SP2??

[Cochise]

OK!......Hands-up all those Sucke.....(Edit) All those people who will D/L SP2 without a seconds thought.....Come on......Don't hang back..... Bill needs to know for his Bank Manager........I know for a fact he reads all that goes on at Wilders........the only place that makes any sense of what's real and what's not......If it was'nt for this place the whole Internet would collapse...Long Live Wilders......


Cochise, 8) (A bit on the Bolshi-side) Had a few single Malts... ;D ;D

[LowWaterMark]

I'll be pulling up the rear, as I did with SP1. :D

I'm rarely on the leading edge of such things. :lurking:

[MikeBCda]

I've gotta go the CD route, since 250 megs (more or less) is out of the question on dialup.

And if SP1 was anything to go by, considering that MS is back to playing games about when they'll even accept orders for the CD's let alone ship them, it's a fair guess that Win Update will already have quite a few patches available by the time the CD's come through.

[Cochise]

Ahh! Haa!....A Man of your Calibre holding back on the advent of SP2....speaks volumes for me......if it ain't good enough for LWM (The Man) then it ain't good enough for the rest of us......so I'm back to 2008 before I give it a go..........Poor ol' Bill will he ever understand us Minions.....we don't ask much do we?......




Cochise, 8)

[Cochise]

-{ Quote: "I've gotta go the CD route, since 250 megs (more or less) is out of the question on Dialup.

And if SP1 was anything to go by, considering that MS is back to playing games about when they'll even accept orders for the CD's let alone ship them, it's a fair guess that Win Update will already have quite a few patches available by the time the CD's come through." }-

Exactly Mike, and with my Dialup, I could go on Holiday for a week and it would still be Downloading when I got back... ;D......Having said that, my ISP is bringing out the 'Darling' Broadband at the end of August....Tesco.net LIVES......so just watch my smoke then....... ;D ;D


Cochise, 8)

[Rainwalker]

Cochise, 8) (A bit on the Bolshi-side) Had a few single Malts... ;D ;D

Which one pray tell
;)

[mercurie]

Yes, long live us all "Creatures of the Wild(ers)" ;D

Not me on SP2. One reason is that I am in the process of dumping expiring Norton AV 2004, on both my machines for other good less resource hog AV's . Then I'll see how SP2 Security Monitor handles them. Also waiting on Zone Labs to get their sorry act together on going from 4.5 Pro to 5.this and that. One issue at a time please. :( :-\

[Cochise]

-{ Quote: "Cochise, 8) (A bit on the Bolshi-side) Had a few single Malts... ;D ;D

Which one pray tell
;)" }-

;D ;D ;D.....Single Malt makes I assume you mean Rainwalker?.....well, the best I can say are any or all that fit nicely into a glass... ::) I'm very easily pleased.....you name it I'll drink it... ;D *puppy*I've never been a proud man ;)



Cochise, 8)

[Ronin]

I find it amusing that while most of you guys would run and quickly test the latest new anti-trojan gaget or to test your defences with some new fangled leak test, something as legimate as Windows XP SP 2 would scare you !

[gerardwil]

Not the security issue scares me, but other apps. not running (well).

[jayzzz]

-{ Quote: "I find it amusing that while most of you guys would run and quickly test the latest new anti-trojan gaget or to test your defences with some new fangled leak test, something as legimate as Windows XP SP 2 would scare you !" }- Legitimate or not, Micro$oft 'issues' are to be expected, especially initially. I'd rather wait and see what's going to be wrong first, then give them enough more time to come up with fixes for the biggies. Tests and gadgets aren't as apt to impact my entire system.

[Brent]

-{ Quote: "Legitimate or not, Micro$oft 'issues' are to be expected, especially initially. I'd rather wait and see what's going to be wrong first, then give them enough more time to come up with fixes for the biggies. Tests and gadgets aren't as apt to impact my entire system." }-
I downloaded the network install of sp2 and reformated. After I reinstalled windows it was the first thing I installed.

I love it to say the least.

[Rainwalker]

-{ Quote: "Legitimate or not, Micro$oft 'issues' are to be expected, especially initially. I'd rather wait and see what's going to be wrong first, then give them enough more time to come up with fixes for the biggies. Tests and gadgets aren't as apt to impact my entire system." }-

DUCK....here they come

@RISK: The Consensus Security Vulnerability Alert
August 16, 2004 Vol. 3. Week 32

Patch Update
(9) Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2

[jayzzz]

-{ Quote: " DUCK....here they come" }- You see? Just like I said...do you mean others have thought of it, too? ;)

[Blackspear]

I have it installed on 4 PC's, I noticed a speed increase, everything went smoothly except ZoneAlarm FREE 5.1.011 which spat the dummy and locked my system up, had to uninstall it in Safe Mode. Went back to the last available version of ZA Free 4.5 and everything is back to running smooth.

Cheers ;D

[jayzzz]

What kind of connection did it speed up for you? (dial-up, DSL or ?)

[Blackspear]

-{ Quote: "What kind of connection did it speed up for you? (dial-up, DSL or ?)" }-
Cable - uncapped speed. Just noticed my system was noticeably faster after installing SP2...

Further comments here:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=44113

Cheers ;D

[jayzzz]

Thanks...I'll follow the link. Noticeably faster on cable is interesting; I've got a cable connection, too!:)

[Blackspear]

-{ Quote: "Thanks...I'll follow the link. Noticeably faster on cable is interesting; I've got a cable connection, too!:)" }-
No, only my system was noticeably faster...

Cheers ;D

[jayzzz]

Well, hopefully, my system will be faster, too, when the moment is right. Generally, as long as everything is going well, I'm not good enough at straightening out problems to risk giving them to myself by screwing up a process I didn't have to do, in the first place.;D Thanks!

[Chuck57]

Not me. I only recently bothered with SP1, and then only because a couple of pieces of software I have require SP1. I admit to downloading SP1 when it first came out. I ended up having to format my drive and reinstall XP. This last download went ok

As for SP2, I'll wait a few years. By then this box will be ready for the dump and I'll have a new Apple, or maybe Linux will be simple enough by then that a computer neanderthal can run it.

[Ronin]

-{ Quote: "Legitimate or not, Micro$oft 'issues' are to be expected, especially initially. I'd rather wait and see what's going to be wrong first, then give them enough more time to come up with fixes for the biggies. Tests and gadgets aren't as apt to impact my entire system." }-

Really? That new fangled firewall with incrediable self-protection quantum signatures technobabblke you are testing is as likely to mess up everything as Windows service packs. Ditto for this new anti-trojan with super duper real time super unzipper facility, which might conflict with your super deluxe antivirus killer.

[jayzzz]

I don't download testers, AVs, FWs OR from Micro$oft w/o reading about others' experiences, first. That would be dumb. :P

[Alec]

I've been running SP2 on a few machines for about a week now. Certainly I would recommend that those with servers or mission-critical workstations to take a "wait and see" attitude, or to likewise do so simply if you don't enjoy being on the bleeding edge and testing things out on occassion. Take your time, it doesn't cure cancer or end world hunger or anything.

There are lots of little noticeable things I do like about SP2 (pop-up blocker, new wireless configuration, handling of ActiveX/Javascript in IE, built-in Windows Firewall, etc.) Then there are some of the not-so-noticeable things that I like in concept (recompilation of executables to include stack-overflow protection, support for NX on AMD and future processors, thousands of bug fixes small and large (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;811113), a few smarter default OS configuration choices, etc.) None of it is all that earth-shattering on its own, but taken together there's quite a bit to like. For the sort of individuals that visit Wilder's, you might be less impressed because some of this you can sort of replicate on your own through 3rd party utilities that we all know and love. But, for those that don't know about things like software firewalls, or any AV product other than Norton AV, it is definitely an improvement and having these on by default on the computer's of PC newbies will generally make us all somewhat safer.

There are things I don't like. Performance may seem slightly "snappier" once the machine is up, but I wouldn't say from my own experience that the difference is that big. The trade-off here is that boot-up times seem noticeably longer, even after trying to use tools like defrag and bootvis. For some reason the native IMAPI (Image Mastering API) CD-ROM burning service (imapi.exe) seems to start up right after boot and then shut down even though I have it on manual. I don't remember this behavior previously. The Windows Update Automatic Updates utility/service (wuauctl.exe) apparently has to be enabled for just the plain Windows Update web site to work now, and it seems to take awhile to engage at startup.

There are some minor annoyances so far. However, many of these I hate to blame on SP2 at this point, rather than 3rd party developers that may need to play a little catch up. But definitely there are a few incompatibilities that crop up from time to time. Certainly not any show-stoppers (yet!, knock on wood) and certainly not as many as some sites might lead you to believe. SP2 is definitely working, and fairly well I might add, but every now and then you might run across some behavior that seems a little problematic or a little different than before. Again, though, I hate to pin all of that on Microsoft at this point. (IMHO, Microsoft should be applauded and encouraged for making changes that improve security, even if some 3rd party developers are used to developing in a more "lax" environment and as result some of these other vendors' code occassionally breaks.)

Anyway, those are some of my initial thoughts...

[jayzzz]

Thank you. :) That's good stuff to know, when the time comes.

The only thing amiss or different with my set-up lately is 3 MFT fragments left over after defragging. I can't see making a change when the system is stable; SP2 will not improve the quality of life, as you said (more or less)!8)

[Bubba]

-{ Quote: "OK!......Hands-up all those Sucke.....(Edit) All those people who will D/L SP2 without a seconds thought" }-
Nah....think I'll stick with my SP4 8)

[TheQuest]

Hi, Cochise

Good question.

From what I have read in the press and seen on TV. ::)

I think I will be waiting for XP-SP3. ;D

Too many must have turn on Services for my liking. >:(

Take Care,
TheQuest 8)

[nadirah]

Our update guru nick just posted that XP SP2 is now available via automatic updates ONLY.

[manOFpeace]

I have automatic updates disabled, no notion of getting SP2 and just reformatted and not even considering SP1 again or other patches and my computer is faster than ever. So far no programs cryng for SP1. ::)
(I have a solid line of defence)

[maddawgz]

ermmmmm!! It came up other day on auto updates i ticked d/l it...it was a box thing with sp2 in it...I assume that Sp2 is d/l in the background now oh oi...did i botch up???? i was thinking about it..and hope it dont screw me system? Wots the best advice..????..I do have the option to install updates when duN?? regards maddawgz ::)

[nick s]

-{ Quote: "I do have the option to install updates when duN??" }-
It depends on your Automatic Update settings. In any case, I doubt your system has been damaged.

Nick

[jayzzz]

I just read Micro$oft's "Top 10 Reasons to Install Windows XP SP2." It is being called "Recommended," but not a "Critical Update." I've got two questions and would be grateful for opinions :):

Is SP2 going to keep my system more secure than it already is with SpywareBlaster (and Sbybot S&D/Ad-Aware), AVG-6, Sygate Personal FW, IE-SPYAD, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, e-Dexter, a frequently updated HOSTS file, seeing emails first in plain text, saving & scanning attachments prior to viewing, being careful about what I download & from where, and already understanding my security settings?
And will future patches and updates be based on the assumption that SP2 was installed, and cause problems or be ineffective if I do not have it? In other words, how long is it practical for me to delay it before it will do me more harm than good?

[ronjor]

-{ Quote: "Is SP2 going to keep my system more secure than it already is with SpywareBlaster (and Sbybot S&D/Ad-Aware), AVG-6, Sygate Personal FW, IE-SPYAD, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, e-Dexter, a frequently updated HOSTS file, seeing emails first in plain text, saving & scanning attachments prior to viewing, being careful about what I download & from where, and already understanding my security settings?" }-

I don't see how it would.



-{ Quote: "And will future patches and updates be based on the assumption that SP2 was installed, and cause problems or be ineffective if I do not have it? In other words, how long is it practical for me to delay it before it will do me more harm than good?" }-

I just checked Widows Updates and it looks like Version 4 is gone. It was there this morning.

We're doomed!! 8)

[nick s]

-{ Quote: "I
Is SP2 going to keep my system more secure than it already is with SpywareBlaster (and Sbybot S&D/Ad-Aware), AVG-6, Sygate Personal FW, IE-SPYAD, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, e-Dexter, a frequently updated HOSTS file, seeing emails first in plain text, saving & scanning attachments prior to viewing, being careful about what I download & from where, and already understanding my security settings?
And will future patches and updates be based on the assumption that SP2 was installed, and cause problems or be ineffective if I do not have it? In other words, how long is it practical for me to delay it before it will do me more harm than good?
[/list]" }-
On your first question, there's probably no need to go to SP2 until exploits are developed specifically for SP1 and those security apps running on SP1 systems. On the second question, I would expect fixes to be issued for each SP, mainly because commercial users don't upgrade immediately. Nothing wrong with waiting. (I've had no problems with SP2 since RC2 on my desktop and laptop).

Nick

[jayzzz]

Thank you both. If I knew what RC2 and Version 4 were, I'd know exactly what you said! :-[ I'm confident any doomed we may be is unrelated.;)

[ronjor]

Release candidate2 of sp2 and version 4 of windows update.

[ronjor]

The Night Before Startup


'Twas the night before startup
and all through the house
not a program was working,
there clicked not a mouse

The users were nestled all snug in their beds
with visions of systems alive in their heads.
The programmers slumped round their screens in despair
and felt that a miracle now would be fair.

Then from the back office there rose such a chatter
I sprang from my desk to see what was the matter
and there to my marveling eyes did appear
a wonder programmer * with a six pack of beer.

His resume glowed with experience so rare
he turned out great code with that bit-pusher's flair.
He spoke not a word but went straight to his work,
turning specs into code like a sitcom berserk.

A wink of his eye and a nod of his head
soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread.
More smoothly than salesmen his programs they come;
he whistled and shouted and called them by name.

On update, on add, on inquire and delete,
on batch jobs, on closing on functions complete.
His eyes all glazed over, hands nimble and lean,
from long days and nights spent in front of a screen.

He tapped and he hammered, he nothing did shirk,
turning specs into code; then he turned with a smirk,
and laying his finger upon Enter key,
the system came up and worked perfectly.

The updates updated, the deletes all deleted,
the inquiries inquired and the closing completed.
He tested each whistle, he tested each bell,
and with nary an append it all had gone well.

The system was finished, the tests were concluded,
the client’s last changes were even included.
Then the user explained in apocalypt font,
"It’s just what I asked for, but not what I want."

[jayzzz]

Thanks...and laughing at "The Night Before Startup." :D

[mercurie]

:D :D :D (clap....clap....clap) I like I like Ron very funny. ;D

[cadmus]

Bravo Ronjor!! A man of hidden talents. More please, the cyber world needs a bard!

[Shae]

I would have to say IMHO, waiting to download SP2 is probably the wise thing to do. I look at big Microsoft SPs like that like Caution Signs on the highway, watch out, proceed with caution. ;) Anyways, major thanks to Wilders for keeping their message board out of the trash can. Seen too much of that on other boards...not a pretty site. :-[ By the way, my PC is quite stable at the moment. No sense upsetting the apple carts. ;)

[q1aqza]

I installed SP2 and the start up time seems to have quadrupled !!

My system is taking longer to start up nowadays since I've been spending too much time reading this forum and installing/testing additional security goodies ;D . I've never timed it but I guess it usually takes about a minute from first view of desktop.

That aside, after installing SP2 last night, from first view of the desktop at startup until all systray apps have started and the desktop icons have found their links, I have enough time to go away and boil the kettle and make a cup of tea!! It's ridiculous. Performance seems normal thereafter though.

With the weekend coming up I'll have chance to spend a bit of time troubleshooting but my gut feel is that I will be restoring my previous ghost image - no big loss, I wanted to install SP2 more out of curiosity than any real desire to have it.

Has anyone else experienced such a dramatic slowdown at startup?

Just for info my specs and startup apps:
XP2400 on MSI NForce 2 mobo
512 DDR RAM running dual channel

Major startup apps:
Outpost Pro 2.1
Kaspersky 4.5 Pro (resident)
NOD32 control center (on demand advanced heuristics)
SpywareGuard
SpywareBlaster
PGP Tray
MSI PC Alert 4
Spybot 1.3 (with Tea Timer)

[nadirah]

I heard from pcworld.com that microsoft has again delayed SP2's delivery via automatic updates. They say SP2 is delayed by 9 days because some corporate networks and a few businesses are not ready for SP2 yet.

[jayzzz]

q1aqza - Alec's post #24 in this thread also mentions the boot slow-down you cited as significant.

nadirah - I've had SP2 available through Automatic Update since yesterday, and it's still there this morning. I wonder at what point in the process they were supposed to be delaying it...

:)

[Alec]

-{ Quote: "I installed SP2 and the start up time seems to have quadrupled !!
...

Has anyone else experienced such a dramatic slowdown at startup?" }-I definitely noticed the same thing. I think it is due to several factors, one of the most significant is that right after SP2 install many of your system files are spread all over your harddrive and maybe even fragmented to a fairly significant extent. Remember, SP2 overwrites a very significant number of key system files because even if they haven't been recoded significantly, Microsoft has nevertheless recompiled many of them with new compiler options that prevent certain specific security risks like common stack overflow issues. So, you have all of the old system files, then SP2 sets up a temp install directory in which it unpacks everything, then it backs up and compresses the old system files, then it copies in the new system files, finally it deletes the temp unpack directory. It's a lot of disk rearranging. So first thing, try a simple defrag procedure, it should help some.

If a simple defrag doesn't help out much, then the next thing you may want to do is get a little more aggressive and use Microsoft's BootVis (http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=664) utilitiy. You will note that even though it is a Microsoft authored tool, you will no longer find it on Microsoft's site (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/sysperf/fastboot/bootvis.mspx) because apparently they don't think end-users should have access to this tool. Regardless of their wording, and even if the optimization routines are "built into Windows XP" and they do "run automatically at predetermined times", I still find it useful to be able to force an optimization to occur. If you have never used it before, the main things you can do are: 1) a "Trace" which does detailed analysis of the next reboot and the length of time for said reboot; and 2) an "Optimization" which will analyze the next reboot and then rearrange files on the disk for faster reading at boot time. Both options are under the "Trace" menubar header.

When I performed trace's on my SP2 system, I noticed that during boot the "IMAPI CD-Burning COM Service" would startup and then shutdown. It took a significant amount of time and I'm not sure why it did this since I had that service listed as "manual" in the services admin utility. This behavior seemed new to me with SP2. I don't burn a lot of CD-ROM's on this particular computer and I usually use third party software to do so in any case, so I just disabled this service altogether. It has seemed to help. I haven't tried burning a CD-ROM yet, though ;) I don't think my 3rd party burning apps require this Microsoft supplied service, but I'm not absolutely sure. If they do, then I will just re-enable it and start it myself prior to use.

I have also set the "Windows Firewall/Internet Connection Sharing (ICS)" service to manual as opposed to automatic since I use a third party software firewall (ZoneAlarm). I set a few other unused services to manual as well, but many of the other choices depend on what you intend using your computer for, and what you don't mind living without. My boot times now seem comparable to pre-SP2.

HTH...

[q1aqza]

I defragged before the update but haven't checked the state since the install.

Ive read somewhere (maybe here or another forum) that you should shut down most of your main background apps, i.e. AV, FW, AT etc. before install. I didn't do this.

That bootvis app looks interesting, I'll give it a look over the weekend.

Since learning stuff from this site I am confident about my PC security without SP2 but I feel sorry for the "average home user" (sorry if this sounds patronising to anyone, it's not meant to be) who will get this update via auto update and may have problems without knowing how to undo it if it does cause big problems.

[Cochise]

-{ Quote: "The Night Before Startup


'Twas the night before startup
and all through the house
not a program was working,
there clicked not a mouse

The users were nestled all snug in their beds
with visions of systems alive in their heads.
The programmers slumped round their screens in despair
and felt that a miracle now would be fair.

Then from the back office there rose such a chatter
I sprang from my desk to see what was the matter
and there to my marveling eyes did appear
a wonder programmer * with a six pack of beer.

His resume glowed with experience so rare
he turned out great code with that bit-pusher's flair.
He spoke not a word but went straight to his work,
turning specs into code like a sitcom berserk.

A wink of his eye and a nod of his head
soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread.
More smoothly than salesmen his programs they come;
he whistled and shouted and called them by name.

On update, on add, on inquire and delete,
on batch jobs, on closing on functions complete.
His eyes all glazed over, hands nimble and lean,
from long days and nights spent in front of a screen.

He tapped and he hammered, he nothing did shirk,
turning specs into code; then he turned with a smirk,
and laying his finger upon Enter key,
the system came up and worked perfectly.

The updates updated, the deletes all deleted,
the inquiries inquired and the closing completed.
He tested each whistle, he tested each bell,
and with nary an append it all had gone well.

The system was finished, the tests were concluded,
the client’s last changes were even included.
Then the user explained in apocalypt font,
"It’s just what I asked for, but not what I want."" }-


Ron........That is theeeeeee best thing I've read for a long time....if you wrote that Mate you have missed your vocation......Classic stuff.....Give us more........ ;D :-* :-*


Cochise, 8)

[ronjor]

Stolen from the net I'm afraid. ::) Seemed to fit though. 8)

[Cochise]

Well take the credit anyway, you deserve it.......... ;D.....There's nothing wrong with a bit of plagerism........... ::)


Cochise, 8)

[slammer_JvA]

-{ Quote: "
We're doomed!! 8)" }- ...yep, we are.
(But there's nothing new; weren't we already (many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many) times? ? ?

Since the d.o.b. of a certain B.G....:(

;D

[bigc73542]

I installed the it network version of sp2 and it seems so far to run flawlessly. so far I like it, it installed with no problems. I installed it with my av running and it recognized my mcafee 7.03.6000. As mentioned in this thread you really need to defrag after sp2 install.

[BlueZannetti]

I just got finished converting three systems over. Two are on a Netgear based 802.11a wireless setup. The only way I could get connectivity was to disabled the WEP encryption and go with an open system. It also seems to have problems if I try to use the native Windows network configurator - have to disable that and use the HA311 configuration utility. At least these are the kids systems, and I do have MAC address based access control still on, but sheesh, this is progress?

From a few things I've read in debugging this problem and trying various work arounds (remove/reinstall hardware, driver software, etc.), it seems like this update may be a rocky road for a number of wireless connections.

Blue

[bigc73542]

I didn't mention that my linksys wireless never missed a beat, all was recognized.

[q1aqza]

Further to my post 42 on this thread and Alec's reply suggested another defrag, I checked this and yes the SP2 install had caused a substantial amount of fragmentation - 33% I'd defragged before the upgrade and was very surpised to to see this occur. Anyway, a defrag has brought the startup time back down closer to what it was before SP2. I've had worse fragmentations and never seen such a slowdown.

It all seems to be running quite sweet now.

@BlueZannetti,
I'm running Netgear 802.11b wireless and it has been working absolutley fine with 128 bit encryption on. I'm still using the Netgear proprietary wireless driver rather than the XP one - I've read the XP one can cause problems with Netgear wireless adapter.

[BlueZannetti]

I have a bit of a note into Netgear. Not sure what they'd do. The drivers haven't been updated since basically the product release a couple of years ago and the product itself is obsolete. I really dont want to run open, maybe its time for an upgrade, but I'll see what Netgear comes up with first.