WRSA 8.0.1.82 and VIPRE anti-Virus 2012

[puff-m-d]

Hello,

I have been having a conflict between WRSA and VIPRE now for the last several WRSA builds. I finally have a pattern that may give enough information to troubleshoot the conflict. Here is what I know:

If VIPRE is already installed and then I install WRSA, both programs work fine.
If WRSA is installed and then I install VIPRE, VIPRE has lockups, GUI will not open, and random BSOD's on boot.
All of the program components for VIPRE are always marked "monitor" under System Tools>System Control>Control Active Processes. Changing these to allow helps somewhat but does not completely solve the problem.
With VIPRE installed first, WRSA second, and with both working fine, and then a program update is available for VIPRE, Vipre again will not work properly and has the same errors noted above until I uninstall and then reinstall WRSA. After this is done, all works properly.


So in conclusion:

As long as WRSA is the last program installed, then both VIPRE and WRSA both will work properly and if VIPRE is installed last the problems occur.
Whenever doing program updates for VIPRE, it is best to uninstall WRSA first, do the update, and then reinstall WRSA. You can also do the VIPRE update first, then uninstall and reinstall WRSA, but in this scenario you will have to put up with conflicts until you get WRSA uninstalled/reinstalled.


I am on Vista Home Premium 64 bit. As I say, this has been happening for several builds now and I have just now figured out the exact symptoms. I thought I would start with WRSA as far as troubleshooting since WRSA is made to be compatible with other security apps. If I need to I can also let Nick at GFI know about this thread if the problem appears to be on his end. Thanks in advance for any help with this conflict.

[Triple Helix]

Hi Kent,

I have WSA and VIPRE AV 2012 on 3 VM's Win XP Pro SP3 32bit, Vista Ultimate SP2 32bit and Win 7 Ultimate SP1 32bit and I have not seen any issues upgrading either VIPRE from 4 to 5 or WSA updates and I have unistalled VIPRE for a test and reinstalled with WSA still installed and I didn't see any issues so it could be a Vista x64 issue? I'm just supplying info as to the 32bit platform of Vista! If the issue continues it might be best to contact WSA support directly? http://www.webrootanywhere.com/support

TH

[puff-m-d]

Hi TH,

It must be specific to either 64 bit or only Vista 64 bit then. It is totally reproducible here and I have tried all software combinations I can think of and WRSA is the only one that when paired with VIPRE produce these results. I think probably it is specific only to Vista HP 64 bit considering the results you got.

[puff-m-d]

-{ Quote: "If the issue continues it might be best to contact WSA support directly? http://www.webrootanywhere.com/support" }-Done....

[Triple Helix]

-{ Quote: "Hi TH,

It must be specific to either 64 bit or only Vista 64 bit then. It is totally reproducible here and I have tried all software combinations I can think of and WRSA is the only one that when paired with VIPRE produce these results. I think probably it is specific only to Vista HP 64 bit considering the results you got." }-

I just installed VIPRE AV 2012 on my main Laptop Win 7 x64 for a test and I had WSA on already and I still see no issues no lock-ups during install or scan with VIPRE! I also have LNS and WinPatrol Plus! Also seen that WSA put it under allow on the list on Control Active Processes!

TH

[puff-m-d]

Hi TH,

Strange as VIPRE's processes always come up as monitor on mine and I change them to allow. Your further testing with Win 7 x64 again points to either something unique to my setup or unique to Vista HP x64... When I contacted support I gave them the link to this thread so they can also see what you have posted...

[Triple Helix]

Update everything was running fine until I Right Click Scan a folder with VIPRE and it froze up so I did a hard reboot uninstalled VIPRE and WSA rebooted and installed VIPRE without WSA and did the same thing as in RCS of a folder with VIPRE and it froze up so I think it is a VIPRE issue as to a WSA issue? But a standard scan with VIPRE with WSA was fine until I did RCS of a folder! And I found VIPRE heavy on this machine so again it could be a VIPRE and x64 issue not WSA?

HTH,

TH

[puff-m-d]

I only have a problem if I install or do a program update of VIPRE with WRSA already installed. If I do the install/program update of VIPRE with WRSA not installed and then install WRSA afterwards, both programs work fine. Also if I do an uninstall/reinstall of WRSA after the VIPRE install/program update, both work fine. It is only when WRSA is installed and then I install or do a program update of VIPRE that there are problems. I only have the problems with VIPRE in this scenario and WRSA must be installed to have the problem. If there is no WRSA installed then VIPRE is fine, I have no problems whatsoever with it.

[Triple Helix]

Again I'm just testing and I upgraded VIPRE to the latest Beta and still have problems with RCS of a folder and freezing for me no WSA on it ATM just VIPRE on Win 7 x64! All my VM's that are 32bit run fine with VIPRE & WSA. Maybe contact GFI support to see what they say also?

TH

231457

[puff-m-d]

Posted at the GFI beta forum... (http://forums.gfi.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=900806008&mpage=1#900806008)

[Triple Helix]

-{ Quote: "Posted at the GFI beta forum... (http://forums.gfi.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=900806008&mpage=1#900806008)" }-

Thanks for that! As you can see I have WSA and VIPRE running together and just alittle sluggish, normal VIPRE Quick scan is fine, WSA scan is fine, until I try a RCS of a folder with VIPRE and froze up upon reboot I disabled VIPRE realtime protection and RCS of the folder works fine with WSA installed with allot less lag on a i7CPU with 16GB of Ram!

TH

[Triple Helix]

I have removed VIPRE as it makes my system very sluggish with VIPRE Realtime Protection enabled and did a clean install of WSA so I'm back to normal fast! But I do hope this situation does get resolved for x64 systems as again I have no issues on my 32bit VM's with the two!

TH

[NickHSunbelt]

Puff-m-d, are you using VIPRE Internet Security or just VIPRE Antivirus on this system? I'm going to test this out and see if I can reproduce the issue you're seeing.

Triple Helix, I haven't heard any other report of issues specifically with right click scans. Do you currently have any other security software on the machine? Do you have a lot of other software using shell extensions that would also show up on the right click menu?


Edit: I've tried running the two programs alongside each other on 64 bit Vista and didn't run into any issues. It looks like there is probably something else on the system that is conflicting. I'd be happy to take a look at your system information to get a better idea of what might be causing the problem.

To create a system information file just click the Start button and type "msinfo32" without quotes into the search bar then hit Enter. Click File > Save. Name the file sysinfo and save it to your desktop. This should take a few minutes to create. Once it's done you can upload the file to this site:

https://files.gfi.com/

[puff-m-d]

Hi Nick,

Thanks for stopping by. I am using the RC of SR1 of the anti-virus only (5134). I will have those files for you in a bit.

[Triple Helix]

Hi Nick,

Yes I have many On-Demand scanners that show in the context menu! I remember a year or 2 ago on the old Sunbelt forum I had an issue with Prevx 3 and VIPRE AV only that would take allot of more time for a P3 scan as VIPRE AV reatime was scanning the files at the same time if that helps as I can't find it on the new GFI forums?

TH

231470

[puff-m-d]

Nick,
Logs have been uploaded, name of file: puff-m-d-Wilders.nfo
I removed both programs, reinstalled WRSA first, then VIPRE Anti-virus 2012 (5134). Here is an example of the hang-ups: If I click on Open VIPRE in the system tray, it can take 15 to 20 minutes for the GUI to open. Other times the GUI has not opened after 30 minutes and never does. It always takes a minimum of 10 minutes to open.

[puff-m-d]

Hello,

-{ Quote: "I removed both programs, reinstalled WRSA first, then VIPRE Anti-virus 2012 (5134)." }-
After doing the above, my system became so sluggish it was almost impossible to use. The only way that I could get it back to normal was to uninstall WRSA and then reinstall it, so it is the last of the two installed or updated. I done that and my system is normal again.

[Triple Helix]

-{ Quote: "Hello,


After doing the above, my system became so sluggish it was almost impossible to use. The only way that I could get it back to normal was to uninstall WRSA and then reinstall it, so it is the last of the two installed or updated. I done that and my system is normal again." }-

Any info from WSA support?

TH

[puff-m-d]

They sent me a program to gather information and logs and upload the data to them. I done that earlier so I am waiting on Webroot's response. Also I done what Nick asked and am awaiting that reply from GFI.

[Triple Helix]

-{ Quote: "They sent me a program to gather information and logs and upload the data to them. I done that earlier so I am waiting on Webroot's response. Also I done what Nick asked and am awaiting that reply from GFI." }-

Good! ;)

Thanks,

TH

[NickHSunbelt]

Puff-m-d,

I missed the fact that you were sometimes seeing a BSOD when I first read your comment. If possible, I'd like to collect a minidump file that should have been created by the BSOD event from you as well. This should normally be located at C:\Windows\Minidump. You can send the file to me using the same site. This should hopefully give me a better idea of what specifically might be conflicting.

[puff-m-d]

Hi Nick,

Since my last install-install-uninstall-reinstall process yesterday, I have not had any more crashes/BSOD's. I inadvertently deleted the mini-dumps I had at that time as I have a cleaner program that deletes them and I was not paying attention. Sorry but if I have anymore I will send them to you.

Also, whether it makes any difference or not, when I prepared the logs to send to both Webroot and GFI, I made sure the two programs were in conflict and the hanging/sluggishness was happening as the logs were prepared.

[NickHSunbelt]

Kent, in that case, I'd like to try having you try a diagnostic startup of the system with only VIPRE and Webroot running.

To do this, click the Start button and on the search bar type msconfig then press Enter. Select the Diagnostic startup option. Now go to the Services tab and enable VIPRE's service. Also enable the WRSVC service which belongs to Webroot.

Next go to the Startup tab and enable the VIPRE and Webroot items here. After doing this, click OK. Allow the system to restart.

With this selective startup, do you continue to see the same issues?

[puff-m-d]

Hi Nick,

OK, will do, just give me some time. Since my system is basically inoperable with this conflict, I have to do the workaround of Removing and installing WRSA again to get mt system back to normal. Since I am in the "normal" state now, I have to remove both and start over. Also since there is no direct link to RC 5134, I must install the beta 2 first and then allow it to do the upgrade/install which takes more time also. I will work on this in between what I am doing and try to have the info by the end of the day. This is why it took me so long to reply back to you yesterday.

[NickHSunbelt]

Kent,

If it makes it easier, once you get into this state again, you can go into safe mode and setup the selective startup that way.

[PrevxHelp]

Could you also please send a log file to report@prevxresearch.com with "Joe" in the title so that I can directly take a look?

Thanks!

[puff-m-d]

Hi Joe,

Sent ;D ...

Thanks :thumb: ...

[Triple Helix]

Hi Joe,

For a test I will install VIPRE AV and I will send you a WSA scan log also!

Daniel ;)

[Triple Helix]

-{ Quote: "Could you also please send a log file to report@prevxresearch.com with "Joe" in the title so that I can directly take a look?

Thanks!" }-

Logs sent!

TH

[puff-m-d]

Hello Nick,

-{ Quote: "I'd like to try having you try a diagnostic startup of the system with only VIPRE and Webroot running.
With this selective startup, do you continue to see the same issues?" }-
I still have the same issues although they are not quite as severe this way. If I had to compare, I would say the issues with the selective startup were about 25 to 30 per cent less severe than before.

I HTH :thumb: .....

[NickHSunbelt]

Kent,

There are a couple other easy things we can try to attempt to narrow down the conflict. You can try disabling Active Protection in VIPRE and see if this prevents the issues. If that doesn't help, try disabling Email Protection and see if this makes a difference.

Since the selective startup didn't seem to completely prevent issues, I'd assume that this is likely a driver conflict between Webroot, VIPRE, and another software's drivers. Unless you happen to have another bluescreen that produces dump files, the best way to troubleshoot this would be to try temporarily uninstalling software to see if we can determine what exactly is conflicting.

If you'd like to try this, the software I would think most likely to be conflicting would be SpyShelter. I've also seen one complaint that Rollback Rx alongside VIPRE could cause a long boot time but this wasn't similar behavior to what you're seeing. However, it might be a good idea to try temporarily uninstalling this to see if it makes a difference.

A couple other programs I would suggest you try temporarily removing would be DU Meter and Process Hacker. While I've never seen any complaints of conflicts with this, they both use kernel mode drivers and these are always something I look for first when checking for conflicts.

If you're willing to try this, please let me know the results.

[scotsman]

Nick...

I'm using Vipre 2012 and SpyShelter and have experienced no conflicts. In Vipre, SpyShelter is always allowed...and in SpyShelter, Vipre allowed. However, with something else in the mix, this may not be the issue.

Regards,

scotsman

[puff-m-d]

Hello all,

I am not necessarily the best at explaining things, so let me try to explain this again. Prior to starting this thread, I went through a process where I did remove programs one by one looking for conflicts. This is how I narrowed it down to what I thought to be some conflict between WRSA and VIPRE. Removing any other programs have no effect to this problem. The problem is always there when both WRSA and VIPRE is installed AND VIPRE was the last to be installed or had a program update installed. IF WRSA is installed last, there is never a problem. The only program I could not verify was Rollback Rx because if I uninstall I lose all my snapshots and I have snapshots that I can not lose at the moment. I hope this makes it a bit more clear as what I had done before I even started this thread. I had done quite a bit of removing and installing of programs to get to the point of believing the conflict to be WRSA and VIPRE. I may be wrong, but it is only with these two programs installed in the way noted above that the problem occurs and the removal of any other software has had no effect.

My own personal opinion as what may be happening (and I may be wrong of course), has to do with the start-up scan that WRSA does on install. Whenever all works fine, it is always when WRSA was installed last and that means a start-up scan was done with the current VIPRE version installed. When things are in conflict, it is when VIPRE has been installed or program updated after the initial start-up scan by WRSA so hence the scan was done on a previous version. From what I see, this is the main difference in what is different in these two scenarios. I of course may be wrong but I think this start-up scan somehow figures into all of this on my system. Sorry if my rambling has taken a detour and I may be wrong, but I thought this main difference should be at least considered as I have done about everything else possible to troubleshoot this.

[Techfox1976]

I'm kind of curious about this myself. Have you gotten any response from webroot support?

[puff-m-d]

Hello,

I have heard some from Webroot.
On the 23rd I started this post and opened a ticket with Webroot.
On the 24th Webroot asked for me to gather some information and logs and send to them. I did that evening.
On the 25th Webroot acknowledged receipt of the logs and said they were examining them. Joe (PrevxHelp) asked for me to email him logs also. I sent him the logs later that evening.
On the 26th a tech at Webroot said he saw this thread and would be looking into the problem. He stated a couple of things he was going to look at (concerning program interactions and program multi-way interactions) and stated this process was ongoing. He also said it looked like I needed to do a check disk on my drive so I did.
As of this time, I have not heard anything back from Joe and Have not heard anything definitive from Webroot except for me to run the check disk, which found no errors and did not help.
So I guess I am in waiting mode for a reply. If I have to remove and install much more, I may just use the workaround I have for now and not worry about it. This process is losing me a lot of production time and the workaround does work. It would be nice to fix the problem though once and for all so I do not have to do the remove and install process.

[NickHSunbelt]

Kent,

I've tried reproducing this in several different ways and have not seen any issues running the two programs. This seems to be something specific to your system environment. Unfortunately, without something like a dump file to go on, the only thing I can suggest is trial and error troubleshooting, such as removing any additional software from the system until you no longer see the issue. Since you've already attempted this, there isn't much more I can suggest without additional data.

The only other thing I might suggest is what I mentioned in my previous post. You can try getting into this condition and disabling each feature in VIPRE and Webroot, one at a time, to see if you can narrow it down to something like the Active Protection or Email protection. However, even with this information, it still wouldn't be much easier to narrow down the cause of the conflict since this is such an odd issue.

[PrevxHelp]

Thanks for the help, NickHSunbelt!

puff-m-d: I have taken a look at the logs and I'm wondering if you could try changing the WSA firewall configuration to "Warn if any new, untrusted processes connect to the Internet if the computer is infected" (the second option) and then try rebooting. That may help clear up some of the issue, but please let me know your results!

[puff-m-d]

Hello Joe and Nick,

Joe, I tried your suggestion about changing the firewall setting. It seemed to make some difference but the basic problem remained.

Now for the interesting part... You having me change that firewall setting made me think. I thought I had removed all my programs one by one but I could not remember if I had removed my firewall for sure. So I went ahead and removed it which also required a reboot. Upon reboot, it seems the problem has gone away. The program is Windows 7 Firewall Control from Sphinx Software and removing it has also removed my problem.

Nick and Joe, thank you both for your help resolving this. It i9s just another example that sometimes conflicts are in the last thought of place. I would not have gotten to this point if it had not been for both of your help. Thank you both again...

[NickHSunbelt]

Kent, I'm glad to hear you were able to resolve the issue. Feel free to let me know if you run into any further trouble and I'll be happy to help.

[PrevxHelp]

Glad to hear you got it resolved, and thanks again to NickHSunbelt for the help! It's great to see other vendors helping users if conflicts arise rather than blindly saying: "the products are incompatible and you are forced to just use one AV" :thumb: