The beginning of the end

[root]

I am so mad I'm having a heart attack I think. I just decided to download Cookie Crusher to give it a try. It uses the M$ msi installer, and has no uninstall feature. I figured I could get around that.
So, I went to install it, and it told me I had to download and install M$s .NET framework files. Like hell!!!
Well, that puppy hit light speed going past the garbage bin on the way out of my life. I also promptly sent an email to the company, telling them what I thought about their using dot NET crap.
This is it. This is what I have been ranting about ever since I heard of dot net. We are beginning to loose our choice as to wether we want to install stuff like dot net framework on our computer. Soon, it Gates has his way, virtually everyone will have to play by his rules, or do without current technology.
I really resent that SOB forcing me to Linux. >:( >:( >:(

Just got their reply. It's what I expected.

>Hi.
>I just thought I would tell you, you lost a customer because you
>insist on using the M$ .NET crap.
>No one is going to dictate to me how I compute. Period.
>
>Get with it and quit letting M$ and Darth Gates lead you around by
>the nose.
>
>Ghery

I'm sorry to hear that. You might want to consider not using Windows.


Thank you,

The Limit Software Support
Check frequently asked questions and more @ http://www.thelimit.biz/support/

[Mr.Blaze]

I feel much like you do but the begining of the end typ thing not me i aint one to bow dowen to nothing.

i wont just lay there like some beaten dog

but i am curiouse you telling me the m$ .net frame work is the same .net spyware that ive removed so many times?

im looking threw my computer and i still havent found that spyware i used all the applications to get rid of it havent seen it.

are you sure the NET framework on microsoft update page is the same spyware?

cause i updated to it and havnt found the spyware

[snapdragin]

-{ Quote: " quoting: root link=board=27;threadid=3261;start=0#21992 date=1030402443]
I am so mad I'm having a heart attack I think.
" }-

Root - don't you even think about that!
we just got you better---don't make us take your toys away!

-{ Quote: "I just decided to download Cookie Crusher to give it a try. It uses the M$ msi installer, and has no uninstall feature. I figured I could get around that.
" }-

i know i couldn't get around it---i would definitely NEED an uninstall feature, actually it's one of the first things i look for before i try anything new. Thanks for the heads-up Root!
(scratches the Cookie Crusher off the list of new programs to try)

-{ Quote: "So, I went to install it, and it told me I had to download and install M$s .NET framework files. Like hell!!!
Well, that puppy hit light speed going past the garbage bin on the way out of my life. I also promptly sent an email to the company, telling them what I thought about their using dot NET crap.
This is it. This is what I have been ranting about ever since I heard of dot net. We are beginning to loose our choice as to wether we want to install stuff like dot net framework on our computer. Soon, it Gates has his way, virtually everyone will have to play by his rules, or do without current technology.
I really resent that SOB forcing me to Linux. >:( >:( >:(
" }-

ooooh, there is no way i will ever be able to use linux. :-[
i have seen this .NET thing on the up-date page for Windows but it still comes up under the "Suggested Downloads".....and i ignore it each time....don't really know what it's all about, so i'm not going to install it. Is there a possibility that this .NET framework stuff is going to be something that will end up downloaded in future patches without our knowledge or choice?

-{ Quote: "Just got their reply. It's what I expected.

.......I'm sorry to hear that. You might want to consider not using Windows.

Thank you,

The Limit Software Support
Check frequently asked questions and more @ http://www.thelimit.biz/support/

" }-

oh, that's a nasty response. ~frown~
i wonder why they didn't suggest not using their product?

snap

[Mr.Blaze]

are you guys sure its the same .net im still looking for that little buger

[UNICRON]

I am no M$ advocate as you all know, but in this case i have to stick up for them a bit.

the .net framework is not much different than the VB runtimes we all need to run programs in visual basic. I have used the .net framework to develop rudimentary web services when at a M$ developer seminar (free, and they bought lunch, plus they gave me a jacket).

The framework I was given certainly had no spyware in it. I am curious to know what evils the framework has. I will tell you that pretty much all programs developed to run on any M$ OS are going to be using it sooner or later, so you better get used to it or jump ship.

I was actually fairly impressed with its robust development environment and ability to use a class structure that melds many languages (allowing many people to work on a project but all use their language of choice).

The next M$ OS code names "Blackcomb" which is build entirely in XML will have an unremovable .NET framework. I wouldn't be surprised if you'll have to keep a connection open to M$ at all times for the OS to work (or something similarly dreadful)

Useless fact: Blackcomb is the name of the sister moutain to MT Wistler found in the south west corner of Canada. "Whistler" was the code name for winXP. Weird that M$ would use Canadian ski resort mountains as code names.

[Mr.Blaze]

(uni)uniM$ developer seminar (free, and they bought lunch, plus they gave me a jacket).

ohhhhh no they bought off my uni those mo fos shall pay.

ill just drive dowen there in my new jag that they bought me and give them a pice of my mind =0

=0i didnt get the jacket or the free lunch

[Mike_Healan]

-{ Quote: " quoting: UNICRON link=board=27;threadid=3261;start=0#22030 date=1030424930]
I wouldn't be surprised if you'll have to keep a connection open to M$ at all times for the OS to work (or something similarly dreadful)
" }-

:o

looks to see how his Save-Up-To-Buy-A-Mac fund is doing.

[Detox]

Bah I'm sure I can use my Win98SE for years to come! I've got 2 of the silly things...

[root]

-{ Quote: "What is .NET?:
Microsoft .NET can best be described as the initiative that will allow the Internet to be the basis of a new operating system. It frees us from the constraints of hardware by making user data available from the internet. .NET is important to users then because it makes their information accessible across all devices. It is also important to developers because it will change the way they develop applications by allowing them to hook into Web Services.

Simply put, Microsoft .NET is Microsoft's strategy for delivering software as a service." }-

Article here.
http://www.gotdotnet.com/about_new.aspx

Simply put dot net is a M$ strategy for delivering software as a service.
This is my complaint, pure and simple. I do not want to rent programs from M$. I do not want to have to be connected to the net, M$, or anyplace else if I want to use a word processor, a spread sheet, or to defrag my hard drive.
Think about the dominance this gives M$. Consider the disadvantage that all other software makers will be under.
The very nature of this beast is that you will have to trust M$s security measures to protect you and your personal information.
Ain't no way Jose'.
I too have had trouble with Linux, so Mac is looking better all the time.
UNICRON, I really don't care how well it works. What has me steaming is the fact that M$ is forcing this on the world. It is an unveiled attempt for total dominance of the computing world. It is Gates' middle finger both hands in the face of the American judicial system, which told him in no uncertain terms to cease and desist in this drive to overwhelm the competition from his position of dominance in the software industry.
It is unbelievable that the population of this planet would roll over for that meglomaniac. BAH! >:(

[UNICRON]

Root, this initiative is a natual and logical progression of computing technology. Sun Microsystems has an almost identical platform called "Sun ONE". This isn't really a dominating M$ strategy, this is where computing is going and M$ wants to stay competitive. They have no real choice since if they don't they will be left behind. Some people say that M$ stole the whole idea from Sun (since much of it is identical to the current JAVA technology and new Sun ONE initiative)

I understand your reluctance to be dependant on web services as a whole, but M$ is not the sole reason for its conception. the idea has been around for quite some time. UNIX has used this idea on a local LAN for years. It is economical and effective.

[FanJ]

Nevertheless I completely agree with Root !!!!!

[Mike_Healan]

I tried to learn linux. Installed it and played with it for a couple of months, but it wasn't for me. Mac is meant to be easy and supposedly it's very stable.
It'll cost more and I really wish they'd let 3rd parties make hardware for their OS so we could build custom computers, or at least upgrade what we buy. Still preferable to what M$ is leading us all toward. Sooner or later, they'll make a .net passport mandatory to run the OS and then it'll be damned near impossible to avoid filling out a blasted survey just to run your computer.

[snapdragin]

-{ Quote: " quoting: root link=board=27;threadid=3261;start=0#21992 date=1030402443]
.........it told me I had to download and install M$s .NET framework files.
" }-

Root - if i am understanding this right, in order to install and use Cookie Crusher you needed to install .Net framework files, without it, Cookie Crusher wouldn't work.....right?

i agree with you 100% - i do not want anyone forcing a service on me in order for me to use my pc and an OS i believe i purchased (checks her receipt).....i don't remember signing up for any continued service that would give M$ total power over what i should have on my pc! (wondering if this service/connection that might be coming in the future is going to be added to our net connection costs through our ISP's??)

my concern here is if a program like Cookie Crusher cannot be used without M$'s .Net....what other programs will follow suit?

snap

[root]

-{ Quote: "Root - if i am understanding this right, in order to install and use Cookie Crusher you needed to install .Net framework files, without it, Cookie Crusher wouldn't work.....right?" }-
That's right. I got a message when I tried to install it, saying I needed to download and install M$ .net framework.

-{ Quote: "my concern here is if a program like Cookie Crusher cannot be used without M$'s .Net....what other programs will follow suit?" }-

Exactly. It is another very questionable piece of software, that M$ is trying to make become another piece of his OS, with the sole purpose of dictating how and what we can do with our computers.
Read up on the entire plan Bill Gates has in mind. His sole desire is to gain such control of your computer that you will be able to do nothing without his .net, passport, and whatever else is going with it. He needs total control to stop the pirating of his wares and will not stop until he has it. He is not offering us the next logical step in computing, he is offering us the next logical step in control of the world.
PS Read the eulas of all M$ fixes, installs, updates, etc. Surprise!

[javacool]

This is exactly the reason why I have been shying away from using the new .Net versions of Microsoft "Visual" programming languages.

They are quite appealing to any developer or software program in their wealth of new features, and melding together of the languages (as Uni stated earlier).

However, many users just simply do NOT have the .Net framework installed, nor do they WANT to install it. (Plus, it is a VERY large download - especially for users with dial-up internet connections).

Also, I'd rather not have to force any users to install it to run any programs I make - simply because it is new, and new MS products ALWAYS have security issues. Also, its tie-in with web services opens up many new possibilities for vulnerabilities.

.Net is a benefit for developers (if I were working on net web services, I would definitely use it), but the average user does not want to bother with installing the framework, or even be bothered with .Net at all (due to the problems and viewpoints raised in this thread) - and I would rather allow as many people to have access to my utilities as possible, then to shave a little time off of coding because of .Net's flexibility and new time-saving features and risk having people NOT use my utilities because of the framework they are built on.

6.0 versions will work fine for me, for quite a while to come.

-Javacool

[root]

As they would say down under, "good on ya, mate".
I hope most programmers take that approach. :)

[snapdragin]

-{ Quote: " quoting: root link=board=27;threadid=3261;start=0#22235 date=1030572522]
...PS Read the eulas of all M$ fixes, installs, updates, etc. Surprise!
" }-

Root, why do i get the feeling i have probably already "signed up" for this .Net thing service??

this may not be fair to say, but for the life of me i can not seem shake the thought of how much this feels like what Brilliant Digital tried to do.

snap

ps...LOL! javacool's going to have to go on a karma diet if we keep giving him all these cookies ;)

[UNICRON]

IMHO I think this whole issue has more to do with hyseria than logic but either way, people can't be forced to eat what they don't want to. Only time will tell how all of this plays out.

[Open Source]

premorial soup of information and changing times either one adapts to changing times or gets left behind adapt or become extinct

[root]

So, when Hitler was attempting to change the world more to his liking, we should have just adapted?

[UNICRON]

Root, there is no relationship between NAZIs and evolving computer architecture. That type of comment about some particular development software ratifies my point regarding the hysteria surrounding .NET.

No one is making you use .NET anymore than they forced you are gun point to abandon DOS for windows.

Open Source suggested that those who stay behind with DOS and don't ever learn or use the new stuff will be at a competitive disadvantage over time. I find that a fairly defensible position.

[root]

meg·a·lo·ma·ni·a n.

A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.
An obsession with grandiose or extravagant things or actions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

-{ Quote: "Root, there is no relationship between NAZIs and evolving computer architecture. That type of comment about some particular development software ratifies my point regarding the hysteria surrounding .NET." }-
The relationship I was referring to was Gates and Hitler. Two megalomaniacs if there ever were.
-{ Quote: "No one is making you use .NET anymore than they forced you are gun point to abandon DOS for windows." }-
No, no one is going to make me use .net. But in developing the next generation of computing, I have a right to expect M$ to operate in a fair and conventional business environment. To force upon the users no option but to rent programs by the hr? No regard for people that are years away from a high speed connection. Expecting me to entrust M$ with personal and private information and they assure me they are going to protect it???? Thats the biggest joke of the centry.
You just go right ahead and love it all you want. I won't argue about it any more. I was raised in a country and a time where I was taught just because the other guys bigger, doesn't give him the right to walk all over me.
And he'll never see another penny from me. ;D

[Paul Wilders]

root,

with due respect:

-{ Quote: "The relationship I was referring to was Gates and Hitler. Two megalomaniacs if there ever were." }-

This comparison is entering a twilight zone. One could apply one and the same for Nero, Caligula, Napoleon and many more.

Difference is, there are no people around any more suffering from the behaviour from the ones I mentioned - contrary to Hitler.

In this context, please refrain from involving Hitler into threads like these - hope you do see my point.

regards.

paul

[javacool]

NEW UPDATE:

Quote from CNET news.com:
-{ Quote: "
(http://news.com.com/2100-1040-955912.html)

[Windows XP] Service Pack 1 also consolidates previously released OS updates and adds some new ones, such as USB 2.0 device drivers and the .Net Framework, which is essential for Windows XP to support Microsoft's .Net Web services strategy. The service pack also introduces a new version of Windows Messenger, Microsoft's instant messaging client.
" }-

So Windows XP SP1 will FORCE you to install the .Net framework...

I wonder how many people will cave in and how many will simply refuse to install Windows XP Service Pack 1 on their PCs? (The spyware it includes in another issue entirely).

-Javacool

[Mr.Blaze]

Will i understand where root comeing from its like food being shoved dowen your throat by some stranger telling you its good for you lol.

but you do have to go with the times plus i dont see any spyware inthis or something evill so i dont see the big deal?

if it had a keyloger or something nasty and hidden then id understand completly why not to install it.

but i dont even see it calling home to microsoft like stupit internet explorer does on my fire wall

[javacool]

-{ Quote: " quoting: MRBLAZE link=board=27;threadid=3261;start=15#22434 date=1030660430]
Will i understand where root comeing from its like food being shoved dowen your throat by some stranger telling you its good for you lol.

but you do have to go with the times plus i dont see any spyware inthis or something evill so i dont see the big deal?

if it had a keyloger or something nasty and hidden then id understand completly why not to install it.

but i dont even see it calling home to microsoft like stupit internet explorer does on my fire wall
" }-

I believe the main reason people don't want to install the .Net framework is because it opens up possibilities for "web services" - and thus, possibly, many new security vulnerabilities.

-Javacool

P.S. Windows XP SP1 does include "spyware" in a certain sense - see the folllowing link for more details: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/idblasterxp.html

[Tinribs]

Well I wont be installing the service pack,nor .Net software,I too am getting a bit sick of companies trying to take a great service for all (the Web) and desperately try to take over it and make it their own,wringing every last bit out of unsuspecting users. My personal stand starts here.

(I feel like 'Wolfie' from 'Citizen Smith' now!,anyone remember him from tv?) ;D

[root]

My apologies if I seemed insensitive. I did not mean to be.
I guess everyone knows how I feel about this, so I'll let it go and move on to bigger and better things.

[UNICRON]

well we can agree to disagree :) Time will be the ultimate judge.