it in any way. And when they ask me about how I purchased XP, they 'remind' me that Full OEM packs only have paid support from MS...how many times have I heard that?

Most of the time, they dont ask questions on why you had to wipe your hard disk. But sometimes they do.

But the last time I called, the automated phone activation REFUSED my CDKey and I was redirected to a customer service person in another country...He seemed little bit grumpy and angry...I explained to him my CDKey was not working...and he said something I didn't quite understand...and it seemed that he was annoyed and said it louder. And then he said the confirmation key and told me its good for a one-time use only...its mentioned everywhere in the interface and help, why wouldn't I know that? That was only once though.

''The customer representative will ask several questions, such as where the person bought the Windows XP system, to find out whether the certificate is authentic, the representative said.''

These are exactly the questions I'm asked most of the time.

But overall the process is friendly and easy, but irritating.

And in the end, they ask you to answer a few questions and take a survey etc...You can cancel it, but its still wasting your time...

::) ::)

Well I hope that helped.

Regards,
Firecat

Firecat

February 26th, 2005, 11:43 AM

-{ Quote: "I have a full OEM XP Home cd as well.

Activation faq from June 9, 2004. Not up to date.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;302878" }-
Join the club ronjor! Mine also is a full OEM Windows XP Home Edition...

Paranoid2000

February 26th, 2005, 02:55 PM

This is why I've stuck with Windows 2000. No online activation, no possibility of Microsoft pulling the plugin on activations (leaving your installation CD as useful as a drinks coaster) and no possibility of "forced upgrades".

Any software that requires online authentication has to be considered as a short-term rental for this reason.

controler

February 26th, 2005, 03:27 PM

My HP has the Restore CD's plus the OEM XP home CD.

Desktop is home built witha a bought XP Pro CD.

Like you, I love to reformat. What kind of crap are they trying to pull now?
I thought it was OEM System that will need to call in also.
Why the heck would they want to tie up people for activations?
If I can not reformat anytime I want, then I like many others will migrate to another OS like Linux or SUN. This migration wouldn't hurt MS since most normal people don't reformat every few months and they know it.
I guess all my reformat preaching is going down the tubes then huh?

Bruce

Firecat

February 26th, 2005, 04:00 PM

-{ Quote: "My HP has the Restore CD's plus the OEM XP home CD.

Desktop is home built witha a bought XP Pro CD.

Like you, I love to reformat. What kind of crap are they trying to pull now?
I thought it was OEM System that will need to call in also.
Why the heck would they want to tie up people for activations?
If I can not reformat anytime I want, then I like many others will migrate to another OS like Linux or SUN. This migration wouldn't hurt MS since most normal people don't reformat every few months and they know it.
I guess all my reformat preaching is going down the tubes then huh?

Bruce" }-
Not just yours, Bruce. There are many of us. It applies only to OEM versions of XP though.

Antarctica

February 26th, 2005, 04:00 PM

Here is another good explanation to go around the re-activation

http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kbase/WindowsTips/WindowsXP/UserTips/Miscellaneous/BackupRestoreXPActivation.html

Firecat

February 26th, 2005, 04:02 PM

-{ Quote: "Here is another good explanation to go around the re-activation

http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kbase/WindowsTips/WindowsXP/UserTips/Miscellaneous/BackupRestoreXPActivation.html" }-
This should be done in Safe Mode because in normal mode the activation processes might still be running and it will replace those files I think.

controler

February 26th, 2005, 05:25 PM

Sorry but I am trying to make my best chicken & dumplings here.

I don't think we need the BAK file do we?
wpa.bak, wpa.dbl

Firecat

February 26th, 2005, 05:31 PM

No I don't think so.

mercurie

February 26th, 2005, 07:27 PM

Yes. I am aware of these two files. Had no idea for sure why an XP book said make a copy and save in case you do a reinstall. Of course that was several years ago. I knew a lot less. One question and then an observation because I noticed something and recopied these two WPA files on to a new floppy. It appears SP2 may have altered these files. At least I think they did it was modified about the time that update occured. Anyone shed some light on that? Is that the only files we need because when I do a search on these, these files must be referenced in several other files including a log file?

Thanks for the link Antarctica, as I said above I was not real sure on how to use these. Which may have answered my question on the other files that showed up in the search.

ronjor

March 1st, 2005, 06:35 PM

Microsoft: Activation shift won't be a pain
-{ Quote: "The people who will feel the effect of the program are those who loan their certificates to friends or those who are using a stolen certificate, he said." }-
Story (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5595059.html?tag=zdfd.newsfeed)

HandsOff

March 2nd, 2005, 02:29 AM

Hello-

I am guessing that you DO need to copy the .BAK files. It makes sense if their strategy is not to permit activation in the case of major hardware configuration differences. My guess is that some part of windows compares the two to determine if there are differences.

It seems to me that when the exe changes, a new backup is created, therefore I would not be very supprised if they look at the times stamps of the two files even if there is not a perceived hardware discrepancy.

All guesswork, I am afraid. And in no way would I suggest that my thinking could be as isideous as the thinking that goes on at microsoft.

I heard somewhere that the red flag for hardware happens when too much (by their standards, of course) hardware is upgraded at one time. As I recall, changing a hard drive, alone will not be a problem, but change two and your activation will fail. Anyone know the specifics?

This is a sort of new challenge for me, because the one thing that I consider my biggest accomplishment in learning to maintain my computer has been to develope a system in which I can recover from a disaster, and be up and running in a short amount of time. No looking for files, or serial numbers, or system settings. This sort of erodes my confidence to some degree, because it is something that the end user (is led to believe) has no control over. What happens when you call up and explain you bought a computer second hand for which all of the original software was included. Just suppose they say "prove it". Not only is the value of the o/s you paid for in jeopardy, but let's suppose that this transpires at a time or place in which you cannot just run out and grab i new one. Should people now go out and purchase an emergency XP disk for just such an occasion?

I can see it now, the Emergency Edition XP, as it will be called will come conveniently mounted within a small glass frame that can be hung in your home or office. there will be a small mallet dangling from a chain and a plaque reading, In Case of Emergency, Break Glass!

-HandsOff

azumi21

March 2nd, 2005, 03:03 AM

-{ Quote: "This is why I've stuck with Windows 2000. No online activation, no possibility of Microsoft pulling the plugin on activations (leaving your installation CD as useful as a drinks coaster) and no possibility of "forced upgrades".

Any software that requires online authentication has to be considered as a short-term rental for this reason." }-

very true. xp has turned into a real mess. i will not be using it on any more computers i build. win2k is a viable option.

`mishimasan`

March 2nd, 2005, 03:40 AM

-{ Quote: "That's a contradiction isn't it? A or B? Whatever it is, if you've been considering a nice, clean, fresh install of XP, NOW is the time to do it. Install XP and all service packs up until now, tweak it as you like for security purposes, and then MAKE AN IMAGE!!! Basically, having this image would then serve as a "fresh install". The same as if you started over with the disk, except you are already activated. I believe in having several images, one with all of my most used programs all set up on the computer with a new, clean, freshly installed XP. Everything done offline, total safe hex before getting updates, behind a firewall, the whole bit. That's a comforting thought to know that it is in my safe deposit box. Then, I have the image that I mentioned, basically just a fresh install updated and tweaked with no programs, same for all practical purposes as a fresh install, and lastly, I keep weekly images in case I add programs, make a new tweak, etc. I have three choices to select to go back and install. The weekly's are all done after a complete security sweep of my PC. If you've thought about a clean install from scratch, seriously, to save some possible headaches after 2-28, you might want to do it NOW and then - IMAGE!!" }-

That's a good point, but see, for n00bs like me well hehe... cough... well, we wouldn't see that would we?

:lurking:

-{ Quote: "I can see it now, the Emergency Edition XP, as it will be called will come conveniently mounted within a small glass frame that can be hung in your home or office. there will be a small mallet dangling from a chain and a plaque reading, In Case of Emergency, Break Glass!" }-

Oh man, that's a good one. If I ever meet you remind me to buy you a beer.

HandsOff

March 6th, 2005, 12:36 AM

Well, if you laughed then perhaps I should buy you one as well!

- HandsOff

Peter2150

March 6th, 2005, 08:52 AM

Not sure I see the big deal about having to call if you have a legal copy. Of course if you get an OEM version that didn't come with the computer their may be a problem.

I just talked with Microsoft about these issues as they relate to Office. Buying a retail version I am legally allowed to have it both on my desktop and Laptop. But they told me only one will activite over the internet. the other I will have to call. To me this isn't that big a deal.

Pete

HandsOff

March 7th, 2005, 02:26 AM

I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal for me to call and activate my toaster oven, should Microsoft get around to buying the toaster oven maker, force the competition out of the market with unfair business practices and then unilaterally dictate the terms to us toaster oven users.

I hate to think what the demands would be if they bought American Standard and monopolized the toilet industry.

- HandsOff

`mishimasan`

March 7th, 2005, 05:54 PM

The amount of times I format my hard disk is obscene. Then again, I'm a cleanliness freak. If I have to call Microsoft each time I clean the drive it's really not that bad. But let's say that I want to clean my drive at night when I am most available... is that going to be a problem? Are the customer help-lines going to be open? (let's bear in mind I clean my drive at night because it saves time).

Firecat

March 7th, 2005, 05:56 PM

-{ Quote: "The amount of times I format my hard disk is obscene. Then again, I'm a cleanliness freak. If I have to call Microsoft each time I clean the drive it's really not that bad. But let's say that I want to clean my drive at night when I am most available... is that going to be a problem? Are the customer help-lines going to be open? (let's bear in mind I clean my drive at night because it saves time)." }-
I've been in that situation before...In this case, you have to talk to some stupid automated machine...sometimes I dont properly understand what it says.

maddawgz

March 8th, 2005, 06:39 AM

i dont get it..u can install xp offline? i have a xp disc and have loaded it heaps of times then go to run type %systemroot%\system32\oobe\msoobe.exe /a everytime its activated too?? i always do mine offline just something i do? when installing..so im not sure how they can really get you to ring them?? or when i go online duz it auto happen?? Im kinda lost here..xp had driven me nutso ever since loading it.. has turned into one big mess i agree? i might go back to 2000 aswell..the crap ive had with xp since having it..its a real pain in the proverbal? >:(

`mishimasan`

March 8th, 2005, 10:09 AM

I figure it's going to be some kind of multiple serial keygen that they give you every time you want to reinstall it, and they log the amount of times that you install it so that after a while, you have to give explicit reasons etc. and go through some more long waits before you can reactivate it. Anyway, it's going to be cracked probably, so what's the point.

Firecat

March 8th, 2005, 10:20 AM

-{ Quote: "i dont get it..u can install xp offline? i have a xp disc and have loaded it heaps of times then go to run type %systemroot%\system32\oobe\msoobe.exe /a everytime its activated too?? i always do mine offline just something i do? when installing..so im not sure how they can really get you to ring them?? or when i go online duz it auto happen?? Im kinda lost here..xp had driven me nutso ever since loading it.. has turned into one big mess i agree? i might go back to 2000 aswell..the crap ive had with xp since having it..its a real pain in the proverbal? >:(" }-
Well I think you have a pirated corporate version of XP (the devilsown version) which is pre-activated from the start. Are you able to install XP Service Packs?

maddawgz

March 9th, 2005, 05:02 AM

well i installed xp2 service packfine?.. I meant i didnt install it over the net..but someone else set it up 4 me perhaps i worded it wrong? its not pirated as i have the Cd!! And says activated when i checked..I didnt think u had to activate over the net was my question thanks maddawgz ;D

HandsOff

March 10th, 2005, 08:08 PM

Hi Maddawgz

After all my complaining I have to say the same thing. I have never even once in my life called up microsoft to activate my XP. It does ask for my serial number, or key, or whatever you want to call it. I too have more questions than answers...i think it just zaps the number over to microsoft servers and they beam back the A OK.

You want to know what is really messed up? Okay, I bought the XP with my computer almost three years ago. when i opened the cd i get totally paranoid I am going to loose the "password" so i get out my big gold, yellow, green and red paint pens and I cover it with the "code" so that I will be able to use my disk to reinstall. What happens? when I reinstal I use the wrong code, because my computer came with to versions of xp. one was OEM and one not. so i have been using the oem code and activating no problem.

Then what happens? I want to try microsofts antispy program. the website says I have to (well, they talk me into) using their "genuine XP" cerification program. I guess i just wanted to see if i would pass. so it wants me to enter my disks "ID", but suddenly in an urge to want to pass, I enter my other number, five sets of five letters. Understand me, if you click my computers properties and look at the general tab it has the oem number (20 digits + OEM). my gut just told me it would work...and it did.

some part of me is hoping that with my genuine microsoft certification they may conceivably not make me call. Of course has any part of this made any sense?

- HandsOff

P.S. - Microsoft's Antispy program couldn't find its own ass using both hands!

`mishimasan`

March 11th, 2005, 08:27 AM

Lol. Well at least you know that they tried to make it work... cough.

( ^^ in the mostly empty smoke-filled theatre, a couple of people who don't know how they got there clap mildly)

Firecat

March 11th, 2005, 11:51 AM

-{ Quote: "well i installed xp2 service packfine?.. I meant i didnt install it over the net..but someone else set it up 4 me perhaps i worded it wrong? its not pirated as i have the Cd!! And says activated when i checked..I didnt think u had to activate over the net was my question thanks maddawgz ;D" }-
You only have to activate it once after installation, maybe your PC came pre-activated. Installing SP2 will not make you activate again.

Firecat

March 11th, 2005, 11:55 AM

-{ Quote: "Hi Maddawgz

After all my complaining I have to say the same thing. I have never even once in my life called up microsoft to activate my XP. It does ask for my serial number, or key, or whatever you want to call it. I too have more questions than answers...i think it just zaps the number over to microsoft servers and they beam back the A OK.

You want to know what is really messed up? Okay, I bought the XP with my computer almost three years ago. when i opened the cd i get totally paranoid I am going to loose the "password" so i get out my big gold, yellow, green and red paint pens and I cover it with the "code" so that I will be able to use my disk to reinstall. What happens? when I reinstal I use the wrong code, because my computer came with to versions of xp. one was OEM and one not. so i have been using the oem code and activating no problem.

Then what happens? I want to try microsofts antispy program. the website says I have to (well, they talk me into) using their "genuine XP" cerification program. I guess i just wanted to see if i would pass. so it wants me to enter my disks "ID", but suddenly in an urge to want to pass, I enter my other number, five sets of five letters. Understand me, if you click my computers properties and look at the general tab it has the oem number (20 digits + OEM). my gut just told me it would work...and it did.

some part of me is hoping that with my genuine microsoft certification they may conceivably not make me call. Of course has any part of this made any sense?

- HandsOff

P.S. - Microsoft's Antispy program couldn't find its own ass using both hands!" }-
I dont think this is gonna hamper your activation process because MS does not know who you are when you provide your CDKey in the Microsoft Genuine Advantage program.

Heck, I feel you can even use both of your keys on two different PCs. The genuine advantage program only validates CDKeys, and does not activate them.

Ya, calling up Microsoft, they ask for for the keys, lots of questions, and I find it irritating.

Regards,
Firecat