Guest's Sign On's??

[hayc59]

Should Wilders Allow It? or Not?

[Bubba]

Would I be assuming wrongly if I said this poll is in reference to one of our Guest posters that seems to troll around our Forums ?

Troll poster thread---> http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?p=264216#post264216

Unfortunately....individuals like this are found on many Forums and puts a bad taste in ones mouth for all other Guests posters.

[hayc59]

Bubba, you would be correct!!
There is no problem signing up and then doing your thing.
I am a Mod on several forums and this 'guest' stuff is not allowed
causes to much mayhem and way to much clean up

[Stoneheart]

I am the "troll" Bubba is talking about.

The reason why I "trolled" is because that he infairly closed and edited my topic so that it looks like if I were a jerk and he is an honest person. I feel the need to prevent this from happening.

In particular, Bubba deleted the most important part of my second posting the remainders of which can be found here: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=49060

[dog]

Hi All, ;)

It's definitely a tough question. Although this morning incidents were unfortunate, and crossed the line; they still remain fairly uncommon @ Wilders' ... from time to time their are "guest" posters who post spam, or post warez links, but the incident that sparked this discussion is very very uncommon ... ~it's actually nice to see Members defend Our Community~ and I believe it more than sends the message that, that type of activity is unwelcome here. There are other measures to insure that an offending party does not continue to disrupt the forum, ie. blocking the offending IP address, and while this measure is extreme, it is less extreme than forcing visitors to register to post. With Wilders' being dedicated to the most part toward security and privacy, it would seem contradictory to force participants to register. Allowing someone to become comfortable with this community and post as a guest, fosters that philosophy/ideologoy. I hope Wilders' continues to be as it is, and that the actions of one sad individual do not prompt a sweeping change like this.

Steve aka dog - *puppy*

[hayc59]

-{ Quote: "The Update Alerts section is used to inform interested readers of the availability of a software update to any publicly available security product. This may include full application releases (both major and minor), as well as updates to the signatures for various types of security scanning products." }-Stoney, this is the key that will set you free ^ ^ ^

[hayc59]

*puppy*
@Dog...........point well taken
and you are right.
Until something like this happens and as i said before is exactly
why is not allowed on other forums.(where i frequent) Wilders is an exception to the rule in this case.

[Stoneheart]

I think there are different kinds of guest:

For example, there are completely "destructive guest" who insult people or spam the entire forum. For example, they may tell people how to create a crack for Acronis, Look and Stop, TDS etc. Such insults or spam will be removed of course. And I do not think that such guests will constantly repeat posting such insults/spam (under a different IP address) unless they really hate someone (e.g. the software developer or a specific person). This is because spamming the forum means work for the guest AND the moderators.

Moreover, there are guest who behave badly due to a specific in reason. In such case there is a good chance to de-escalate things. (Usually, if two or more parties argue noone is completely innocent.)

[GlobalForce]

To quote dog,-{ Quote: "With Wilders' being dedicated to the most part toward security and privacy, it would seem contradictory to force participants to register. Allowing someone to become comfortable with this community and post as a guest, fosters that philosophy/ideologoy." }- Fully agreed and backed!

You don't seem like a bad guy SH, having caught some of that thread this morning, I can see how both sides drew their conclusions. It's unfortunate that yes, how the written word was taken caused some problems.

I've read a couple of different forums where just a lot of nonsense is being tolerated, to the point it seems welcomed by
the mods. Personally I find Wilders to be sort of "self-monitoring", lots of intelligent guests as well as members,
with a good sense of common decency.

In addition, because this is all very emotional and heated, people on the whole don't think to clearly.
I'm sure this can approach a peaceful resolve.


GF

[LowWaterMark]

This kind of Poll actually belongs in the Poll forum section. ;)

Moving it there now.

[Blackspear]

Although I had a tendency to say yes to only those registering should be able to post, I now think it is a little more than some passing through will want to do, the innocents out there that just want some help... and help "urgently" as their world falls around them...

So, I would say, no, lets keep the place as open as possible, and just keep the eyes peeled for the trolls of this world, they are few, and fairly well far apart…

Cheers ;D

[GlobalForce]

Blackspear, or do you mean "Yes", guest's may post?

GF ;D

[LowWaterMark]

I'm withholding voting on this myself. ;)

But, I thought I'd give you some stats and other background information.

First, guest based postings account for 7% of the posts on the forum. (And that percentage does not include the posts in such threads as "two-word story" and "answer a question with a question", since those type of threads would slant the numbers too much.)

Second, many people were concerned when we closed the HijackThis section to guest postings, saying that people would be turned away and wouldn't be able to get help if we did that. What actually happened is we ended up with 3x as many member joins (daily rate) as we had been getting just prior to that, and up until we recently closed that section. It turned out that if people wanted help, they would join a forum if they had to in order to get it.

The idea that this forum would die off if it was closed to guest posts does not hold up based upon the trends above, or how other forums work. Many forums do not allow guest posts at all. Net-Integration doesn't allow any. CastleCops (ComputerCops) has just three dedicated subforums that guests can post in, all the rest require member registration. And they've been getting member enrollments at a huge rate, a few time our rate.

[TheSnowGuy]

Well, well, well, the desire for dictatorship appears to be flourishing very well..........after over a decade of being an open forum that welcomed all who came suddenly the "lock-it-up crowd is screaming for a bolt on the door.............how pitifully cowardly!!!
If the heat gets to hot in the kitchen.....get the hell out! An leave it to those who can handle their job.......
Clean up your own house before you try to clean up another house.....because from where I sit I only see a few power hungry wannbes that want to control this forum and dictate the terms of use.......control freaks........
well you can lock it real tight....put the big bolts on the door......but that wont gain you respect.....you earn respect.......an the instigators of this lock-it-down movement will never be respected
flame me...go ahead.....show how stupid you really can be....thats what this post is doing away.......so go far it. This has been a really go laugh.


TheSnowGuy/ The Snowman

An Yes.....a registered member

[Stoneheart]

In principle, I feel similar to TheSnowGuy since I also hate control/rules/guidelines which can easily result in an abuse of power.

However, I have learned from the previous topic that the words used by TheSnowGuy are probably way too strong.

Btw.: I am also a registered member ;-)

[TheSnowGuy]

Stoneheart Said:

*However, I have learned from the previous topic that the words used by TheSnowGuy are probably way too strong. ***


************************


anyone offend will be offended by the truth....not by the words.



TheSnowGuy/ The Snowman



I wont continue posting.......no need to give value to this valueless subject. Whatever happens is of no concern to me at this point.

[TheSnowGuy]

Better Yet.......feel free to delete any post made by me on this topic in this particular thread........honestly its meanless to me.......an I regret having wasted my time posting.......so go ahead..delete....

[lynchknot]

You guys say you are registered then why hide behind guest account?

-{ Quote: "how pitifully cowardly!!!" }-

[iceni60]

ive posted acouple of times at sub's place as a guest, and i wouldnt have done so if id have had to of registered. because of that ill be more likely to join.

sometimes, ive tried to join a forum, but been too dim to work out how to, or which security programs need to give access to the site :o :D so for some newbies, whom need help, it is to their advantage to be allowed to post as a guest

the only unregistered posters i can think of, that post a fair bit are TheSnowGuy/ The Snowman, Nautilus and that nod guy.

The Snowman, sometimes^^^, Nautilus always, are more aggressive then the signed in lot, but wilders is a very, very placid forum so their words may seem more hostle then they really are, so theres no problem there, for me.

that just leaves the odd nutter, and you're always going to get that, no matter what, guest or not.

so i see no reason not to let guests post
:lurking:

[hayc59]

-{ Quote: "Well, well, well, the desire for dictatorship appears to be flourishing very well..........after over a decade of being an open forum that welcomed all who came suddenly the "lock-it-up crowd is screaming for a bolt on the door.............how pitifully cowardly!!!
If the heat gets to hot in the kitchen.....get the hell out! An leave it to those who can handle their job.......
Clean up your own house before you try to clean up another house.....because from where I sit I only see a few power hungry wannbes that want to control this forum and dictate the terms of use.......control freaks........
well you can lock it real tight....put the big bolts on the door......but that wont gain you respect.....you earn respect.......an the instigators of this lock-it-down movement will never be respected
flame me...go ahead.....show how stupid you really can be....thats what this post is doing away.......so go far it. This has been a really go laugh.


TheSnowGuy/ The Snowman

An Yes.....a registered member" }-Snow man whats up?? hope all is well for you.
Now to the business.
This was not about guest sign on's or deleting post!!
It actually was just a simple request by a fine update poster
to 'please' follow the rules and post accordingly. that all nothing else!!
then it was turned into a pissin match because that poster made threats and could not handle the truth.
He now has an agenda just to troll and spam and stir the pot
Its really to bad because he is probably very nice person when you get to know him.................

[FanJ]

Hi all,

Just a few words...
Words in which I will try to express my feelings.

May we ALL respect each other.
May we all try to understand that we all have different backgrounds, different languages, different cultures, etc etc.
Sometimes we do not understand each other very well. LowWaterMark has posted an absolutely great sticky thread about it in TenForward long ago.
I am the first one to admit that I too have made sometimes unfriendly postings in which I offended others. I want you all to be assured that I very much regret having done that.

May I please ask everyone to refrain from words like dictatorship with respect to this board; please, please, please!!!!!
Dictatorship is absolutely an extremely nasty thing. Far and far too much people have suffered from it in the past, and are still suffering from it; millions of people have died :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

We all can have different opinions, but please let's talk about it in a civilised way without hurting others; please, please, please!!!!!

Please also understand that an Internet-forum simply needs some rules.
And that it is almost impossible to catch every circumstance on such a forum in such forum-rules; internet-forums are not something like mathematics (me being an ex-mathematician myself).

I want you to know that this posting of mine was NOT meant to hurt anyone !!!!!


PEACE


Best Regards, Jan.

[TheSnowGuy]

HAYC 59

Thank you for setting me straight on this....coming from you I know its the truth.......an I'll refrain from further comments. You have known me a very long time HAYC.....always I have respected this forum and its members......wishing you well old friend.




************************************


FANJ

Jan your request will be respected. PEACE

[hayc59]

-{ Quote: "HAYC 59

Thank you for setting me straight on this....coming from you I know its the truth.......an I'll refrain from further comments. You have known me a very long time HAYC.....always I have respected this forum and its members......wishing you well old friend.

************************************
FANJ
Jan your request will be respected. PEACE" }-Back at you, you are also a great friend and thank you very much
have agreat night

[LowWaterMark]

I want to thank you all for your understanding and for moderating yourselves when things get difficult. I know very well how easy it is to get upset about some topics, because frankly I'm not immune to it myself. Many a time I’d like to make a really strong reply, but I really can’t do that here. Besides, I’ve found that it only ever leads to further escalation, and that’s not helpful for any of us.

This poll is nothing more than a question, and it’s asking people’s opinions on that question. The same openness being mentioned in several of your replies in this and the other threads certainly applies with allowing people to ask and debate this question, doesn't it?

Please continue to discuss the merits of allowing guest posting versus not doing so. It is a valid topic for discussion, regardless of which side you happen to be open.

And let's just try not to take anything posted too personally.

[0_0]

I'm also a registered member but don't really feel like logging in everytime i come here, and don't like keeping any cookies, so i just post anonymously under a few different fun names.

If the mods do decide to make this site member only postings i will probably just start logging in. For me it's not really that i want to hide myself from others, because i don't post comments with the idea of starting trouble anyway, but that i'm probably often just too lazy to log in. :P

I feel anyone should be allowed to post anonymously because you will often get people posting things that they normally wouldn't post. Now this may be good and it may not, but i don't think there are really too many troublemakers around here anyway. I have seen far far worse comments on other sites than i have ever seen at this site. If things ever get too out of hand i'm sure the mods will take appropriate action to correct the situation.

I have read some extremely helpful post by anons and feel many helpful posts may not ever have been posted here if it wasn't for their anon status. So i vote to allow anonymous posts. ;D

[nod32_9]

Would I continue to post if I had to login? NOPE! Would never work for a company that force me to wear a uniform. Get the point?

[steverio]

So.... now that we have things cleared up....

I heard that over on eBay at the "Wilder's Improv" there is a "Sense of Humor" up for grabs still! Coming up next for bids is "A thing called laughter..." could be very useful on some occasions? Someone soon probably will pick these items up very cheap.

So....whose hairy chest are we going to laugh at? ;D

[optigrab]

Until a troll problem becomes so common as to be a deterrent to participation for the rest of us, I'll say "yes".

I've seen the mods accused of abuse of their privledges a number of times, and IMO most of those accusations fall flat. I've seen many, many more instances where because of poor comprehension, poor communication skills, and a disregard for rules someone eventually feels persecuted.

I guess I'm trying to make a case for more thoughtful, rational and reasoned communication.

BTW the poll question is not very straight-forward. Unless one bothers to read the first post, it is really unclear as to what YES / NO means.

[GlobalForce]

Nice post! I'm with you all the way.-{ Quote: "BTW the poll question is not very straight-forward. Unless one bothers to read the first post, it is really unclear as to what YES / NO means.
" }-MO, I feel the post question could well have been phrased more clearly. But, it was delivered in the heat of the moment...

GF

[iceni60]

-{ Quote: "BTW the poll question is not very straight-forward. Unless one bothers to read the first post, it is really unclear as to what YES / NO means." }-
i havent voted, i thought it was me being abit sssssllllllllooooooowwwww. ;D

and another thing that you lot might not realise about us newbies, i made this point weakly earlier; but, if you have to register at a forum you need to know how to use email. it took me a fair few goes to get a hotmail account. and, get a newbie on your computer and ask them to setup an email client, see what happens :o

(i was sawing up my thunderbird's profile, with Tassie's file-splitter program to put on a floppy for my reinstall, mainly because it's such a hassle to setup an email client.)

the first forum i posted at was mozilla, at the time i didnt have email :D

[mercurie]

-{ Quote: "ive posted acouple of times at sub's place as a guest, and i wouldnt have done so if id have had to of registered. because of that ill be more likely to join.

sometimes, ive tried to join a forum, but been too dim to work out how to, or which security programs need to give access to the site :o :D so for some newbies, whom need help, it is to their advantage to be allowed to post as a guest

the only unregistered posters i can think of, that post a fair bit are TheSnowGuy/ The Snowman, Nautilus and that nod guy.

The Snowman, sometimes^^^, Nautilus always, are more aggressive then the signed in lot, but wilders is a very, very placid forum so their words may seem more hostle then they really are, so theres no problem there, for me.

that just leaves the odd nutter, and you're always going to get that, no matter what, guest or not.

so i see no reason not to let guests post
:lurking:" }-
I have not voted, I can not decide? I for the life of me can not get CastleCops to work for me shows I am registered but nothing works. I have a PM sent. I figure I've "been to dim to work out how to," too. So there are times it would be nice to post as guest. On the other hand I believe operators have a obligation to know who is participating on their forums in some detail through registration, so that tips the scales back the otherway. It looks like unregistered regulars here are only a few. As long as they follow my signature rule that I live by, no problem here. :-\

[GlobalForce]

I believe I can add to that, Mercurie.


" With Malice Towards None, And Charity For All "
Abraham Lincoln

GF

[mercurie]

Sure enough Global Force...sure enough. Lincoln was mighty good with words. See you around the forum friend! Take care. ;D

[lynchknot]

-{ Quote: " Would never work for a company that force me to wear a uniform. Get the point?" }- I get the point. You are better than everyone else a deserve special consideration - no, make that demands. :D - of course, if you were out of work and you and your children were starving - maybe you will humble yourself to accept a lowly position. hehe - sorry just messing.....

[gerardwil]

Most of the time I log in under my name, only when I am in a hurry I have a quick look without logging in.
I am pretty neutral so far if people logging in or are here as a guest. I visit one other site where most people are anonymus, there is a lot of bashing and off-topic threads. It would be an advantage for that site to allow only registered people. However here at Wilders that is most of the time not the case, everything is running smoothly with only every now and then an exception.

Gerard

[Honyak]

While there are those that abuse/misuse the guest sign in, there are those that need help and maybe not sure if they want to register until they have had a chance to see the valuable assistance and vast knowledge available here.
I for one noticed this immediately when I first came upon this forum. The clowns that want to abuse are going to find a way no matter what and I liked the option to post as a guest or register, I chose to register.

[nod32_9]

Actually, I don't kiss ass for food. Never had to and never will. That's how I was raised.

Probably too creative to wear a uniform...no offense to members of the military, folks at UPS, police department, fire department, and those in wall street.

[lynchknot]

hehe - just as I thought. Someday you'll grow out of your false pride - maybe (relax, it's just a characteristic of youth). It comes with maturity. I don't expect you to understand yet. Good luck. ;)

[hayc59]

nod32_9, just out of curiosity what do you do for a living??

[Meltdown]

I’d say keep the forums open to guests. Most guests are well-behaved, it’d be a shame to change the policy just because once in a while someone comes along who’s aggressive and disruptive. I don’t think rules are needed, the friendly, helpful and polite line that most members take here sets an example, and that’s enough. And everyone seems to have overlooked the fact that some members, thankfully only a few, are persistently obnoxious.

I thought the whole Stoneheart business that started this debate was badly handled. He raised a valid point, unfortunately in a highly offensive manner. The replies to his post damped down the aggression, putting forward reasoned arguments against his proposal. Cutting the thread off blew the whole issue out of proportion.

One more thing: I don’t like the flame war that’s building up here. Some find fulfilment working within an institutional framework, some don’t. Take your choice, but don’t look down on people who choose the other path. That goes for both sides.

[nod32_9]

Self-employed. Per the previous post, I don't do well in a structured environment. Built everything from scratch. Yup, darn proud and grateful for what I have today. Greatness is about doing the right thing when no one else is looking. Make a mistake. Learn from it. And move on.

[Blackspear]

-{ Quote: "...Greatness is about doing the right thing when no one else is looking. Make a mistake. Learn from it. And move on." }-
Nicely said, it is part of my makeup as well, if you can learn from a mistake, you have a better chance of not repeating it ;)

And besides which you never know who is watching, it’s just good to do the right thing, makes for better sleep at night, well not if you hang around Wilders for long… ;) ;D

Cheers ;D

[Rita]

-{ Quote: "Actually, I don't kiss ass for food. Never had to and never will. That's how I was raised.

Probably too creative to wear a uniform...no offense to members of the military, folks at UPS, police department, fire department, and those in wall street." }-
Hi nod32
My hope for you is that you never have to kiss a** for food.I'm sure you have worked very hard for what you have and you sure have a right to be darn proud as you said,but unseen cirumstances befall us all and we never know what we'll have to do in this life.i mean no disrespect to you at all in this post-just a comment
Rita

[lynchknot]

-{ Quote: "but unseen cirumstances befall us all and we never know what we'll have to do in this life.
Rita" }- now that's a wise and mature statement. You are obviously beyond your years or an older, wiser person. If circumstances dictated and my children were starving (or I), I would "kiss ass" for food because they are worth more that my so called pride. True pride is in doing the best job you can, no matter what it is or for whom - uniform or not. -{ Quote: "Some find fulfilment working within an institutional framework, some don’t" }-The job description does not make the man, it's how well he does it and how sincere he is about it - no matter what it is.



.

[nod32_9]

The lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part. Life is about making choices. Those who don't save for the future will face hard times down the road. That's life 101.

[Meltdown]

^^Nice one, nod32_9, made me laugh. But isn't

-{ Quote: "Make a mistake. Learn from it. And move on." }-

another empty slogan? Me, I make mistakes, pretend they didn't happen, stagnate.

[beetlejuice]

The first thing I think you all need to think about is whose name is on the forum. I think Paul has the right to run it anyway he pleases. So if anyone has a problem with the way things work around here, then go start your own forum then you can run it anyway you like. Nuff said. ;D

[Marja]

I thought I knew what I was going to write, then I saw something about saving for the future and all will go right or close to it?

That's exactly what all those people who invested their savings in Enron, Tyco, and on & on thought! They tried to control their future and now they have lost, some of them everything, with no time to catch up. So, Ritaann is right, you never, never know what might befall you.

A good thing to remember is "What goes around, comes around" usually when you least expect it.

Still, I wandered around Wilders' quite a while, before signing up. I had some really bad experiences not knowing where to go, finding out they could "follow you home", changing my isp, my phone #, it made me very cautious, so I might not have found my "home" if I couldn't just roam around as a guest! Like Iceni, I was afraid of doing something really dumb, then I did alot of dumb things and now I ain't afraid. :)

I don't think things have gotten so bad we have to lock the doors, that is so far from what I think of Wilders', not sure I would or could understand it.


I still post dumb questions, post in the wrong place, don't get deleted much, but, won't say it can't ever happen, I appreciate the way this forum is run for the most part, some forums are more like Wild West Shootouts. You waste alot of time trying to get help give help or have fun, while a few people are brawling in the posters aisle!

The way things are going, everyone is going to treasure a place they can talk, laugh and learn without someone asking your "affiliation".

I prefer to think Wilders' has enough magic of its own to weather way more than this!!

My name is Marja8) and I approved this post.
Hope you do too. :)

[Marja]

Checky's statement makes a good sig, y'think? :)

[nadirah]

I don't quite like guests, i feel that too many of them would spoil the forum.

[GlobalForce]

By Marja : -{ Quote: ""I prefer to think Wilders' has enough magic of its own to weather way more than this!!"

"My name is Marja and I approved this post.
Hope you do too."" }- You Go Girl !!! ;)

GF

[nod32_9]

Tyco (TYC) is up 3x over the last 3 years. Enron and WorldCom are still around but their stocks are worthless. People got greedy in the late 90s and bought anything that goes up. The faster the rise, the greater the interest. Course when the party ends, there were many bagholders!!!

Those who invested in the broad market such as the SP500 or Wilshire 5000 fared much better. Diversification is the key to success in this game. Buy more when the market is down. Reduce your equity exposure when there is excessive interest in the stock market. Pure common sense 101.

Ask yourself why those unfortunate people put all their savings in Enron? Do they know about the possibility of bankruptcy? Is it because they believed that the stock couldn't go down, and will make them a lot of $ in the near term? Fidelity Investment has an 800 number, and their staffs will be glad to answer all your investment questions for FREE. Knowledge is power. It's your $ to lose.

We hear these selective sad stories in the evening news because they make interesting headlines.

Those who don't live below their means will always have financial issues because they don't have the reserve to weather the unexpected.

[TheSnowGuy]

NOD 32

Rarely have I said to anyone that I pity them.....however, you are in need of my pity.............consider counseling NOD.....your failure in life is showing.....and your illusions are controling you
Did you think that wilders members are all losers....there is a good chance many here could buy you like a box of stale popcorn.........look at yourself NOD...you re-act like a puppet to the remarks of some posters.....you are extremely weak....able to be perdicted.....an thus controled.......many of the "drops of wisdom" you posted were made by other individuals.....not your wisdom at all......personally I chose to ignor you because to me you have no value.......I see a person in misery...in need of pity.
The world and wilders have survived without you a very long time...an will continue to survive.....an although you obviously consider the good people here in desperate need of you......truely thats not the case.
Nod.....I'll continue to ignor you for the reasons afore stated......be sure to post a flame or two directed at me....thats your perdictable behavior.
\

[TheSnowGuy]

NOD32


My apology. Its not my nature to offend or take advantage of weaker persons. Please continue. There will be no further comments by me.

[TheSnowGuy]

COMMENT


Because I feel so bad about making that post....I decided to leave the forum for awhile......self suspend myself.......

[JimIT]

Keep guest postings. They're funny.

;)

[lynchknot]

Like I said nod32_9 your attitude is only a characteristic of your youth (it is painfully obvious). Someday, God willing, you will grow out of your "pride" and become willing to be humble and know what it truly is to be man. Only then will you have passed the test of "life 101"

[Tek_9]

Wilders - where the intellectual firebrands meet the good ol' boys.

[nod32_9]

Underachievers will continue to blame their problems on fate, society, or other people. If you cannot obtain basic food and shelter in the greatest country in the world, then it's time to go on welfare.

[Tek_9]

-{ Quote: "If you cannot obtain basic food and shelter... then it's time to go on welfare." }-

Tautology.

[lynchknot]

Yet another fine example of youth, surpassed by ignorance. :D yes, I see the redundancy. TheSnowGuy was wise to check out. It's pointless to try to instill value in those who are not yet ready or capable of recognizing.

[Detox]

OK gents that's about enough. Answering the poll and supplying the reasoning behind your answers is sufficient without the personal conflicts.

[beetlejuice]

-{ Quote: "OK gents that's about enough. Answering the poll and supplying the reasoning behind your answers is sufficient without the personal conflicts." }-

Hey Detox. You know we could make a sub-forum just for arguing and flaming. Then the rest of us, who aren't interested, wouldn't have to find this stuff scattered all over the forum. What do you think? ???

[Detox]

nah - it's not worth the effort or resources. Those who want to fight and name-call can exchance email addresses or phone numbers.

[gerardwil]

hmmmm.................webcams?

[beetlejuice]

How about a smiley with a flamethrower? Or maybe something like this.

[Meltdown]

Gotcha.

[lynchknot]

*puppy* opps sorry I did not feel like I was fighting, just saying - :D

[new girl]

-{ Quote: "The first thing I think you all need to think about is whose name is on the forum. I think Paul has the right to run it anyway he pleases. So if anyone has a problem with the way things work around here, then go start your own forum then you can run it anyway you like. Nuff said. ;D" }-


Being a very new member here, and a real newbie, I probably don't have any business commenting on this thread, however....having read all of the posts I would have to say, this quote is the only one that really has any value. Well said, beetlejuice!

[GlobalForce]

Hi Sweetie,

It is your business and you have every right to post your views, guest or member. Objective opinions are always welcomed.

GF

[Yes]

Given the way some of the registered members are acting in this thread, the theory that guests tend to misbehaviour more is in serious trouble I think.

[beetlejuice]

-{ Quote: "Being a very new member here, and a real newbie, I probably don't have any business commenting on this thread, however....having read all of the posts I would have to say, this quote is the only one that really has any value. Well said, beetlejuice!" }-

Thank You Sweetie. ;D

[MikeBCda]

Kudos from me too, bj. :) I'm active with a number of other groups, and a mod at one of my medical-support ones, and every so often some idiot will raise the "free speech" issue. I have to patiently remind them that just about every one of the millions (billions?) of websites is owned and operated by someone, and that anyone visiting that site is literally visiting, in the same way that you'd visit someone else's home.

You sure wouldn't claim a right to "free speech" in someone else's house, would you? Terms of Service may or may not be clearly spelled out, but in the majority of cases when you register somewhere you explicitly consent to abide by the "house rules". And such agreement/consent is generally implicit anyway even if you don't have to register -- the site's owner-operator is, after all, the "boss" and has the final word on what's acceptable.

[Marja]

Aaaah! Still, it's so sweet to remember back when I was young, how I knew


the answer to everything there was to know - and the memory to quote


everyone who actually DID!!!



Thanks for the memories!!

Marja8)

I think I found a new sig!!:) Let's have a sig auction!! For ..........? fill in the blanks! (a worthwhile cause only)

[rock-n-roll]

I agree with Yes. I think anyone who is a member here and thinks they have some kind of special privilege just because you signed up here should get off their high horse. Just because you signed up here doesn't make this your personal territory. I don't understand why people feel just because they signed up here that makes them special.

It's funny really the way people act who hang out here all day long acting like this site belongs to them just because they answer a few posts and then belittle others because they haven't signed up. This isn't your personal territory any more than it is any other guest who is posting here. Not everyone can spend their whole day just hanging around websites all day long, some folks have to work for a living.

So my opinion is realize that just because you have 2,456,720 posts here doesn't mean you have more say than anyone else who is just visiting here unless Paul Wilders says so because he runs the site not you.

As long as anonymous posts are allowed here i will continue to post here because i have the right to do so according to PW and no one can say a thing about it to the contrary. ;)

[Jzkruzzn]

Been readin all this, seems subject is gettin away from itself, no one said members are better, I get ansers just as good as I am. Like this place but, not
fightin. What happens if no more gests? boring! ;o

[Notok]

Although I can see the merits of having some guest posting, I think requiring registration encourages people 'just passing through' to put a little more thought into what's being said. If what you have to say isn't worth the small step of registering, perhaps you should consider whether it's really worth bringing to attention.

[hayc59]

i think its time to bring this back to the top!!

[Marja]

Why? What happened, tho, I think I know? ;D

[bigc73542]

I think the guest's should be able to read the post's but not able to post until they register.

bigc

[hayc59]

-{ Quote: "I think the guest's should be able to read the post's but not able to post until they register.
bigc" }-BigC, now thats a great idea:)

[bigc73542]

It might be a hard sell but I think it is a good idea. ;)

[GlobalForce]

-{ Quote: "By Marja : "Why? What happened, tho, I think I know?"" }- Don't worry Marja, you didn't miss anything. Open forum is still a welcome invitation to those in need of assistance,
one that avoids imposition and fosters trust.

I'm glad Paul still feels that way....... ;D

GF

[TheSnowMan Guy]

Well, well........this is really something........a bunch of wannabe "privacy advocates" wanting to lock out guests at a privacy/security forum......some of you posters should hang your heads in total shame......
These posters who want to lock the forum.....what have you contributed to the battle against privacy lost or security......I don't recall reading or hearing of anything.....where were you 10-15 years ago when there were just a handful of REAL privacy/security advocates doing all the work.....cause I sure don't remember any of you......when this forum had just a couple of hundred members I don't recall you encouraging people to visit here..............know what I don't recall that any of you did anything.
Let me make a suggestion to those who want to lock down this forum.....how about you just pack up an go somewhere else.....cause you did't EARN the right to complain about one damn thing.....an if you can't tolarate a few "bad "posts then just go into a closet and lock the world out.......your failure to be able to cope with world is your problem...not anyone elses.........how dare you even think that you have a right to refuse help to innocent people .........THAT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING THIS FORUM HAS BEEN ABOUT ........an if the admistration decides to begin collecting names..e mail address and other info.....hey I'll gladly leave and never return...what next..start charging visitors who seek help.......or charge members to join..........maybe reject a new member because of the color of his skin.....or the country he is from.......maybe reject all females........maybe reject all males
My suggestion.....move on elsewhere.....an let the rest of us live in peace.

[TheSnowMan Guy]

During my last short visit to this forum...this topic was started.....I found it so disgusting that I left.......an not very much regret returning.....which should make a few of you happy......
Well...I'll be leaving again very soon.......perhaps when Paul Wilders returns ....then I'll consider returning....

[TheSnowMan Guy]

TYPO CORRECTION:


**an not very much regret returning.....***

should read


** an NOW very much regret returning**

[TheSnowMan Guy]

After my last post I sat quitely thinking about whats happening here.......


Well guess what.....LOCK THE FORUM TO GUESTS.....go for it.....its of no concern to me anymore.......



TheSnowMan Guy

[Bubba]

While the debate could go on and on....there are numerous reasons Guest should be registered before posting....just as there are numerous reasons for Guests not to have to register. As it is now....the Admins have chosen the course to let ALL post....regardless of registration. This can be a good thing or on some days this can be a bad thing....just like it can be a bad thing even when some registered members post. All the site asks is to follow the TOS and the rest can be sorted out in the appropriate manner.

This also is nothing more than a poll started by a member asking for opinions. If and when the Site owner chooses to make a change to posting policy at Wilders....I feel certain it will be done only after great consideration.

Until then....those that wish to remain active at Wilders as contributors....whether they be Guests or members....Please do so. For those that wish to leave....leave and be done with it.

[hayc59]

TheSnowMan, I take your opinions
seriously all the time because I respect your veiws.
This is not a cerified poll sactioned by Paul.Its bascially a way to vent when some jack-off comes here and asked for cracks[warez] all night long and disreupts the fluid flow of operations!!!
Now to my point, please do take some things I say with a grain of salt,in regards to this issue!! This is just my opinion and that is all.
Like I said before and I will say it again. Forums that I Mod at do not tolerate this kind of behaviour just for the fact of having to clean it up all night long.
You/Me everyone gets carried away some days and put on paper what we think
and its not always true to the heart[heat of the moments]
I know you dont really mean what you say. So I will take it with a grain of salt and move to the next phase
G.

[TheSnowMan]

HayC59


An yes I have great respect for you as well........in fact, I have no bones to pick with anyone at this forum.....in fact....not long ago you explained a situation to me....I respectfully stop posting...only in respect for you.

An no...I am not upset...not at all........so lets talk...

BUBBA....you have an opinion......the right to express that opinion....its of the same vaule as that of a member or guest.....EQUAL!!! You are a moderator......not an admistrator......you have no special right to advise anyone to stay or leave....if you think you do....take your own advice...

The admistration knows me well....I am not a person to begin confrontations...in fact, recently I ignorred several flames directed at me.....I kept the peace...........

Gordon I understand your points......what I fail to understand is what appears to be a couple of moderators trying to force their views on others.....I am a member of this forum.....an have a right to express my thoughts....an no one is going to force their thoughts upon me.........
I am more than willing to move on.....but understand this ....I abide by the TOS.....I respect those who give respect in return.....I do not kiss butt.....an if any moderator here dislikes that......tough!

[BlueZannetti]

Guests just sometimes can really try one's patience.

And it's not guests participating in vigorous discussions where reasonable people can and do have viscerally divergent views. It's carpetbomb trolling where the point is not to have a discussion, or even just stir the pot, but to knock the pot off the oven and kick it around a few times.

The vast majority of guest postings are very welcome additions. Infrequently there are some issues. The question is whether you deal with exceptions when they happen or try to account for them beforehand. Frankly, I flip-flop on the issue, jumping between the two extremes, but at the end of the day I tend to come back to the idea that the routine aspects of your life simply cannot be controlled by exceptions, be it the occurrance of lightning strikes, car/plane accidents, or trolling during the late hours.

There are a number of regular guests who make very positive contributions here. They have their reasons for posting as guests, and I'm not about to second guess them. I'd prefer not to lose their voice over this type of issue.

Blue

[TheSnowman Guy]

HayC


Please take note that I had posted that the subject was no longer of any concern to me.....that was the end of the matter as far as I was concerned......

[hayc59]

Now thats fair enough and I will always have you back!!
As far as the mods are concerned here I think its just a matter of
they are tired of cleaning up after such a childish endeavour as posting just to be a 'jerk'[case in point, last night]
I dont think and I dont speak for all[just myself] but no and I mean no one wants you to leave here!!
You are good folk and your postings speak for them'selves.
Here is a little ditty for you
Happy Halloween
Bell Free Bats
Frankenstein went shopping to see What the cost of black bats might be.
He wished them to dwell
In his Halloween Bell.
He now has bats in his bell free.

[TheSnowMan Guy]

For those not awear...I am a member of this forum and have been for many years..........I arrived here by invitation from Paul Wilders....Paul is awear of why I post as a guest........

[TheSnowMan]

HayC

This may come as a surprise....I actually like most all the mods here.....its un-fortunate that I bumped heads with BigC a couple of times..when actually I very much like BigC.........

Its almost normal for people to defer in opinion in a forum like this.....but honestly I don't dislike anyonme here.........I give an apology when I am wrong.....and stand my ground when right......soimebody just can't accept that......an let things go...........

[Bubba]

-{ Quote: "
BUBBA....you have an opinion......the right to express that opinion....its of the same vaule as that of a member or guest.....EQUAL!!! You are a moderator......not an admistrator......you have no special right to advise anyone to stay or leave....if you think you do....take your own advice..." }-
If you wish to view my post in that context that's your business not mine. My post above was made as a member....plain and simple. I also was not advising....I was simply making a comment as a member. A member that very much enjoys what Wilders has to offer and the contribution by many of it's Members AND Guests.

While you may wish to view my comment concerning...."For those that wish to leave....leave and be done with it"....as advise....I'll set that record straight right now. As a member....I do not wish for anyone that does not want to be here to remain and if they want to leave....leave and be done with it. They need to quit all the crap about wanting to leave....I'm going to leave....I'm out of here ....and simply move on. Perhaps after they do....If they do....they'll come to the realization they want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Simple as that.

[TheSnowMan Guy]

TYPO CORRECTION


***soimebody just can't accept that......an let things go...........**


SHOULD READ


*** some people.....................


was not ment for or direct at any one person........



HayC......see..I go out of my way to keep the peace....no desire to offend anyone...................

[Jimbob1989]

-{ Quote: "I am the "troll" Bubba is talking about.

The reason why I "trolled" is because that he infairly closed and edited my topic so that it looks like if I were a jerk and he is an honest person. I feel the need to prevent this from happening.

In particular, Bubba deleted the most important part of my second posting the remainders of which can be found here: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=49060" }-

Well Bubba is a moderator and so as a member, I choose to favour Bubba over a guest.

Jimbob

[Cochise]

During the course of following all the posts with regard to this rubbish, which is neither a Poll or resembling anything of any consequence.....I have come to the conclusion that the two 'Trolls' and I choose my words carefully, arrived at Wilders with the sole intent of dropping a couple of 'Acoustic Mines' in the Harbour then sat back and waited for the reactions, And guess what, they achieved exactly what they intended, simply to cause as much disruption and argument as possible.......OK, Mission accomplished....
What I don't understand is as soon as these people Post, anyone with with half an eye can see exactly where it's all going to go....sooooo....why does anyone even bother to answer the Post......No answer...no reaction....No Troll......makes sense to me.....

As you will have probably noticed 'Stoneheart' is now Stonedead.....

May I also add, with all due respect to all, as I said in another sequel to this Thread, I don't care whether peeps come here as Guests, Members or dressed as Father Christmas, it's not important, what is important is that you come with Good Will and Friendship and a willingness to abide by the RULES of the Owner, surely that's not too much too ask is it?.....

Just to finish, and please don't take offence because I can assure you none is intended and I don't wish to be personal in anyway but may I ask you a question Jimbob 1989?....would the 1989 allude to your birth date and would the 'Illness' you suffer from be called Puberty?.......just a thought!



Cochise, 8) ( Who loves everrrrryyyybody)

[bigc73542]

-{ Quote: "HayC

This may come as a surprise....I actually like most all the mods here.....its un-fortunate that I bumped heads with BigC a couple of times..when actually I very much like BigC.........

Its almost normal for people to defer in opinion in a forum like this.....but honestly I don't dislike anyonme here.........I give an apology when I am wrong.....and stand my ground when right......soimebody just can't accept that......an let things go..........." }-


SnowMan I like reading your post's also and if everyone thought the same it would be a boring world. So a little diversity in thought here is a good thing as long as it is fruitful and doesn't turn into a flame war.

bigc

[,.-]

Guest Sign On's increase the power & control of the moderators and admins. In an "open" forum, the moderators cannot really control the guests. They cannot ban them, they may only delete or edit their topics. However, this comes with the risk that the guests post the same topic again.

As a general rule, I have learned from history lessons in school that too much power may easily corrupt even the finest people. Personally, I believe that this is true.

However, I have never met moderators or admins who considered that such rule may also apply to them.

I believe that a moderator should SERVE a forum. Serving a forum and not excessively/inappropriately making use of power gets more and more difficult over time. After a while, a moderator may be at the end of his/her tether and excessively apply mod powers (instead of using them as an ultimata ratio).

Therefore, I believe that mod powers should be controlled. Same applies to admin powers (unless the admin stays in the background and does not engage in the day-to-day business of a forum). Guest postings are a good way of controlling mod/admin powers.

Moreover, I am wondering whether the use of the following signature would be tolerated in this forum: "In the event that this thread will be edited, closed, deleted or otherwise manipulated there is the possibility to freely continue the discussion in the following non-moderated forum: [insert URL of a random non-moderated forum]."

I sincerely hope that my somewhat revolutionary thoughts won't be deleted ;-)

[Blackspear]

-{ Quote: "...I am wondering whether the use of the following signature would be tolerated in this forum: "In the event that this thread will be edited, closed, deleted or otherwise manipulated there is the possibility to freely continue the discussion in the following non-moderated forum: [insert URL of a random non-moderated forum]."" }-
Interesting thought, however, even this specifically less moderated forum you speak of would still need to be moderated to a degree, in order to make sure things remained legal, and links were not posted to bad sights...

Cheers ;D

[Cochise]

-{ Quote: "Guest Sign On's increase the power & control of the moderators and admins. In an "open" forum, the moderators cannot really control the guests. They cannot ban them, they may only delete or edit their topics. However, this comes with the risk that the guests post the same topic again.

As a general rule, I have learned from history lessons in school that too much power may easily corrupt even the finest people. Personally, I believe that this is true.

However, I have never met moderators or admins who considered that such rule may also apply to them.

I believe that a moderator should SERVE a forum. Serving a forum and not excessively/inappropriately making use of power gets more and more difficult over time. After a while, a moderator may be at the end of his/her tether and excessively apply mod powers (instead of using them as an ultimata ratio).

Therefore, I believe that mod powers should be controlled. Same applies to admin powers (unless the admin stays in the background and does not engage in the day-to-day business of a forum). Guest postings are a good way of controlling mod/admin powers.

Moreover, I am wondering whether the use of the following signature would be tolerated in this forum: "In the event that this thread will be edited, closed, deleted or otherwise manipulated there is the possibility to freely continue the discussion in the following non-moderated forum: [insert URL of a random non-moderated forum]."

I sincerely hope that my somewhat revolutionary thoughts won't be deleted ;-)" }-


Hi there (Whatever that Guest heirogliphic says).....Do you mean by 'Revolutionary' that you go round in ever decreasing circles trying without success to make a point that eventually you sort of disappear up your own.........'Forum'......... ;D ;D......May I ask why you assume you can turn up with your own Agenda and actually believe you'll be taken seriously.....I'm beginning to think it must be 'Walter Mitty' season again......No offence meant of course as you will know doubt have to agree....... ;D



Cochise, 8)

[TheSnowMan Guy]

~`Guest-~

My desire is to not comment on the posted topic....but to address you in particular


Your thoughts are very much in-correct an displays a not ready for prime time poster....(no offense intended)....."most" posters at ANY website can be controled with very little effort..
Althought you express what appears to be sincere thoughts......rarely does any webmaster allow an over-bearing moderator to remain on-site very long......members would leave like the house was on fire......
An please do not mistake my previous comments as ment to incite a "movement" against ANY moderator or moderators at this forum....such is definitely not the case.........
The moderators of this forum are exceptional.......they are also human an capable of making mistakes....of becoming upset....an of getting offended....its during such times that members should come to the aid of the moderators....not by debates....but with thoughts of goodwill.....offering peace....calmness.....insight.......consider....if every time I made a mistake there was a massive attack upon me......that would only cause bitterness......

The Big Chief said it well........I don't give a stink on dog poop who post........as long as the do so with respect for ALL....with peacefull intent..........otherwise.....they should not let the door hit them in their @ss on the way out of the forum...........
as to the slurp about moderators powers.......again mistakes will be made.....are the mistakes intentional...absolutely not.......NO MODERATOR AT THIS FORUM WOULD INTENTIONAL HARM A POSTER>>>MEMBER OR GUEST..........I personally may not agree with each and every moderator but I damm well know they are good men and women deserving of being respected.......NOW THATS A FACT !!!

The topic was ment as a simple poll...nothing more.....if I recall correctly...the BEGINNER of the topic can request the topic be locked to further posting......am not certain................an again I agree with the CHIEF........its become rubish.......of no value......an better to ignor posting on.....the Topic appears to have taken a turn..an is just being used for other intentions....imo


TheSnowman Guy

[TheSnowMan Guy]

GUEST


please do not mis-understand.......my post to you was not a "questioning" of your expressed "thoughts" nor a "judgemental" expression on my part.
Some may consider your ideas good while others may consider them as bad..........nevertheless....the topic has taken such a rash turn that nothing good can come of it.........another time...another place perhaps.......as a matter of respect for the entire forum

[bigc73542]

This thread has completely run off topic and as how the original thread was guest sign on. Lets get back on topic. as of now the thread is going nowhere but downhill.

bigc

Edit: At the request of the thread originator, this thread will now be closed.