Which Graphics Card Do You Use?

[Firecat]

This is an insignificant issue, but I want to hold a poll on which graphics card you use at this will greatly influence a developer's incentive to support a particular graphics card if it is widely used. I invite all guests and members to take this poll please.

Also, try to post a few comments if possible.

[Firecat]

If you choose the 'other' option please try to tell us which gfx card your using.

[INTOXSICKATED]

radeon 9200 'cuz that's what came with my sony.

[Jimbob1989]

Radeon 9200 here as well.

Jimbob

[Firecat]

SORRY GUYS I MADE A MISTAKE - THE GEFORCE FX 5700/5600/5500/5200 REFERS TO THE WHOLE GEFORCE FX LINE, SO IF YOURE USING A 5800 OR 5900, PLEASE CLICK ON THE OPTION FOR GEFORCE FX 5700 AND BELOW.

[Firecat]

ALSO APPLIES TO 5950 USERS!

[Infinity]

I got myself recently a 6600gt pci express and I am very happy with it. in the beginning I thought wow 200$ is a lot of money but now when I see dvd's or play games or even photo's are so nice, smooth I am glad I purchased it.

[Firecat]

I aint sad about my 5900...but I become dull when I see your 6600gt....

[Infinity]

-{ Quote: "I aint sad about my 5900...but I become dull when I see your 6600gt...." }-

you shouldn't be sad Firecat really, cause I had for two years a gforce 5200FX ;D that was a bummer but to be honest I still could play all the games out there but not on all resolutions and certainly not with antialiasing and stuff.

take your time, save a bit and you'll get yourself a better one cause in a few months prices will drop again and you can get yourself a 6600gt for 140$ or at the moment a ati 9800xt for 120$

don't worry I bet you can play all the games I can.

bye

Inf.

[Sputnik]

Gigabyte ATi Radeon 9800 Pro :D
Bought it last month and so happy with it... :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Bowserman]

Albatron 6600GT PCI-E. Very happy with it....nice scores in 3DMark05 also :).

Regards,
Jade.

[Infinity]

nice card for overclocking I heard Jade!! ;)

[Bowserman]

Very true :). Overclocked from 500 to 576MHz Core and 1000 to 1220MHz Memory on stock cooling here ;D.

Regards,
Jade.

[Infinity]

Do me a favour and post your 3dmarks 03. I am curious how you go with the 2003 cause I don't have the 05 yet...I'll download it this evening and I'll tell you how I do!!

Thanx in advance

[Bowserman]

Here you go :).....also, my Aquamark03 score is 57080. But better keep on topic mate.

Regards,
Jade.

[Infinity]

extraordinairy my friend!!! one of the best scores i've seen on a 6600gt stockcooled. I knew albatros was famous for their cards and you have proven it again:D

Thanx

p.s. (8500 at mine...:D)

sorry for the off topic

[Firecat]

Is 5500 a good score in 3DMark03 for an FX 5900? ???

Got an Asus V9950 FX 5900 here....

[Infinity]

yes imho, it means you can play all the games in the world without any probs even antialiasing should be ok.

you can tweak it further with the nvtweak.reg file and with the one from Jason I think.

[Firecat]

Can you explain a bit about this nvtweak.reg file?

[Infinity]

it is a registry file, just a plain txt file but with the extension : .reg

when you click it, it sets some entries in your registry. so when you browse through your drivers settings, you are able to overclock it, or auto overclock it, you can read the temps I believe, and you get the opportunity to do some other stuff like double monitor usage and so on...

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=911

[Firecat]

I think you can also do this using RIVA Tuner or Coolbits....I have coolbits with so I guess I have those tweaks.

BTW, does nvtweak.reg still work for the ForceWare 7x.xx drivers?

[Infinity]

Coolbits is the same as nvtweak. the results are the same...only the name changes.

I do believe it is possible still, cause I am doing it at the moment through nvtweak to overclock my videocard.

[^Ale]

ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 here

[Infinity]

overclocked at 315/515 without the tool from Jason

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "Albatron 6600GT PCI-E. Very happy with it....nice scores in 3DMark05 also :).

Regards,
Jade." }-

Greetings Jade :) ...is this the card you are using....
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?Submit=BROWSE&manufactory=1665&DEPA=0&InnerCata=48

[Bowserman]

I have this (http://www.albatron.com.tw/english/it/vga/specification.asp?pro_id=121) one :).

Regards,
Jade.

[Randy_Bell]

"Radeon 9250" according to Windows XP Device Manager {display}. ;D :o :D

[Firecat]

Radeon 9250 is a modified 9200. So vote for 9200 if you have 9250 :)

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "I have this (http://www.albatron.com.tw/english/it/vga/specification.asp?pro_id=121) one :).

Regards,
Jade." }-

OK.....what is the difference between..
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-170-070&depa=0

and
http://www.albatron.com.tw/english/it/vga/specification.asp?pro_id=121#

would one be better then the other :-\

[Infinity]

If you are planning on buying a pci express card and you want the best bang for the buck: I would like to point out to the x800xl that costs 100$ more but will perform like an 6800gt wish is easy 400$ :)

[bigc73542]

this is what I am useing now. it works very well

Intel(R) 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphics Controller

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "If you are planning on buying a pci express card and you want the best bang for the buck: I would like to point out to the x800xl that costs 100$ more but will perform like an 6800gt wish is easy 400$ :)" }-
I'll keep it in mind, but that is really more then i wanted to spend.....
BTW i do no online gaming......i'm thinking that might enable me to use a somewhat less expensive card.........don't know

[Bowserman]

-{ Quote: "OK.....what is the difference between..
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-170-070&depa=0

and
http://www.albatron.com.tw/english/it/vga/specification.asp?pro_id=121#

would one be better then the other :-\" }-

Hi Rainwalker :).

The difference is that the one in my link is SLI capable, has a 500MHz GPU Core, 1000MHz Memory and has the the nice copper RAMSINKS to help with the heat dissipation of the DDR 3 memory...makes a difference when overclocking.

For some information on what SLI is, have a read here (http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=1178).


Regards,
Jade.

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "Hi Rainwalker :).

The difference is that the one in my link is SLI capable, has a 500MHz GPU Core, 1000MHz Memory and has the the nice copper RAMSINKS to help with the heat dissipation of the DDR 3 memory...makes a difference when overclocking.

For some information on what SLI is, have a read here (http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=1178).


Regards,
Jade." }-


Thanks Jade......very helpful :)

[MikeBCda]

I'm not into top-end graphics-intensive stuff, like new games or such (between advancing years and head injury some years ago, my reaction time ain't what she usedta be). So my onboard Intel controller (845 series) works just fine for me.

[nadirah]

I'm using Intel Extreme Graphics here. Cheaper than using a graphics card from ATI, Nvidia or some other vendor.

[Firecat]

Cheaper, but also slower - anyhow, OK if you do not play games ;)

[Rainwalker]

Greetings all...............well, i just started using an Intel Graphics Media Accelerator driver that came w/ a new board.............while i wait.........and i have got to you it is the worst onboard graphics program i have ever seen :(
.........i can only run @ 1152x864 when i have always run @ 1280x1024....
anything more then 1152x864 is not only distorted, the font is barely legible.......................

[Firecat]

I used to have an Intel i810 onboard graphics some 4 years ago, and I couldnt run anything beyond 1024x768 or else text became blurry and distorted.

[WSFuser]

i have a geforce 6600gt with room for another. great video card for the money btw.

[Gullible Jones]

Onboard S3 Prosavage 8, because I have no choice.

[funkymonkeyboy]

I have an ATI X800XT AGP and it is a nice card.

[Firecat]

X800? You must be a heavy gamer with deep pockets then ;D

[davef]

Asus EN6600/TD/256M GeForce 6600 256MB DVI TV Out PCI-E

Does everything I need, I mainly play Command and Conquer Generals/Zero Hour and copes with that very well.

My Partner does a lot of Digital Photography and using Photoshop CS, I've had no complaints from her.

[funkymonkeyboy]

-{ Quote: "X800? You must be a heavy gamer with deep pockets then ;D" }-
I got it for Halflife2 and I must say it is amazing the difference. Also I play Americas Army and it is also great.

[controler]

Me wondering if it is such a good idea to show and tell ones video card?

Do you remember the story of the newest rootkits trying to hide in Video memory?
\
Nope I ain't tellin ;D

Bruce

[Infinity]

I don't see anything bad against showing which type of vga card you have...it's like telling your security setup, you need to have pissed off someone skilleable enough, who has the proper tools to get you hit...tools built in tds-3 aren't doing anything special ;)

btw I have now my x800xl and very satisfied about it, it ain't the xt platinum but after some time I heard some great stories bout overclocking/modding it to a xt lol , so whenever I got some sparetime, I'll post some 3dmark03 here,

have a great day

Inf.

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "I don't see anything bad against showing which type of vga card you have...it's like telling your security setup, you need to have pissed off someone skilleable enough, who has the proper tools to get you hit...tools built in tds-3 aren't doing anything special ;)

btw I have now my x800xl and very satisfied about it, it ain't the xt platinum but after some time I heard some great stories bout overclocking/modding it to a xt lol , so whenever I got some sparetime, I'll post some 3dmark03 here,

have a great day

Inf." }-
Maybe you should have waited for R520 to arrive - you'd have got it at an even cheaper price. I'll buy my 6800/GT by June-July.....

[Infinity]

-{ Quote: "The first boards will be VERY expensive people are talking $600-$700 range. It all depends on how the graphics memory prices develop in the next months and if TSMC can get good yields out of the 90nm process." }-

1 card will be at 600$ (here in Belgium this will probably over 700$) and if you want it in sort of sli mode then it will cost you 1400$ ;)

true, the prices will drop when those cards come out at the end of the year BUT when it will be afordable I'll switch again...I allways do that :) sell my own and the remaining bucks to pay always makes it attemptive 8) to do...

so the next thing I'll do is to buy myself an amd64 +3500/+3800 and from there I'll see further...maybe the new graphic card you mention (which will have btw 24!!!! pipelines and 512mb!! ddr3 ram (the most demanding games at the moment don't need 256mb so we'll see)

Inf.

[Firecat]

I will stick to NV4x/NV5x :P:)

What I meant to say was that the R4xx cards would become dirt cheap after the relase of R5xx :)

[Sweetie(*)(*)]

Hi, i got this score running standard settings and while surfing downloading.

System;

P4 3.0ghz
1024mb ddr550
ATI X800 pro
120gb/8mb sata

[Infinity]

It's a nice score :) kinda like 6600gt, little faster...

I know what you meant FireCat, and I am aware of the situation...but like it's always been the case: it will take me another year for upgrading my card...so I had to purchase one now...

I am 1000% convinced that whatever graphic card you have: if you use it with an amd64 you'll always get better graphics then if you have intel (like me) eventhough it is the 550...I will never make the same mistake to be honest...maybe I will I don't know...

I have seen some tests at anandtech between the intel 64bit and amd64bit...guess what: ... amd crushes intel again :o

have fun

[Firecat]

I'll let Infinity comment on that - I'm a GeForce guy :D

I like your setup Sweetie - but are you a gamer?

If you got that score while surfing/downloading its definitely good - at least I think its good :D

You have a great PC. I'm jealous of your graphics card :'(

[Infinity]

11600 3dmarks03 with the new one...but didn't overclocked my cpu and didn't overclocked the graphic card yet...

maybe this eve but I am experiencing issues with the voltages...need to work it out first or I'll end up with an microwave oven again :D

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "It's a nice score :) kinda like 6600gt, little faster...

I know what you meant FireCat, and I am aware of the situation...but like it's always been the case: it will take me another year for upgrading my card...so I had to purchase one now...

I am 1000% convinced that whatever graphic card you have: if you use it with an amd64 you'll always get better graphics then if you have intel (like me) eventhough it is the 550...I will never make the same mistake to be honest...maybe I will I don't know...

I have seen some tests at anandtech between the intel 64bit and amd64bit...guess what: ... amd crushes intel again :o

have fun" }-
Of course - my 5900 functions way better on my AMD64 than it did on my old P4. Doom 3 had better textures, 3DMark scores are acceptable and I can generall run most of my games very smoothly.

Intel's 64-bit is just the old 32-bit Extreme Edition with the new Enhanced Memory 64 Technology (EM64T)

AMD is miles ahead of Intel this time - and it better stay that way :D

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "11600 3dmarks03 with the new one...but didn't overclocked my cpu and didn't overclocked the graphic card yet...

maybe this eve but I am experiencing issues with the voltages...need to work it out first or I'll end up with an microwave oven again :D" }-
Yours is an X800XL, Inf. - Sweeties seems like the regular plain vanilla X800 :)

[Infinity]

yes, you remember correctly...
sidenote: If Sweetie has a vivo connector on her X800pro then she could easily use the ATITOOL to unlock the pipes and shaders so she has the XT and then she'll blow me away in now time :) cause x800xl pro and x800pro are unlockeable (mine just by adding mem and core and x800pro just by using the tools available like voltmodding and atitool)...two excellent cards imho.

and better performers for the money then nvidea's (sorry Firecat) imho...that is why I changed to ATI

[Firecat]

Umm...I think Sweeties is X800 vanilla - not Pro or Ultra or XT or anything :D

Since I am very interested in Graphics technology, I choose nVIDIA because thiers is better from a technology standpoint. Y'see, I'm more likely to become a developer rather than an end user, and NVIDIA offers the best platform for OpenGL gaming and developer platforms.

NVIDIA = Developer Flexibility/OpenGL exploitation
ATI = End user flexibilty

I am very interested in proper exploitation of graphics cards due to which I may end up as developer.

NVIDIA does indeed make things difficult for developers with Shader Model 2.0a for NV3x and SM 3.0 for NV4x and the different levels of precision - FP16 and FP32.

The end user is probably better off with ATI :)

[Infinity]

I understand your point clearly, and I do deeply respect that.

As long as we can play games and watch movies with good quality, we'll be happy

p.s. we talk about the 6800 (nvidea) vanilla, never about ATI vanilla...but I understand what you're saying...but nevertheless x800 (without pro or xl) would never ever achieve such a score without overclocking ;) this is a pro version and a good one cause if it is standard settings, it's faster then let's say msi x800pro's.

[Infinity]

I think I should edit my post...cause normally the x800pro could get a better score then the one sweetie is having, but like she said: she was surfing and stuff...and if she didn't changed the internal 3dmark settings here points are accomplished with 4X antialiasing so it's a VERY good score anyway :D

take care

[Firecat]

OK Then - its an ATI Radeon X800 Pro.

GeForce 6 Series graphics cards have had a lot of problems with video - especially the 6600 series - mainly related to PureVideo.

ATI is generally better at video quality. NVIDIA puts in huge transistor counts for technology which they havent yet perfected, I dont know what NVIDIA is up to.

Basically, NVIDIA wants to push the world away from standard compilers like Microsoft HLSL and GLSL, and wants to pull developers towards their Cg so that NVIDIA GPUs can perform the best.

Sorta like how 3Dfx pushed Glide.

Now, enter S3. Its back with DeltaChrome. It performs better than comparable NV3x graphic cards, and is a real 8-pipe architecture. It supports FP16 and FP24 to maintain a good performance, unlike NVIDIA who used FP16 and FP32.

The real problem with DeltaChrome - bad drivers and low clock speeds.

[Infinity]

sounds like the parphelia cards...nice concept except for the high price and low speeds :(

the thing nvidea is working on (I read it on tom's hardware) is to build a card with 512mb too...in sli format this will be 1024mb...I cannot believe this is going to happen cause there are no games what so ever that needs this...
Nvidea has pro's no doubt about that...it is just that they don't have anything between the 6800 and the 6600...let's say the middle class...

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "sounds like the parphelia cards...nice concept except for the high price and low speeds :(

the thing nvidea is working on (I read it on tom's hardware) is to build a card with 512mb too...in sli format this will be 1024mb...I cannot believe this is going to happen cause there are no games what so ever that needs this...
Nvidea has pro's no doubt about that...it is just that they don't have anything between the 6800 and the 6600...let's say the middle class..." }-
I agree with you on that.

Lets not forget the peculiar behaviour of SLI with certain games.....

[Infinity]

true, or it works great or it works very bad :( and then again: the price you pay for two 6600gt/6800gt is much more then one x800xl/xt and still be better performance/less noice/less heat then with the sli card...

I love the idea though but paying the double for an increase of 20% is not worth the $ if you know what I mean.

you'll do a good thing when you wait a little longer for that 6800gt, it'll cost you 200$ in a few months, like all cards btw

[Firecat]

Yup - I think I'll wait a bit - then buy a 6800GT or X800 Pro.

Although this is never discussed in the comparatives - I know exactly why Doom 3 runs so well on NV3x/NV4x. Do you wanna know?

[Infinity]

please tell Firecat, I don't know

[Firecat]

Well here it is:

The Doom 3 beta version scores showed NV3x having a very big performance improvement over Radeon 9xxx. This was b'coz:

1)John Carmack used a special code path for GeForce FX which used the following workarounds

-UltraShadow for Shadow Volumes Acceleration (FX 5700, 5900 and 5950 only)
-NVIDIA vendor-specific extensions were used instead of the default ARB standard codepath
-Carmack used 12-bit integer and 16bit floating point (FP16) colour in his shaders for NV3x, while Radeons used 24-bit floating point (FP24) colour all the time

After this, in the final version of Doom 3:

-UltraShadow is disabled by default (but enabled after installing 1.1 patch)

-There is a specific extension not available to my GeForce FX 5900 (but it is used in the game), therefore I believe it is using some specific Shader Model 3.0 features

-Doom 3 seems to prefer using texture lookups instead of math functions while using shaders (I read this somewhere).

Radeons do better at math code and GeForce does better at texture operations. There was a huge controversy on this, b'coz it seems that the texture lookups were solely used keeping NV3x/NV4x in mind. An independent coder substituted the texture lookups with math code and found only a minimal quality loss. However, a trained professional should be able to put in a shader using math code without problems.

-The shaders seem to use FP16 where possible for GeForce 6800 (but FP32 most of the time). What is interesting is that Doom 3 renders ALL the shaders in FP16 colour for GeForce FX graphics cards.

If you observe carefully, and go very very close to certain textures, on FX cards, there will be a slight colour banding. This is because every shader is rendered in FP16 colour for GeForce FX graphics cards.

The performance difference between R3xx and NV3x is very low now because John Carmack stopped using the 12-bit integer colour for some shaders and decided to use FP16 throughout for GeForce FX.

Because of FP16 being used on NV3x, I presume NVIDIA also used FP16 on GeForce 6 where it was possible - but I assume FP16 was not used all the time because the slight texture banding of NV3x is not seen on GeForce 6 series.

Seeing all that, it does not surprise me that GeForce cards perform better in Doom 3.

[Infinity]

Didn't know that, thanx for the heads up.

Actually, how is this Doom3? I know it is one of the heaviest games at the moment but do you know if is a pleasure to play it?

Thanx

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "Didn't know that, thanx for the heads up.

Actually, how is this Doom3? I know it is one of the heaviest games at the moment but do you know if is a pleasure to play it?

Thanx" }-
Well Doom 3 looks good and plays good, at times it gets boring, but it picks back up again.

But I get plain scared playing it - One level a day is good enough for me!

[Infinity]

one level a day lol Firecat...I have half life 2 now for a month and I am still at level 5...and I formatted my pc so I'll have to start all over again...I like it now better ;)

Thanx for sharing your insights Firecat.

[Sweetie(*)(*)]

Hi, to answer the question from above, im not a hard core gamer but i do enjoy playing a few of the newer games.

I keep my pc very clean so it mabey helped my score a little, also the ram i have is very good (geil ddr550 1024mb)

I will try running it again O/C at around 3.5-3.6ghz with minimal background processes etc.

[Firecat]

Dont OC your CPU Sweetie - You'd probably do better OCing your graphics card :)

Ask Infinity about that OK?

[Infinity]

it's a mix from both...if you overclock your cpu 10% (from 3Ghz to 3.3Ghz), your score (in 3dmark03) would be like like 100 points extra.

if you manage to overclock your card together with your cpu this will benefit the most for benchmarking.

overclocking cpu's isn't that dangerous anymore...all motherboard builders are offering built-in tools in bios and software and if you stay between the lines "they" say: you won't break the waranty...never had that prob Firecat, never...the only prob I had was with my powersupply ... *boem* *puppy*

the most important thing if you want to experiment:

1. is a good airflow (1*12mm fan in back and 1*12mm in front)
2. a good cpu cooler (zalman 7700CU - I managed from 62C idle to 41C idle with less noise)
3. good cooler on your graphic card like nv silencers...
4. Thermal Paste to conduct the heat from your cpu to the cooler...Arctic Silver 5 is the best, without that I have 52C (with standard paste) and like I said : 41C with AS5

only then you will have room for overclocking and playing around, seeking for that ultimate limit...except if you have enough money for watercooling or freezers :) (-35C)

[zfactor]

yep: i run water and vapo chill
water on gpu and northbridge and vapo on p4 3.2c
if you are gonna oc and go nuts make sure to test with a good stress test program. i.e.: if you oc and you go past the limit of your cpu you will start getting errors from the cpu. this usually gets corrected by keeping it cool to a certain extent only though. and you need to make sure the ram you have is capable of running at those speeds as well. i use ocz only have never had better oc's than with the ocz and it is stable as a rock pushed far beyond what it should be capable of. i am running a x800xt w/ danger den water and also danger den maze4 on northbride.
i have tried literaly every air cooler around and most can get you a decent oc but be aware of your temps once you go beyond thier limits temps rise very quickly. the zalman is decent at best for oc'ing. will not achieve great oc's
the swiftech is much better as is the thermaltake with the heat pipes.
forget ram sinks they do nothing really i tested many of them and got maybe 1-2 degrees f less with them.
find a capable motherboard is the first step, i use asus only anymore. tried all the rest abit gigabyte etc... great oc's but never stable enough

my setup:
p4 3.2c @ 4.19 ghz ( i run it at 4.5 for games )
ocz gold rev 2 2gb
2 western raptors in raid 0 and
two more in raid 1
asus p4c-800e deluxe
x800xt
self made case out of aluminum with vapo chill on top
danger den water gpu and northbridge

any 3.2 should get 3.6-3.8 on ait though with the right config and setup

by the way artic silver works great but change it often as it tends to dry up quite a bit and does not work very well over time. also be very careful getting the sink of the cpu with artci silver sometimes it can be almost like glue once heat cycled

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "Asus EN6600/TD/256M GeForce 6600 256MB DVI TV Out PCI-E

Does everything I need, I mainly play Command and Conquer Generals/Zero Hour and copes with that very well.

My Partner does a lot of Digital Photography and using Photoshop CS, I've had no complaints from her." }-

Any other comments on this card....................looking for the best bang for me buck(s) and only got 200 of them.............i'm running intel p4 3.2 GHz......w/512 MB PC3200 DDR400................nice thread Firecat :)

[Infinity]

yes, Firecat is our Graphic Card Specialist, I could smell that from faaaar away.

I have a P4 550 with Mushkins 2*512mb (2-3-2) from the ch5 familiy (winbond ch5 for the experts) and my mobo is the ASUS P5GDC-V DELUXE. The best board I ever had (everything can be voltmodded, edited,...) I have no possibility to overclock on the fly :( (except for bios but that isn't on the fly)...my x800xl can be oc'ed on the fly but I wish to do that to my cpu too.

When I had my msi board I could do this with CoreCenter software but only managed to get 3845Mhz (cause I couldn't set another voltage level).

but my mem wasn't the one I have now ;) the mushkins are famous overclock memory modules like bh5...

If someone could point me to an overclock software for oc'ing for pentiums (like clockgen for amd) I would be greatful.

Thanx

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "Any other comments on this card....................looking for the best bang for me buck(s) and only got 200 of them.............i'm running intel p4 3.2 GHz......w/512 MB PC3200 DDR400................nice thread Firecat :)" }-
Thanks :)

If you got 200 dollars, I recommend you look for the XFX or Leadtek GeForce 6600GT - It is noticeably better than the vanilla 6600 and costs under USD 200.

The vanilla 6600 can only be called as good as a GeForce FX 5900/5950 Ultra in general.

[Sweetie(*)(*)]

-{ Quote: "it's a mix from both...if you overclock your cpu 10% (from 3Ghz to 3.3Ghz), your score (in 3dmark03) would be like like 100 points extra.

if you manage to overclock your card together with your cpu this will benefit the most for benchmarking.

overclocking cpu's isn't that dangerous anymore...all motherboard builders are offering built-in tools in bios and software and if you stay between the lines "they" say: you won't break the waranty...never had that prob Firecat, never...the only prob I had was with my powersupply ... *boem* *puppy*
" }-

Hi I use the ASUS AI Booster, ive had it to just over 3.6ghz running well on a cooler night.

My case (Thermaltake Tsunami dream) has 2 x 120mm fans 1 x 90mm side fan
2 x 90mm PSU fans and standard Intel P4 CPU fan & heatsink. It runs very well, standard temp is 36c CPU 32c Ram, under load around 47c & 39c.

I can adjust the fan speed accordingly or let it run on auto, the case is a little wider than normal, the extra airflo really seems to make a difference.

[Infinity]

Tsunami cases are very good for keeping it cool :)

I have the ai booster too but I cannot get to overclock right...are you doing it from your bios? how do you lets say overclock your cpu without choosing which program needs it? I want general overclock for all my programs, not only one program. I hope you know what I mean...I tried NOS, but that is not what I want...Can you post some screenies please on where you do it exactly? I would appreciate it, cause this eve I am about to use clockgen but I rather stick with the tools asus made available for this .

Thanx

[Firecat]

This is gonna be interesting....and this is the longest thread I've ever made!!! :)

[zfactor]

infinity i would not use the ai for overclocking it does an ok job but also causes some issues as well. things such as core voltage and the likes are also adjusted by this ai and asus is known for voltage fluctuations that drastically affect a good oc. setting these manually you can always adjust a much better oc. all you really need to do is go in the bios od asus. adjust from there. any oc done in the bios will oc your cpu which is for all programs!!! all the time.
now a lot of decisions come into play here. what cpu? what ram? ram speed? what gpu? what model motherboard?? how large your power supply even affects a good oc. in the bios you should see jumper configuration. and in there it should say standard or manual. pick manual and then adjust away. at least with asus if you screw up and cause a problem it will revert back to default upon the next reboot. i could give you more if i knew your exact setup.

i went back and read you above thread again sorry. why would you want an on the fly oc???? softeware oc's are very unraliable and usually can not achieve what you can in the bios. if you have an asus board and use the manual setting as i mentioned and want to change it back reboot and set it to standard. it will remeber your setting if you want to put it back to manual

[Infinity]

I tried the asus tool and the clockgen tool both didn't satisfied at all. I am using my bios now :) 3645Mhz and will leave it for a while ;D

It took me half an hour to get to this clockspeed without loosing any memory timings which are 2-3-2-6 (mushkins 2*512mb PC3200 from the bh5 winbond chips :D)

the card is x800xl iceqII and psu is 480W with 26A on the 12V.

the card is good for 12000 3dmarks03 oc'ed with the built in overclock software on the card.

so I thank you for sticking with me on this overclock issue, I will see in the direct future for destressing the memtimings and overclock further.

:)

[zfactor]

if i can be of any help let me know

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "Thanks :)

If you got 200 dollars, I recommend you look for the XFX or Leadtek GeForce 6600GT - It is noticeably better than the vanilla 6600 and costs under USD 200.

The vanilla 6600 can only be called as good as a GeForce FX 5900/5950 Ultra in general." }-

Thanks Firecat..............sounds good, but my system has only 350 watts and 300 minimum is required............seems like i would be pushing it..............what do you think :-\

[zfactor]

dont mean to but in here. i have extensive hardware backround i actually used to make microchips from raw silicon at ibm in east fishkill, ny. i was then a photolithography tech for quite a long time for ibm. ive worked on chips for ti , nokia, dell, intel, etc....
anyway the newer nvidia are power hogs!!! i would recc at least a 450watt power supply for these cards. you can run them with less but there will be anomolies. you may not see them very well but they will be there. also the ram on these cards is very power hungry in the way it is laid out on the card.
i would also recc a veru good quality power supply. i.e. not a 29$ 500watt psu. these are junk!!!
some of the lower wattage ones will work well but keep in mind these are the expensive ones, if anyone questions me just pick up a good psu and them pick up a cheap one. feel the wieght difference?? people think otherwise but this does make a huge difference. the rails are much more massive in your better ones as are the quantity of components.
i only got involved here in this conversation because the results could be very very bad. some may not have a problem right away. but if you overdrive the rails in the psu you stand a chance with a cheap one of taking a lot of your components with it. ive seen motherboards hard drives etc all destructed by cheap psu's.

again sorry for butting in here but the ati cards use far less resources. i know they are more $$. i currently use the x800xt on one system and on the other a radeon 9800 pro (sapphire) flashed to an xt card. put ramsinks on it and can still oc it slightly and can play anything out there. yes things run a little smoother on my newer card but only minimal.

long story short if you want to play with the newer cards i recc a really good psu, 450 or more. ati will use less. ever since i found out that nvidia cheated on thier 3dmark scores a while back by purposly designing thier card to score really high in this area with specific drivers i have since refused to use thier cards.

[WSFuser]

so umm, i guess my antec 350 wont be sufficient for the second geforce 6600gt i want? im planning to upgrade my computer by the end of the year, but i was hoping my PSU would serve my needs and therefore wouldnt need to be replaced.

[zfactor]

antec's are okay not the best but far from the worst. you could use it like i said but definatly monitor your rail voltage with your mother boards software or by using probes on the lines out of the psu. you may end up with anomolies or white dots in certain scenes. you may not notice them some people dont unless they know what they are looking at. i have set people up with 350 but usually you cant take full advantage of the cards potential for a long time because as the draw on the card rises so does the power requirements. just be cautious. i personally use the thermaltake psu's not to expensive but solid as a rock. i have a 550 watt that was around 79$ but the 450 can be had for 40-49 usually from new egg. i think nvidia's 300 rating should be at least 400 or better 450.
i tested my rails with the new geforce cards and the amp draw was quite heavy from these compared to my ati this has been a long time issue with nvidia for a while now

[WSFuser]

between the following which would u recommend: CoolerMaster eXtreme Power ATX 430W Power Supply, Model "RS-430PMSR/P" -RETAIL (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-171-003&depa=0) or Thermaltake TR2 430W power Supply, with 6-pin PCI Express connector, 24(20) pin main connector, Model "W0070" -RETAIL (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-153-023&depa=0) the thermaltake seems better as im using an SLI board but the cooler master saves me a few bucks that ill pay in s&h anyways. any ideas?

[Firecat]

Well the GeForce cards do need an extra molex connector to feed all that power......

Rainwalker, I'd say you go for the Sapphire or PowerColor Radeon 9800 Pro - those should run fine on your PC ;)

[Infinity]

a 350W antec is better then a 350W psu from Qtec :D...I worked quite some months with the 350W Antec psu and 6600gt but I heard stories from guys purchasing 450W psu's and just couldn't handle the 12V line...you have to got at least 20A on the 12V on the psu cause practically everything is connected to the 12V.

this is a very interesting thread. and this eve I'll post a screenshot from my benchmark standard and overclocked.

greetz

[Firecat]

I'm running my 5900 on a 300W PSU....

[Infinity]

you will not experience any probs Firecat cause you work on an older socket and you don't have any whistles and bells on your pc.

mainly highend systems need bigger psu's

cheers

[Firecat]

How do you define 'Whistles and Bells' - for me that was always the newest features of a graphics card....

It does, however, also mean new features and technology...so please explain ;D

[Firecat]

Here's an interesting article about the Doom 3 technology (a speech by Mr.Carmack at QuakeCon):

http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=266373

Please tell me how much you understood of it. I didnt fully get it.

[Infinity]

:D, ok whistles and bells: extra harddrives, maybe in a raid config (you'll need extra amperes for every hdd you have), maybe some fan controller or extra fans (again you'll need extra amperes on the 12V line, maybe on the 5V line for the quite computing), some neon lights or sli config...

if someone has one of those on his rig, then I suggest having a quality psu and not an ordinary 20$ psu cause if something goes wrong: then you'll have to buy everything!!again :) cause a bad psu will damage everything connected to mobo and psu :(

I always saved some money on the psu and took the money I gained for a better gpu or cpu, but not anymore: a good psu is from the same importance then a good graphic card...and most importantly with the new sockets (especially intel socket ;)) I suggest good psu (antec, enermax, tagan, zalman, ocz)
If I would purchase one now: it would be tagan or ocz

take care

[Firecat]

OK Then I dont have bells and whistles except for multiple harddisks :)

[FanJ]

Eh...well... I use a Matrox Millennium G550 on this far too old machine ;)

What is the winning number of the lottery? :P

[Firecat]

Which lottery? ???

[FanJ]

-{ Quote: "Which lottery? ???" }-

LOL, doesn't matter as long as I have the winning one for a new PC ;)

[Firecat]

Any news on the overclock projects, Sweetie/Infinity/zfactor? ;D

Hey, do you suppose I can overclock my Asus V9950 FX 5900? ???

[Rainwalker]

@ zfactor,thank you for the power comments...very helpful.....do you think this power unit would be safe to use on my system should i get one of the more powerful cards ?
http://hardware.gamespot.com/Thermaltake-Silent-Purepower-Xaser-Edition-W0011-480-Watt-13040-O-16-23

and thank you again for jumping in ;)

[Infinity]

-{ Quote: "@ zfactor,thank you for the power comments...very helpful.....do you think this power unit would be safe to use on my system should i get one of the more powerful cards ?
http://hardware.gamespot.com/Thermaltake-Silent-Purepower-Xaser-Edition-W0011-480-Watt-13040-O-16-23

and thank you again for jumping in ;)" }-

that would be a perfect psu imho...it got 18A on the 12V but enermax is a very good choice, one of the top performers. it has actually some nice features like less dB and good airflow.

@ Firecat, there are some tools for overclocking your graphic card...probably you'll find some at your nvidea homepage I guess...lemme see this noon when I'm at my break at work.

ttyl

Inf.

[Infinity]

http://www.guru3d.com/rivatuner/

rivatuner should work with your graphic card and you will be able to read your temps if you want to overclock.

:) good luck and show some results if you will FC,

Andy

[Untouchable J]

Intel's crappy integrated Extreme 3d Graphics video card simply because I dont care about playing PC games. I'm a console gamer..... 8)

-J

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "Intel's crappy integrated Extreme 3d Graphics video card simply because I dont care about playing PC games. I'm a console gamer..... 8)

-J" }-
PS2 or XBox?

[iwod]

intel on board.... I wish they imporve it further and better driver for games.

[WSFuser]

-{ Quote: "intel on board.... I wish they imporve it further and better driver for games." }-
well integrated graphics are for ppl who dont play games or play games that dont need serious horsepower...n besides getting good onboard graphics would be expensive if not difficult.

[Rainwalker]

What do you guys think of this one
http://www.xpcgear.com/saatirax6pro.html

[Rainwalker]

and this....which might be the better
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122203

[Firecat]

From the product specifications, I'd go for the X600....the 6600 you mention is actually worse than a 5900 in some cases.

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "From the product specifications, I'd go for the X600....the 6600 you mention is actually worse than a 5900 in some cases." }-

Thank you Firecat...........i will keep that in mind and will probably post again as i am still looking....would prefer to find a decent card that will run on 350 watts and not have to upgrade...

[zfactor]

sorry for the delayed post rain i have been so busy of late. i use the thermaltake you mentioned earlier myself. i use it to run a full danger den water setup w/ a vapo chill chamber. also a x800 xt and my p4 3.2 c oc'ed to over 4.1 when gaming cranked to 4.5 on vapo. i see very fluctuations in the power rails of this unit. a nice feature is the automatic fan. as the draw goes up the fan speeds increase . great feature if you dont want to mount the fan control. anyway i agree with firecat on the x600 usually better performance then the other. i have buddy maybe selling a x800 pro pretty cheap as he just upgraded to the xt model i will see if he still has it and if so pm you if you are interested. . defenatly get a good psu though before getting any of these newer cards, ati not so much but the nvidia stuff is brutal on the rails. i deal with electronics every day. use to work for ibm in photolithography dept, went on to test software and write for a few companies. now i own a car audio business ( major change huh ) and i also do electronic repair. i am a master certified mecp installer and have extensive backround.
trust me one of the best investments you can make is a good psu. remember you can always change it to a different computer later on so dont skimp here.
most people dont realize the full potential of thier overclock until they get a good psu most will find they can go farther with thier chip than before. also please do go to your bios and set up your video card properly after you get it if you are oc'ing. a lot sepends on the mother board you have if you have questions ask i will do my best for you. these bios setting do much better and are far more stable set manually than just set as most do to auto settings.

also you should be able to run the x600 card on a 350 as long as no serious overclocking on the video card or the cpu you will be fine with it.

one more thing try www.newegg.com for a great deal on a video card sometime they have some killer deals there and the psu usually cheaper there to i buy from them almost exclusivly or www.zipzoomfly.com they are awsome also

[Rainwalker]

Thanks zfactor..............very helpful 8) .....how do you feel about me running an x700 card if i don't overclock......and is this any better>>>
ATI All-In-Wonder X600 Pro PCI Express 256MB DDR
as opposed to this>>>
Sapphire Radeon X700 Pro PCI Express 256MB DDR3 Video Card

BTW..........zipzoomfly did a number of port scans on me.........need to send them a thank you note for testing my firewall ::)

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "BTW..........zipzoomfly did a number of port scans on me.........need to send them a thank you note for testing my firewall" }-

:D:D:o

Well I think a Radeon X700 Pro should be able to run just fine :)

[YeOldeStonecat]

On my main gaming rig,
9800Pro 256 megger

Not long ago, stayed away from ATI due to driver issues. But since they began the "Catalyst" program, they said they'd do new drivers every month..and so far they've stuck to that promise. Happy with it.

Other rigs in my home have nVidia, although not the latest family, was always happy with them too..had been a die hard nVidia user since the first TNT1 16megger.

[zfactor]

you should be fine with the x700 and the 350watt. you could still oc but lightly dont go nuts or you may burn up the ram on the card, that goes first usually. it usually takes a lot to burn up the gpu , usually low voltage or over volting it like some try to do. just dont go nuts with a cpu oc with the 350 you will find the rails to drop significantly and poss burn up you c pu from the extra heat it will rpoduce with low voltage. even if you boost it up in the bios it could still fall very low especially if there not enough amps on the psu.

i have not ever seen this from zipzoomfly. i have ordered from them numerous times never had a single issue sometimes better deals thean newegg. i just visited the site and no port scans here??? i wonder what up with that??
but i can say they are trustworthy i can vouch for them never had a problem. you will only see very slightly better performance with the x700 over the 600. and sapphire cards are great i use them almost all the time. they actually are oem cards just rebranded as sapphire. they make oem cards for ati.

as stated the ati driver problem has been fixed a long time ago and never seen a problem since tried nvidia went back to ati never looked back. i have tried the newest nvidia cards and i personally prefer the performance of the ati's over nvidia. nvidia does well with certain games ati does well with almost everything!!!!

[zfactor]

what chipset do you have on your 9800 pro?? if its the 360 you know you can flash the card to a xt model witout any problems, good boost in performance and some extra features locked on the pro cards. if you are not sure check it out it will say r350 or r360. the 350 can be done but usually very unstable and the 360 is the same chipset as the xt was. also very easy to do

[Rainwalker]

Thanks guys 8) 8) ;D

[Trooper]

9800 Pro user here. ;D

[Firecat]

I never wanted to own this 5900....I wanted a 5800 Ultra. Its a collectors gfx card because no one purchased it. The infamous "dustbuster".

However, the 5800 Ultra is no slouch. Later drivers improved it so much, in some cases it performs better than the 5900 Ultra!

[Billy Blaze]

I actually just bought a Sapphire X850XTPE for my new computer. The fan is pretty loud though. By far the largest noise maker in my system so far. I can't wait to run some games on it! Hopefully I will have time soon to cryptosuite benchmark my new computer as well. I have not seen any benchmarks on that forum yet using the Pentium M Dothan core

[Firecat]

Hmm....I dont suppose your X850XT-PE would have a fan as loud as the dustbuster on the 5800U, would it? hmm...

[Billy Blaze]

heh never heard the fan on the 5800U before, but I believe the X850XTPE is louder than my Leadtek 6600GT. The fan noise is probably exaggerated though on my new computer since I only have 2 case fans and a really small CPU fan. I do believe the X850XTPE has a fan control feature though which is nice.

[Firecat]

Here's a quick statement from Tom's Hardware abouth the 5800 Ultra fan noise:

-{ Quote: "A further problem is the noise level. The fan produces an incredible racket on par with a vacuum cleaner - there's simply no other way to describe it. You can hear the card even if you're in another room of the house." }-

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "Here's a quick statement from Tom's Hardware abouth the 5800 Ultra fan noise:" }-

:o :o ....what about the noise level with the X700 :-\ ......don't like noise

[Firecat]

The online reviews say that the Sapphire X700 Pro has a quiet, nice cooler :)

My Asus V9950 has a special cooler which is much quieter than other FX 5900s, and is moderately overclockable :)

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "The online reviews say that the Sapphire X700 Pro has a quiet, nice cooler :)

My Asus V9950 has a special cooler which is much quieter than other FX 5900s, and is moderately overclockable :)" }-

Good to hear...................owe you a cold one Firecat :)
Hmmm..... do Firecats like their drinks cold :-\

[Firecat]

Its summer here so I'll take a cold one ;D

hehe....I wonder how anyone with an FX 5800U would enjoy any game, when that dustbuster is vacumm cleaning (:P;D) like hell.....

[Infinity]

If BillyBlaze change from stock cooler to a silencer then he won't hear his vga anymore.
@ Firecat : have you tried a passive cooler from Zalman yet? it's only 15$ I believe and it's worth the money imho.

I had my 6600gt passively cooled ;) and the max was 50C

[Billy Blaze]

I have not heard about a silencer for the Ati X850XTPE... is there a link available?

I do not know if I would be interested in replacing the stock fan on my Sapphire even if it is a little loud. I put on Artic Silver 5 on my new CPU for the first time and that was traumatic enough for me. I believe the warranty goes out the window on your card if you decide to mod it as well doesn't it?

The problem I feel with passive cooling though is that the ram sinks/heat pipes are just transferring heat into the rest of your case isn't it? You are going to need very good case cooling.

[Infinity]

-{ Quote: "I have not heard about a silencer for the Ati X850XTPE... is there a link available?

I do not know if I would be interested in replacing the stock fan on my Sapphire even if it is a little loud. I put on Artic Silver 5 on my new CPU for the first time and that was traumatic enough for me. I believe the warranty goes out the window on your card if you decide to mod it as well doesn't it?

The problem I feel with passive cooling though is that the ram sinks/heat pipes are just transferring heat into the rest of your case isn't it? You are going to need very good case cooling." }-

Arctic Silencers are considered to be one of the most effective cooling units except for h²o and dry ice *puppy* I have it on my x800xl modded to xt and it is 38C idle and 50C full load. unhearable and you can change the rpm's of vga card

http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=61

the HIS X850XT ICEQII Turbo (Like HIS Excalibur) has a built in silencer...which turns of in reflective blue ;D (I have the same but x800XL)

http://www.hisdigital.com/html/product_ov.php?id=167&view=yes

http://www.hisdigital.com/html/product_ov.php?id=153&view=yes

Edit: there shouldn't be any prblem for removing stock for better...no prbs at all, even I managed to do that ;D every card has the possibility to change their stuff.
Arctic Silver5 + Zalman 7700Cu for me was idle: from 57C to 41C and full load 68 to 55
it's a cpu saviour for amd as well 8)

take care

[Billy Blaze]

Yeah I have heard a lot of good things about the Artic Silencers. Perhaps if temps get too high on my video card I may consider giving it a try. Have to do some gaming and see how high I can get my temps on full load. The design of the Artic Silencers however appear to be quite similar to the stock fan on my X850XTPE. Have you done any comparisons with your stock fan versus Artic Silencer?

[Infinity]

the stock fan is a silencer. I have the HIS X800XL ICEQII Turbo and the card comes with the nv silencer but a special edition that lights up (like pic.) but a friend has the same card without the silencer and my temps are 40 and his 53 idle so...

take care

Inf

[Firecat]

How good is a passive cooler vs. active ones?

[Billy Blaze]

Some argue that passive cooling is quieter and still able to distribute heat away from the core. But the problem is that many heatpipes depend on good case ventilation and airflow. So you will need VERY good case cooling. To me there seems very little advantage in the quietness argument. I say this because it is very likely that you will have to add additional case fan(s) to your system to not only improve airflow for the heatpipes on your video card but to compensate from the heat distributed from those heatpipes.

You can take a look here of a review conducted on the Gigabye Radeon X800XL which uses heatpipes.

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1756&page=2

[Rainwalker]

This is the one i am now thinking about.
http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/FeedBack/CustratingReview.asp?item=N82E16814102405

would it be a good choice with my machine or is there a better x700 pro
like maybe this
http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/FeedBack/CustratingReview.asp?item=N82E16814123148

a lot of $......need to make the right choice

[Firecat]

Sapphire is one of the top-tier ATI card manufacturers. I'd recommend you go with Sapphire.

Abit, is focused more on value, but performs nice too.

I'd say that the Abit would perform slightly better than the Sapphire (the Abit has 5Mhz extra core clock), but I'd choose Sapphire for reliability.

Both cards are really good, and the ultimate choice is up to you.

[Infinity]

-{ Quote: "Sapphire is one of the top-tier ATI card manufacturers. I'd recommend you go with Sapphire.

Abit, is focused more on value, but performs nice too.

I'd say that the Abit would perform slightly better than the Sapphire (the Abit has 5Mhz extra core clock), but I'd choose Sapphire for reliability.

Both cards are really good, and the ultimate choice is up to you." }-

Yep I've been hearing great things on those Sapphire Cards too...great overclockers.

regarding the question on the heating...well, I experience the noice and heating like this:
Papst is manufacturer of fans till 12mm. The fans are constructed in a special way making the "blowing" very strong with very little noise (19dB=unheareable practically). So I have in front and in back a fan of 12mm, the frontfan at 1400RPM and backfan at 2000Rpm cause that is quiet too. the psu has a controller to control the fans of powersupply.
if I play HalfLife I just put on the fans a bit faster so my cpu and vga remains 38-40C.
better cooling doesn't mean it's gettting louder...not at all.
@Billy Blaze : you cannot compare HIS with Gigabyte...better compare HIS with Sapphire but the HIS has better cooling ;)

[Rainwalker]

I am sold ...i will go with Sapphire, but will i need extra fans with the x700 Pro..
I have 350 watts power w/single fan
Asus P5GD1-vm
Pentium 4 540 3.2 Ghz
Intel oversized heatsink/fan w/thermal controlled variable speed fan

[Infinity]

Do you have a exhaust fan at the rear? And in the front? Cause that is very important to create a decent airflow. cold air from the front to the back while cooling the hdd's and cpu/vga.
I am concerned about your power supply. if you have (like me) a prescott then the powersupply can only be good if you have enough Amperes on the 12V.
Intels are very powerhungry and you have the newer prescott's so your mobo is setup through the 12V...you need a lot of Amperes. Especially when you have a good graphics card combined with Pressies :) ... it's like the engine of your hardware giving 'juice' to your peripherals...that must be important on the long term...it's like an investment and it's better for your rig.

have fun :)

[Rainwalker]

Thanks for getting back Infinity.......rear only....i will get a front fan as you suggest.......my PU is a 350 watt Antec.......how do you, or anyone else for that matter, feel about that ....

[Infinity]

-{ Quote: "...my PU is a 350 watt Antec.......how do you, or anyone else for that matter, feel about that ...." }-

Antec is a good brand, like Enermax and Tagan. the price isn't that expensive and the quality is sometimes better then those 30$ 600W powersupplies :D

I had the same antec psu like you have. my cpu is 3.4 with 6600gt and it managed perfectly...so don't worry.

important is then inside airflow...so your cpu temps will drop too. I saw at my friends house the temps rise to 85C ;D - "hmmm, Andy...isn't that normal?" ;D ... like I said: amd is much better with this...allways been :P

have fun...and watch out with installing stuff...cause I blew my own two weeks ago :-[

Andy

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "

I had the same antec psu like you have. my cpu is 3.4 with 6600gt and it managed perfectly...so don't worry.

have fun...and watch out with installing stuff...cause I blew my own two weeks ago :-[

Andy" }-

OK Andy.......sounds good.....i just discovered there are two Antec 350 models.....which one did you have....Smartpower or Smartpower 2.0
http://www.antec-inc.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=26350
So how did you blow what :o :'(

[Infinity]

-{ Quote: "OK Andy.......sounds good.....i just discovered there are two Antec 350 models.....which one did you have....Smartpower or Smartpower 2.0
http://www.antec-inc.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=26350
So how did you blow what :o :'(" }-

This was my case I bought some time ago: SLK3750 with this power supply:

http://www.antec-inc.com/specs/sl350_spe.html

case :http://www.antec-inc.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=93703

I purchased a needed a new psu cause the card I have at the moment: x800xl which is heavier on the 12V then the 6600gt...:( and when I exchanged the old psu and inserted the new one (Antec truecontrol 550W) it blew up. then new motherboard and the dvd burner too...it was horrible :( but I learned my lesson well ;) never play with psu's anymore lol

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "
I purchased a needed a new psu cause the card I have at the moment: x800xl which is heavier on the 12V then the 6600gt...:( and when I exchanged the old psu and inserted the new one (Antec truecontrol 550W) it blew up. then new motherboard and the dvd burner too...it was horrible :( but I learned my lesson well ;) never play with psu's anymore lol" }-

:o :o DUDE :o ..............NO FUN.......hey,...i assumed i had had an antec because i went to the seller's site ( Velocity Micro ) and they indicated that that there PUs were Antec...well, i just pulled the cover and guess what ...the pu is a HiPro HP-P401WP(PEE-U).........i am not happy >:( .....what do you think of that unit...it seems like crapola to me..
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817174013&CMP=OTC-pr1c3watch&ATT=Power+Supply+for+Cas

[Billy Blaze]

-{ Quote: "better cooling doesn't mean it's gettting louder...not at all.
" }-

Any type of additional active cooling will be adding noise. How discernable the noise is, is the question. In the context of passive cooling for video cards, it is very dependant on the airflow and cooling of the case. Video cards with their own fan are not as dependant on these factors. If a computer is already setup with good case fans and the airflow is good then passive cooling for the video card should be fine. Just keep in mind that it WILL be producing more heat within the case. Whether you will have to add additional case fans to compensate is up to the user. That was the point I wanted to make. Many people just think they can get passively cooled video cards and be all setup minus the noise that the video card fan produces. But in reality the setup might be louder so that one can provide good airflow to cool the heatpipes on the card.

-{ Quote: "
@Billy Blaze : you cannot compare HIS with Gigabyte...better compare HIS with Sapphire but the HIS has better cooling" }-

I was not actually making any comparisons at all. A question was asked about passive vs active cooling and I thought I would add my perspective.

-{ Quote: "i assumed i had had an antec because i went to the seller's site ( Velocity Micro ) and they indicated that that there PUs were Antec...well, i just pulled the cover and guess what ...the pu is a HiPro HP-P401WP(PEE-U)" }-

How did you come to the assumption that the PSU would be Antec? Can you provide a direct link (if possible) to the product you purchased. 350W seems a little under powered, but depends on your CPU, video card, and how many other devices you have connected in your computer. If this was a mistake by the seller you should definitely send them an email or call their office.

[Infinity]

yes, true BillyBlaze, but the time where all those fans produce lot's of noise are over, and thank God for that :) I can tell you that my computer isn't making any noise and I love that cause I hate the sound of it ;) my previous computer was a landmower or something...it was waaay to noisy. Passive cooling is unheard off for high end graphic cards imho...the temps can rise till 70 or 80C cause it is necessary for fans, no matter what. 12mm fans doesn't make that much noise here and my temps are 41C idle with prescott 550 (3.4) so I consider this to be good for my cpu as well in the long term.

sorry bout the misunderstanding regarding the comparision.

@ Rainwalker: Sorry to hear that! you should definately send them an email or whatever cause if you can prove they promised you an Antec maybe they will fix it cause such an Antec would be just good enough for your rig ;)

have a sunny day

Andy :)

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "
How did you come to the assumption that the PSU would be Antec? Can you provide a direct link (if possible) to the product you purchased. 350W seems a little under powered, but depends on your CPU, video card, and how many other devices you have connected in your computer. If this was a mistake by the seller you should definitely send them an email or call their office." }-

Greetings Billy............my presumption was a result of this page
http://www.velocitymicro.com/vendors.php?PHPSESSID=d2af39b512b64fdfd3a999c249ec19c9

Yes, i intend to call them, but i am not hopeful..........very disappointed in them so far as a result of this................btw... it seems i will need to replace the pu and after Andy's horror story i am nervious about doing so. Would it not be a simple matter to buy the same brand (HiPro) and simply unplug one connection at a time and replace it with the new connection....i am thinking that the harness would be the same ....or are all the PUs that i might buy ( one of the ones we have written about) have the same( non-confusing if installed as i suggested ) harness :-\

[Rainwalker]

Has anyone tried this...
http://www.directron.com/xtreme.html

looks interesting

[Infinity]

Hi Rainwalker, those antinoise things aren't that good...I read about those things on a lot of places (hardware fora) and the results weren't that good.

the easiest way is to buy two 12mm fans (front and back) and if you can control the speed then you can control the noise/heat and it's cheaper then those damper kits :).

[Rainwalker]

OK, thanks Andy.......have not added fans, so a basic question.....are all fans the same as far as mounting configuration.........in other words..are all mid towers configured to take both 12mm,16mm, 40mm, and 60mm ?
I have been thinking of getting this..
http://www.quietpcusa.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=8&Product_ID=220&CATID=7
with this
http://www.quietpcusa.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=8&Product_ID=69&CATID=7
??
BTW..would i expect fan to come w/mounting hardware ?

[Infinity]

I think I made a mistake...sorry those fans I am talking about are 12cm or 120mm...the bigger the fans, the less noise they make when spinning and the more air flows.

papst, enermax, zalman and antec are good

you cannot go wrong with the 120mm fans on this page (just watch out your case supports 120mm fans...cause sometimes the case permits only 80mm fans :(

http://www.quietpcusa.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=8&ObjectGroup_ID=14&CATID=7

[Rainwalker]

Well, mistakes are a part of life.............i have learned i need an 80mm and will order one from that site....
Enjoy your evening :)

[Infinity]

http://www.quietpcusa.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=8&Product_ID=109&CATID=7

then your best bet would be this Papst fan...very good reviews and is used by every fanatic I know...Enjoy your eve too Rainwalker :)

Andy

[Infinity]

take the papst fan and put it in the rear. cause this papst fan will take much more air then your other fan. so you'll have cold air from front to the back, cooling all units...
make sure that your rear fan's rpm are higher then your front fan's rpm...so you create a cold airflow inside your case.

[Rainwalker]

I was just now looking at that page and the Silentmaxx seemed like it might be a better idea as it has a rheostat.....know anything about them....
BTW....here in Alaska it's 7:30am MONDAY : >(

[Infinity]

so your case only supports the 80mm?

here it is 17u36pm in Belgium (time to go home from work btw :D)

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "take the papst fan and put it in the rear. cause this papst fan will take much more air then your other fan. so you'll have cold air from front to the back, cooling all units...
make sure that your rear fan's rpm are higher then your front fan's rpm...so you create a cold airflow inside your case." }-

Will do

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "so your case only supports the 80mm?

here it is 17u36pm in Belgium (time to go home from work btw :D)" }-

Must be nice.................i am now going to work :P

[Firecat]

12:33 AM, Tuesday here at the time of typing :P

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "12:33 AM, Tuesday here at the time of typing :P" }-

Really :o come on Firebird...where are you ....tell it like it is...you don't have to name town..unless you care to :-\

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "Really :o come on Firebird...where are you ....tell it like it is...you don't have to name town..unless you care to :-\" }-
:P

Exactly 8 AM Tuesday as I type this :)

[Rainwalker]

What would you guys say about this...
"Rating + 3Rating + 3xcavatr, 2/5/2005 9:22:32 PM
Bought this and a gigabyte 6600gt for comparison. Overall pretty good card, but the 6600gt blew it out of the water. Well over 200pts 3dmark 05 on the same system. Had a 9700 pro and I didn't see the ... More »
Bought this and a gigabyte 6600gt for comparison. Overall pretty good card, but the 6600gt blew it out of the water. Well over 200pts 3dmark 05 on the same system. Had a 9700 pro and I didn't see the dramatic improvement I was looking for. Really expected more out of this card than it delivered(especially with 256mb of ram).So its back to nvidia for me.New Egg's great.
P4 socket t @ 3.0ghz
Intel 915GAV board
1 Gig Hyper x ddr 400"

from Newegg http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102405
also........is there a differance between

X700 Pro and X700 Pro Hybred ....also is the one shown at Newegg an ATI.....people are complaining about the Newegg item being 'Lite"...what else, if anything, might be missing other then Powerdvd and games.................i have been looking for the best price for ATI non/lite and have not come up with much...any ideas :-\

[Firecat]

Try Club3D or Gigabyte. if they produce ATI cards you can get an excellent bundle for a great price :)

Warning: Club3D cards are probably made in China.

[Firecat]

Here's a list of X700 Pros:

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Manufactory=&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A10517&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&description=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&SubCategory=48&Submit=Property

The Abit seems nice to me...overall nice performance.

[Firecat]

Here's a list of 6600GTs if you go that way:

http://www2.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Manufactory=&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A10550&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=696%3A9641&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&description=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&SubCategory=48&Submit=Property

The eVGA is nice, and the MSI is great from what I hear. Gigabyte's not bad either.

[beetlejuice69]

Me, I use the all-in-wonder 9600 series. I`m not a gamer so...


:)

[Infinity]

so you can watch television on your computer? Must be nice imo...I had to move my computer...so now I'm in the neighbourhood of my livingroom lol. I tried to plug in the television onto my graphic card but it didn't work out :) -so what else is new lately?...-

Honestly...I wish we had a newegg kinda shop here too, cause I saw once a downloaded version of Boclean there for 23$ and the stuff I had to do to finaly receive Boclean was waaay to indirect and timeconsuming...
At the end it worked and all was well but I won't do that for more expensive stuff...too risky :D
I saw on some reviews that the 6600gt was better then x700pro...
Anandtech has some reviews too on I believe 10 different 6600gt's...
If you scroll down you can see some real winners. (Jade's XFX is rated very good, mine was less cause they received a broken one)
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2295

[Rainwalker]

A big thanks again.....you guys are always helpful 8)
@ Infinity....great site ;D

[Infinity]

-{ Quote: "A big thanks again.....you guys are always helpful 8)
@ Infinity....great site ;D" }-

Yeaahh, I thought you would like it ;D

take care

Andy

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "Yeaahh, I thought you would like it ;D

take care

Andy" }-

Yeah, very cool

[muf]

It's a waste of money using a pc for playing games. All these fantastic graphics cards for what? Two years of playing games. And month by month the games you buy play slower and slower until you end up turning down the resolution and then the graphic detail. I came to the conclusion that a pc is best used for pc stuff and a games console for games. I have in this old pc a 64mb Geforce Ultra that cost me £450(or $850) in January 2001. Now i can't think about playing games like Far Cry or Doom 3 on it. But i have an xbox which plays Doom 3 fine. I compared the graphics in the xbox version with the pc version and although the pc version is better, it's not THAT much better that i'd want to pay $500 for a state of the art graphics card.

Console gaming is obviously much different than pc gaming, but you get used to it. I did the clan thing for 6 years with Half Life Team Fortress Classic. Keyboard+mouse=lethal combo. But the console joypad is very useful too once you get used to it.

I just feel that using a pc for games, having to continually upgrade to be able to play these games is a massive waste of money. Buy a console and you will be guaranteed 4 or 5 years for your one-off £250 purchase. Playing the latest games for the same period on a pc with the required upgrades would cost easily 3 times that.

My next pc won't even take into consideration the graphics card it has. As long as i can get on windows and use my pc as a pc then i'll be happy. I'll be getting an xbox 2 when it's out, and that will see me right for the next 4 years or so then it'll be an xbox 3(PS3, PS4) or whatever. But a pc for games. Bit of a mugs game.

muf

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "It's a waste of money using a pc for playing games. All these fantastic graphics cards for what? Two years of playing games. And month by month the games you buy play slower and slower until you end up turning down the resolution and then the graphic detail. I came to the conclusion that a pc is best used for pc stuff and a games console for games. I have in this old pc a 64mb Geforce Ultra that cost me £450(or $850) in January 2001. Now i can't think about playing games like Far Cry or Doom 3 on it. But i have an xbox which plays Doom 3 fine. I compared the graphics in the xbox version with the pc version and although the pc version is better, it's not THAT much better that i'd want to pay $500 for a state of the art graphics card.

Console gaming is obviously much different than pc gaming, but you get used to it. I did the clan thing for 6 years with Half Life Team Fortress Classic. Keyboard+mouse=lethal combo. But the console joypad is very useful too once you get used to it.

I just feel that using a pc for games, having to continually upgrade to be able to play these games is a massive waste of money. Buy a console and you will be guaranteed 4 or 5 years for your one-off £250 purchase. Playing the latest games for the same period on a pc with the required upgrades would cost easily 3 times that.

My next pc won't even take into consideration the graphics card it has. As long as i can get on windows and use my pc as a pc then i'll be happy. I'll be getting an xbox 2 when it's out, and that will see me right for the next 4 years or so then it'll be an xbox 3(PS3, PS4) or whatever. But a pc for games. Bit of a mugs game.

muf" }-


GREAT ::) Just when i finally had it all sorted you come along with this :P ............ your point was well presented and taken.............now what the h** am i supposed to do ;D
..............good grief.....heading for the frig :'(

[Firecat]

Point noted....however, back in the past, things were really not meant to be as future-proof as they are today.

Any GeForce FX 5900 or Radeon 9800 card, two years down the road, is able to play Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 perfectly well - no quality loss, nice performance.

Another two years from now - Yes, the current graphics cards will have to play at lower detail levels - but the hardware will still be exploited to the maximum. This means, its gonna look better than the games two years ago, no matter the detail level!

The GeForce 1 and 2 were ignored cards, their per-pixel features manage to do PS 1.1 ops in many cases, but those features are hardly used because they are not easily exposed :(

[muf]

-{ Quote: "Another two years from now - Yes, the current graphics cards will have to play at lower detail levels - but the hardware will still be exploited to the maximum. This means, its gonna look better than the games two years ago, no matter the detail level!" }-

I find that a very odd statement. If you turn down the detail level then the game will not look as good as it is meant to be. Take the xbox, the games played on it for 4 years will all be as good graphically. No having to turn down the detail levels. And yes of course they can squeeze every little bit of performance out of it that they can. Also take into consideration that pc's have problems with drivers, software glitches, bugs and hardware incompatibilities. Games consoles don't suffer this problem. Like they don't suffer the fate that Doom 3 looks better on a ninja pc at 1600x1200 with detail set at ultra high compared to middle-man's pc at 800x600 low detail setting. All games console games look and play the same on all consoles.

muf

[Infinity]

Point taken Muf.

But if it were for everyone around we would still be using the old version of ms word 3.0 cause it was good enough then...so why renewing and revamping hardware for playing games?...It's a hobby first of all, and why having three different machines if you can do everything with one ;D

One of the main reasons why we still are able to play the latest games on those consoles: let's install Kaspersky, Ewido and Tiny on that XBox and see if it is still able to play those games? afaik the processor in the consoles are P4 1400Mhz...it wouldn't handle the games right if you surf and browse/burn music while typing a letter... on that gamingconsole I guess.

But I do understand what you're saying! Enjoy the rest of the weekend :)

Andy

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "I find that a very odd statement. If you turn down the detail level then the game will not look as good as it is meant to be. Take the xbox, the games played on it for 4 years will all be as good graphically. No having to turn down the detail levels. And yes of course they can squeeze every little bit of performance out of it that they can. Also take into consideration that pc's have problems with drivers, software glitches, bugs and hardware incompatibilities. Games consoles don't suffer this problem. Like they don't suffer the fate that Doom 3 looks better on a ninja pc at 1600x1200 with detail set at ultra high compared to middle-man's pc at 800x600 low detail setting. All games console games look and play the same on all consoles.

muf" }-
Point noted :)

What I meant to say was that Doom 3 at low detail still looks better than Max Payne at high detail :)

That effectively proves that even at lower details, games of the future will look better on your PC than the current games at high details :)

Consoles, currently have just one problem - hardware expandability. While they can offer excellent speed - the hardware may or may not allow for some features to be enabled - Floating point color for example (this is the main reason why Xbox doom 3 does not look as good as PC doom 3).

When a console is released, it offers the best tech, but no upgradeability - it can limit a developer in quite a few ways. Therefore the developers have to spend more time optimising for the consoles. This is why some developers choose to make their games only for PS2 or XBox - so they can optimise better for those.

[muf]

Firecat and Infinity.

Good points you bring up there. Consoles have a major disadvantage in their incapability to be upgraded, and yes if i installed some security apps on an xbox it would bring it to it's knee's.

Wouldn't it be nice if pc's lasted for at least 10 years for running the latest security/business apps. And games consoles were upgradeable and only cost about $50 for the latest graphics chip to bring it up to date. Well we can dream!

Thanks for your thoughts ppl and have a good day. :D

muf

[Firecat]

-{ Quote: "Wouldn't it be nice if pc's lasted for at least 10 years for running the latest security/business apps. And games consoles were upgradeable and only cost about $50 for the latest graphics chip to bring it up to date. Well we can dream!" }-

Lets hope it becomes a reality someday :)

[pndan]

how much is the fx 6600?

[Firecat]

Anywhere from about USD 115 to USD 200, depending upon whether you want to buy GeForce 6600LE, 6600GT or just the vanilla 6600..

[Close_Hauled]

You did not ask about Matrox. We have several multi monitor systems that use Matrox. One system has four 21" monitors being driven by one card.

[Devinco]

There really should be a Matrox (at least Parhelia) in this poll.
They have the best quality 2D and multi-monitor setup.
The 3D speed is not great, but it depends on what you use you computer for.
If you are an avid 3D gamer, then forget it.
Otherwise they rock.

[Firecat]

I'm sorry, my mistake. I do know of Matrox, they have excellent 2D solutions.

About the Parhelia, I want to ask a question - Is it really capable of doing floating point ops with the vertex shader? ???

[Devinco]

Hi Firecat,

I looked, but couldn't find any info about it.
I think tomshardware, maybe anandtech, did a review a while back.

You could ask here:
http://forum.matrox.com/mga/index.php?c=14

Keep on roaring.

[Rainwalker]

How would you guys compare the Leadtek PX6800TDH Geforce 6800 256MB 256-bit DDR PCI Express x16 card with the H.I.S. Radeon X800GT IceQ card ?

[TonyW]

To be honest, I haven't a clue what graphics card I have!

[kalpik]

Well i have a Gainward FX5700LE. Hows this gfx card??

[Slovak]

I use the 9800xt, and it is indeed a great card, but next time around I am definately going Nvidia due to lack of linux driver support for ati. I'd even trade my 9800xt for a 5950 ultra if someone wanted to.

[Rainwalker]

I'm running a PX6800 256 MB and have turned on Coolbits.....i use the Winfast program that came with to bump the clocks up to recommended optimized settings.....have also installed Riva 2.0 Build 15.7 and more or less used the defaults.....a few days ago the Winfast program otimized to 416 and 783.......today(for reasons i do not understand)it was 408 and 767........is it ok to keep these programs running or should i drop one and if so, which one.....

[Firecat]

Coolbits is OK. But just use the Winfast program and not RivaTuner.

@kalpik - Your graphics card is:

DX7 games - good
DX8 games - OK
DX9 games - not so good

[ErikAlbert]

I have this one, but I don't play games, I'm not interested in any graphic applications. So my graphics card is a poor man's solution :)
Sapphire (PCI-E) X550 Advantage 256M DDR PCI-E VGA/TVO/DVI-I Heatsink 128bit 200Mhz
The prize was crucial in my choice : 82 EURO.

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "Coolbits is OK. But just use the Winfast program and not RivaTuner.

@kalpik - Your graphics card is:

DX7 games - good
DX8 games - OK
DX9 games - not so good" }-
Thanks Firecat :)
BTW..i just made 1000 posts...not much compared to some, but a lot for me......long live Wilders....

[kalpik]

-{ Quote: "Coolbits is OK. But just use the Winfast program and not RivaTuner.

@kalpik - Your graphics card is:

DX7 games - good
DX8 games - OK
DX9 games - not so good" }-

Hmm... not very comforting! But thanks anyways! :P

[Infinity]

-{ Quote: "Thanks Firecat :)
BTW..i just made 1000 posts...not much compared to some, but a lot for me......long live Wilders...." }-

Congratz RainWalker !

-{ Quote: "I'm running a PX6800 256 MB and have turned on Coolbits" }-

splendid, PciE is very stable good performer! may I ask what brand of 6800 Nvidia?

grtz!

/edit: reason why asking? .. possibility for you to upgrade it with bios flash to GT6800 :D

;)

[NGRhodes]

TNT1 1999 (approx) vintage on my server (well its a server).

Laptop has some rubbish built in intel 3d junk, but I dont play games so does'nt bother me.

[Bob D]

3D Labs Wildcat VP 800 (dual monitor)
Backup mach: ATI Radeon 9600SE (dual monitor)
No gamers here. CAD / graphics.

[divedog]

7800gt, here is my 3dmark05 score.

[Sonap]

GeForce FX 5600XT

Regards,
sonap

[Brian N]

7800GT [256, pci-e x16]