Re: Would You Trust This Company ? i wouldnt

[Checkout]

-{ Quote: "Would you trust a company that activley helped trojan coders, a company who helped in the creation of trojans ?

I dont think the general public would be as keen to purchase your product if they realised that your company was also involved in making trojans.

So what the hell am i talking about ?
Im talking about a person named "hewholaughs"

The following is from a moderator of a trojan forum and was sent to me:
"HeWhoLaughs is from TDS-3. The IP Address is: 202.x.x.x. The host name is: labs.diamondcs.com.au. ---> hewholaughs"

hewholaughs,who works for diamondcs, was also a member of a group that makes trojans, a group called Satans Nest
<deleted URL>
He has been kicked out of that group now that they realise who he is.


And before you say that you wherent involved here is a word for word quote admitting your involvement

"Thread: Avon 2 Beta -> Satan Crew


Post: Be some time before official release, working on s

Be some time before official release, working on some new features and tuning it to be a release without bugs "

<deleted URL>

The above statement refers to a new trojan that satans nest are working on called avon 2 beta.

Im glad to see that TDS are working on some new features and tuning out the bugs in the trojans before they are released, that makes me feel a lot better about there products............" }-
Yeah, sure... *Pigs fueled and ready for take-off. *In cse you weren't aware of it, it's not unusual for virus/trojan writers to get in touch with AV/AT companies before they release their code. *In no way does it mean that DCS are complicit in developing malware. *Your accusations are entirely unjustified - and we don't want another round of mud slinging over here, thank you very much.

Edited:
deleted the URLs to warez/trojan creation/etc sites conform with TOS of this forum.

[Jooske]

Thanks Checkout.
The whole conclusion is very illogical in many ways. Helping coders, knowing to decode the products?
So kers0r you visit trojan forums which throws privacy over the net, identity theft, and seem to excist for security? When goes yours over the web?
You are very well informed by the trojan coders crew, do they trust you with all that sensible information?
And now you think to know anything with those abovementioned arguments ... why trying to kick*** a possible member after leaving? Was it for decoding a beloved product somebody worked on very serious?

Don't worry:
DCS and their employees know very fine what they are doing,
they create the finest tools in security land,
and yes, all these years they made concurrents green with envy, hence the many attack and flame wars (a company not supposed to be any danger would not be worth spoiling energy and mentioning it, would it?)
their new version 4 will make many in security land workless
keep their operators well protected, clean, in good shape,
have taught the world security can be really joyfull
take the operators themselves back in the drivers seats
many etc etc etc's
i am very happy with the many products


And like said, i hope this explains enough, as this is not the place for flame wars and namecalling.
Thank for giving the opportunity to say something nice again about this brilliant company.

[Paul Wilders]

Hi Kers0r,

Long time, no see!

We both know Satans Nest - and the crew. So does DCS (and many, many other anti-trojan software designers). Indeed many of them jump in - I could give you quite some well known names.

It puzzles me why you do put these kind of actions in a dubious perspective; you and I know it is common practice, and the reasons for doing so: being on top of it. As Rezmond (Bionet author) does by involving in (beta-)testing several security apps.

I do hope you did not post in this way because we (wilders.org) refused to afilliate with your site; can't imagine that being the reason.

Puzzling; on your site you do recommend TDS (using a hop.clickbank, generating revenues):

http://secured.orcon.net.nz/d_3.html

regards.

paul

[Ice_Czar]

VERY INTERESTING THREAD *:o

This little snapshot of blackops marketing *;D
and politics

And the answer is YES, I trust them implicitly

[bubs]

Very hard to compose a suitable reply to the original post. ???

Very hard to resist the temptation. :-X

The title is a technical term, not an insult - I would never insult anybody on line. :o

I guess we've just seen that the difference between crackers and script kiddies is not just to be found in inability to write good code. ;D ;D ;D

PS - Bought my TDS-3 this morning

[Jooske]

Hi again bubs, long time no see! Congratulations with your new software, one of the best buys and some kind of life insurance for us/ our systems :) Welcome to the ever warm and nice TDS family! And with that access to the private operators forum.
http://www.diamondcs.com.au/web/img/diamond.gif * * * *http://www.diamondcs.com.au/web/img/dcslogo.gif
www.diamondcs.com.au for whom forgot the URL ;D

[bubs]

Hi Jooske - I too can lurk with the best of them. *;D Surely with your scripting skills you could animate the DCS logo for us??!! :D ;)

You wrote

"And with that access to the private operators forum."

Its great dealing with a company where you can have email exchanges with the likes of Gavin (or Magnus in the case of TH), but DCS' purchase validation procedures are a bit creaky....... When they've released TDS-4 they need to go buy a proper on-line purchasing system.

I had to laugh when I pressed 'send' on the 'easy registration' - both Tiny Trojan Trap and my firewall (Outpost) wanted to know if I approved of this 'unknown new app' sending a message. *Reminded me of the cracked registration code fracas.........

[Jooske]

Don't quite remember how it was a few years ago when i bought it using the console registration form.
In fact i have the logo used in several places, and the diamond included in an MSAgent model, but i'm not all happy with that yet so won't spread that around yet.
You might like to create your free account and upload a nice cropped portrait to be transformed in an MSAgent model for your scripts :) at www.cyberextruder.com so this is where i tried to make the diamond agent and Wayne's Yoda avatar.
In the private forum i posted lots of those fun scripts, and as long as you keep mine all together in a new folder CokeMachine in the Scripts folder you have them all together and will be able to use the same images like the DCS logo each time where requested.
Somewhere in the software in user submitted scripts is my famous InnerPeace script which should have the DCS logo and a sound file as well.
I do some things in them which should not be possible at times, (a-mazing, my specialty is mazes of course) so they are nice as examples for ownh scripts and i'm in a learning process as well of course.
In this forum nor in the SS3 scripting i found possibilities for animated images yet, but of course you can load a series of images and create your slideshow with a timer and make your own dynamic movie, with or without agents to animate it extra and some wave files with music or text :) So you can make your technical presentation in a rather quick way if you don't like to use a powerpoint thing.
there are examples to build your database (which i of course translated into datingbase to make clear what kind of model one can use for that; i'm not aware of anybody creating such a project yet, btw, would love to use such a model as a catalog for nasties or my music files or images in several categories, software, etc)

[TroJanMan]

well here is it all...we traced his ip...i emailed the satanz crew leader...about your buddy hewholaughs...and now he is kicked out of satanz crew...i have the email to prove it...i will try and post this link one more time...and lets see if this time it will stay unless if theese forum members are too scared to let the truth out...

URL removed by Forum Admin

also if you would like to see the email then i will be more than happy to foward it to anybody :)

[TroJanMan]

what a better way to make your program more powerful...instead of searching for trojans all over the world to be detected just make your own!

[Paul Wilders]

Hi Kers0r,

{quote]I dont care if my site is affiliated with your site or not i get enough hits, and this is nothing to do with wilders.org as i think you guys are doing a great job." }-

That's good to hear. Thanks for the compliment.

-{ Quote: "I personally dont trust a company that helps to develop trojans. I dont think this is normal behavour of AV companies at all, if so name the other AV companies that are activly involved in creating trojans." }-

We could argue about the definition from "developping trojans" - but I have a feeling we would not come to an agreement. Fact is - and remains, "working from the inside" is very common. No better way to stay on top and thus keeping security software up to date.

I'm not going to name other security software vendors for the sake of decency; it's not up to us to reveal those names. Either they can reveal them doing so themselves, or contact them and ask.

-{ Quote: "Your removal of the trojan forge URL is an admitance that you dont want people reading the truth themselves becuase trojan forge is not a warez/trojan/etc site there are no trojans for download from that site." }-

Truth has nothing to do with it - isn't even the issue here. We decided the URL comes close enough to what we feel appropriate to remove it.

-{ Quote: "If its such a bad site i wonder why TDS spend so much time there" }-

A question already answered.

-{ Quote: "Yes i do have a tds advert on my site so whats your point ? Its an advert, i get money for it, there is no way in hell i would ever help that company ever again for nothing." }-

Meaning, you getting paid is the standard for recommending security software. I'll leave it up to the readers to form their opinion on that.

Let me state, one of the reasons we (wilders.org) are purely non profit at least provides a non commercial view. Our recommendations and ratings are our own. Therefore, we would never recommend software just for the money: we would sell our visitors short - but that's merely our point of view.

regards.

paul *




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*

*

[Checkout's Ghost]

-{ Quote: "and lets see if this time it will stay unless if theese forum members are too scared to let the truth out... " }-
Once again, lies and innuendo masquerade as truth, and the vultures circle overhead. *Welcome back...sort of...Vampirefo's ghost.

[Unlight]

yep , unfortunately its True , he who Laughs *who was Traced Back to DCS WAS *PROVED To Work in an ACTIVE Trojan Project by satanz Crew ,Details are logged & Everyone knows that among the forums whom he Used to Frequent , I see its a SHAME That DCS Should Use Such Crooked & childish Methods , I used to be a TDS fan , Not any more , I guess we should know by know What are the STATE Of the ART TECHNIQUES To Detect Both KNOWN & UNKNOWN Trojans , heh

[Jooske]

I am very happy with the products, they suit me and made security such a joy on internet.

Funny, in the other posting was said "if you want to be on top create your won trojans", and now --if this is true-- people are complaining for the possibility this would have been done by a developer? What do you want, eat your own recommendations or only perscribe them to others --in case they would be doing so-- to be able to complain?

Devoted DCS / TDS operator
Beta tester
Wilders Forum DCS moderator
DCS Fan
SS3 scripter

[Paul Wilders]

-{ Quote: "yep , unfortunately its True , he who Laughs *who was Traced Back to DCS WAS *PROVED To Work in an ACTIVE Trojan Project by satanz Crew ,Details are logged & Everyone knows that among the forums whom he Used to Frequent" }-

Nice having you all visiting us, guys *;). As far as I'm concerned, there's no need to prove anything. As stated before: "working from the inside" is quite common - and you all know it. As most insiders do know.

-{ Quote: "I see its a SHAME That DCS Should Use Such Crooked & childish Methods" }-

Well. we all know better than that, don't we? Nice try nevertheless.

-{ Quote: "I used to be a TDS fan , Not any more" }-

That would be a pitty. It's a very nice app, as you are well aware of.

-{ Quote: "I guess we should know by know What are the STATE Of the ART TECHNIQUES To Detect Both KNOWN & UNKNOWN Trojans , heh
" }-

Nice try! *;)

regards.

paul

[Jooske]

And with TDS even detected voice controlled. Nice try, too.
Yes i do trust them. These guys know what they're talking about.
Heya Paul, see the guys like your / our forum here. Time for the cool beers or hot coffee? I know, the TDS environments are always nice and user friendly.
What could be wrong with the other forums, dusting them out or such for lost code(r)s?

[Checkout's Ghost]

-{ Quote: "its a SHAME That DCS Should Use Such Crooked & childish Methods" }-
Pardon me? *SCUM who write trojans are calling other people "childish and crooked"?

Have you ever considered GETTING A LIFE?

[Paul Wilders]

-{ Quote: "If you dont make any money out of hosting this forum for tds then i tell you now Paul, they have screwed you over. You are giving them freem publicity worth thousands of dollars and what are they giving you ? maybe a free copy of tds." }-

Worse: we host downloads *;). Not only for DCS/TDS, but many others as well. You don't want to know the bandwidth coming with it and costs. Just a matter of principle; no more, no less.

-{ Quote: "You want to know how much money i have ever made from that tds advert, probably less then 200 dollars in 3 yrs i wouldnt exactly say im raking in the money. My site is also non profit but i can afford to support it financially out of my own pockets any more and so i have adverts etc." }-

I'm not interested in how much money you've made; I'm puzzled how you can recommend TDS on one hand, and have no trust whatever in the software on the other hand. In my book, it's of those; the two of them won't go together - if only for the sake of your visitors.

-{ Quote: "I have no idea why you are trying to find ways to make me look stupid Paul, when this is nothing to do with you or wilders.org, as i said prevoiusly your site is great." }-

I'm not trying to make you look stupid at all. I'm just very puzzled a) [i]why you posted as you did in the first place b) how you can combine a recommendation on your site and a condemnation at the same time. Just curious.

-{ Quote: "All i have told here is the truth" }-

It's your interpretation of the truth; see my comments earlier on.

-{ Quote: "and it seems that you feel that attacking my site and my character will some how water down the truth. I guess it could." }-

As stated above: just puzzled and curious. I for one can't combine some facts.

-{ Quote: "Im not going to post any more on this thread becuase it will end up a flame war and that is not what i am about. " }-

Well, no one is looking for a flame war. I'm glad you aren't neither, and thanks for that.

regards.

paul

[Jooske]

But Checkout, we all know, there is no LIFE without TDS.
No Cuckericooooo to wake me up and start the coffee machine and all those other remote activities, voice controlled sending and collecting emails, and jumping to the forums to have the latest postings read aloud while i take my morning shower and my fresh croissants aer in the oven and egg is getting boiled?
Playing my favorite music or news sender in the meantime? O yes, and scanning for possible nasties, as after all it is a security tool in fact. But really, what life would there be without TDS?

[Unlight]

man , I dont Know you & I Dont care to , wont Even Bother quoting your Words, I am Very happy in Fact that u Called People who Code Trojans SCUM , Trojan Coders Do it for Fun or to Practise their programming skills , *I d like to hear what u have to say about Others Who Code Trojans FOR MONEY & People Sheepishly Pay Them , Duh
P.s:am here in case u have anything to say * ;D

[TroJanMan]

i bet a bunch of security sites would have a field day if they found out av's develop trojans...

[Paul Wilders]

Unlight,

-{ Quote: "man , I dont Know you & I Dont care to , wont Even Bother quoting your Words, I am Very happy in Fact that u Called People who Code Trojans SCUM , Trojan Coders Do it for Fun or to Practise their programming skills , *I d like to hear what u have to say about Others Who Code Trojans FOR MONEY & People Sheepishly Pay Them , Duh *
P.s:am here in case u have anything to say" }-

Well, allow me to react *;). *It's beside the point - and as Kers0r stated: no one is looking for a flame war here.

TrojanMan,

-{ Quote: "i bet a bunch of security sites would have a field day if they found out av's develop trojans..." }-

Nice try *;). I enjoy your company, but should we take this any further? Leading nowhere as it seems..

regards.

paul * *

[Paul Wilders]

For the record: as it seems, posts from Kers0r have been deleted - not by any of our team members, but by Kers0r himself. That's his perogative; I will not question that. We have not been censoring here.

regards.

paul

[Jooske]

I would like better proof of your statement.


Edited the title.

[Paul Wilders]

Kers0r,

-{ Quote: "I deleted it becuase its a bit pointless trying to show the truth to people that cannot be bothered looking into the facts but would rather flame others." }-

As stated before: it's merely an interpretation from the truth. You have not been flamed, other than perhaps by checkout. Sometimes emotions take over.

-{ Quote: "No one accused you of deleting any posts and still you have to jump on the case and try and make me look stupid." }-

I didn't have any intention to make you look stupid; why should I? As you are aware of, mods and admins can delete posts. I wanted to make sure, we did not censor here in any way. That's all there's to it.

-{ Quote: "You removed the urls from my postings yet your admins are allowed to put urls up to my site (which you stated that you would not link to) so my site must be against your terms of service yet you still allowed the links." }-

We removed links we felt inapropriate. We do not consider your site as such; it's as simple as that.

-{ Quote: "jooske and others are just sleepers for TDS, you sure arent going to get an intelligent discussion when people have failed to even try and look at the facts that *i published." }-

Jooske is a DCS mod over here, and a dedicated one. She stands up for what she believes in. As for facts: a matter of interpretation as stated before.

-{ Quote: "I have no problem with trojan coders sending trojans to av companies. I do get disturbed to find out that an anti-trojan company is working as a team member for a trojan coding crew and helping with the release of their trojans." }-

This is turning into an endless loop. I'm happy to state once more: working from "the inside" is fairly common. See my former statements about this.

-{ Quote: "I have known about hewholuaghs for a very long time and i never have said anything before but when i realised that he was a mamber of satanz crew and was activly involved in releasing trojans thats when i felt something needed to be said" }-

So you did spoke up. And you obviously are shocked and disagree with "working from the inside" - that's the way I phrase all this. Again: sorry to say, but it happens - all the time.

Having said all this, I'm still puzzled about you recommending TDS on one hand, and condemning it on the other. We could talk this over using PM if you prefer that. I'm sincerely interested.

regards.

paul *

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*

*

[Checkout's Ghost]

Well, my interest level in this comversation has fallen below my interest level in washing-up liquid, which is probably just as well since there's a whole kitchen here to clean.

;D)

[Checkout's Ghost]

-{ Quote: "this is what checkout was refering to. he did not even read what i posted and it shows his general lack of intelligence by quoting something and then talking about something else.I would advise checkout to checkout the facts before posting.......... " }-
Don't trade wits with me, sunshine - you're only half-equipped for that.

[Paul Wilders]

Hi Checkout,

Please let's not put out the fire with gasoline *;)

Thanks in advance.

regards.

paul

[kers0r]

8

[Checkout's Ghost]

Paul, nobody impugnes my intelligence. *That is libel and I might remind you that you have the libeller's IP address recorded. *To say I'm p!ssed is putting it far beyond mildly.

However, for the sake of forum decorum, I'm prepared to considered the matter closed, providing others have equal regard for propiety.

[Checkout's Ghost]

-{ Quote: "shouldnt you be cleaning your kitchen cleaner boy ?" }-
Substandard. *Try harder. *:

[Jooske]

Ohhhh i took this differently!
As we saw the whole equipe visiting here today/night in our nice, clean, friendly, forum, i thought the people saw the difference and took the opportunity to use their soap and water to clean out their own place. We can spare you some brooms and scotch brite and whatever to get it gleaming brilliant out there too? Brilliant, yes of course, as we were talking about Diamond the whole day, weren't we?
Weak habit, if people have nothing intelligent to say they start name calling, seems they feel better by that. Just looking in the mirror suppose.

[snowman]

* * Well Well Well boys and girls....very interesting


an now....for the other story


* * * *this is an entirely personal observation about what has been publically revealed for the world to see

* * * *Satans Nest was infiltrated...(appearantly it wasn't hard to do) *by an infiltrator that didn't even bother to hide his ip..(satans nest is so easy to infiltrated no one even bothers to hide their ip ?) *does this mean that any local authorty can slip right in an do alittle busting.
* * * Fellows where your security measures?

Next someone inside satans nest traces another person inside satans nest...huh! * why would one member trace another member? *I thought there was such a thing as honor among the brotherhood.

next......snitching...fellows let me tell you like it is..a snitch that rats out anyone..will rat you out to. *If there was a problem respect should have been shown to everyone in satans nest...an the problem left to its members to handle......now the hold world knows....an all because of a snitch....see,,the snitch has already brought satans nest into public view.....now who will the snitch rat out next?

next. * working on something is greatly differant than making something work....an the beauty of all this..if\when it does work it will be nearly useless....sounds like good planning ....

next.. I see a person admitting to being payed...an then complains about someone else...duh!!

* * Some of the most brillant software makers in the world were former hackers\trojan coders....thats a fact of life. * its also a fact that there was a time with a pro hacker was really somebody....a person who had a strong sense of honor....a person who didn't wack some petty lil win98......or drop a trojan on some helpless kid on messenger......an sure as hell would never snitch on anyone.......he took care of his own problems...an didn't show weakness by making it public.
* * *as stated this is my personal observation....an if I see it this way....how many others have? *
* * *ip addresses can be changed almost instantly....an a trojan using someone computer will show the victims ip........an ip address and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee......about it!
* * * *satans nest should be most grateful in more ways than one.....a tremendous security problem has been shown that could prove extremely damaging to all.
* * * this has been said as respecful as possible...it will be my only comment....other than to say...Checkout...Jooske....are people that would be welcome in my home.........

* * * * * * * * * *Snowman
* * *

[Wayne - DiamondCS]

"kersOr"'s real name is Jonathan David Read, a young and over-enthusiastic trojan researcher who works for www.virusmd.com - see http://www.virusmd.com/aboutus/team.php
So it is not surprising that he is attacking us - we're competition, but it is nonetheless an apalling attack.

The real question is - Would you trust Jonathon Read aka. "kersOr"? NO YOU SHOULDN'T, and here is why.

I have an interesting archive of emails from Dr. Cyrus Peikari (CEO - VirusMD) regarding Jonathon Read and I'll be sure to email him again today. Last year it came to my attention that it was claimed on the VirusMD.com About page that Jonathon Read was instrumental in the development of TDS-3. While Mr. Read did indeed send us trojans (as many people do) which we are grateful for, that was the only contribution he ever made to DiamondCS. *Mr. Peikari investigated the matter and came to the same conclusion, so he promptly removed the word TDS-3 from their page. While I have not heard from either of them since, I suspect that Jonathon Read was humiliated that his CEO had found out that he had lied about his work history to get a job at VirusMD, so I'm assuming that is why he is attacking us.

Quite sad, really.
*
For the record, Gavin is responsible for infiltrating a startling number of trojan teams but he is not active in any way in the development of any trojans - he hardly ever programs as that has very little to do with his career, all his work revolves around the disassembly and analysis of compiled programs, which in a way is almost the opposite of building programs. His sole aim when infiltrating trojan teams is to obtain private trojan source code and servers that are otherwise virtually impossible to obtain. It is thanks to Gavins handywork that we've been able to obtain over 200 private trojan servers that aren't detected by any other anti-virus or anti-trojan scanners simply because they were never made public, but some of these servers are from high-profile strains - Sub7 to name just one. This is called proactively obtaining trojans - we try to get trojans and add detection for them _before_ they become a threat as they all inevitably do. We can also confirm that several major anti-virus companies also use this approach to proactively obtain such private trojans. I'm not sure why kersor would say that somebody here actually works for any trojan crew, but in regards to *Satans Crew a quick check at http://satanzcrew.no.sapo.pt/crew.html doesn't even show the person they claim works for them?

Anyway, now you know who kersor is and who he works for, I'll let you make up your own minds as to how trustworthy his word is.

Best regards,
Wayne

[zappa]

Now I know I purchased the right product. *Kudo's DCS. *
In fact I'd pay more for TDS. * I trust them then and now. *

[grey_ghost]

kersOr or Mr. Reid must truly be a very enthusiastic and talented Trojan researcher.

Most businesses wont hire a 6 year old. *;)

[kers0r]

-{ Quote: ""kersOr"'s real name is Jonathan David Read, a young and over-enthusiastic trojan researcher who works for www.virusmd.com - see http://www.virusmd.com/aboutus/team.php
So it is not surprising that he is attacking us - we're competition, but it is nonetheless an apalling attack.

The real question is - Would you trust Jonathon Read aka. "kersOr"? NO YOU SHOULDN'T, and here is why.

I have an interesting archive of emails from Dr. Cyrus Peikari (CEO - VirusMD) regarding Jonathon Read and I'll be sure to email him again today. Last year it came to my attention that it was claimed on the VirusMD.com About page that Jonathon Read was instrumental in the development of TDS-3. While Mr. Read did indeed send us trojans (as many people do) which we are grateful for, that was the only contribution he ever made to DiamondCS. *Mr. Peikari investigated the matter and came to the same conclusion, so he promptly removed the word TDS-3 from their page. While I have not heard from either of them since, I suspect that Jonathon Read was humiliated that his CEO had found out that he had lied about his work history to get a job at VirusMD, so I'm assuming that is why he is attacking us.

Quite sad, really.
*
For the record, Gavin is responsible for infiltrating a startling number of trojan teams but he is not active in any way in the development of any trojans - he hardly ever programs as that has very little to do with his career, all his work revolves around the disassembly and analysis of compiled programs, which in a way is almost the opposite of building programs. His sole aim when infiltrating trojan teams is to obtain private trojan source code and servers that are otherwise virtually impossible to obtain. It is thanks to Gavins handywork that we've been able to obtain over 200 private trojan servers that aren't detected by any other anti-virus or anti-trojan scanners simply because they were never made public, but some of these servers are from high-profile strains - Sub7 to name just one. This is called proactively obtaining trojans - we try to get trojans and add detection for them _before_ they become a threat as they all inevitably do. We can also confirm that several major anti-virus companies also use this approach to proactively obtain such private trojans. I'm not sure why kersor would say that somebody here actually works for any trojan crew, but in regards to *Satans Crew a quick check at http://satanzcrew.no.sapo.pt/crew.html doesn't even show the person they claim works for them?

Anyway, now you know who kersor is and who he works for, I'll let you make up your own minds as to how trustworthy his word is.

Best regards,
Wayne
" }-



Can i ask you Wayne, when have i ever lied about my work history ?

I would be very interested in seeing evidence that shows that i have lied about anything.

You are blatently lying about me right now, saying that i lied to cyrus peikari.

I dont need to lie about myself to get a job, i have never lied to any employer and i am a very honest person.

Its not a secret where i work, everyone knows that, i dont decieve people to get trojans and i dont work with trojan coders on trojan projects.

Yes he who laughs name has been removed , it was removed yesterday, pretty conveniant for yourself i might add. And feel free to contact my boss, i couldnt care less, you think that really worries me ? If you do then you dont really know much about me or the company i work for.

Unless you have proof that shows i lied to my CEO then i expect a retraction and an apology.

[kers0r]

i also have a large archive of emails here too that cleary state that you used information i wrote for your trojan definitions for TDS 2.

The only sad person here is you and your sad company.

[UNICRON]

k, enough.

[Wayne - DiamondCS]

You'd like an apology? How about an apology from you then for making such an allegation about DiamondCS which is what started all of this in the first place. you started this for absolutely no apparent reason - it was a completely unprovoked outburst and it doesn't do any good for the credibility of either yourself or VirusMD. If you're foolish enough to start such lie-strewn threads then you should expect that people will slam you, they're not fools.

You apparently have nothing better to do with your time, "kersor", but this thread is accomplishing nothing and some of us have work to do so this thread will now be locked.