AI Roboform 7.1.0 - Final

[AvinashR]

Roboform is the top-rated Password Manager asecurely stores online and offline passwords, automatically logs you into online accounts and completes online registration and checkout forms with one click. RoboForm is a push-button web form filler with some serious Artificial Intelligence (AI) inside. It allows you to define your personal profile or "usual" responses to a web form. This information is then saved, and when you need to fill a form, just click "Fill Forms" button, and form is filled out. Works as an add-on to Microsoft Internet Explorer, Mozilla, Firefox or Netscape web browsers.

RoboForm2Go works on USB Flash Drives. Plug your flash drive into any computer and enjoy all the benefits of RoboForm.
Install this version directly on your flash drive. Store and back up your RoboForm files on your Windows Mobile, Palm, or Symbian device. View and search RoboForm files. Includes full featured password generator.

Changes:-

* Add ability to add Logins to Most Popular, see Add To menu in Editor.
* Fix crashes in Chrome.
* Fix slowness and freezing in Fireofox 4 beta 7.
* Separate Bookmarks button on toolbar when Bookamrs are separate from Logins.
* New Help -> About dialog.
* Add Import to RoboForm menu.

Homepage:- http://www.roboform.com (http://www.roboform.com/)

Download:- --http://www.roboform.com/dist/AiRoboForm.exe--

[jmorlan]

Be advised that the upgrade to 7.1.0 from 6.10.1 pro version or earlier is not free.

http://www.roboform.com/php/pums/rfprepay.php?lic=upgrade_rf7&upgrade=yes

[AvinashR]

-{ Quote: "Be advised that the upgrade to 7.1.0 from 6.10.1 pro version or earlier is not free.

http://www.roboform.com/php/pums/rfprepay.php?lic=upgrade_rf7&upgrade=yes" }-

Thanks for the update. Its really bad to see that they are not providing free upgrades. :-[

[Woodgiant]

Thank you AvinashR for the information regarding the Roboform 7 update.:thumb: Just updated from version 6.10.1.Pro without any problems. Roboform the only toolbar that is allowed on my system.:)
Best Regards

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Thank you AvinashR for the information regarding the Roboform 7 update.:thumb: Just updated from version 6.10.1.Pro without any problems. Roboform the only toolbar that is allowed on my system.:)
Best Regards" }-
Check to see if it is still PRO or a free version?

[Woodgiant]

Hey King of Rapture
Ups what is going on here? I do not hope that it is Roboforms new style :-\

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=223837&stc=1&d=1291708819

Best Regards

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Hey King of Rapture
Ups what is going on here? I do not hope that it is Roboforms new style :-\

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=223837&stc=1&d=1291708819

Best Regards" }-
I have been using the beta version 7 for almost a year now. Last month, after installing a new beta version, I couldn't save any new passcards, identities or safenotes. So, when I checked it showed free version.

Sent them a support email. They told me that I have two options:

1. Pay $9.95 per year and keep the data in cloud and sync to as many devices I want to.

2. Or buy two new licenses for version 7 at a cost of $29.90, since I had two version 6 licenses.

I opted for option #2.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Hey King of Rapture
Ups what is going on here? I do not hope that it is Roboforms new style :-\

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=223837&stc=1&d=1291708819

Best Regards" }-
BTW, what program you used to take such a beautiful snapshot with speech bubble.

Kind regards,

KOR!

[Woodgiant]

Hey King of Rapture
It seems to me that your option 2 may also be my solution', but I truly don't like this new marketing-style that Roboform is showing >:(
Best Regards

[AvinashR]

-{ Quote: "BTW, what program you used to take such a beautiful snapshot with speech bubble.

Kind regards,

KOR!" }-

Yeah Snap Shot is really nice... Mind sharing with us.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Hey King of Rapture
It seems to me that your option 2 may also be my solution', but I truly don't like this new marketing-style that Roboform is showing >:(
Best Regards" }-
Agreed, it is a very terrible marketing style. However, I bought my two licenses, about ten years ago!

[Woodgiant]

-{ Quote: "Agreed, it is a very terrible marketing style. However, I bought my two licenses, about ten years ago!" }-
Hey King of Rapture
I can see your point..:)
I have used Snagit 10, and I can see that I have posted it twice :blink:
Best Regards to all

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Hey King of Rapture
I can see your point..:)" }-
BTW, one can still go back to version 6 and it will show PRO. I am not sure for how long they will keep on updating the browsers plug-ins.

But it is time to contribute to some development.... :)

-{ Quote: "
I have used Snagit 10, and I can see that I have posted it twice :blink:
Best Regards to all" }-
Nice, but very expensiveeeeee.......

Best regards,

KOR!

[Tony]

Looks like its goodbye to Roboform for me, i find it works ok with firefox and IE but is still terribly buggy with Chrome.
The Android version is not very good and still way behind on Opera.

I have been trialling Lastpass and i am very impressed with it up to now, works great with the latest Opera beta.
If it works as well with Android then i will deffo be getting a premium license.

[Hugger]

Does either Lastpass or Keepass work like Roboform in the following way-I click on Logins, Click on Wilders and it takes me to the Wilders site and logs me in with no further interaction of any kind from me?
Thanks for any info on this.
Hugger

[mick92z]

Personally, I think this is disgusting. I purchased R.F 6.10 about a month ago, now , it looks like, no more updates. So what happens if a security hole is found. Will it be patched . I f I'd known I would have waited and bought version 7 :thumbd:

[Bambo]

On Bitsdujour they said that upgrades are free for those who bought Roboform after November 1. http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/roboform-pro/

-{ Quote: "However, I want to inform everyone that purchased on or after November 1, 2010 that they will be able to convert their v6 licenses to either v7 Pro or v7 Everywhere 1:1 for *no charge*. " }-

Hopefully ordering system is perfect because I doubt many have a clue of their "rights" when it comes to Roboform licensing. This quote was from comment section.

I also have a problem with that since I am 99% sure I have seen them say 90 days. Perhaps on Facebook or Twitter. Can´t find it now but there is a reason some have found Google Cache links to communicate with Roboform. New definition of what lifetime means and all. Either they are stupid or simply have so many customers they can´t be bothered to make this change smooth. Absolute last thing they figure out is pricing? More likely the first! But with no balls to explain facts they try to make everything an offer with additional discounts. I have followed their Twitter beeps last few months. Was it not a nice solid program they might as well have been selling a scam. Yeah, yeah we will put up a page explaining conditions etc. Not like they started busniness last week.

There is a bit of a problem for those who bought licenses may be 4-6 months ago. A bit steep having to pay up for an upgrade you only heard about few weeks ago. I think they should give free upgrades going back at least 1 year - or have a more flexible discount system. Oldtimer users of 5.x or not so young 6.x versions probably could not care less and find everything reasonable :)

[jmorlan]

Interesting take on this issue by Stefan Fintea on Softpedia.

How Not to Change a Licensing Model (http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-Not-To-Change-A-Licensing-Model-171188.shtml)

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Interesting take on this issue by Stefan Fintea on Softpedia.

How Not to Change a Licensing Model (http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-Not-To-Change-A-Licensing-Model-171188.shtml)" }-
http://web.archive.org/web/20080822215550/www.roboform.com/why-pro.html

Maybe, a class action is justified!

[SiberSystems]

Please see below my response to the Softpedia article mentioned. As of right now the comment is not showing up on the their site:

--------------
Stefan is correct that we just did a soft launch of RoboForm 7 on Monday evening (ie 3 days ago). We are still obviously implementing upgrade messaging and processes and our site will continue to reflect numerous changes. I apologize for any confusion.

However, I want to inform everyone that purchased on or after September 1, 2010 that they will will have the option of upgrading to v7 Pro desktop OR a free year of v7 Everywhere free of charge. Each v6 license can be converted 1:1.

So if you got 3 v6 Pro desktop licenses after Sep 1, you may convert to 3 first year licenses of v7 Everywhere or 3 v7 Pro Desktop licenses by contacting support at any time: http://support.roboform.com

Here are the primary differences between the two products: http://www.roboform.com/how-it-works/product-comparison

To reiterate, we are still in soft launch mode so things may change, however I wanted to assure users that purchased recently of our v7 free upgrade policy. We will be contacting users who purchased recently separately via email as well in the coming days.

We have also just updated our FAQ to reflect the new policy: http://www.roboform.com/support/faq/roboform#faq_everywhere. Readers may email me at sdavis@siber.com for any additional info on RoboForm 7.

-Simon Davis
Marketing Manager / Siber Systems
--------------

[Woodgiant]

-{ Quote: "Please see below my response to the Softpedia article mentioned. As of right now the comment is not showing up on the their site:

--------------
Stefan is correct that we just did a soft launch of RoboForm 7 on Monday evening (ie 3 days ago). We are still obviously implementing upgrade messaging and processes and our site will continue to reflect numerous changes. I apologize for any confusion.

-Simon Davis
Marketing Manager / Siber Systems
--------------" }-
Hello Roboform
In my line of business when a new product is going to be introduced to new costomers is a golden rule that we do not launch new products before a marketing stategi is in place which takes account of old customers and news.
The old customers is your foundation.
Roboform are doing everything backwards, launch new product and then afterwards damagecontrol to its customers. That is not professionel management, and give a bad impression of Roboform.
Best Regards

[SiberSystems]

This is a concern our marketing team had as well which was conveyed to management. The primary focus of all efforts was on improving UI and adding features. We anticipate that all site info will be accurate and up-to-date in the next week or so.

Please keep in mind that the new licensing model was made primarily with user feedback in mind. 10 years ago when we started it was common to have many users on a single desktop-so it made sense to license by computer. Nowadays we see the reverse with users that have multiple desktops, USB, and mobile devices. Hence why we introduced a per user service model in addition to what we had.

[SIR****TMG]

Ok I updated mine to Pro again.

[crofttk]

All I know is I paid a total of $75.31 for 3 Roboform Pro and 2 Roboform Portable licenses 5 years ago, was assured of free upgrades, and now Siber Systems wants $79.75 to upgrade those licenses??? WTH?

Alternatively, I guess I can replace those with 5 per user Everywhere licenses for $49.75 good for only one year and then it's double that for further years??? LOL. Granted, I wouldn't need 5 Everywhere licenses.

I don't have 5 users but do have 3 machines and a couple of flash drives I use portable on. Furthermore, although I might be happy with a couple of Everywhere licenses (in case another user besides me comes online), I like things fine without passwords on a server other than the login provider's.

Not really thrilled with the choices here so I guess I should go research alternative programs once I feel my 6.10.1 versions are too out of date.>:(

Unless things change as the launch "hardens".

I'm not going to argue the economics and what kind of business model supports how much development. I just don't feel taken care of in this transition, where I might not complain to pay like $5 or $6 per license to keep my product up to date after a 5 year period.

FWIW, I won't pay $80 to fix what isn't broken and once I feel the existing licenses have outlived their usefulness, then all bets are off. Perhaps RoboForm will still make my cut at that time, who knows?

[Bambo]

Well you better not test 7 too much if not sure of agreeing to conditions. Much is the same of course but overall way better and more usable program. Which just make this messed up string of marketing events more annoying. With a bit more relaxed update policy for up to at least 1 year old licenses I don´t think there would be as much to complain about. Considering they definitely have used "lifetime" as a feature and many seem to be stuck on that promise may be it should be 2 years. Those 60 days will not do it.

People are different but I would not be annoyed if I had gotten free updates and support for 5 years and now times/program have changed so much I need to pay up again. Loss of "lifetime" promise is easier to accept with such old licenses I would think. Matter of what you consider reasonable of course. Lifetime we now know what means :)

[crofttk]

-{ Quote: "Well you better not test 7 too much if not sure of agreeing to conditions. Much is the same of course but overall way better and more usable program. Which just make this messed up string of marketing events more annoying. With a bit more relaxed update policy for up to at least 1 year old licenses I don´t think there would be as much to complain about. Considering they definitely have used "lifetime" as a feature and many seem to be stuck on that promise may be it should be 2 years. Those 60 days will not do it.

People are different but I would not be annoyed if I had gotten free updates and support for 5 years and now times/program have changed so much I need to pay up again. Loss of "lifetime" promise is easier to accept with such old licenses I would think. Matter of what you consider reasonable of course. Lifetime we now know what means :)" }-Never said I'm testing 7 and never will unless I upgrade. Point is, $50 more than I am willing to pay at this time is enough of an obstacle to induce me to consider many credible alternatives including free ones for which there is no lack of advocates here at Wilders. Times have indeed changed, for many of us, but on both edges of the sword.

[Nozavi]

-{ Quote: "Please see below my response to the Softpedia article mentioned. As of right now the comment is not showing up on the their site:

--------------
Stefan is correct that we just did a soft launch of RoboForm 7 on Monday evening (ie 3 days ago). We are still obviously implementing upgrade messaging and processes and our site will continue to reflect numerous changes. I apologize for any confusion.

However, I want to inform everyone that purchased on or after September 1, 2010 that they will will have the option of upgrading to v7 Pro desktop OR a free year of v7 Everywhere free of charge. Each v6 license can be converted 1:1.

So if you got 3 v6 Pro desktop licenses after Sep 1, you may convert to 3 first year licenses of v7 Everywhere or 3 v7 Pro Desktop licenses by contacting support at any time: http://support.roboform.com

Here are the primary differences between the two products: http://www.roboform.com/how-it-works/product-comparison

To reiterate, we are still in soft launch mode so things may change, however I wanted to assure users that purchased recently of our v7 free upgrade policy. We will be contacting users who purchased recently separately via email as well in the coming days.

We have also just updated our FAQ to reflect the new policy: http://www.roboform.com/support/faq/roboform#faq_everywhere. Readers may email me at sdavis@siber.com for any additional info on RoboForm 7.

-Simon Davis
Marketing Manager / Siber Systems
--------------" }-
Man, you've got to love these marketing tricks...
On the comparison page, it says you pay the 30 bucks just this once. So, any average Joe who doesn't look close enough will think Hey, I'm gonna pay 30$ once for this great password manager? Deal!
What he's surely going to miss or misunderstand is the "Free Major Upgrades" part. He doesn't realize that if you guys release version 8 next year, he just paid 30$ for... 6 months. Heck, even Lastpass offers a better deal...
Of course, the above example is somewhat of an exaggeration to prove a point, because you probably won't be releasing version 8 in a few months, but the facts remain the same:
- You CANNOT expect people to pay $50 (or more) to use a program for 4 or 5 months (because that's what you’re asking from any person who purchased Roboform in August, July, June etc 2010) and let's not get into talking how most users thought they were buying a lifetime license...
- If this happened with version 7, it means it will surely happen with the next major version... (that is, people paying almost twice as much for Roboform)
- You CANNOT expect MOST people to adopt this Everywhere concept. I'm sure a lot of people use Roboform on their workstation/laptop and a license or two will suffice; a yearly subscription surely doesn't justify itself... (In my personal opinion, you guys still don’t have what it takes to compete with Lastpass from the yearly subscription point of view, but that’s just my take on this)
Later today I’ll also post a more polished version of this post as a reply to your comment/my article on Softpedia, since a lot of people had their say there too.

[buckshee]

I am using Version 6.10 and it is working just fine for me. Until I absolutely have to upgrade I wont - although I will keep an eye on http://www.bitsdujour.com/ as Roboform often has 50% off deals there. If your current system works -why sweat. If you don't upgrade your browser to a new major release you'll probably be fine

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "This is a concern our marketing team had as well which was conveyed to management. The primary focus of all efforts was on improving UI and adding features. We anticipate that all site info will be accurate and up-to-date in the next week or so.

Please keep in mind that the new licensing model was made primarily with user feedback in mind. 10 years ago when we started it was common to have many users on a single desktop-so it made sense to license by computer. Nowadays we see the reverse with users that have multiple desktops, USB, and mobile devices. Hence why we introduced a per user service model in addition to what we had." }-
You are acting that personally you are not management and just marketing. And, you are showing a rift within the management. The beta testing of version 7 was going on for almost a year and you had enough time to make marketing decision and let your customers know according.

The reason you have left it so soft is because based on customer's reaction, you can change things a little a time to pacify. This is very dangerous, will leave everyone unhappy and might damage your reputation beyond repair.

So, here are my suggestions and need to be implemented as soon as possible.

1. Owners of RoboForm Desktop version 6 should be given free lifetime upgrades, this is not only your legal liability but also your moral responsibility.

Anyone, who upgraded to version 7 under duress like myself, their money should be refunded. I had no choice but to upgrade as there is no plugin for the latest Firefox version 4b7 for the RoboForm Desktop version 6 users. But this only provided to RoboForm Desktop version 7 users. So, in a month or two when the latest version 4 of Firefox is released, the RoboForm Desktop version 6 users will be left high and dry.

2. Anyone who decided to use your cloud service, you are welcome to charge what the market bears. You are under no legal or moral liability, to provide this service free to anyone.

3. People who started with RoboForm Desktop version 7, they should be given free lifetime upgrades too. However, in future if you want to sell your RoboForm Desktop version to new customers without giving them free lifetime upgrades, then you are entitled to do so. But you are under moral responsibility not to change your policy overnight. AnyDVD gave six months warning to their future customers, that if they purchase within the six months warning period, they are still entitled to free lifetime upgrades. After that the company will no longer sell free lifetime upgrades to future customers.

This is my 2 cents. And, if you are not management, you are the one doing the damage control and in the end the stuff flows downhill. If I was you, I will take out my CV and start dusting it off. Or, should I say resume!

Sorry, to be this harsh!

[Ed_H]

I did the upgrade not realizing there was a fee and now I read this thread and what a disappointment from Siber Systems! And it still is very buggy with Chrome. I will revert back to v6.10 and keep using it or switch to something else.

[mick92z]

-{ Quote: " If you don't upgrade your browser to a new major release you'll probably be fine" }-

So if your browser has a critical security hole in it, your not going to update it :blink:

I bought my license mid October. I emailed Roboform yesterday. Today I was amazed, as I had a reply, saying to download version 7 and activate it with my original order number. So they have allowed me a free upgrade. To say, I am pleased about this, is a massive understatement.
I don't think R.F thought this through very well, It's not been handled very well. Many people will automatically upgrade from 6 to 7, not realising it reverts to the free version. Whether they will need to contact R.F or not, is not clear.

[SiberSystems]

-{ Quote: "Many people will automatically upgrade from 6 to 7, not realising it reverts to the free version. Whether they will need to contact R.F or not, is not clear." }-

Thanks for the feedback.

Please note we are emailing users early next week either on Monday or Tuesday to inform them of the free upgrade policy and provide an automated method for upgrading the license.

[Hugger]

Years ago, when I first started to try to really learn something about security and the web, I bought a lifetime license from RF.
A little more than 2 years ago I got rid of my old pc and built a new one for my wife.
Rather than rip off RF by just using my old license on the new pc I paid again for a lifetime license.
I felt that I was doing the next right thing despite living on a fixed income.
I don't see me even being able to afford to do this again. Not even sure I want to anymore.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Hugger

[silver0066]

-{ Quote: "Thanks for the feedback.

Please note we are emailing users early next week either on Monday or Tuesday to inform them of the free upgrade policy and provide an automated method for upgrading the license." }-

Does that mean you are changing the policy and people who purchased Roboform 6 Pro Lifetime will get a free upgrade?

[silver0066]

What is your policy in a situation where I buy a new computer and retire the one where I have purchased a v7 Pro license?

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Does that mean you are changing the policy and people who purchased Roboform 6 Pro Lifetime will get a free upgrade?" }-
Excellent question, though I will slightly re-word it.

Does that mean you are complying with the policy and people who purchased Roboform 6 Pro Lifetime will get a free upgrade?


-{ Quote: "What is your policy in a situation where I buy a new computer and retire the one where I have purchased a v7 Pro license?" }-
Do you trust their word anymore. They will promise you everything to sell you the version 7 now. And, in future they will not keep their promise!

Best regards,

KOR!

[Bambo]

There are no problems upgrading computer or moving license but you might have to check FAQ

Q: I lost my RoboForm Pro status because of Windows reinstall. How do I get it back?
A: Use our Pro Activator. It will ask you for your Name and Order ID or E-mail or Zip/Post Code. Upon finding you in the database the system will perform activation of RoboForm Pro on your computer.

Pro Activator is the page you activate on http://www.roboform.com/php/pums/pums_usrlogfrm.php?lang=en If no go you send them a msg. with required info and they reset code. They use a ticket system, very professional and with few problems for customers :)

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "There are no problems upgrading computer or moving license but you might have to check FAQ

Q: I lost my RoboForm Pro status because of Windows reinstall. How do I get it back?
A: Use our Pro Activator. It will ask you for your Name and Order ID or E-mail or Zip/Post Code. Upon finding you in the database the system will perform activation of RoboForm Pro on your computer.

Pro Activator is the page you activate on http://www.roboform.com/php/pums/pums_usrlogfrm.php?lang=en If no go you send them a msg. with required info and they reset code. They use a ticket system, very professional and with few problems for customers :)" }-
And, which version your are talking about. Version 6 or 7?

[Bambo]

Both. As of today there are no mention of changes regarding reset of licenses, not according to the FAQ at least.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Both. As of today there are no mention of changes regarding reset of licenses, not according to the FAQ at least." }-
So, you were provided a free upgrade to version 7 from version 6 as per their free lifetime upgrade policy?

[Bambo]

No but if I lose codes, have to reregister Roboform because of new computer/Windows that should not be a problem. Is answer to Silver0066 question, "What is your policy in a situation where I buy a new computer and retire the one where I have purchased a v7 Pro license?" Not really related to upgrade policy. I guess they could add something like max. 2 resets or account is closed for ever just to annoy people - better not give them any ideas.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "No but if I lose codes, have to reregister Roboform because of new computer/Windows that should not be a problem. Is answer to Silver0066 question, "What is your policy in a situation where I buy a new computer and retire the one where I have purchased a v7 Pro license?" Not really related to upgrade policy. I guess they could add something like max. 2 resets or account is closed for ever just to annoy people - better not give them any ideas." }-
When they sold version 6, they promised everyone free lifetime upgrades. Can they be trusted now regarding anything or any policy matters?

[Bambo]

Time will tell but I don't believe keep using version 6 is a valid solution for all - even if they say it will be made compatible with latest browsers. Do they btw.? First of all it blows compared to 7 and secondly I wonder about their interest ;) I think there will be a "no one forces you to use Firefox 4 or IE9" situation sooner than later.

Anyway there are different complaints about same issue. Some want year old licenses to be free for ever, includes version 8, 9 etc. and others like me want a more gracious policy for those with 6.x licenses. Free 7 upgrade going back min. 1 year. Effective damage control since most in that segment will find change very strange if not questionable. For older licenses I think joy over better program put out most of the fire.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Time will tell but I don't believe keep using version 6 is a valid solution for all - even if they say it will be made compatible with latest browsers. Do they btw.? First of all it blows compared to 7 and secondly I wonder about their interest ;) I think there will be a "no one forces you to use Firefox 4 or IE9" situation sooner than later.

Anyway there are different complaints about same issue. Some want year old licenses to be free for ever, includes version 8, 9 etc. and others like me want a more gracious policy for those with 6.x licenses. Free 7 upgrade going back min. 1 year. Effective damage control since most in that segment will find change very strange if not questionable. For older licenses I think joy over better program put out most of the fire." }-
I have purchased 2 licenses for version 6. I have paid them for 2 licenses for version 7. What I resent the way they are going about it. They have lost all their credibility.

Kind regards,

KOR!


BTW, free upgrades were not promised for version 6 only. But rather lifetime free upgrades, which means any new versions.

[Bambo]

Yes it is amateur work for sure. Also why I have not and will not pay for upgrade. Make current licenses pretty much useless but too bad. When I noticed they kept selling 6.x licenses while not having a clear upgrade policy Roboform lost it with me. Version 7 and new feature list has been under way for many months. Transition is too strict for some customers besides being poorly communicated.

[SIR****TMG]

Bought my first license in 2003 lifetime renew and updates. In oct. of this year 2010 I bought another license. When I renewed to ver. 7 , I was charged for both on my credit card. Is this correct? I like the product but don't want ripped off either.

[Bambo]

Apparently you were screwed:

Q: I recently purchased v6 and I would like to upgrade to RoboForm 7. Do I have to purchase another license?
A: For a limited time, we are offering customers who purchased v6 Pro on or after September 1, 2010 the opportunity to upgrade to those licenses to RoboForm 7 free of charge. Contact Support (http://support.roboform.com/php/rtss/main) to claim your free upgrade.

But I guess last sentence mean you must contact Roboform and claim upgrade. Perhaps not implemented in ordering system.

[silver0066]

-{ Quote: "Excellent question, though I will slightly re-word it.

Does that mean you are complying with the policy and people who purchased Roboform 6 Pro Lifetime will get a free upgrade?



Do you trust their word anymore. They will promise you everything to sell you the version 7 now. And, in future they will not keep their promise!

Best regards,

KOR!" }-

It doesn't matter now. I switched to LastPass and like it much better. Plus, I will never trust or buy anything from SiberSystems again. ~ Snipped as per TOS (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/faq.php?faq=wilders_tos#faq_wilders_tos_1) ~

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "It doesn't matter now. I switched to LastPass and like it much better. Plus, I will never trust or buy anything from SiberSystems again. ~ Snipped as per TOS (http://www.wilderssecurity.comn/faq.php?faq=wilders_tos#faq_wilders_tos_1) ~" }-
I have been using XMarks to sync bookmarks between computers and browsers. It also syncs passwords stored in the browsers too. I didn't use this feature due to security reasons.

Now, LastPass has acquired XMarks, so the combination of both LastPass and XMarks most probably will become the choice for many RoboForm users.

Kind regards,

KOR!

[littlebits]

-{ Quote: "I did the upgrade not realizing there was a fee and now I read this thread and what a disappointment from Siber Systems! And it still is very buggy with Chrome. I will revert back to v6.10 and keep using it or switch to something else." }-

I also did an upgrade not knowing it wasn't a free upgrade, I bought both Roboform and GoodSync and use Roboforum online to keep my info.

v.7.1 didn't even come with a link on the toolbar to sync with GoodSync, it used its own built-in synchronization. I had to manually configure it to use GoodSync. After test drive, I realized there was no benefit to upgrade to v.7.1 since v.6.10 and GoodSync worked very well together and was already configured. And since I have already bought both of them, there is no need to pay more money for what I don't need. So I'm back to v.6.10 and GoodSync. I will continue to use them until I have to change, but I will never buy another product from Siber System again...

Lastpass looks very interesting- http://lastpass.com/features_compare.php (no limitations in free version just ads), I just dread moving everything over to it but since I have GoodSync, I can access my info very easy.

Thanks.:)

[Woodgiant]

Hello King of Rapture
I totally agree with you that LastPass and XMarks most probably will become the choice for many RoboForm users:thumb: .
On the bacis what has occurred lately with Roboforms lack of business ethics
to its customers I have switched to Last Pass; which is now running fine on my family 4 laptops . :)
And I know that my current company also is switching to Last Pass partly because of the lack of professionalism and the suddenly switch on License Terms
Best Regards.

l

[King of Rapture]

Hi WoodGaint,

I made the mistake by buying the 2 licenses for the version 7 again. I am pretty sure that RoboForm has done proper study, before they took the decision to riff-off their customers. How many will buy the new license? How many people will buy the new license and make noises? How many people will move to different solutions? How many people will leave now and come back later?

Basically, the decision was not made lightly and they had ample time to study the market and the impact on the market. They are right now keeping a very low profile. Mr. SiberSystems is no where to be seen.

Kind regards,

KOR!

Maybe, a class action should be considered by the version 6 customers!

[Woodgiant]

+1:thumb: :thumb: :) You have said it all, I rest my case for now. Have a good Sunday.
Best Regards.

[SIR****TMG]

Wow they refunded my money back and upgraded to ver.7 here. They were fast to answer my email question . I also bought the use anywhere license for 9.95. I'm happy with that indeed.....;D

[jasonhat]

-{ Quote: "
I totally agree with you that LastPass and XMarks most probably will become the choice for many RoboForm users" }-

You can get LastPass plus 10 other apps as part of the BitsDuJour bundle which is on right now:

http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/the-bitsdujour-bundle

[ellison64]

Over the years ive actually bought 4 licences mostly due to activations.However looking at the upgrade to version 7 it mentions a yearly subscription.Whats that all about?.Will the program stop functioning if i decided not to continue subscription?
I noticed when i select upgrade it auto selects the version 7 anywhere for me which is subscription.Id prefer to upgrade to 7 pro for 9.95
tia
ellison

[buckshee]

Ellison64

I believe the following is correct

If you buy the Roboform Everywhere you pay a yearly subscription and it works like LastPass where your Passwords etc are at the Roboform web site and you log in to your account so you could do that from any number of computers and anywhere in the world. They have the first year at discounted price right now.
You can still buy the `traditional' Roboform 7 either as a desktop or USB and that isn't subscription so it will work all the time and not expire.

[ellison64]

-{ Quote: "Ellison64

I believe the following is correct

If you buy the Roboform Everywhere you pay a yearly subscription and it works like LastPass where your Passwords etc are at the Roboform web site and you log in to your account so you could do that from any number of computers and anywhere in the world. They have the first year at discounted price right now.
You can still buy the `traditional' Roboform 7 either as a desktop or USB and that isn't subscription so it will work all the time and not expire." }-

Yes i think you are correct.Its a bit of a cheek in my opinion though.They should offer the upgrade for the pro at the $9.95 too ,for those that dont want "in the cloud" password retrival.When you click to upgrade ,it defaults to that choice for you,when in my opinion it should default to the 6 pro upgrade which should be 7 pro.
Anyway thanks
ellison

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Ellison64

I believe the following is correct

If you buy the Roboform Everywhere you pay a yearly subscription and it works like LastPass where your Passwords etc are at the Roboform web site and you log in to your account so you could do that from any number of computers and anywhere in the world. They have the first year at discounted price right now.
You can still buy the `traditional' Roboform 7 either as a desktop or USB and that isn't subscription so it will work all the time and not expire." }-
I believe you will still have the desktop, which will sync through cloud between different devices. Also, your data will be available in cloud. However, if you don't pay again after one year, it will revert back to Free from PRO. In this case again, you will not be able to save new data, but will be able to use all your past data.

One of the main difference between version 6 and version 7 is that the new version allows saving passcards for Windows Programs, such as Microsoft Office, Quicken, or any other Windows Programs which require password. Where as, LastPass doesn't have the facility yet for Windows Programs.

I could be wrong!

[wideglide36]

I'm a little confused too.

I purchased Roboform Pro a couple years ago and I had a couple questions.

I just recently purchased the Everywhere version for $9.95 and when I check my version status inside the Roboform program, it say version 7 Everywhere, but it also says Roboform Pro.

What happens in a year from now if I don't want to purchase the Everywhere version? Do I still retain Roboform Pro V7 or do I need to go back to the 6 version of Roboform Pro?

Very confusing.

Also, since I purchased the Pro version 6 a couple years ago, am I supposed to be entitled to a free upgrade to version 7?

I'm really confused...........................

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "I'm a little confused too.

I purchased Roboform Pro a couple years ago and I had a couple questions.

I just recently purchased the Everywhere version for $9.95 and when I check my version status inside the Roboform program, it say version 7 Everywhere, but it also says Roboform Pro." }-
You just confirmed my above post #59.

-{ Quote: "
What happens in a year from now if I don't want to purchase the Everywhere version? Do I still retain Roboform Pro V7 or do I need to go back to the 6 version of Roboform Pro?" }-
It will revert to Free version 7, you will be able to use your data, but you will not be able to save new data (passcards, safenotes ......)

-{ Quote: "
Also, since I purchased the Pro version 6 a couple years ago, am I supposed to be entitled to a free upgrade to version 7?

I'm really confused..........................." }-
No, you are not! They lied to you. They are not like SlySoft and keep their words.

What can you do, sue them?

[wideglide36]

KOR,

Thanks for responding.

Think I'll pass on the law suit.

Any way to revert back to Pro version 6 when the year is up?

Thanks

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "KOR,

Thanks for responding.

Think I'll pass on the law suit.

Any way to revert back to Pro version 6 when the year is up?

Thanks" }-
RoboForm is useless without the browser plugins. They are no longer supporting new browser plugins for version 6.

Kind regards,

KOR!

[ellison64]

I really need to bite the bullet and leave roboform for good.I emailed support and asked why i couldnt upgrade to 7 pro for the same price as a 7 everywhere... a reasonable request considering ive purchased 4 supposedly lifetime licences over the years.All i got back from them as a reply was a link to 7 pro upgrade in my own currency in pounds with the same upgrade price !!.No answer to my questions at all.Pretty pathetic in my opinion.Its no wonder mr sibersystems doesnt feel like posting here too much.How can you defend crap customer care like that?.
ellison

[Woodgiant]

-{ Quote: "I really need to bite the bullet and leave roboform for good." }-

Yes, as stated in my earlier Post in this thread, I really think that Roboform are taking the customers as hostages. I cannot see what the are gaining with such a policy,or the lack of the same.
Best Regards:)

[Nozavi]

Well, things are not getting any prettier ::) I've just posted an update to my article regarding the way Siber S handles its 'free upgrades' policy

http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-Not-To-Change-A-Licensing-Model-171188.shtml

Really disappointing and unprofessional :thumbd:

[Bambo]

They should have kept 7 a simple update/upgrade mainly focused on support for new browsers, technical improvements like getting rid of Goodsync and no change in license. Taking care of program logins (which probably will be major feature soon), Everywhere and more additional stuff should be exclusive for a new product they don't have to bend over to get paid for. Most current customers would understand more features can't be free for eternity and they still get what they paid for so not really much to complain about. Only problem might be if they lowered price for this Roboform Basic, Lastpass level would be good. Naturally there should be discounts for upgrading to Roboform deluxe :)

They would also have a better product for those who are overwhelmed by too many features.

[forty]

This just forced me to do something I been putting off. It took about 5 min. to covert all my info. to LastPass. (seamless) I am officially roboform free for the first time in years.Don't see any reason to look back!

[ellison64]

My blood is slowly starting to boil with the ridiculous answers i am recieveing from support to a question i put to them.The question was quite simple...
Why cant i upgrade roboform 6 pro to roboform 7 pro for $9.95 which is what an upgrade to the subscription based roboform everywhere would cost.

The two replies i recieved back were...
1."Please note that $9.95 is an upgrade price for the first order and the other ones will cost only $9.95"
2."RoboForm Everywhere license is an annual subscription. RoboForm v7 license is valid for all updates within version 7".

Is roboform customer care automated with bots? that fail to understand a simple question,or is my question just too hard for them to understand and answer?
ellison

[Ed_H]

Even though I prefer Roboform (with Firefox) I have made the transition to LastPass and it was pretty painless. Lastpass also works much better with Chrome and also has a working browser plugin for Android smartphones.

Good to move away from companies that don't treat their customers properly. It's the only way we can let them know they screwed up.

[buckshee]

I would love to move away from Roboform but unfortunately I find it the best at handling logins. I tried LastPass but at a few sites (mainly banking & Credit Card) it didn't register the login. Same thing with Sticky Password (where I even tried adding the login manually) and Password Depot 5 as well so though I hate paying the $19.95 upgrade price to the Pro version I may have to do that if I upgrade my browser. I even tried Opera but it stumbled over the same sites as LastPass and all the others.
It seems that all these programs (except Roboform) choke when I go to a site where I enter an account number such as credit card or bank account number then have to hit`Enter' which then brings me to a second page where I enter the password.
If Account login and Password are on the same page they all work fine. Very frustrating. So be careful before you jump ship

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "I would love to move away from Roboform but unfortunately I find it the best at handling logins. I tried LastPass but at a few sites (mainly banking & Credit Card) it didn't register the login. Same thing with Sticky Password (where I even tried adding the login manually) and Password Depot 5 as well so though I hate paying the $19.95 upgrade price to the Pro version I may have to do that if I upgrade my browser. I even tried Opera but it stumbled over the same sites as LastPass and all the others.
It seems that all these programs (except Roboform) choke when I go to a site where I enter an account number such as credit card or bank account number then have to hit`Enter' which then brings me to a second page where I enter the password.
If Account login and Password are on the same page they all work fine. Very frustrating. So be careful before you jump ship" }-
I am a paid customer of RoboForm, Sticky Password and Password Depot 5. I find both Sticky Password and Password Depot 5 to be much superior handling logins at Banks, where the process is two stages such as Bank of America.

The one stage forced process had me locked out and I had to call a toll-free number to re-set my password.

[King of Rapture]

BTW, just tired RoboForm on Bank of America, and the one stage password process doesn't work. In fact, RoboForm is worst when one has multiple passwords for the family (wife and children).

[buckshee]

-{ Quote: "I am a paid customer of RoboForm, Sticky Password and Password Depot 5. I find both Sticky Password and Password Depot 5 to be much superior handling logins at Banks, where the process is two stages such as Bank of America.." }-

Now that's weird. I have problems logging in to my MasterCard account, ING Direct (Banking) and 407ETR (toll Road account) - All only want to save the second page of the login process and not the UserID etc on the first page. Only Roboform handles both.

Now I'm wondering, could it be that I have Roboform and LastPass (or Sticky Password) installed at the same time ?
I login with Roboform and capture the login with LastPass or SP (whichever I have installed at the time). Maybe I should try uninstalling Roboform and just have one program installed

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Now that's weird. I have problems logging in to my MasterCard account, ING Direct (Banking) and 407ETR (toll Road account) - All only want to save the second page of the login process and not the UserID etc on the first page. Only Roboform handles both.

Now I'm wondering, could it be that I have Roboform and LastPass (or Sticky Password) installed at the same time ?
I login with Roboform and capture the login with LastPass or SP (whichever I have installed at the time). Maybe I should try uninstalling Roboform and just have one program installed" }-
BTW, do you have the latest version of Sticky Password, which is version 5.

If you have just one login, then it is the Sticky Password is doing the job automatically without you knowing it.

However, more than one login, then Sticky Password will offer you a menu of logins.

[buckshee]

Yes I am using Version 5 but no text shows in the upper box and just the asterisks in the lower password box. But only at those sites I mentioned.

As I said I get the same problem at the same sites with LastPass, Password Deport 5 amd Opera 10 (which of course uses its own password program) so its not unique to Sticky P.

I guess in my case I'm stuck with Roboform. I would have to pay for a new one anyway.

I can't tell the difference between Version 4.1 and 5 anyway ? And will there be the same problem as Roboform when new browsers come out ?

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Yes I am using Version 5 but no text shows in the upper box and just the asterisks in the lower password box. But only at those sites I mentioned.

As I said I get the same problem at the same sites with LastPass, Password Deport 5 amd Opera 10 (which of course uses its own password program) so its not unique to Sticky P.

I guess in my case I'm stuck with Roboform. I would have to pay for a new one anyway.

I can't tell the difference between Version 4.1 and 5 anyway ? And will there be the same problem as Roboform when new browsers come out ?" }-
Lock all other Passwords Programs and have only Sticky Password unlocked and then try to see what results you get.

You can manually set Sticky Password to populate more fields and not just the login and password fields.

It is located in Manual Form Edit!

Kind regards,

KOR!

[ellison64]

-{ Quote: "I would love to move away from Roboform but unfortunately I find it the best at handling logins. I tried LastPass but at a few sites (mainly banking & Credit Card) it didn't register the login. Same thing with Sticky Password (where I even tried adding the login manually) and Password Depot 5 as well so though I hate paying the $19.95 upgrade price to the Pro version I may have to do that if I upgrade my browser. I even tried Opera but it stumbled over the same sites as LastPass and all the others.
It seems that all these programs (except Roboform) choke when I go to a site where I enter an account number such as credit card or bank account number then have to hit`Enter' which then brings me to a second page where I enter the password.
If Account login and Password are on the same page they all work fine. Very frustrating. So be careful before you jump ship" }-

Ive decided to stay with roboform 6.I will not pay for any further activations or for any upgrades,mostly because of their bad buisness ethic and because thier customer support is abysmal.If support for roboform 6 browser plugin ceases then I will use sticky password full time.
ellison

[Hugger]

-{ Quote: "My blood is slowly starting to boil with the ridiculous answers i am recieveing from support to a question i put to them.The question was quite simple...
Why cant i upgrade roboform 6 pro to roboform 7 pro for $9.95 which is what an upgrade to the subscription based roboform everywhere would cost.

The two replies i recieved back were...
1."Please note that $9.95 is an upgrade price for the first order and the other ones will cost only $9.95"
2."RoboForm Everywhere license is an annual subscription. RoboForm v7 license is valid for all updates within version 7".

Is roboform customer care automated with bots? that fail to understand a simple question,or is my question just too hard for them to understand and answer?
ellison" }-
I think I remember seeing that the first year is 9.95 and subsequent years will be 19.95.

[Ed_H]

-{ Quote: "I am a paid customer of RoboForm, Sticky Password and Password Depot 5. I find both Sticky Password and Password Depot 5 to be much superior handling logins at Banks, where the process is two stages such as Bank of America." }-

I also have found that Roboform does not handle bank logins well but, unfortunately, neither does LastPass.

I haven't heard much about Sticky Password. How would you compare it in functionality to Roboform or LastPAss?

[smee00]

I discovered the forum through Google and I loved the topics so much I joined!

Great thread guys and Hi,

I recently reinstalled my computer, I downloaded and installed the latest version 7 of Roboform, not knowing that it was different to v6.
On installation I realised that Roboform had received a makeover, but I wasn't prepared for needing a new licence after trying to activate the software with my v6 pro licence.

The only choice I was presented with was the Everywhere licence, after activation I discovered that the licence would expire in one year so I contacted RF support.
I now have my money refunded, and the Everywhere licence has successfully been revoked, but I am left confused with the licensing structure.
It seems that RF want to charge existing loyal customers of V6 and other products full whack for upgrading their v6 to v7!

I know I bought lifetime licences, so I feel quite cheated and deceived. I have put up with bugs until they were sorted and I have been a loyal repeat customer.

To me the software functions 98% the same as v6, I use the sync data twice a month and would have been willing to pay a very small fee for this service based on my extreme small usage.
-{ Quote: "
I would rate Roboform/Silver Systems:
Support: 5/5
Functionality: 5/5
Customer Information: 2.5/5
Customer retention efforts: 3/5
Browser support: 4/5
" }-
Conclusion:
I feel badly treated, I would have paid a discounted 9.95 for the new version, but I feel that RF could send and offer existing customers discounts.
Not being rewarded for loyalty is a huge mistake, OK Silver Systems are expanding and need full bank accounts, but they will not be getting full whack for v7, I just may vote with my feet and switch providers.

Smee00

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "I also have found that Roboform does not handle bank logins well but, unfortunately, neither does LastPass.

I haven't heard much about Sticky Password. How would you compare it in functionality to Roboform or LastPAss?" }-
Hi there,

Sticky Password is the best when it comes to passcards, both internal (Windows Programs) and external (Web Pages). Where RoboForm used to shine was, in Form Filling the Web Pages. The new version 7 of RoboForm is very buggy and doesn't fill all the fields.

In Sticky Password, they are trying to implement this function, but they are not fully there.

Kaspersky used to sell Sticky Password version 1. I bought the version 3 directly from Sticky Password. I was told that I have to pay for upgrades to version 4 and so forth.

Since then they have implemented quite a few changes and moved from version 3 to version and now to version 5. I was given free upgrades to both these version.

The learning curve on Sticky Password is a little bit higher and so is the satisfaction. The support is excellent and the people are joy to work with.

Best regards,

KOR!

[Johnny123]

-{ Quote: "I discovered the forum through Google and I loved the topics so much I joined!" }-
Welcome to the forum :)
-{ Quote: "I just may vote with my feet and switch providers." }-I did this three days ago and it was like a breath of fresh air to be RoboForm-free. I have two licences that were also supposedly "lifetime" but which now are not. I've also had hassles with them over the years due to activations, etc. and I'm glad to have moved on.

I'm using LastPass now and it seems to be really good. Importing your RoboForm data is simple and takes around ten minutes at the most. In addition, the price is right (free).

[Ed_H]

-{ Quote: "Hi there,

Sticky Password is the best when it comes to passcards, both internal (Windows Programs) and external (Web Pages). Where RoboForm used to shine was, in Form Filling the Web Pages. The new version 7 of RoboForm is very buggy and doesn't fill all the fields.

In Sticky Password, they are trying to implement this function, but they are not fully there.

Kaspersky used to sell Sticky Password version 1. I bought the version 3 directly from Sticky Password. I was told that I have to pay for upgrades to version 4 and so forth.

Since then they have implemented quite a few changes and moved from version 3 to version and now to version 5. I was given free upgrades to both these version.

The learning curve on Sticky Password is a little bit higher and so is the satisfaction. The support is excellent and the people are joy to work with.

Best regards,

KOR!" }-

KOR...thanks for the info on Sticky Password. I'll give it a try over the weekend.

[Kapiti]

Roboform users might find this usful; Free Sticky Passwords.

http://www.techno360.in/

[buckshee]

The freebie in the link above is for version 4.1. Sticky Password has given that away recently at a few sites. Now they are on Version 5 but I don't know the differences

[jmorlan]

Roboform has just released version 7.1.1 to fix some of the many bugs (http://www.roboform.com/support/news) in the 7.1.0 release.

They now also offer downloads of the last of the 6.x versions (http://www.roboform.com/download/v6) on their site for those who need to reinstall that version. My guess is that a lot of people used the internal updater without being told in advance that their "lifetime" license was no good if they updated. It is not clear whether they will continue to support 6.10.1 but in my view they should.

Roboform originally made its mark as an alternative to a spyware program called "Gater." Siber Systems had an excellent reputation for integrity. These are our critical login and password information after all. The question remains whether their reputation has been tarnished by all of this.

[smith2006]

I bought two PRO licenses in Nov 2009 & one license in April this year.

Where is my lifetime upgrade? :thumbd:

[smee00]

I think Silver Systems needs to address this little concern (not many customers know about this), before it blows up in their face.

I have a ticket open addressing my concerns, I am still in two minds if to change vendors, I am at a point where I need extra licences: '2 x Pro' and '1 x Portable'.
I am certainly not going to be paying the hiked fee for 1% extra functionality, this is not a major upgrade like microsoft's XP to windows 7.

[ellison64]

I just emailed Simon Davies
sdavis@siber.com who apparently is thier marketing manager
http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/RoboForm/1014298205/1?all_reviews
I let him know exactly how I felt.It wont make any difference probably .....but it made me feel a whole lot better ;)
ellison

[Woodgiant]

-{ Quote: "I am certainly not going to be paying the hiked fee for 1% extra functionality, this is not a major upgrade like microsoft's XP to windows 7." }-
That is definitely true:thumb: And ellison64 wrote:I just emailed Simon Davies
and I let him know exactly how I felt.It wont make any difference probably .....but it made me feel a whole lot better:thumb:
That's the way to go if you what to make a change, then you have to make some noise, and it does make a difference:)
Best Regards

[Tony]

+1
The more i use Lastpass the more i like it.
It works so much better in Chrome and with the Dolphin HD Android browser and it works just fine with Opera.

If Roboform wanted to change its licensing policy it should have made sure firstly that it worked at least as well as Lastpass across as many platforms.
:thumb: Lastpass
:thumbd: Roboform

[wideglide36]

Hey guys,

One more question about this new version 7.

In Version 6 there was a way to switch between any identity, and I can't remember if you clicked on "users" or if there was a selection to "switch identities".

I can't seem to find out how to switch between identities in version 7, as I can't find a "users" selection, or a "switch identities" option.

I'm sure it's a simple procedure.

Maybe somebody using version 6 could let me know if they ran into this problem when they upgraded to 7.

Thanks

[wideglide36]

Please disregard my last post.

I just received a reply to this question from Roboform via an online ticket.

They informed me to go to tools and then profiles and create a new profile.

I always thought you went through the "identity" section to do this.

Anyways, all is working fine now. My stupid mistake for sure!

Should also say that Roboform responded very fast to my question. Same day in fact.

I thought that since it was a weekend, that I might not hear anything until Monday, hence the reason for posting here also.

Thanks

[smith2006]

-{ Quote: "I just emailed Simon Davies
sdavis@siber.com who apparently is thier marketing manager
http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/RoboForm/1014298205/1?all_reviews
I let him know exactly how I felt.It wont make any difference probably .....but it made me feel a whole lot better ;)
ellison" }-

Thanks for the information. :thumb:

I just wrote to him to express my dissatisfaction.

[buckshee]

No consolation I know but BitDuJour have this as an upcoming special where you can get the Pro version for $14.95 and the Roboform2Go Pro for $19.95 - Dates aren't set though

See
http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/roboform-pro/

http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/roboform2go-pro/

You can be e-mailed when they becomes available

[smee00]

You see, from the previous post, Silver Systems can lower their prices.

Loyal Customers are not valued, instead they think we are Cash Cows! This makes me feel disheartened and I no longer feel proud to recommend the software or even be associated with the 'we have our hands in your deep pockets' attitude.

[Bambo]

They just did that in November (without clear info on 7 version) but repeating this over and over is of course another way to make a mockery out of strict update/upgrade policies.

Next level must be to jump on Giveaway train.

[BobW1]

Ive got some questions that I'm not sure if anyone has raised:

What keeps Roboform from pushing your login information out to some centralized computer somewhere for eventual use by the Siber company?

The software clearly can decrypt your info in order to use it for your purposes. What keeps it from slowly passing it along? This is not a whole lot of data that needs to be sent.... Link, user, pass, etc.

What I mean is that we are trusting the program with exactly how to log in to our bank, credit card, and stock accounts, among other things. It IS capable of, and does talk completely in the background - both sends and receives. Think about the fact that you see it telling you that there is a new version periodically, and you didn't see it use your browser - it did. Also, by the very nature of the product, these guys are experts at encryption.

This is a company based in Russia, and they could very well be compiling a list of accounts they can get into globally, and there is no way we can prove it ahead of time. They just ask us to trust them.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "What keeps Roboform from pushing your login information out to some centralized computer somewhere for eventual use by the Siber company?" }-
Excellent question!

Siber Systems can no longer be trusted anymore!

Best regards,

KOR!

[smee00]

All my passcards notes etc. are password protected.
There are currently 5 password encryption methods available: DES, 3DES, AES, Blowfish and RC6.

I am hoping the cloud is secure...

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "All my passcards notes etc. are password protected.
There are currently 5 password encryption methods available: DES, 3DES, AES, Blowfish and RC6.

I am hoping the cloud is secure..." }-
Anyone can change your "Security Settings" when you leave your computer unattended, even when your RoboForm is locked!

Best regards,

KOR!

[smee00]

@King of Rapture
The only experience I have of Passes,notes and identities password change is when I altered my RF passcards by bulk. It first asked me for the original pass before processing.
I know that if I am logged in and someone has access to the non expired RF session anyone can alter passes.

[smee00]

Has anyone experience with LastPass...

I would like to know if I can run it from a USB stick like RF Portable as well as on the Desktop.
Also is there a paid version like the RF model (not yearly) without the adverts?

[BobW1]

The point I was trying to make was not about someone having physical access to your machine, access to your passcard files, or even access to the passcards stored out in the cloud. It's probably reasonable to assume that DES, 3DES, AES, Blowfish and RC6 were implemented correctly. Someone's probably tried to do the necessary reverse crypto to open "secured" files, and it would be out by now - I hope. Also, nowhere do they state that they are PCI compliant with regard to wherever they are storing your data in the cloud. They definitely have access to whatever is there.


The issue I raise is much further reaching. What if Siber has an interest in the contents of your passcards. The program has free access to the contents since you tell it how to decrypt them. There's nothing to say that it doesn't cache your password for it's own use. It does cache it for your use. Consequently, it / they can do anything they want with the contents. And, of course, it matters not what your choice of encryption is.

I've never seen where anyone has reviewed the source code, since it's not open source. We trust other programs, like tax programs with our data, but there is nothing else that we feed ALL the details of how to get into some very secure websites. There would be no way to prove they were not uploading your data. For example, 12/22 and 12/23. something on my computer had a discussion with "siber.com". Caught by wallwatcher, but I have no idea what was sent or received. It doesn't talk when you first start it, and you can't predict when it's going to talk, but I know I didn't go near roboform's or siber's web site on those two days.

WallReViewer - as of 12/24/2010 7:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time (Timestamps are Local Time)
Date Time Dir Prot Rem IP Addr Remote Name R Port Lcl IP Addr L Port Other/Msgs
2010/12/22 19:47:44 O tcp 67.208.88.197 siber.com 80 10.33.90.10 4434

WallReViewer - as of 12/24/2010 7:07:14 PM Eastern Standard Time (Timestamps are Local Time)
Date Time Dir Prot Rem IP Addr Remote Name R Port Lcl IP Addr L Port Other/Msgs
2010/12/23 18:12:19 O tcp 67.208.88.197 siber.com 80 10.33.90.10 1647


I actually asked then several years ago what was in the funny alphabet soup http requests I caught it sending a long time ago, and they - a guy who called himself "William" - wouldn't give an answer.

[smee00]

I see what you now mean BobW1

I wondered once if the data stream for pass processing was encrypted or in plain text, I am sure that it could be tapped by hackers if they wanted to target it.

[Hugger]

If it were to be done right, many of the software companies would have to be bonded/insured so that if your private info was stolen you would have some recourse.
But I would be surprised to see it happen.
Hugger

[Bambo]

When programs are not opensource (for as much as that is a guarantee for good security) you must look at history and experience from users. Which is why Roboform has been recommended a million times over many years. If they have weak security they are no worse than any other online service dealing with your data. Will have to reinstall Roboform but I think you are pretty screwed if master password is lost, there is no way of restoring since only you know it. Possible a matter of settings of which there are many. Quality of master password decides overall encryption level from what I understand. So avoid a nice short one to make it easy to log in over and over. Better to stay logged in with strong password.

Unprofessional way of doing business feed assumptions and thoughts like these and that is ok :)

[jmorlan]

As near as I can tell Siber Systems is located in the United States. It is not based in Russia although it has overseas offices there. Its main offices appear to be in Virginia.

Still they admittedly lied about our lifetime licenses. Why should we believe our sensitive data is secure on their servers? They lied once, they will lie again. Why should we continue to trust them with our sensitive logins and passwords?

By the way, they just released a new version. Version 7.1.2

http://www.roboform.com/support/news

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "As near as I can tell Siber Systems is located in the United States. It is not based in Russia although it has overseas offices there. It's main offices appear to be in Virginia.

Still they admittedly lied about our lifetime licenses. Why should we believe our sensitive data is secure on their servers? They lied once, they will lie again. Why should we continue to trust them with our sensitive logins and passwords? " }-
Well said!

They not only lied but cheated us and broken the law. They are so big, that we little consumers have no choice but to let them cheat us and get away with it!

Kind regards,

KOR!

[Nozavi]

Well, you've got to love editors who don't have clue as to what they're talking about... so here's one at CNET who wrote a ~ Snipped as per TOS (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/faq.php?faq=wilders_tos#faq_wilders_tos_1) ~ piece on Roboform... ::)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20026755-93.html

[Bambo]

Program does not suddenly get crappy because some of their marketing moves stinks - I don't see how he ~ Snipped as per TOS (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/faq.php?faq=wilders_tos#faq_wilders_tos_1) ~. Don't forget that Roboform has been praised for many years, some of that has to do with consumer friendly license scheme but program have also been solid and updated. Most could afford program and question of huge password problem was be done with. What not to like? Still lots left, now just not for everyone and more difficult to recommend as if it was almost freeware. Those who have followed Roboforms actions last few months also have to ignore they are stupid and that make things difficult. Roboform is way better than Lastpass if you ask me but I won't use it though.

[Nozavi]

-{ Quote: "Program does not suddenly get crappy because some of their marketing moves stinks - I don't see how he ~ Snipped as per TOS (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/faq.php?faq=wilders_tos#faq_wilders_tos_1) ~. Don't forget that Roboform has been praised for many years, some of that has to do with consumer friendly license scheme but program have also been solid and updated. Most could afford program and question of huge password problem was be done with. What not to like? Still lots left, now just not for everyone and more difficult to recommend as if it was almost freeware. Those who have followed Roboforms actions last few months also have to ignore they are stupid and that make things difficult. Roboform is way better than Lastpass if you ask me but I won't use it though." }-
I didn't say it's crappy, but writing an article so subjectively with a complete disregard to other people's preferences and problems (highlighting just the yearly subscription and just the smallest of all problems...) is something I usually call ~ Snipped as per TOS (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/faq.php?faq=wilders_tos#faq_wilders_tos_1) ~

[silver0066]

Another BIG problem with v7.12. It constantly crashes Chrome. Both the Stable Version and the Canary version. I don't know if it is Google's fault or Roboform.

Sent ticket to Roboform, no answer.

[jmorlan]

Many users who upgraded, using the internal updater were not informed that their license had reverted to a 30 day trial. The installation process looked just like any other update with no warning that the license terms had changed. Now that 30 days have passed, these users are now discovering that their trial period has expired and they may feel unduly pressured to buy a new license to restore access to all of their passcards.

For those feeling ripped-off by all of this, you can revert to an earlier version which does not require you to buy a new license.

http://www.roboform.com/support/faq/roboform#faq_prevversions

Doing so will give you extra time to decide if you want to upgrade. And if you decide not to upgrade, you can just keep the old version. At least for now, your old license remains good for that. Reverting also allows more time to evaluate alternatives.

FWIW, version 7.1.3 has been released. Supposedly fixes some Chrome instability.

[SirDracula]

Very disappointed that Roboform v7 in effect revokes our lifetime licenses that we purchased. I "upgraded" to v7 as I got a notification a new version is available and now I'm in 30-day free trial mode. No warning during install, no screen to give me the choice to cancel, nothing. Very poor form on Roboform's part. Time to look for alternatives.

[smee00]

@SirDracula

You can downgrade again by installing the v6 version.

http://www.roboform.com/download/v6

[SirDracula]

-{ Quote: "@SirDracula

You can downgrade again by installing the v6 version.

http://www.roboform.com/download/v6" }-

That's not the point. The point is we were promised lifetime upgrades, that's why I bought the licenses and chose to use and pay for Roboform. They cannot just purge all the "free upgrades" wording from the site and pretend it was never there.

What's worse is that after a few phone calls and support tickets I managed to get a FREE upgrade to v7, only to be revoked again and reverted back to a v6 a few days later claiming they made a mistake.

For all of you who are disappointed by this change of license, call them, file support tickets, send them emails. Do not give up, you may get free licenses that stick or not, but at least we will be heard.

For one, I'm done with this sleazy company and their practices.

[Kapiti]

Does anyone know if Roboform 6 will work with IE 9?

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Does anyone know if Roboform 6 will work with IE 9?" }-
Does it work on Firefox 4?

Last I checked it didn't and I was forced to buy RoboForm 7, while still in beta. RoboForm 7 beta then had a add-on which worked with Firefox 4, but RoboForm 6 didn't!

Best regards,

KOR!

[SirDracula]

-{ Quote: "Does anyone know if Roboform 6 will work with IE 9?" }-

Good luck with that! Current versions of Chrome or even the upcoming Firefox 4 do not work. If IE8 has an update one day that breaks Roboform v6, good luck getting any fixes. It's pretty clear to me that v6 is frozen and you have to pay more if you want to play.

[SirDracula]

-{ Quote: "
Last I checked it didn't and I was forced to buy RoboForm 7, while still in beta. RoboForm 7 beta then had a add-on which worked with Firefox 4, but RoboForm 6 didn't!
" }-

You should not have paid for what should have been a free upgrade, as originally promised. Ask for a refund.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "You should not have paid for what should have been a free upgrade, as originally promised. Ask for a refund." }-
Very true!

Though, I have build a big library of passcards, identities and safenotes, so I didn't have very much choice. I didn't mind paying them after a long time, but the way they approached this is real bad.

It is the big companies who have invested heavily have a say. These, I presume use the Enterprise Edition. We the small consumers don't have much say. But, it was we the small consumers, who made Sibersystems what it is today.

The story of Mitch Kapor is well known.

Best regards,

KOR!

[SirDracula]

You cannot let companies like this blackmail you because of your library of passwords. I can no longer trust Roboform. If they cannot keep their word and honor free upgrades, how can I trust them with my passwords? When they check for updates or after a software update, they submit a big encoded string to their servers. I don't know what's in that string, for all I know a decrypted version of my passwords could be in there. I cannot trust their word anymore. Why are they not open and just submit a clear text string (over SSL of course) for the user to see exactly what information is being submitted?

[b2carey_siber]

All,

I understand some of the frustration from the users, but I would like to clarify a few things, answer some of your FAQs from these posts, and to allow you to see Siber Systems' point of view.

Do You have to Upgrade?

No. RoboForm 6 is still available and your are not forced to upgrade at all. Just install the latest version of RoboForm 6 and you can continue to use it forever.

Why did Siber trick me into upgrading?

That was completely unintentional. When we soft-launched RoboForm 7 a few weeks ago we were still working on messaging throughout the site. If anyone has ever managed a big website before they understand that it is often impossible to get everything right the first time. In this case we realized that we did not have enough messaging that Version 7 was a paid upgrade before the update. We have since added additional messaging and will continue to improve the messaging even further. The last thing we want to do is trick people, although we completely understand how you feel if you have already gone through this process.

Why did you decide to charge for this upgrade?

The world has significantly changed since we first released our password manager in 1999. There are new operating systems, there are new browsers, there are new mobile devices and all these things keep changing on a regular basis. Further, website keep getting increasingly more secure and complex. It has become increasingly more expensive to keep up with these ever-changing technologies.

Nowadays we consider password management to be very similar to security products in that we need to be constantly monitoring operating systems, mobile devices, browsers, websites etc. in order to keep up with the rapidly changing world. It's a lot more expensive to keep-up today than it was yesterday.

In addition, user behavior has changed. In the past we typically saw one or two users with RoboForm on one computer. One license...one computer...no problem. In today's world we see one user have multiple computers and devices. This is why we created RoboForm Everywhere...in our mind, at $19.95 per year for unlimited computers and devices, RoboForm Everywhere was created to be more convenient and less expensive for our users. Because we want to encourage everyone to try it, we priced it at $9.95 for the first year.

Users are struggling with these technology changes as well. In the past few years we have seen the number of non-bug related support tickets increase 3-fold and we continue to answer each and every email and phone call (albeit we're a bit slower to respond right now :)

What is the Upgrade Pricing?

Our normal pricing for RoboForm Desktop 7 is $29.95 per license. If you purchased RoboForm after September 1, 2010 then you get a free upgrade to RoboForm Desktop, or a free year of RoboForm Everywhere. If you purchased before September 1, 2010, then you get a $10.00 discount on your upgrade license.

What is our goal?

We're not a bunch of bad guys. We didn't devise a plan to try and trick our users. Anyone who truly knows us, understands that we go well out of our way to make everyone we can happy.

All we want is to find a way to continue to bring you a quality product at an affordable and reasonable price.

Unfortunately we've had some missteps with our communications, but we're improving our communication every day.

What if I'm still not satisfied?

We want to make everyone happy. If you feel we are still not justified in charging for upgrades please contact us at the emails below. Perhaps we can find a way to make you happy and keep you as a customer for life.

Simon Davis - sdavis(at)roboform.com
Bill Carey - b2carey(at)roboform.com

[b2carey_siber]

-{ Quote: "When programs are not opensource (for as much as that is a guarantee for good security) you must look at history and experience from users. Which is why Roboform has been recommended a million times over many years. If they have weak security they are no worse than any other online service dealing with your data. Will have to reinstall Roboform but I think you are pretty screwed if master password is lost, there is no way of restoring since only you know it. Possible a matter of settings of which there are many. Quality of master password decides overall encryption level from what I understand. So avoid a nice short one to make it easy to log in over and over. Better to stay logged in with strong password.

Unprofessional way of doing business feed assumptions and thoughts like these and that is ok :)" }-


RoboForm is an extremely secure program. Your data itself is encrypted with your master password. You can store that data just on your PC or you can choose our optional Everywhere service. If you choose to sync with Everywhere then the transmission of data is secure as well as the account access is secure.

Our technology powers software for some of the largest companies in the world. In order for them to use our technology it had to be tested by third-party security companies. Our software has been tested externally by at least three different vendors that I know of.

As for whether we can view your data...the answer is definitely NO. In fact, if you lose or forget your master password there is absolutely no way to recover it. This is an inconvenience for some users, but it is a necessary security measure that we take.

[SirDracula]

A little late for this. Bottom line is that RF6 was sold as "Free Upgrades" at least according to this version of your web site:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080822215550/www.roboform.com/why-pro.html

http://i.min.us/icelsk.jpg

There is no mention of minor vs major upgrades on your site.

I checked the license file installed with RF6 and there is no mention of upgrades at all, minor or major.

There are others that agree and you made many users unhappy:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-Not-To-Change-A-Licensing-Model-171188.shtml

The right thing for you to do would be to grandfather in all previous RF6 users, not try to extort more money.

If we cannot trust you that you will honor the terms of the license we bought, how can we trust you with our passwords? Your business model is based on TRUST and this is exactly what you lost right now.

[SirDracula]

-{ Quote: "
As for whether we can view your data...the answer is definitely NO. In fact, if you lose or forget your master password there is absolutely no way to recover it. This is an inconvenience for some users, but it is a necessary security measure that we take." }-

When you check for updates or after an upgrade, RF contacts your servers and submits a request that has a query parameter with a long encoded string. What's in that string? Why not just leave it clear text and send it over a SSL connection so that the user knows exactly what's submitted? For all I know a copy of my decrypted passwords is submitted to your servers. How can we trust you if you are not transparent?

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "All,

I understand some of the frustration from the users, but I would like to clarify a few things, answer some of your FAQs from these posts, and to allow you to see Siber Systems' point of view.

Do You have to Upgrade?

No. RoboForm 6 is still available and your are not forced to upgrade at all. Just install the latest version of RoboForm 6 and you can continue to use it forever.

Simon Davis - sdavis(at)roboform.com
Bill Carey - b2carey(at)roboform.com" }-
I don't feel like tearing you up point by point. It is sufficient to say that I was forced to upgrade. WHY?

Not because of the so called, "soft-launched RoboForm 7". This is complete BS and marketing ploy.

It is because there was no add-on (plug-in) for Firefox 4. I upgraded to RoboForm 7, while it was still in beta, but had the add-on (plug-in) for Firefox 4. Where as, the stable paid version RoboForm 6 didn't have the add-on (plug-in) for Firefox 4.

Here is a question for you. Let us see if you can honestly answer it without beating around the bush.

Are you going to provide plug-ins for all the browsers for RoboForm 6 now and in future?

Without the browsers plug-ins RoboForm 6 is useless!

Best regards,

KOR!

[ellison64]

-{ Quote: "All,

I understand some of the frustration from the users, but I would like to clarify a few things, answer some of your FAQs from these posts, and to allow you to see Siber Systems' point of view.

Do You have to Upgrade?

No. RoboForm 6 is still available and your are not forced to upgrade at all. Just install the latest version of RoboForm 6 and you can continue to use it forever.

Why did Siber trick me into upgrading?

That was completely unintentional. When we soft-launched RoboForm 7 a few weeks ago we were still working on messaging throughout the site. If anyone has ever managed a big website before they understand that it is often impossible to get everything right the first time. In this case we realized that we did not have enough messaging that Version 7 was a paid upgrade before the update. We have since added additional messaging and will continue to improve the messaging even further. The last thing we want to do is trick people, although we completely understand how you feel if you have already gone through this process.

Why did you decide to charge for this upgrade?

The world has significantly changed since we first released our password manager in 1999. There are new operating systems, there are new browsers, there are new mobile devices and all these things keep changing on a regular basis. Further, website keep getting increasingly more secure and complex. It has become increasingly more expensive to keep up with these ever-changing technologies.

Nowadays we consider password management to be very similar to security products in that we need to be constantly monitoring operating systems, mobile devices, browsers, websites etc. in order to keep up with the rapidly changing world. It's a lot more expensive to keep-up today than it was yesterday.

In addition, user behavior has changed. In the past we typically saw one or two users with RoboForm on one computer. One license...one computer...no problem. In today's world we see one user have multiple computers and devices. This is why we created RoboForm Everywhere...in our mind, at $19.95 per year for unlimited computers and devices, RoboForm Everywhere was created to be more convenient and less expensive for our users. Because we want to encourage everyone to try it, we priced it at $9.95 for the first year.

Users are struggling with these technology changes as well. In the past few years we have seen the number of non-bug related support tickets increase 3-fold and we continue to answer each and every email and phone call (albeit we're a bit slower to respond right now :)

What is the Upgrade Pricing?

Our normal pricing for RoboForm Desktop 7 is $29.95 per license. If you purchased RoboForm after September 1, 2010 then you get a free upgrade to RoboForm Desktop, or a free year of RoboForm Everywhere. If you purchased before September 1, 2010, then you get a $10.00 discount on your upgrade license.

What is our goal?

We're not a bunch of bad guys. We didn't devise a plan to try and trick our users. Anyone who truly knows us, understands that we go well out of our way to make everyone we can happy.

All we want is to find a way to continue to bring you a quality product at an affordable and reasonable price.

Unfortunately we've had some missteps with our communications, but we're improving our communication every day.

What if I'm still not satisfied?

We want to make everyone happy. If you feel we are still not justified in charging for upgrades please contact us at the emails below. Perhaps we can find a way to make you happy and keep you as a customer for life.

Simon Davis - sdavis(at)roboform.com
Bill Carey - b2carey(at)roboform.com" }-

I have to admire your ~ Snipped as per TOS (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/faq.php?faq=wilders_tos#faq_wilders_tos_1) ~ by trying to placate older customers that have in essence been lied to ,and basically kicked in the teeth by siber systems.Im an older (and now former) customer of yours ,that have purchased 4 licences (all 6 pro).I expected free upgrade to 7 .If you couldnt honour free upgrades to older customers ,then you should have said so and explained why you originally said we could get free upgrades but now we cant.That said you made another error.You ignored or basically fobbed off those that emailed customer support about the upgrade by quoting your upgrade prices but not explaing why you wont honour older customers who purchased 6 on the premise of free upgrades.The ironic thing about this whole sorry episode ,is that if you had come clean about things and given plenty of warning ,that you could no longer afford to honour the free upgrades to older customers ,and if you had offered upgrades to 7 pro at $9.95 (THE SAME PRICE AS EVERYWHERE)then you might have had a little more undersdtanding ,and possibly got away with it.As it is you have lost much of the credibility that you once had.Roboform is a great but it would take a lot to get me back using it ,and recommending it ....not because of the product ,but because of the way you do buisness.
ellison

[MBarker]

-{ Quote: "Personally, I think this is disgusting. I purchased R.F 6.10 about a month ago, now , it looks like, no more updates. So what happens if a security hole is found. Will it be patched . I f I'd known I would have waited and bought version 7 :thumbd:" }-

If you purchased after September 1st, 2010, we will upgrade you to Version 7 at no cost. Please follow this link to do so: https://secure.roboform.com/php/pums/pums_usrlogfrm_upgrade.php. Apologies for any inconvenience or confusion.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems

[ellison64]

-{ Quote: "I don't feel like tearing you up point by point. It is sufficient to say that I was forced to upgrade. WHY?

Not because of the so called, "soft-launched RoboForm 7". This is complete BS and marketing ploy.

It is because there was no add-on (plug-in) for Firefox 4. I upgraded to RoboForm 7, while it was still in beta, but had the add-on (plug-in) for Firefox 4. Where as, the stable paid version RoboForm 6 didn't have the add-on (plug-in) for Firefox 4.

Here is a question for you. Let us see if you can honestly answer it without beating around the bush.

Are you going to provide plug-ins for all the browsers for RoboForm 6 now and in future?

Without the browsers plug-ins RoboForm 6 is useless!

Best regards,

KOR!" }-

I think sibersystems FAQ has already answered that
.................................
Why do I have to pay for RoboForm 7?

RoboForm 7 is better than RoboForm 6:
* New features: Synchronization, Applications, Better User Interface
* New browsers supported: Chrome, Safari, Firefox 4.
* New operating systems supported: Mac OS, Linux.
* New mobile devices: iPhone, iPad (available now), Android (coming soon).
.................................
Unless its another lack of communication by siber systems ,it seems pretty obvious based on the above that being able to use roboform with firefox 4 is one of 7s selling points.
ellison

[MBarker]

-{ Quote: "Man, you've got to love these marketing tricks...
On the comparison page, it says you pay the 30 bucks just this once. So, any average Joe who doesn't look close enough will think Hey, I'm gonna pay 30$ once for this great password manager? Deal!
What he's surely going to miss or misunderstand is the "Free Major Upgrades" part. He doesn't realize that if you guys release version 8 next year, he just paid 30$ for... 6 months. Heck, even Lastpass offers a better deal...
Of course, the above example is somewhat of an exaggeration to prove a point, because you probably won't be releasing version 8 in a few months, but the facts remain the same:
- You CANNOT expect people to pay $50 (or more) to use a program for 4 or 5 months (because that's what you’re asking from any person who purchased Roboform in August, July, June etc 2010) and let's not get into talking how most users thought they were buying a lifetime license...
- If this happened with version 7, it means it will surely happen with the next major version... (that is, people paying almost twice as much for Roboform)
- You CANNOT expect MOST people to adopt this Everywhere concept. I'm sure a lot of people use Roboform on their workstation/laptop and a license or two will suffice; a yearly subscription surely doesn't justify itself... (In my personal opinion, you guys still don’t have what it takes to compete with Lastpass from the yearly subscription point of view, but that’s just my take on this)
Later today I’ll also post a more polished version of this post as a reply to your comment/my article on Softpedia, since a lot of people had their say there too." }-

In regards to your concern for Version 8, with the RoboForm Everywhere yearly subscription you will pay the same yearly fee when we eventually come out with Version 8 (which would be many years from now). We created this new licensing agreement based on consumer feedback over the last 10 years. Many users wanted the ability to purchase one license that would provide them with an infinite number installs, rather than one license per computer.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems

[ellison64]

-{ Quote: "If you purchased after September 1st, 2010, we will upgrade you to Version 7 at no cost. Please follow this link to do so: https://secure.roboform.com/php/pums/pums_usrlogfrm_upgrade.php. Apologies for any inconvenience or confusion.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems" }-

Melissa my love...
Everybody here is already aware of the upgrade policy.Nothing has changed ,and there isnt any confusion ,other than why purchasers of roboform 6 who bought it on the premise of free upgrades , were denied that option and given no notice.
ellison

[MBarker]

-{ Quote: "I'm a little confused too.

I purchased Roboform Pro a couple years ago and I had a couple questions.

I just recently purchased the Everywhere version for $9.95 and when I check my version status inside the Roboform program, it say version 7 Everywhere, but it also says Roboform Pro.

What happens in a year from now if I don't want to purchase the Everywhere version? Do I still retain Roboform Pro V7 or do I need to go back to the 6 version of Roboform Pro?

Very confusing.

Also, since I purchased the Pro version 6 a couple years ago, am I supposed to be entitled to a free upgrade to version 7?

I'm really confused..........................." }-

If you do not want to continue to use RoboForm Everywhere in a year's time, you have the option purchase RoboForm Desktop, which is a one time fee.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems

[SirDracula]

-{ Quote: "If you purchased after September 1st, 2010, we will upgrade you to Version 7 at no cost. Please follow this link to do so: https://secure.roboform.com/php/pums/pums_usrlogfrm_upgrade.php. Apologies for any inconvenience or confusion.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems" }-

Why even post this? We've heard this many times. This is the standard reply you get when you file a support ticket and ask questions. This proves one more time that the point is completely missed by Siber, you do not even read the questions in the support tickets, let alone answer them. Boilerplate answers, that's all I've been getting.

I also tried calling, there used to be a toll-free 800 number on the site, but it was removed. I called the other 703 number for 3 days, I either got a busy tone or voicemail. I was never offered the choice to wait on the line for the next support person. All 3 days I left a voicemail asking for someone to call me back. I got no call.

Unfortunately, you have a major trust issue at this point. The user base from RF6 is what made your company what it is today. Being in the password business is tough because it requires trust. The community praised and trusted RF but you decided to alienate your user base. The same community can also kill your business, because the users are unhappy right now and their voices are being heard through forums, blogs, Twitter, Facebook etc.

Many years ago you used to be the leader, you had the best product, but today there is competition and there are other viable choices. And they make it very easy to import from Roboform, sometimes they have extra features, in many cases they are cheaper than RF and even FREE. Browsers are only getting better, they are starting to offer password syncing for free. You no longer have a unique product.

This was not the time for you to upset your installed user base. You should have offered free upgrades to the RF6 users, explain the improvements and ask for a voluntary donation, I'm sure many users would have been more than happy to support you. Then for the same user base you should have offered a free year of Roboform Everywhere/Online and a guaranteed discounted subscription model going forward. Then slowly you stop developing the desktop version of RF and eventually freeze it. The new features all go into the new Everywhere product. This is how you move your user base to a subscription based model, not by one day offering an upgrade and surprise after the install you find out you are in "trial mode", the license is revoked, no warning during the install, nothing. When you try to find out what it is all about as the upgrades were supposed to be FREE, you're sent upgrade pricing. This is extortion, many users panicked and paid for the upgrade out of fear of losing access to their passwords. You should offer them a refund.

[MBarker]

-{ Quote: "Ive got some questions that I'm not sure if anyone has raised:

What keeps Roboform from pushing your login information out to some centralized computer somewhere for eventual use by the Siber company?

The software clearly can decrypt your info in order to use it for your purposes. What keeps it from slowly passing it along? This is not a whole lot of data that needs to be sent.... Link, user, pass, etc.

What I mean is that we are trusting the program with exactly how to log in to our bank, credit card, and stock accounts, among other things. It IS capable of, and does talk completely in the background - both sends and receives. Think about the fact that you see it telling you that there is a new version periodically, and you didn't see it use your browser - it did. Also, by the very nature of the product, these guys are experts at encryption.

This is a company based in Russia, and they could very well be compiling a list of accounts they can get into globally, and there is no way we can prove it ahead of time. They just ask us to trust them." }-


As for security, you need not be worried:

RoboForm is an extremely secure program. Your data itself is encrypted with your master password. You can store that data just on your PC or you can choose our optional Everywhere service. If you choose to sync with Everywhere then the transmission of data is secure as well as the account access is secure.

Your RoboForm Data Files are stored on our RoboForm Everywhere servers and are encrypted (by AES) with your Master Password as the key. Since your Master Password is not stored on our servers, absolutely nobody, including Siber Systems, can access your passwords or other RoboForm data.

Our technology powers software for some of the largest companies in the world. In order for them to use our technology it had to be tested by third-party security companies. Our software has been tested externally by at least three different vendors that I know of.

As for whether we can view your data...the answer is definitely NO. In fact, if you lose or forget your master password there is absolutely no way to recover it. This is an inconvenience for some users, but it is a necessary security measure that we take.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems

[SirDracula]

-{ Quote: "As for security, you need not be worried:

RoboForm is an extremely secure program. Your data itself is encrypted with your master password. You can store that data just on your PC or you can choose our optional Everywhere service. If you choose to sync with Everywhere then the transmission of data is secure as well as the account access is secure.

Your RoboForm Data Files are stored on our RoboForm Everywhere servers and are encrypted (by AES) with your Master Password as the key. Since your Master Password is not stored on our servers, absolutely nobody, including Siber Systems, can access your passwords or other RoboForm data.

Our technology powers software for some of the largest companies in the world. In order for them to use our technology it had to be tested by third-party security companies. Our software has been tested externally by at least three different vendors that I know of.

As for whether we can view your data...the answer is definitely NO. In fact, if you lose or forget your master password there is absolutely no way to recover it. This is an inconvenience for some users, but it is a necessary security measure that we take.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems" }-

When you check for updates or after an upgrade, RF contacts your servers and submits a request that has a query parameter with a long encoded string. What's in that string? Why not just leave it clear text and send it over a SSL connection so that the user knows exactly what's submitted? For all I know a copy of my decrypted passwords is submitted to your servers. How can we trust you if you are not transparent?

[MBarker]

-{ Quote: "Melissa my love...
Everybody here is already aware of the upgrade policy.Nothing has changed ,and there isnt any confusion ,other than why purchasers of roboform 6 who bought it on the premise of free upgrades , were denied that option and given no notice.
ellison" }-

I understand what you are saying - it just appeared that a user who had purchased after Sept. 1st was confused regarding the policy.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems

[MBarker]

-{ Quote: "When you check for updates or after an upgrade, RF contacts your servers and submits a request that has a query parameter with a long encoded string. What's in that string? Why not just leave it clear text and send it over a SSL connection so that the user knows exactly what's submitted? For all I know a copy of my decrypted passwords is submitted to your servers. How can we trust you if you are not transparent?" }-

I have looked at our standard update page and standard activate page and I do not see a long query string being sent over either one. What page exactly are you referring to and how did you get to that page?

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems

[MBarker]

-{ Quote: "Why even post this? We've heard this many times. This is the standard reply you get when you file a support ticket and ask questions. This proves one more time that the point is completely missed by Siber, you do not even read the questions in the support tickets, let alone answer them. Boilerplate answers, that's all I've been getting.

I also tried calling, there used to be a toll-free 800 number on the site, but it was removed. I called the other 703 number for 3 days, I either got a busy tone or voicemail. I was never offered the choice to wait on the line for the next support person. All 3 days I left a voicemail asking for someone to call me back. I got no call.

Unfortunately, you have a major trust issue at this point. The user base from RF6 is what made your company what it is today. Being in the password business is tough because it requires trust. The community praised and trusted RF but you decided to alienate your user base. The same community can also kill your business, because the users are unhappy right now and their voices are being heard through forums, blogs, Twitter, Facebook etc.

Many years ago you used to be the leader, you had the best product, but today there is competition and there are other viable choices. And they make it very easy to import from Roboform, sometimes they have extra features, in many cases they are cheaper than RF and even FREE. Browsers are only getting better, they are starting to offer password syncing for free. You no longer have a unique product.

This was not the time for you to upset your installed user base. You should have offered free upgrades to the RF6 users, explain the improvements and ask for a voluntary donation, I'm sure many users would have been more than happy to support you. Then for the same user base you should have offered a free year of Roboform Everywhere/Online and a guaranteed discounted subscription model going forward. Then slowly you stop developing the desktop version of RF and eventually freeze it. The new features all go into the new Everywhere product. This is how you move your user base to a subscription based model, not by one day offering an upgrade and surprise after the install you find out you are in "trial mode", the license is revoked, no warning during the install, nothing. When you try to find out what it is all about as the upgrades were supposed to be FREE, you're sent upgrade pricing. This is extortion, many users panicked and paid the upgrade of fear of losing access to their passwords. You should offer them a refund." }-

It seemed as though one of the users was confused about our policy, which is why I jumped in to explain the upgrade policy. We do read the questions submitted and sometimes need a clarification by the user to answer the question appropriately.

We recently had a high volume of tickets due to Version 7. We are currently trying to respond to tickets and voice-mails as quickly as possible, however, we did fall behind on our response time. If you have not received a response already, you should shortly.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "...

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems" }-
Dear Ms. Barker,

As you paying customer (2 licenses of RoboForm 6 and 2 licenses of RoboForm 7), can you give me the courtesy and reply to my above post #129.

Many thanks!

Best regards,

KOR!

[SirDracula]

-{ Quote: "I have looked at our standard update page and standard activate page and I do not see a long query string being sent over either one. What page exactly are you referring to and how did you get to that page?

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems" }-

This one:

http://www.roboform.com/test-pass.html?aaa=...........


I obviously didn't post the string after "aaa=" because I have no idea what's in it, but it's around 200 characters long. Would you care to enlighten us, please?

[SirDracula]

-{ Quote: "
We recently had a high volume of tickets due to Version 7. We are currently trying to respond to tickets and voice-mails as quickly as possible, however, we did fall behind on our response time. If you have not received a response already, you should shortly.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems" }-

Unless your response will offer a FREE upgrade to ALL v6 users, you can save the trouble of replying. Free upgrades on a case by case basis are not an option at this point. I recommended RF to friends and family and they do not feel like spending the time to write support tickets and call you and beg for upgrades they are entitled to.

[ellison64]

-{ Quote: "As for security, you need not be worried:

RoboForm is an extremely secure program. Your data itself is encrypted with your master password. You can store that data just on your PC or you can choose our optional Everywhere service. If you choose to sync with Everywhere then the transmission of data is secure as well as the account access is secure.

Your RoboForm Data Files are stored on our RoboForm Everywhere servers and are encrypted (by AES) with your Master Password as the key. Since your Master Password is not stored on our servers, absolutely nobody, including Siber Systems, can access your passwords or other RoboForm data.

Our technology powers software for some of the largest companies in the world. In order for them to use our technology it had to be tested by third-party security companies. Our software has been tested externally by at least three different vendors that I know of.

As for whether we can view your data...the answer is definitely NO. In fact, if you lose or forget your master password there is absolutely no way to recover it. This is an inconvenience for some users, but it is a necessary security measure that we take.

Kindest regards,

Melissa Barker
Siber Systems" }-

Why quote what b2carey_siber has already said in post 126 of this thread and pretend that its your response?.Is it just siber systems way of pretending to be interested in peoples comments here?.If you and your colleagues were really interested ,then you would actually do something for disgruntled 6 users rather than reading a damage limitation script.
ellison

[SirDracula]

-{ Quote: "Why quote what b2carey_siber has already said in post 126 of this thread and pretend that its your response?.Is it just siber systems way of pretending to be interested in peoples comments here?.If you and your colleagues were really interested ,then you would actually do something for disgruntled 6 users rather than reading a damage limitation script.
ellison" }-

Their strategy is to bury the complaints somewhere in the middle of the thread. But I will repeat the two concerns here, to keep them alive:


Long time users of RF6 are unhappy their "Free Upgrades" license (http://web.archive.org/web/20080822215550/www.roboform.com/why-pro.html) has been revoked
There are some security/trust concerns (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1815834&postcount=143) and just taking Siber's word that everything is OK is not good enough

[crofttk]

SirDracula:

THANK YOU for post #136 and articulating exactly how I feel about this whole fiasco - it reflects how my thoughts have evolved since my posts 24 & 26 and I've observed Siber's participation in the thread at such a superficial level and their evasion of impeccability with their word to those who have been impeccably loyal to them.

Time's wasting Siber, and probably a significant part of your pre-existing customers are evaluating the alternatives to being given the bait and switch or simply being forced to put up or shut up.

[Ravenslair]

Found this post a few days ago and opened my own ticket with Siber Systems.

I just submitted a ticket with Siber Systems regarding this whole fiasco. Regarding RoboForm Everywhere, I was told the following:

"RF Evereywhere license includes everything
It includes upgrade to version 7 for both RF and RF2Go
License will do the following:
Allow installation on multiple PCs,flash drives
Allow online synchronization between RFs and Android,IPhone,IPad
Allow usage on Mac"

As a point of reference, I have a license for RFv6 and RF2GOv6 and signed up for RF Online when it was first offered. It sounds like upgrading to Everywhere gets you licenses for the other items. I have an email in to verify that. I was thinking I was going to be out for each product, which was going to force me to LinkPass for sure.

Like all of you, I was an early purchaser of RoboForm when the "Free Upgrades" was offered. We all know what that meant back then. I may have to bite the bullet and pay the $9.95 to get my version upgraded and the $19.95 per year thereafter. I will keep you posted on what the response is.

[SirDracula]

-{ Quote: "
Like all of you, I was an early purchaser of RoboForm when the "Free Upgrades" was offered. We all know what that meant back then. I may have to bite the bullet and pay the $9.95 to get my version upgraded and the $19.95 per year thereafter. I will keep you posted on what the response is." }-

LastPass is FREE if you don't need the Pro features. Roboform claims that the 2nd year will cost $19.95, but based on our recent experience they may hold your passwords hostage and scare you into paying $99.95

LastPass should be able to capitalize on this major fiasco and grab a bunch of customers from RF.

[ellison64]

-{ Quote: "LastPass is FREE if you don't need the Pro features. Roboform claims that the 2nd year will cost $19.95, but based on our recent experience they may hold your passwords hostage and scare you into paying $99.95

LastPass should be able to capitalize on this major fiasco and grab a bunch of customers from RF." }-

Im not so sure.There are many people like myself who are not interested in passwords stored in the cloud but prefer a simple local password solution like the pro version of roboform.The only reason sibersystems have created thr cloud version is to make profit annually.Im sure that they will at some point discontinue the pro version for this reason.I think gambling that people will pay anually for a password filler is a BIG mistake.
ellison

[SirDracula]

There's always KeePass, it may not be as good as RF and you have to mess around with some browser plugins, but the price is right: FREE.

[Johnny123]

-{ Quote: " LastPass should be able to capitalize on this major fiasco and grab a bunch of customers from RF." }-Right. Seems like Siber Systems hasn't noticed that they aren't the only game in town anymore. I switched to LastPass and haven't regretted it at all. It took <10 minutes, works great, no more stress with activations, etc. The upgrade thing still ticks me off, but I'm glad I cut the umbilical cord.

It also amazes me that Melissa posted in this thread, of all things, that you could choose the desktop version for a one-time fee. Déjà vu.....

[ellison64]

-{ Quote: "Right. Seems like Siber Systems hasn't noticed that they aren't the only game in town anymore. I switched to LastPass and haven't regretted it at all. It took <10 minutes, works great, no more stress with activations, etc. The upgrade thing still ticks me off, but I'm glad I cut the umbilical cord.

It also amazes me that Melissa posted in this thread, of all things, that you could choose the desktop version for a one-time fee. Déjà vu....." }-

I think Melissa was an automated response.....so I am not suprised.
ellison

[crofttk]

-{ Quote: "Found this post a few days ago and opened my own ticket with Siber Systems.

I just submitted a ticket with Siber Systems regarding this whole fiasco. Regarding RoboForm Everywhere, I was told the following:

"RF Evereywhere license includes everything
It includes upgrade to version 7 for both RF and RF2Go
License will do the following:
Allow installation on multiple PCs,flash drives
Allow online synchronization between RFs and Android,IPhone,IPad
Allow usage on Mac"

As a point of reference, I have a license for RFv6 and RF2GOv6 and signed up for RF Online when it was first offered. It sounds like upgrading to Everywhere gets you licenses for the other items. I have an email in to verify that. I was thinking I was going to be out for each product, which was going to force me to LinkPass for sure.

Like all of you, I was an early purchaser of RoboForm when the "Free Upgrades" was offered. We all know what that meant back then. I may have to bite the bullet and pay the $9.95 to get my version upgraded and the $19.95 per year thereafter. I will keep you posted on what the response is." }-Emphasis mine.

Upgrades to 7 for RF and RF2Go? I wonder for how long - a year or "for life"?

[SirDracula]

No. It only sounds like it. Paying $9.95 for 1 year of Everywhere requires you to store your passwords online, you cannot use RF Desktop or 2Go and keep your passwords local, on your computer. Pricing for "upgrading" to RF7 Desktop/2Go are below: $19.95 for the 1st license.

http://www.roboform.com/php/pums/rfprepay.php?lang=en&upgrade=yes&lic=upgrade_rf7&currency=USD

I'm putting "upgrading" in quotes because it should be FREE per the v6 license we already bought.

This is a major scam! What are we going to hear next? That our passwords will be posted on public sites if we do not pay? At this point nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to Roboform/Siber. I have lost all my trust in them.

[crofttk]

-{ Quote: "No. It only sounds like it. Paying $9.95 for 1 year of Everywhere requires you to store your passwords online, you cannot use RF Desktop or 2Go and keep your passwords local, on your computer. Pricing for "upgrading" to RF7 Desktop/2Go are below: $19.95 for the 1st license.
..." }-That's how I understood it and why I'm calling into question what seems like yet another misleading or, at best, nebulous assertion from Siber Systems to Ravenslair that purchasing an everywhere license includes a cheaper alternative for RF6 and RF2Go6 licenses (leaving me to hope they are usable independent of everywhere) to be upgraded to 7 - for a year or whatever.

[Ravenslair]

-{ Quote: "....The only reason sibersystems have created thr cloud version is to make profit annually.Im sure that they will at some point discontinue the pro version for this reason.I think gambling that people will pay anually for a password filler is a BIG mistake.
ellison" }-
I agree. I am sure they are moving away from a local version for just that reason and agree it is a BIG mistake.

-{ Quote: "That's how I understood it and why I'm calling into question what seems like yet another misleading or, at best, nebulous assertion from Siber Systems to Ravenslair that purchasing an everywhere license includes a cheaper alternative for RF6 and RF2Go6 licenses (leaving me to hope they are usable independent of everywhere) to be upgraded to 7 - for a year or whatever." }-
The part in quotes in my post was a direct copy of what was sent to me and why I sent in a question to verify what was told to me. As I understand the upgrade page, I would be out $9.95 for Everywhere and $19.95 each for RF7 and RF72GO based on my prior license. That is unacceptable and why I am leaning toward something other than RF.

-{ Quote: "No. It only sounds like it. Paying $9.95 for 1 year of Everywhere requires you to store your passwords online, you cannot use RF Desktop or 2Go and keep your passwords local, on your computer. Pricing for "upgrading" to RF7 Desktop/2Go are below: $19.95 for the 1st license.

http://www.roboform.com/php/pums/rfprepay.php?lang=en&upgrade=yes&lic=upgrade_rf7&currency=USD

I'm putting "upgrading" in quotes because it should be FREE per the v6 license we already bought.

This is a major scam! What are we going to hear next? That our passwords will be posted on public sites if we do not pay? At this point nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to Roboform/Siber. I have lost all my trust in them." }-
See above. The part in my post that was quoted is exactly what was sent to me. I have a question in to verify if this is accurate. My guess is the person did not know what they were saying and misquoted the upgrade costs. I will post when I hear back. And I wholeheartedly agree, all v6 users should get the upgrade for free or at the least, Siber Systems should continue to offer a Firefox Add-On for v6.

-{ Quote: "Emphasis mine.

Upgrades to 7 for RF and RF2Go? I wonder for how long - a year or "for life"?" }-

-{ Quote: "That's how I understood it and why I'm calling into question what seems like yet another misleading or, at best, nebulous assertion from Siber Systems to Ravenslair that purchasing an everywhere license includes a cheaper alternative for RF6 and RF2Go6 licenses (leaving me to hope they are usable independent of everywhere) to be upgraded to 7 - for a year or whatever." }-

Based on the current situation, we all know what they mean and how much they can be trusted! If what I was told is true, I may have to bite the bullet and upgrade for $9.95. That would be a pretty cheap price to be able to upgrade RF6 and RF62GO and be back to full functionality. It would not take away from the fact that I believe they are stabbing v6 users in the back.

-{ Quote: "There's always KeePass, it may not be as good as RF and you have to mess around with some browser plugins, but the price is right: FREE." }-
My problem is work. I cannot install add-ons to work computers so need something that runs from my USB drive.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "
Based on the current situation, we all know what they mean and how much they can be trusted! If what I was told is true, I may have to bite the bullet and upgrade for $9.95. That would be a pretty cheap price to be able to upgrade RF6 and RF62GO and be back to full functionality. It would not take away from the fact that I believe they are stabbing v6 users in the back." }-
There are now two options available and they are as follows:

Plan A: RoboForm Anywhere: Present plan is an initial fee of $9.95 for the first year and then $19.95 for every year thereafter for each account. This amount can be raised in future. You can cancel the plan anytime and revert to Plan B. The data is kept in the cloud and you can sync as many desktops, laptops and USB drives. Therefore, you will be accessing your data from the cloud on each device.

Plan B: Each desktop, laptop and/or USB device requires a separate license. The first license is for $29.95 and those who want to upgrade from version 6, the first license is for $19.95, and you still retain the license for the version 6. Each additional license is for $9.95 to $19.95 based on the promotion they are running. This allows for as many users (accounts) for each device. You can still sync your data in the cloud for free if you want to, as you did in the past. If you initially had two license for version 6, then you have to buy two license for version 7.

Best regards,

KOR!

[Tony]

Roboform should have kept the free upgrades for the desktop versions and then put their new yearly fees/subscriptions for Roboform Anywhere.
This is similar to the license for Lastpass and would have been a much better way of introducing the new range of Roboform products.
I think the marketing side of Roboform have really shot themselves in the foot here especially with Lastpass being so good and $7 a year cheaper for their premium license.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "Roboform should have kept the free upgrades for the desktop versions and then put their new yearly fees/subscriptions for Roboform Anywhere.
This is similar to the license for Lastpass and would have been a much better way of introducing the new range of Roboform products.
I think the marketing side of Roboform have really shot themselves in the foot here especially with Lastpass being so good and $7 a year cheaper for their premium license." }-
Very true!

They still have a chance to redeem themselves, by honoring the word and legal liability to the version 6 owners. Let the owners of version 6 to upgrade for free now and lifetime and refund those who have already paid for version 7.

They can charge for RoboForm Anywhere as it is a new product. Also, they don't have to give the lifetime upgrade deal to the new owners of version 7, as they are allowed to change their marketing policies for new owners, but not for the old owners of version 6.

Best regards,

KOR!

[smee00]

In a support ticket Silber Systems offered me a free upgrade to v7 for one of my v6 licences, (originally purchased before 2008), furthermore SS did not elaborate on what it would cost to upgrade my other v6 lifetime licence and then the cost to buy further copies of RF v7 which I was intending to buy.

I have refused to take up this offer so far until the dust has settled on this licensing conditions shuffle.

I also have other SS products, 2 x GoodSync licences, but no linger feel like a valued customer.

Marketing policy should attract repeat custom, not repel it!

[Tony]

-{ Quote: "Very true!

They still have a chance to redeem themselves, by honoring the word and legal liability to the version 6 owners. Let the owners of version 6 to upgrade for free now and lifetime and refund those who have already paid for version 7.

They can charge for RoboForm Anywhere as it is a new product. Also, they don't have to give the lifetime upgrade deal to the new owners of version 7, as they are allowed to change their marketing policies for new owners, but not for the old owners of version 6.

Best regards,

KOR!" }-

Exactly mate they could easily have done away with lifetime upgrades for new subscribers from version 7 onwards.
I admire people like tzuk who stuck to his word with the Sandboxie lifetime license, i understand he had to change his licensing policy just as Roboform have had to change theirs, but he did it for new subscribers only and he did it in the correct manner.

I still feel though that maybe Roboform could have kept the lifetime license for the desktop program and had a yearly subscription for the Anywhere product as i think with so many people now using Iphones, Android devices and Linux, then in the cloud password technology is definitely the future.

Anyway, as i now primarily use Linux on my desktop and netbook, Android for my handheld device, i only use Lastpass as it is so much better.

Oh, and cheaper ;)

[Escalader]

Somebody out there must be nuts or something or thinks I am. I have a license to AI RoboForm and the desktop paid for it years ago. Now they want me to pay again? For what?

This vendor wants me to store MY passwords on his servers?

Call it a cloud call it whatever you like , I call it careless.

If you are using these products and are worried about the motivation of the vendor and the integrity of his code stealing your passwords, then for g...d sakes do something about it NOW.

To help my fellow paranoid members here and I say that as a point of pride8) here are the siber exe's and their location.

C:\Program Files (x86)\Siber Systems\AI RoboForm


identities.exe
passcards.exe
passwordgenerator.exe
rfwipeout.exe
robota itskbaricon.exe
safenotes.exe


Go to them all and use your 2 way FW to block all their outbound connections while we search for a replacement tool. Mine is done!

No clouds thanks very much!
No double charges or paying again.

H.ll, I can put them all on my USB stick in a password protected Excel file and encrypt them all anyway. You can use the windows desktop keyboard to enter the password anyway!

Now that I think of it I like that idea better anyway.

No excel? Do same thing in notebook, every body has that.

I'm done with reliance on these vendors who manipulate security software.

[Ravenslair]

Here is Siber System's reply to my question:

**** replied (2011/01/22 04:01 am EST)
Yes, correct. RoboForm Everywhere license suits both, RoboForm 7 Everywhere and RoboForm2Go. It is licensed per RoboForm User Data profile synchronized with the RoboForm Everywhere account.

You wrote (2011/01/21 05:17 pm EST)
OK. Just to clarify so we are both clear. If I pay the $9.95 this year ($19.95 each year thereafter), I get a license that allows me to upgrade my current RF v6 and RF2GO v6 to RF7 and RF2GO7?

That $19.95 per year gets me upgrades to any future releases correct?

I would like to think this is accurate, but I think KOR has it right. I am going to send a follow up and clarify that point. I will keep you posted.

[crofttk]

-{ Quote: "Here is Siber System's reply to my question:

**** replied (2011/01/22 04:01 am EST)
Yes, correct. RoboForm Everywhere license suits both, RoboForm 7 Everywhere and RoboForm2Go. It is licensed per RoboForm User Data profile synchronized with the RoboForm Everywhere account.

You wrote (2011/01/21 05:17 pm EST)
OK. Just to clarify so we are both clear. If I pay the $9.95 this year ($19.95 each year thereafter), I get a license that allows me to upgrade my current RF v6 and RF2GO v6 to RF7 and RF2GO7?

That $19.95 per year gets me upgrades to any future releases correct?

I would like to think this is accurate, but I think KOR has it right. I am going to send a follow up and clarify that point. I will keep you posted." }-Thanks, Ravenslair. Yeah... "suits" - probably just means is compatible with or works alongside or something like that. We'll see what they respond with. More obfuscation perhaps? :-\

[Escalader]

Hello again:

I feel I have an obligation to post to the thread this observation of windows hooking activity:

7:41:11 PM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll

Even though the FW blocked it there was no loss of function from roboform.

I have no explanation for you guys, it is up to the vendor to explain.

Here is my data on version:

Copyright (C) 1999-2010 Siber Systems Inc.
RoboForm (R) Version 6.10.1 (en-english, ENC) Sep 24 2010 13:53:58
PRO version, 429 days since first install: RoboForm2Go(Port)

[SirDracula]

Note that RF can use your browser (because it is a plugin/addon/toolbar) to connect to their servers and your firewall won't even alert you, assuming your browser is already allowed.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "I would like to think this is accurate, but I think KOR has it right. I am going to send a follow up and clarify that point. I will keep you posted." }-
Dear Ravenslair,

I bought my 2 licenses for RoboForm 7 in lieu of 2 licenses of RoboForm 6, while RoboForm 7 was still in beta form, as suddenly there was no add-on provided for Firefox 4 beta 5.

So I wrote to them and they said that since I was testing RoboForm 7 beta for a while now, my testing period was over. They said I can revert back to RoboForm 6 and with no add-on capability for Firefox beta 5 and onward or buy RoboForm 7, while still in beta. So, I bought RoboForm 7 still in beta. Read my posts on the very first page of this thread.

In their email they explained to me as I have explained above. Their flawed and BS reasoning for this is that in the past the family of four shared one PC with four user accounts. Now each member of the family has more than one PC, thus requires his/her user account to sync between two computers. There are lots of syncing programs both cloud and non-cloud. I use Dropbox.

Kind regards,

KOR!

[Ravenslair]

Alright, I heard back from Siber Systems. KOR, I hope you do not mind, but I used your examples as part my questions.

**** replied (2011/01/22 11:11 pm EST)
RoboForm Everywhere should be activated only if there is internet connection available. You can use it locally then, but it will try to sync from time to time to update the changes in the online account.
As for the licensing - you understood correctly.

You wrote (2011/01/22 01:15 pm EST)
OK, another point of clarification. If I pay the $9.95 for Everywhere, I get licenses to RF7 and RF72GO. Can those be used offline or do I require a 100% constant connection to Everywhere for them to work? In other words, here are the two options as I see them:

Option A: RoboForm Everywhere: Present plan is an initial fee of $9.95 for the first year and then $19.95 for every year thereafter for each account. The data is kept in the cloud and I can sync as many desktops, laptops and USB drives. Therefore, I will be accessing my data from the cloud on each device.

Option B: Purchase a separate license for RF7 and RF72GO. I can still sync my data in the cloud for free if I want to, as have done in the past, but also have access to it locally.

I just want to make sure I can manipulate my information locally as I have always done and not always rely on the cloud. What if Siber Systems changes their policy down the road? Will I have my data locally?

Thanks again.

So, it appears paying for Everywhere gets you the license(s) required for RF7 and RF72GO unless I am misreading the reply I got. Does anyone read the reply differently?..... After rereading the response I got, I am actually sending another followup email to clarify it further. The last comment regarding licensing makes me think I would have to purchase all products. I will hopefully have an answer tomorrow.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "So, it appears paying for Everywhere gets you the license(s) required for RF7 and RF72GO unless I am misreading the reply I got. Does anyone read the reply differently?..... After rereading the response I got, I am actually sending another followup email to clarify it further. The last comment regarding licensing makes me think I would have to purchase all products. I will hopefully have an answer tomorrow." }-
Dear Ravenslair,

My answer is still correct. To activate the RoboForm Everywhere on any device, you need to activate it through the internet, through your user account. After one year if you decide you don't want to pay for RoboForm Everywhere, your devices will revert to "Free Version" and you won't be able to save anymore data. You can use what data you have saved on your local system.

This is what happened to me when I tried to save data in RoboForm 7 beta in Firefox 4 beta 5, as RoboForm 7 beta reverted back to "Free Version". See my posts on the very first page of this thread.

You have to pay next year, and every year thereafter for RoboForm Everywhere and there is no way to getting around it.

Whereas, RoboForm 7 desktop and RoboForm 7 2Go, you only pay once until their try to sock you again by releasing RoboForm 8.

Best regards,

KOR!

P.S. They have kept things mussy so that people keep on guessing and eventually give up by paying for the upgrade to RoboForm 7.

[Ravenslair]

KOR, thanks for the reply. I will also reread your post on the first page. Here is the reply I already got to my latest question:

**** replied (2011/01/23 02:33 am EST)
We recommend Option1. One license suits all devices and PCs and USB drives and allows to have your RoboForm User Data profile be synchronized with RoboForm Everywhere account.

You wrote (2011/01/23 02:08 am EST)
OK, I think we are speaking around one another. I need to be crystal clear. Here is my current setup/installation:

-RF v6 on my desktop
-RF2GO v6 on my USB drive
-RoboForm Online account for keeping desktop and USB drive in sync

I want the exact same setup as I have now, which would be:

-RF v7 on my desktop
-RF2GO v7 on my USB drive
-RoboForm Online account for keeping desktop and USB drive in sync

Which option below will allow me to do this:
Option 1 - Purchase RoboForm Everywhere
Option 2 - Purchase RF v7 and RF2GO v7 and continue using RoboForm Online for syncing only
Option 3 - Purchase RF v7, RF2GO v7 and RoboForm Everywhere

Option 1 would be $9.95 for the first year and $19.95 each year thereafter
Option 2 would be $39.90
Option 3 would be $49.85

Thanks again. This should make it crystal clear on what it would cost me to continue using RoboForm.

So it looks as though you are correct KOR. As long as I keep paying the piper each year, I can continue using all the features. Once I stop, I get stuck paying for RF and RF2GO v7 anyway. Like you said, until they pull the same thing again with v8. Looks like Option 2 is going to be the way to go for me.

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "KOR, thanks for the reply. I will also reread your post on the first page. Here is the reply I already got to my latest question:

Option 1 would be $9.95 for the first year and $19.95 each year thereafter" }-
There is no guarantee, if they decided to raise the $19.95 each year, to let's say to $29.95 each year. The above is the present plan and not the future plan.

-{ Quote: "Option 2 would be $39.90" }-
This option total cost to me was $29.90 for two licenses. As a RoboForm 6 user the first license cost me $19.95 and the second license $9.95.

-{ Quote: "Option 3 would be $49.85" }-
This option is redundant. It will cost $49.95 now and $19.95 every year to keep using RoboForm Everywhere after one year.

-{ Quote: "So it looks as though you are correct KOR. As long as I keep paying the piper each year, I can continue using all the features. Once I stop, I get stuck paying for RF and RF2GO v7 anyway. Like you said, until they pull the same thing again with v8." }-
I paid for version 7 as I didn't have any choice if I wanted to use RoboForm. I am thinking of class action suit.

1. If we accept the new licensing terms, then the licensing terms of RoboForm 6 are no longer valid. Therefore, anytime they want us to pay any more money, they will come out with new version.

2. They can counter that you have already bought version 7 and new terms already apply. This will not work as they didn't leave any choice for RoboForm to work without proper add-ons. These add-ons were/are no longer given to the owners of version 6.

3. Version 6 terms says, any future upgrades. RoboForm 7 is an upgrade.

Best regards,

KOR!

[Woodgiant]

Hey everybody.
It has been a while since I have posted in this thread but I write again because there is something I want to draw attention to. If you decide to buy a Roboform everywhere licens, please notice the courtesy, that Roboform have check the automatic renewal box, of your annual licens. So you don't have to. :ouch:
I know it is standard practice for some companies, but I guess that there are some customers who do not notice this box. For me that kind of aggressive marketing strategy is not okay, "JMHO"

Regards Woodgiant.

[Escalader]

As I have AI RoboForm blocked by my FW/HIPS, from doing bad things like unnecessary windows hooking here is some "proof" of the vendor activity we don't appreciate:

It attempted a hook while attaching to FF it got blocked from hooking YET the attachment still worked fine. Ergo why hook?

Buyer beware!

[King of Rapture]

-{ Quote: "As I have AI RoboForm blocked by my FW/HIPS, from doing bad things like unnecessary windows hooking here is some "proof" of the vendor activity we don't appreciate:

It attempted a hook while attaching to FF it got blocked from hooking YET the attachment still worked fine. Ergo why hook?

Buyer beware!" }-
Dear Escalader,

Can you please explain it further in layman terms?

Many thanks in advance!

Best regards,

KOR!

[Johnny123]

-{ Quote: "It attempted a hook while attaching to FF it got blocked from hooking YET the attachment still worked fine. Ergo why hook?" }-
Why don't you ask them? The email address is in the message box.

If you don't trust them then uninstall it, but I don't think paranoia is called for here. They are a well-known company and if I understand correctly they do have quite a few corporate customers. Building in backdoors or stealing logins from users would be much more catastrophic for their business than their backpedaling on the lifetime licenses.

I switched to LastPass, but not because I was worried about Roboform reading my passwords.

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "Dear Escalader,

Can you please explain it further in layman terms?

Many thanks in advance!

Best regards,

KOR!" }-

Sure, when this 3rd party tools vendor start thinking that putting MY passwords into a www based cloud I get concerned. Some may call that paranoid that is fine with me.

So I decided to tighten up control on RoboForm which as I posted earlier I have used for some years.

I wanted to ensure that RoboForm did NOT have any ability in any of the executables I listed to send data(passwords) back to their WWW site(s).

The way this is done is to add rules to your Firewall software to block ALL outbound connections for those executables.

If you are not yet conversant with Firewalls read and study the stickies at the top of the Other Firewalls here at Wilder's.

Hope that helps.

[Ravenslair]

-{ Quote: "...This option total cost to me was $29.90 for two licenses. As a RoboForm 6 user the first license cost me $19.95 and the second license $9.95...." }-

I bit the bullet as I needed the functionality in FF4. I was able to purchase RF v7 for $19.95, but cannot purchase a second license for RF2GO v7 for any less than $19.95. As far as I can tell, they are treating that as a standalone and not an additional license. Looks like I am going to be out another $19.95 when my work upgrades FF3 to FF4 (which luckily is a ways down the road). I had to get home working again though.

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "Why don't you ask them? The email address is in the message box.

If you don't trust them then uninstall it, but I don't think paranoia is called for here. They are a well-known company and if I understand correctly they do have quite a few corporate customers. Building in backdoors or stealing logins from users would be much more catastrophic for their business than their backpedaling on the lifetime licenses.

I switched to LastPass, but not because I was worried about Roboform reading my passwords." }-

Hi:

Here are todays block records for RoboForm. Please note they are all from roboform.dll.

Again these blocks do zip to me as a user. All still works.

So I ask RoboForm here why do they hook?

I have NOT asked the vendor on their site because I have a question to them some months old they ignored.

Otherwise I would ask them as you suggest. They need a push.



1:36:33 PM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll
12:42:41 PM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll
10:37:04 AM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll
9:54:04 AM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll
9:28:19 AM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll
8:42:12 AM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll
7:42:32 AM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll
7:15:18 AM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll
6:49:18 AM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll
6:30:55 AM Block ROBOTASKBARICON.EXE Window hooking c:\program files (x86)\siber systems\ai roboform\roboform.dll

[Bambo]

May be it has to do with the new feature in 7 which can control password in all applications, not just browsers. Or not but keep that in mind if you find other mysterious hooks :) Kind of the idea with RoboForm, not unnecessary.

Before 7 a program called Goodsync was used for the evil cloud. Now also build in. Have you considered this has effect on what you detect?

[firebrand]

I'm ~ Snipped as per TOS (https://www.wilderssecurity.com/faq.php?faq=wilders_tos#faq_wilders_tos_1) ~ about the change of terms for previous purchasers. I don't care so much that the change was made without any notice - that may be bad business, but it's not dishonest. I care that this change was made retroactively. I bought multiple licenses based on the written understanding that they were perpetual. Free upgrades means free upgrades, not free until Suber Systems changes its mind.

If they want to change that moving forward, then that's fine - for those who choose to buy under the new terms. But what they've done to pre-existing purchasers seems fraudulent to me.

I actually think $10-15 per year is pretty reasonable for what they're offering (multiple devices via the cloud). However, I don't want to use the cloud. I want to use Windows Live Mesh, which uses P2P and keeps my data on my machines. As well as avoiding the cloud, it also allows me to share a subset of passcards with my wife (banking and bill sites, but not message board logins etc.)

To do this means re-upping for multiple copies of RoboForm Desktop all over again, at a cost if $120 (6 licenses). I suppose that isn't too bad amortized over , say, 9 years, but who knows how many new versions will come out in that time requiring repurchase yet again. The desktop version is way too expensive relative to the online version, and infinitely too much for an upgrade that was promised for free…

But Siber Systems has lost my trust, so I'm off to try out LastPass Premium, at $12 a year. Unfortunately, that too means cloud, but at least they have a Windows Phone 7 client, unlike RoboForm.

[smee00]

I have just being doing some testing with RF 7.2.8 PRO

I have always used GoodSync to sync my RF data on my local server.

In RoboForm PRO 7 they have not accommodated for loyal customers who bought GoodSync. The ability to use the sync button in RF PRO is missing, this means that RF PRO has been downgraded.
This the sync button is only available for Everywhere users, strange if I sync to a location not managed by RF HQ.