Let the Sparks Fly!

[still_longhorn]

-by Pollmaster, Jr Member
{QUOTE-> Nowdays, it's even worse. I've noticed the rise of a new breed of "senior members" or even major senior members who achieve their status by virtue of posting nonsense (oops social) posts in the ten forward only. These people love to congrat each other for achieving milestones of 5oo posts, 1000 posts etc.. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.

Sadly, based on the few responses they have made on the "real" forums, I would say they know less about computers than my 10 year old niece.

Personally, I only trust only a few names (in the expert group), and ocasionally the odd guest who seems knowledgable. Everybody else , senior member or whatever is judged solely on what they write. It's obvious many of them have no clue what they are talking about, even to one such as me. <-QUOTE}
-by Detox, Global Moderator
{QUOTE-> This thread has obviously wandered too far off-topic to be rehabilitated. "Judging members," in particular, has nothing to do with the original (or second) topics, and so I'll close this thread before any sparks fly. <-QUOTE}

I agree that Detox had to close the thread for the reasons given. BUT... Pollmaster's comments have to be discussed seriously and not simply thrown in the dustbin...

I've noticed, too,that some Sr Members disappear when discussions go beyond opinions, the usual social amenities and when facts are called for. They reappear at the 10Forward forum to gather brownie points... Not fair... not fair at all. Does a monosyllable comment on how the weather is count as much as a well thought out post on the intricacies of detecting the probes of Asmodeus v2.x? Spurs should be earned at the real forums with real credible posts and moderators should have the guts to remove brownie point posts IMO.

[FanJ]

Hi still_longhorn,

Please apologize me if I'm not directly giving an answer.
Please also be assured that there is no offence intended from my side !

May I please ask your understanding that we just got a little milestone by welcoming the 25.000-th member on the board.
And that we also just had the privilege to say a warm welcome back to Paul, the founder of this forum.

Regards, Jan.

[still_longhorn]

Hi Jan

[still_longhorn]

I get your point

[still_longhorn]

I'm sure you got mine, too!

[still_longhorn]

Right?

[still_longhorn]

Longhorn

[tedium]

Oh great. Another non-issue to get us through the weekend.

[dog]

Hi SL, ;)

The forum title ranks ... don't actually designate a "rank" / "grade" ... it's just a simple extra feature of VBulletin software. They amount to no more than, a certain # posts = a certain rank ... nothing more, nothing less ... there's no prize, no reward, and no certificate.

Wilders' is about Security, but it is also about community ... The "Ten-Forward" forum exist for that very reason ... it's about being social with the community, letting loose an having Fun!!!

If you don't like Ten-Forward, simply don't go there. I'm sorry you seem to feel that the forum's rankings are based on merit, and that so called fluff posts, some how interfere with that interpretation ... because they just are not. There are no grading systems in place here at all.

Lighten up SL ... No one has to learn with a straight jacket on ... enjoy the environment, the people, the learning & the fun ... Remember Wilders' is in my mind above all else is about community. Wilders' is comprised from top to bottom with quality people ... there's lots of potential for new friendships. Take advantage.

Regards,

Steve

Ps. "fluff" away if your rank is important to you ... But Have Fun!!!

[still_longhorn]

Of course there are legitimate milestones that need to be acknowledged and no one should be begrudged of that. WSF is a wonderful forum because of the smart and knowlegeable people who grace and moderate it. What I'm saying is: keep it that way! After all, the credibility of this forum will be determined by the quality of people who come this way and not the number of duhs... wows... and happy birthdays!

[gerardwil]

{QUOTE-> After all, the credibility of this forum will be determined by the quality of people who come this way and not the number of duhs... wows... and happy birthdays! <-QUOTE}
So it is nice we have a ten-forward section for the duhs....and the wows.... apart from the serious sections.

Gerard

[tedium]

I see. The guy who started the thread also thinks it's a non-issue.

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE-> Hi SL, ;)

The forum title ranks ... don't actually designate a "rank" / "grade" ... it's just a simple extra feature of VBulletin software. They amount to no more than, a certain # posts = a certain rank ... nothing more, nothing less ... there's no prize, no reward, and no certificate.
<-QUOTE}

Actually I loved the jokes you posted at 10Forward....

I love bashing (and so do a lot of members) MS for putting too many unnecessary features in Windows. If the quote above serves no function , shouldn't it be disabled like plug and play? Or at least modified or customized? ::)

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE-> So it is nice we have a ten-forward section for the duhs....and the wows.... apart from the serious sections.

Gerard <-QUOTE}

I am not questioning the necessity/desirability of 10Forward. Just the abuse it has been subjected to to gain brownie points....

[dog]

{QUOTE-> I am not questioning the necessity/desirability of 10Forward. Just the abuse it has been subjected to to gain brownie points.... <-QUOTE}

Just to clarify ... re:"Brownie Points" ... factually :P

Read this post by LWM --> http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=180934&postcount=2

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE-> Oh great. Another non-issue to get us through the weekend. <-QUOTE}
I guess I love controversy....
I found Wilders not because I googled for birthday greetings but because I was looking for solutions.

I think it is an issue because I come across less and less google finds that lead to WSF and when I do come across a link that points me to WSF, the discussions are superficial. What does this imply?

Should we change the name to Wilders Social Forums? It sounds fine to me...

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE-> I see. The guy who started the thread also thinks it's a non-issue. <-QUOTE}

Let the guy speak for himself! Or does the guy have to log in and stop hiding behind an incognito name?

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE-> Just to clarify ... re:"Brownie Points" ... factually :P

Read this post by LWM --> http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=180934&postcount=2 <-QUOTE}

Neither am I questioning the table of brownie points... Just the quality of posts!

See? I've managed to accumulate so many brownie points posting replies to what some consider as a non-issue.... I want to earn my points the proper way....

[tedium]

One more post and you're there!

[FanJ]

Please still_longhorn and please all,

I am really begging you ALL !!!
Without ANY offence intended !!!

Can't we all agree that both things are important: sharing info and help to each other, and also building a community?

Each of us can choose what kind of forum-sections and/or postings he/she wants to read and/or wants to reply on.

Of course this is a security-forum.
But there is nothing wrong with wishing each other an Happy Birthday !


Could we please, please settle this down (oops, forgive my poor English)?
I would really be very grateful and thankful to ALL of you if we could settle this and have a peaceful and friendly forum !!!

THANKS to all of you in advance for your understanding !!!!!

Warm regards, Jan.

[dog]

{QUOTE-> I guess I love controversy....
I found Wilders not because I googled for birthday greetings but because I was looking for solutions.

I think it is an issue because I come across less and less google finds that lead to WSF and when I do come across a link that points me to WSF, the discussions are superficial. What does this imply?

Should we change the name to Wilders Social Forums? It sounds fine to me... <-QUOTE}

Well, if you are so unhappy here ... go elsewhere ... Wilders' isn't a democracy ... its ultimate control lays in the hands of the gentlemen whose name is the foundation of this forum, and Mike his right-hand man.

If you want to control your environment ... buy some server space and host your own forum.

Ps. MY birthday was yesterday ... and I didn't get a birthday greeting from you ... >:( :'( ;D ... Oh, well.

The good news is ... you didn't include your date of birth, in your user CP ... so you won’t end up with a birthday thread ... But seeing as I wouldn't want to miss it.... HAPPY BIRTHDAY SL!!! ;D ;D ;D

~Please~ Lighten UP!!! Smile!!! Enjoy!!!

dog - *puppy*

This was my absolute last two cents on this matter ... enjoy your thread!

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE-> Hi SL, ;)
Ps. "fluff" away if your rank is important to you ... But Have Fun!!! <-QUOTE}

Of course it is important to me, but not more important than the quality of my posts. To think otherwise is abolute BS! What I write here will be read half-way around the world... and what I want them to read should be more related to "security" than "social graces..." ::)

[tedium]

CONGRATULATIONS STILL_LONGHORN SENIOR MEMBER!!!!!!!

[gerardwil]

Congrats with your 200 posts SL ;D

Saying that maybe a mod should move this to the ten-f section ;)

Gerard

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE-> Well, if you are so unhappy here ... go elsewhere ... Wilders' isn't a democracy ... its ultimate control lays in the hands of the gentlemen whose name is the foundation of this forum, and Mike his right-hand man.

If you want to control your environment ... buy some server space and host your own forum.
<-QUOTE}]

Absolutely uncalled for and shows your level of maturity. Would you like me to post the definition of a forum?

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE-> Congrats with your 200 posts SL ;D

Saying that maybe a mod should move this to the ten-f section ;)

Gerard <-QUOTE}

Thanks, but I really would have preferred reaching that milestone discussing a security issue.... ::)

[FanJ]

STOP this, guys !!!

[LowWaterMark]

As mentioned above, member title progression based upon post count is a standard feature in this type of online forum software, and I see no reason to disable it. Also as noted above, the title progressions have nothing to do with level of expertise, or the assignment of any staff positions here. (Meaning, posting a lot does not lead to being given either an experts title or a moderator position, and it never will.)

Staff positions and staff assigned titles are reflected in the vBulletin View Forum Leaders (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showgroups.php?) link near the bottom of the main index page. Member IDs with staff assigned titles / positions will also appear in a different color font then the black of standard member IDs.

We keep the social postings in ten-forward for the most part, though the Test Forum is an easy place to say hello to new people when they post a test message, so some social activity occurs in there though we clean that section out periodically.

I don't see ten-forward and the social and/or entertainment based posts made there as a negative. In fact, ten-forward has always been one of the most active forums here since the forum first started in this form on YaBB in Feb 2002. Some people like those kinds of threads, some don't. People have a choice to participate or not there, so I don't see an issue. (We even added a tweak to allow you to not display ten-forward posts in the "last 10 posts" on the forum, so that those who don't care about that type of posting don't have to even see them there.)

As to Google and Wilders searches... We actually do very well with Google indexing. You can easily test it by looking through the more topical security threads and doing searches on Google. If we have a thread on it, you are very likely to see us on the first page or two.

Just randomly testing using 'other anti-trojan software' topics... Doing a Google search on: Prevx Process Hijacking (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Prevx+Process+Hijacking) yields a result with us on the first page along with CastleCops, DSLR, Gladiator and a few others. I'm satisfied with our placement in search engines and I don't see us getting ranked lower because there are a lot of social posts in ten-forward or because several people have passed over 1000 or 2000 posts here.

{QUOTE-> Thanks, but I really would have preferred reaching that milestone discussing a security issue.... ::) <-QUOTE}And you could have, but you chose to post that. Others want to participate in the high volume social threads - so what? That's their choice, too.

I just don't see a serious problem here.

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE-> STOP this, guys !!! <-QUOTE}

Sorry FanJ,

I believe this forum was forged out of controversy... and will continue to be such for as long as there are people willing to stick their necks out for issues they believe in. The worse happens when members and guests keep their keyboards silent after being intimidated others who cannot express their deepest sentiments except to say "**** off! Why? Because I said so!"

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE->
And you could have, but you chose to post that. Others want to participate in the high volume social threads - so what? That's their choice, too.

I just don't see a serious problem here. <-QUOTE}

Thanks LWM.

I didn't know I was approaching a milestone and frankly, I didn't care, much less choose it. I knew I was stirring a hornets nest when I opened the thread but that is partly what forums are for...

Your post calmly puts everything in proper perspective. I appreciate it but I really don't see how WSF can maintain its present stature after the old guards are gone.

Training of the replacements start now. As you have witnessed, the younger crop lacks the eloquence, patience and maturity required for future success. Of course this can be denied and rationalized away.... But as the keepers of the forum, IMO it is best you give this a lot of thought. I am not asking you to make future decisions but rather to consider the futurity of your present decision....

[NICK ADSL UK]

Hi still_longhorn
I don't normally come in to this section as i am rather busy. But having done so i find your manner very demeaning to say the least. For your information we have in this forum many world class contributers of the highest order and i think in future when you post in this forum to remember that and show some respect. As i have always maintained you never know who reads your posts and as i am a member of the old guard you should think twice about it as i find your manner offencive as i am sure many other's here do. My advice to you is to consider other members when posting and to show respect for the administration here

Regards

[LowWaterMark]

{QUOTE-> But as the keepers of the forum, IMO it is best you give this a lot of thought. I am not asking you to make future decisions but rather to consider the futurity of your present decision.... <-QUOTE}Paul and I discuss the posting trends and overall direction of the forum fairly frequently, and we are mindful of everything mentioned here, and a whole lot of other things not mentioned here. We have our plans and goals for the forum, and we are satisfied with where we are presently, and also that we'll get where we want to go.

[wildman]

>:( Man oh man the wildman could not stay out of this.

(1) If one does not know there are many levels of expertise, they are in my opinion at the wrong place and deserve what they get. I enjoy this diversity and defend the right for all to state either their facts or opinions. I may not always agree and will even say so, and some times in very blunt terms, but they still have the right to state it.

(2) Not every one is an uptight expletive deleted and enjoys a little levity now and again. If we want serious we are smart enough to know where to get it.

(3) It is nice to know that there are still some civil individuals in this world who will take the time to wish a stranger happy birthday or congratulate them on an otherwise mundane accomplishment. Making people feel good is O.K. in my book.

(4) I could give a rats backside as to who has what title, I only care that those who have some authority do not abuse it.

I became a member of this forum under controversy, and have been knowen to speak my mind. I do not plan to stop now.

Thanks
wildman
::) >:(

[Primrose]

"You don't understand! I could have had class. I could've been a contender! I could've been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am!" ;D ::) :lurking:

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE->

As to Google and Wilders searches... We actually do very well with Google indexing. You can easily test it by looking through the more topical security threads and doing searches on Google. If we have a thread on it, you are very likely to see us on the first page or two.

Just randomly testing using 'other anti-trojan software' topics... Doing a Google search on: Prevx Process Hijacking (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Prevx+Process+Hijacking) yields a result with us on the first page along with CastleCops, DSLR, Gladiator and a few others. I'm satisfied with our placement in search engines and I don't see us getting ranked lower because there are a lot of social posts in ten-forward or because several people have passed over 1000 or 2000 posts here.
<-QUOTE}

True enough, but ever since you stopped doing HJT logs and and the members simply referred guests to adware removal links, there have been fewer hits as far as the newer sleazeware are concerned. I believe the key operative is "If we have a thread on it, you are very likely to see us on the first page or two." There is hardly any mention of sleazeware keywords anymore in discussions in the forum so more recent searches do not include WSF. I don't know if this is part of the grand plan but it definitely has removed WSF from the forefront of the campaign against sleazeware. If this is the intent then all I can say is Amen!

Another question. Why do the members find honest controversy distasteful?
They actually won't last a minute in the bull sessions we hold quite regularly to generate new ideas. Is disagreement a sign of disrespect? Respect is earned.

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE-> Hi still_longhorn
I don't normally come in to this section as i am rather busy. But having done so i find your manner very demeaning to say the least. For your information we have in this forum many world class contributers of the highest order and i think in future when you post in this forum to remember that and show some respect. As i have always maintained you never know who reads your posts and as i am a member of the old guard you should think twice about it as i find your manner offencive as i am sure many other's here do. My advice to you is to consider other members when posting and to show respect for the administration here

Regards <-QUOTE}

I read all your posts. Its no wonder you feel alluded to. I had something to say and I said it... I am abrasive. That is my only weakness. You are courteous. That is your only strength. Respect is earned. Never demanded! From my posts you can tell who the people I respect are.... They earned it in a single well thought post. Now, go earn yours.

[LowWaterMark]

{QUOTE-> There is hardly any mention of sleazeware keywords anymore in discussions in the forum so more recent searches do not include WSF. I don't know if this is part of the grand plan but it definitely has removed WSF from the forefront of the campaign against sleazeware. If this is the intent then all I can say is Amen! <-QUOTE}We were completely aware of the volume driven by the contents of HijackThis Logs, which at its peak was responsible for half our hits here. But, you can't have those logs being posted if you don't have the staff to analyze and respond to them. We didn't, so in fairness to those who needed that help, we stopped and the staff we did have working here were then able to concentrate more fully on the other forums they also worked at without dividing their efforts. If you check the names of our Spyware Mods and Fighters, you'll find most of them working at other security forums on the A-SAP.org forum list. We're glad our friends at CastleCops, SpywareInfo, etc. are able to provide the services at their forums, and we're happy to send referrals their way. If that increases their membership levels to several times our's, that's fine, too.

So, when we stopped that service we knew the volume would go away with it. Likewise our member join rate dropped to less than half of what it was when people were joining here solely to post a log. We knew that would slow down when we closed that function, and we're fine with that. We don't need to be the biggest forum, or have the most members or page hits. But, there are still a great many valuable and interesting threads being posted here across the various product support, security and privacy sections.

[LowWaterMark]

In any case, there are far too many negative personal comments being made in this thread. Whether you believe people should be able to participate in heated exchanges equivolent to "bull sessions" and such, enough is enough. I'll be closing this thread shortly. If you have any additional on-topic, not personally directed, comments to make then make them and then we'll call it a day...

The concern regarding posting trends, post volumes, member titles and thread subject matter was raised, discussed and I responded with the forum managements view on these points. I think this is enough.

[wildman]

;D LOWWATERMARK: Please let this go for a while longer. You give him enough rope, he'll wind up with it around his neck, he has already put his foot in his mouth. There are many intelligent individuals here at Wilders Forums who I am sure would love to be at one of his so called bull sessions, I know I sure would.

Thanks
wildman
:lurking:

[GlobalForce]

Greeting's,

I've got to say the idea of quality posts is all fine and dandy, and personally I feel along these lines because my level of computer experience has just begun. At the same time I'm not going to pass on the chance to exercise some social grace and congeniality. People looking for help I'm sure appreciate a few kind words even if it comes from a total novice. As for myself, I don't address anyone and pretend to be an expert, at the very least I let them know my skill level. If I can locate a link with pertinant information, I've done the best I know how for the time being. If learning can't be fun.......

Should people new to the internet show up here being fully capable of offering a step-by-step explanation of how to resolve someones problem? A few words of encouragement goes a long way, even if to take the time to search for a link. There are plenty of capables that step up to cover someone they know not to be all that tech savvy.....

Ten Forward's a fun happening place with good people, as I'm sure everyone is aware. I like to post there, the people that have helped me are worth giving a few positive notes to. Besides, like someone posted they know who's who when it comes to taking advice. Second opinions and different angles are usually a safe bet. Why, I've even learned a couple of things from total novices here.

In conclusion, it's only a number. I agree members or guests should use discretion when addressing a poster, it's only fair. I sure as heck wouldn't appreciate bad information, and almost always double-check myself. The art of locating information is probably one of the most valuble tools you can master. I can understand both sides, but it's no skin off my back either way. It's Paul's forum. If he decides to run it this way, that's perfectly OK with me. For those that attend here already with computer skills, thats great. If its in them to lend a helping hand, a karma cookie. The way I see it, to post a simple thankyou is not a brownie post. It's common courtesy, and the outright least we can do as humans.

GF

[ronjor]

Let's not forget the people that come here to learn and MOSTLY socialize.
I've met many people from all over the world here that I can call a friend.
Where else can you do that?
I am sure my cyberfriends would be just as good a friend if I met them face to face.

[still_longhorn]

{QUOTE->
The concern regarding posting trends, post volumes, member titles and thread subject matter was raised, discussed and I responded with the forum managements view on these points. I think this is enough. <-QUOTE}

Had initial reactions to what I felt was a valid issue been as calmly in perspective as yours, then a lot of these animosities could have been avoided. I apologise fot that. Nevertheless, it takes two to tango and I can be quite a dancer,too.

Call it a day LWM. And thanks....

[LowWaterMark]

Closed.