Your Opinion on P2P?

[dog]

Hi All, :)

Note* I know this is slightly political, but is based in the PC realm, so I hope it's OK. (if it's not ... please delete this thread)


1.Just wondering if you use P2P, if so which one, and why. If you don't use see next question.

2.I guess this is where it gets a little political ... What are your views on P2P?

3.And lastly ... Is it legal or illegal where your from.

**********************************************************
My Opinion;

I don't use P2P currently, nor have I in the past, and I don't think I'll change my opinion in the future.

It is legal in Canada ... as we pay a levy on ALL recordable media.

I guess my main reason for not using this service, is I still think it's thief, even though it is legal to D/L from P2P, but it is still illegal to upload / provide the content in Canada. In my mind ... the lost revenue caused by this service, only both increases prices and lowers the quality of the content. To comment on both ... I'm a music lover, my collection has cost me a small fortune and there's so much more I'd Like ... but if artist don't make money the don't make content either ... there seems to be a rash of Greatest hits CD's and Live albums on the market ... I think support that. As for the lower quality of content, just take a look a the video game industry ... all of the content is available in pirated form ... and now, the creative of this industry seem stifled ... all we get are .... sequals ....

I'm not say that these industries had nothing to do with the advent of P2P, if the priced their content more reasonable ... it wouldn't be such an issue.

I'm not saying P2P is right or wrong ... I think that's a personal decision. But I am curious to what others views are.

This isn't meant to start an arguement, ... just some intelligent discussion.


Thanks All. :)

dog - *puppy*

[bigc73542]

I don't think p2p is a very secure thing to use at all. It is legal here but it depends on what files you share. ;)

[dog]

-{ Quote: " It is legal here but it depends on what files you share. ;)" }-

LOL - ;D - You seem to have skirted nicely around the question! ~Wink~ Wink~ eh BigC ;D

dog - *puppy*

[bigc73542]

-{ Quote: "LOL - ;D - You seem to have skirted nicely around the question! ~Wink~ Wink~ eh BigC ;D

dog - *puppy*" }-
just a little diplomacy

[dog]

-{ Quote: "just a little diplomacy " }-

But I value your opinion ... care to share your thought's ... Please ... ;D

Man this Move thingy is going 'cause me some troubles ... I'm gonna need some meds to straighten me out! ;D LOL

dog - *puppy*

[Paranoid2000]

Usage

Have tried it but the lack of security is off-putting (not to mention P2P spammers trying to flood search results with pr0n). I would suggest Freenet (http://freenet.sourceforge.net/) for those looking for an anonymous, encrypted P2P network (but be sure that you are happy with the philosophy (http://freenet.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=faq) of Freenet first). However this article (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15808) does suggest some alternatives.

Views

Can be the only way to retrieve certain content (e.g. unreleased music tracks, some live performances, "old" TV episodes or Scientology's inner secrets (http://www.xenu.net/) (specifically their internal documents).

The current legal issues over P2P will play a key role in determining the future freedom of the Internet and present a crucial battleground for digital rights.

Legality

This depends on the content in question. What I find "interesting" is the attempt by certain US politicians (Orrin Hatch (http://hatch.senate.gov/) and Patrick Leahy (http://leahy.senate.gov/) specifically) to make all P2P illegal (http://www.theinquirer.net/Default.aspx?article=14999). I would urge any consistuents of these senators to take this matter up with them.

However this issue needs to be considered within the wider issues of copyright and morality. Copyright as it is now has been extended way beyond the intentions of its originators with the effect that it now benefits licencing corporations rather than the original creators. Morally, you are only harming a copyright holder if you download content which you would have paid for otherwise (habitual downloaders may have several gigabytes of MP3 tracks on their system which would cost thousands of dollars/pounds/euros/yen if purchased but that does not mean they would have spent that money if P2P was not available - so industry "claims" about losses are mostly wishful thinking).
-{ Quote: "In my mind ... the lost revenue caused by this service, only both increases prices and lowers the quality of the content." }-Sorry Dog, but you are assuming a benign and caring industry that sets prices at a bare minimum to cover their overheads. In reality, most of the music industry is greedy, rapacious and out to screw Joe Consumer for whatever they can get. To this extent, piracy acts as a price check - if the industry raises prices they know that volume sales will drop due to the P2P alternative. Without this alternative, they would pump prices to maximise profits while minimising effort.

You know why there are fewer new album releases? Because it is less effort to promote 100 albums than 1,000, the fixed costs (recording, mixing, etc) are less and economies of scale (inventory management, etc) of selling large numbers of a few items swells profits further. The record industry majors represent the worst of commerce, seeking to restrict our freedoms for their profit - if they had their way we would be paying by the minute to listen to their wares.

CDs should be priced at US$5 or less (physical cost of manufacture is around $0.50). DVDs (with their higher cost of manufacture and the cost of making a film versus a record album) can be purchased for US$10 or less making this price-gouging even more obvious.

[dog]

Hey Paranoid, :)

Thanks, ;) ... you certainly added a few points I missed in re: to content, like Garage Band etc. and provided us with many other insights. I agree with you on all your points. The following Quote ... I guess, I really had said with the Video Game Industry in mind. But your probably right, it's most likely is a result of increasing margins and profits, in regards to the music industry specifically. and maybe generally accross all industry. I'm not big into games, but it makes you wonder when you look at the E3 lineup of games ... there certainly is much new there.

-{ Quote: "In my mind ... the lost revenue caused by this service, only both increases prices and lowers the quality of the content. " }-

I also agree with you on the Music Industries claims about lost revenue ... the effect of D/L'd MP3 would not translate straight into loss sales ... it would only be a small percentage, maybe 10%. - in reference to your quote.

-{ Quote: "but that does not mean they would have spent that money if P2P was not available - so industry "claims" about losses are mostly wishful thinking " }-

I totally agree that we get fleeced at the check out ... and resolving this would put some of these issues to rest. But so far, I don't think P2P has resulted in a price check ... should the Industries lower margins and set lower prices ... it certainly will have accomplished this job.

-{ Quote: "I'm not say that these industries had nothing to do with the advent of P2P, if the priced their content more reasonably ... it wouldn't be such an issue." }-

I guess it all comes down to your morallity ...

This is a hard topic to discuss here (there are so many different levels to it), and I know this barely scratches the surface ... but it does makes you think ;)

Thanks again Paranoid, I really enjoyed reading your post ;D

dog - *puppy*

[bigc73542]

-{ Quote: "But I value your opinion ... care to share your thought's ... Please ... ;D

Man this Move thingy is going 'cause me some troubles ... I'm gonna need some meds to straighten me out! ;D LOL

dog - *puppy*" }-
I think that the malware you have a chance to be infected with is a real convincing argument to just leave p2p alone legal or not. In my shop I have had to clean out quite a few computers because of p2p use. I would rather not have a particular file if I had to use p2p to get it. This is my personal opinion derived from closeup experience of what useing p2p can do to a computer.

[dog]

Thanks BigC. :)

I agree ... all the latest malware, virus, worms etc. seem to be developed to propergate thru P2P as one of the main sources of delivery. ;) and should serve as a deterent, to uses of these services ... I have no first hand experience of this, my comment is only based on what I've read.

dog - *puppy*

Ps. Hey, BigC; I forgot you mentioned you did computer repairs as a business, ... now I have a trusted person to perform repairs, if I should need it ... I'll just FedEx it down ;) ... or maybe you could walk be thru by phone ... my new live support desk!!! ;D

[bigc73542]

-{ Quote: "Thanks BigC. :)

I agree ... all the latest malware, virus, worms etc. seem to be developed to propergate thru P2P as one of the main sources of delivery. ;) and should serve as a deterent, to uses of these services ... I have no first hand experience of this, my comment is only based on what I've read.

dog - *puppy*

Ps. Hey, BigC; I forgot you mentioned you did computer repairs as a business, ... now I have a trusted person to perform repairs, if I should need it ... I'll just FedEx it down ;) ... or maybe you could walk be thru by phone ... my new live support desk!!! ;D" }-
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)

[Paranoid2000]

-{ Quote: "I think that the malware you have a chance to be infected with is a real convincing argument to just leave p2p alone legal or not" }-I would agree that P2P users should consider themselves at increased risk and take extra measures accordingly. However P2P is not unique here, IRC and Usenet are also perilous areas for downloaders (as well as "warez" websites).

However, given the spread of browser hijackers I would suggest that there is no real "safe" part of the Internet anymore - even a webpage you know and trust could be maliciously altered to link to (or even include) a hijacker. This I would suggest is probably more prevalent than P2P-borne viruses...

[dog]

-{ Quote: "However, given the spread of browser hijackers I would suggest that there is no real "safe" part of the Internet anymore - even a webpage you know and trust could be maliciously altered to link to (or even include) a hijacker. This I would suggest is probably more prevalent than P2P-borne viruses..." }-

:'( Sadly very true! :'(

[bigc73542]

-{ Quote: "IRC and Usenet are also perilous areas for downloaders (as well as "warez" websites)." }-

That is why I don't use those either. I just can't see useing them when the chance is much higher of getting infected. You can definately get infected almost anywhere on the internet but why take intentional chances. I don't know about anyone else but I can't afford to have to get a new computer if it was to get really screwed up. I see at least one a month that is so badly infected that is is cheaper to start over. I have had two in the shop last year that a virus completely totaled the HDD burned the ram out and wiped the bios. There isn't a good reason to take chances like that unless you think you will never get infected. And we all know that is not likely.
But then again this is my personal opinion, anyone else is welcome to persue the type of surfing security they desire and are comfortable with.