Uncensored Teaser

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The uncensored thread can be found here:

http://illusivesecurity.il.funpic.de/viewtopic.php?t=62


(Please feel free to delete this thread. This will further support Wilder's reputation as a censored forum.)

[LowWaterMark]

Post what you want on your own forum. Here, we don't approve of the reposting of private emails and private messages. As such, that part of your posting in the other thread was removed. That's the way we do things here.

[LookinATsoftware]

-{ Quote: "Post what you want on your own forum. Here, we don't approve of the reposting of private emails and private messages. As such, that part of your posting in the other thread was removed. That's the way we do things here." }-


Yes, it is that policy and a few others that sometimes stifles the free-flow of information. I guess you are trying to maintain a balancing act. I get some useful information here but I think i have to go other forums that let more information flow to get a even more balanced point of view (Not just talking about going to Nautilus forum either...)

I had wanted to make a post to that other thread that maybe a few might have found informative but now I can't because it is closed. :(




LookingAT Software

[LowWaterMark]

Well, different forums allow different things, I guess. Some allow links to live malware, cracks, keygens and porn. We don't - for obvious reasons. More subtly, some forums would not object to the reposting of private communications like emails and PMs, or the posting of personally directed bashing statements or trolling comments. We tend to remove those as well. It's a difference in style really. If conversation is stifled because of these rules, so be it.

[LookingATsoftware]

It is not so much that conversation is stifled. It is just that I am personally looking for a little more information concerning the security programs that I want to possibly put on my computer. I sometimes find that the things that I want to know most about in order to make a determination sometimes gets cut-off.

Thank you for discussing your limitations. I guess I will have to go elsewhere when looking for the information I require to make a informed decision. I will still read things here but I know I have to go elsewhere to get the last pieces of the puzzle.

As an aside. I personally feel that Nautilus does not go that far out of bounds. He goes about as far out of bounds as the AV/AT companies do. There are some people that see the world as Good VS Evil.....Black Vs White but the world I see not only has many shades of gray but also has many different colors. Saying a color does not exist because one can only see in Black & White does not make the color any less real.

I strongly suspect that all AT/AV companies reverse engineer software. Many even do it to their competitors for many different reasons....maybe some do it to make sure their software is compatible with other software.....maybe some do it to steal competitors ideas, maybe some do it to trash other competitors on boards like this. I seem to recall one competitor virtually admitting to reverse engineering another AT companies software in order to trash it on a board like this. That AT company is considered one of the "Good" guys but as far as I am concerned the "Good" Guys operate in a very grey world where some good guys do cross the line....It appears the only rule is don't get caught or you might get impeached like Richard Nixon.

Nautilus is just about as Grey as the people at Kaspersky, BoClean, MCafee, Symantec, DCS, Trojanhunter, Ewido, A2 or any of the rest. I don't know about you but when any of these companies cry foul about Nautilus...well, I just laugh. Don't get me wrong...Nautilus may or may not be wrong in his assumptions and I also think most security companies are the "Good Guys" but I don't think for a second they are not above crossing certain lines...reverse engineering software is probably only just one of the lines many AV/AT companies cross. I said my piece.....Everyone have a great day...


LookingATsoftware


LookingAT software

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1.
I feel that the entire "private email arguement" was just an excuse for deleting my own comments. This is because I did NOT post any delicate parts of the private emails but only parts which are equivalent to what Magnus publicly posted in this forum. (Look at our forum where you can see the uncensored thread). The excerpts posted were completely harmless.

What Paul probably did not like was my OWN argument: I had already discussed the benefits of a closed signature database with Magnus several months ago and, therefore, it is pretty clear that Magnus' surprise ("However, your constant attacks which anyone with a bit of computer knowledge can tell is complete rubbish is actually making me consider removing custom detection rules entirely from the next version of TrojanHunter. -- this is not a cite from the private email but from Magnus public post) is faked.

The other deleted comments were removed for unknown reasons although I suspect to know the reasons. I addition, my tone was less rude than the tone of Paul.


2.
"I strongly suspect that all AT/AV companies reverse engineer software. Many even do it to their competitors ..."

Exactly. I have this in writing from a well-respected AT/AV developer who
may have a subforum at Wilders ;-)

It would be interesting to ask Magnus whether he can confirm that he has never reverse-engineered the soft of his competitors.

And once again: we did not reverse-engineer TH. I am still investigating whether it is illegal to post a screenshot of the patched version and/or to apply the patch. TH's license agreement does not cover this issue. Magnus has not not clearly distinguished between reverse engineering and what we did. Please note: we are not talking about the removal of copyright protection/software piracy here.

[snapdragin]

Hi Nautilus,

You did start this thread to post the link to your forum, which we've left up. Please do not continue on in this thread with the other issues being discussed over in the other thread as it will only confuse things having two threads going at once.

Paul did say in this post (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=361731&postcount=30) that he would address the issues when he returns.

Thank you for your understanding.

Regards,

snap

[Paul Wilders]

Since the orginal thread (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=64585&page=1) has been re-opened, this rather uncalled for thread has been closed. Those in need of addressing this topic, please hop over to the original thread.

regards,

paul