Opera 11 = Extensions

[rdsu]

It seems that next version of Opera will have the most expected feature on it!!!

Opera 11 and extensions (http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/10/14/opera-11-and-extensions)

-{ Quote: "We have today showcased some cool new stuff at our yearly press event Up North Web.

For desktop we have showcased extensions which will be part of the Opera 11 release.
Opera has always been very customizable and now we make than even better by allowing developers to extend Opera's rich feature set even further.

The upcoming Opera 11 alpha will be based on the current Opera 10.70 builds, which also means we will not ship a 10.70 final." }-
This will lead much more popularity to Opera...

[Links added after initial post:]
Opera 11 will have extensions (http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/2010/10/14/opera-11-will-have-extensions)
The Video Demo of Opera 11 Alpha (http://www.favbrowser.com/the-video-demo-of-opera-11-alpha/)

[rdsu]

More info:

Opera 11 will have extensions (http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/2010/10/14/opera-11-will-have-extensions)

[andyman35]

Excellent news.I'd guess that the single most requested feature has been for the addition of true extensions.:thumb:

[nanana1]

Ha...the Fastest browser now gets better.;D

[PRUHDG]

The only extension I need for opera is Modifyheaders like that of FF.;D

[firzen771]

if opera gets extensions and enuff devs make extensions for it (like the FF ones i use, ESPECIALLY a dedicated lastpass extension comprable to the one in FF) then Opera will be my new official browser of choice ;D

[dw426]

Now if they would have just done this, oh, let's say a year or more ago, maybe they would be on more machines by now? This is good, don't get me wrong, and anything beats the hell out of the fail that is widgets. But, they are a bit late to the party, and, have no one to blame but themselves if this move fails to light a fire under more people. Ad-blocking and a "NoScript" add-on should be the very first move made by add-on developers. They also need to not pull the same stunt Chrome does with that whole "Due to Google not making available certain APIs or functions, this add-on will not work fully". It needs to be all or nothing, IMHO. If they do that, they will go a long way towards finally having people care about Opera, which in turn will make using the web in Opera not so much a trial and error experience as it is now.

I will certainly be watching this extremely closely.

[zapjb]

As a longtime Opera user. Since v6 at least. I am only for extensions if Opera vets them all, unlike Firefox. I don't want the most secure browser in the world turned into a swiss cheese browser. :ouch:

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "As a longtime Opera user. Since v6 at least. I am only for extensions if Opera vets them all, unlike Firefox. I don't want the most secure browser in the world turned into a swiss cheese browser. :ouch:" }-

Extensions can only cause the "swiss cheese" effect if you install them. And, in some cases such as Adblock Plus and NoScript, extensions can fill those holes up. An extension by itself can't harm security, it's crap coders and intentional maliciousness by the developer of an extension that does that. Also, if the vendor itself creates all the add-ons, I can guarantee that users will end up not being happy. Either they won't get extensions that add functions they want, or, if they do, it won't work the way they want it to. Users are the only ones who know what users want, leaving it up to the vendor will result in complaints and nightmares for Opera devs.

[rdsu]

More info for your doubts:

The Video Demo of Opera 11 Alpha (http://www.favbrowser.com/the-video-demo-of-opera-11-alpha/)

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "More info for your doubts:

The Video Demo of Opera 11 Alpha (http://www.favbrowser.com/the-video-demo-of-opera-11-alpha/)" }-

And doubts I do have now. They were right, it does look more like widgets than actual extensions so far. That being said, we'll see what happens. That weather "extension" made me cringe, it took up a huge part of the webpage. Information from extensions should not be plastered all over the page you are viewing, it should be small but easily readable, and confined to either the bottom or top corners of the browser, IMHO. Most of what I got out of the guy answering the questions was "those answers are above my pay grade", lol. I didn't agree with the comment regarding security and speed problems with Firefox extensions, and I don't say that as a fanboy. It stands to reason that there will be malicious extension developers, and it stands to reason that if you load 20, 30 or more extensions, you're going to see speed issues. Opera can't "perfect" that.

[nanana1]

-{ Quote: "Extensions can only cause the "swiss cheese" effect if you install them. And, in some cases such as Adblock Plus and NoScript, extensions can fill those holes up. An extension by itself can't harm security, it's crap coders and intentional maliciousness by the developer of an extension that does that. Also, if the vendor itself creates all the add-ons, I can guarantee that users will end up not being happy. Either they won't get extensions that add functions they want, or, if they do, it won't work the way they want it to. Users are the only ones who know what users want, leaving it up to the vendor will result in complaints and nightmares for Opera devs." }-

Fancy those comments when is not a frequent user.:-X

I don't want any new Adblock extensions. Opera's urlfilter adblock is the simplest and the best adblock I can find.;D

[firzen771]

-{ Quote: "Fancy those comments when is not a frequent user.:-X

I don't want any new Adblock extensions. Opera's urlfilter adblock is the simplest and the best adblock I can find.;D" }-

thats the beauty of extensions, nobody forces u to install them... so i dont see how this can be something to complain about really, people who dont want extensions can simply not use them and continue as if nothing changed

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "Fancy those comments when is not a frequent user.:-X

I don't want any new Adblock extensions. Opera's urlfilter adblock is the simplest and the best adblock I can find.;D" }-

I wondered when one of you would show up to start the defense. What does my not being on-board the Opera train have to do with my comments? You don't have to be a browser fanboy or a hater to understand and see the logic behind what I said. As said, if you don't want a different Ad-Block, you don't have to use it.

[nanana1]

-{ Quote: "thats the beauty of extensions, nobody forces u to install them... so i dont see how this can be something to complain about really, people who dont want extensions can simply not use them and continue as if nothing changed" }-

That's an assumption that nothing changed. If there is an Adblock extension, the simple and easy urlfilter option MAY be removed. Let's see.;D

[firzen771]

-{ Quote: "That's an assumption that nothing changed. If there is an Adblock extension, the simple and easy urlfilter option MAY be removed. Let's see.;D" }-

well why not wait to see that before complaining about something thats not even in existance yet let alone ever being stated anywer...

[nanana1]

-{ Quote: "well why not wait to see that before complaining about something thats not even in existance yet let alone ever being stated anywer..." }-

Haha...me not complaining at all. It's the other person that's complaining even though he doesn't use much of Opera.;)

[nanana1]

-{ Quote: "And doubts I do have now. They were right, it does look more like widgets than actual extensions so far. That being said, we'll see what happens. That weather "extension" made me cringe, it took up a huge part of the webpage. Information from extensions should not be plastered all over the page you are viewing, it should be small but easily readable, and confined to either the bottom or top corners of the browser, IMHO. Most of what I got out of the guy answering the questions was "those answers are above my pay grade", lol. I didn't agree with the comment regarding security and speed problems with Firefox extensions, and I don't say that as a fanboy. It stands to reason that there will be malicious extension developers, and it stands to reason that if you load 20, 30 or more extensions, you're going to see speed issues. Opera can't "perfect" that." }-

Why are you complaining so much ?:P

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "Why are you complaining so much ?:P" }-
Why are you trying so hard to stop people from offering their opinion?

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "Why are you complaining so much ?:P" }-

Wow, you really have to ask that? By the way, I'm not "complaining", I first called you out for taking me to task for commenting about EXTENSIONS and when my reply didn't even involve you. Second, I don't recall any requirement of using software before one could comment on it, though, again, I wasn't speaking of your precious Opera, but extensions in general. I know these Opera threads are hallowed ground seemingly, but get off it. I've learned through here that you don't win arguments with Opera nuts, so this will be my last reply to you personally. Enjoy your evening.

[nanana1]

-{ Quote: "Why are you trying so hard to stop people from offering their opinion?" }-

Me not trying to stop people from sharing their thoughts ;D but there are a few of these notorious few members here :lurking: including yourself whose "opinions" if that's how you called them, are better off not shared.:-X

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "Me not trying to stop people from sharing their thoughts ;D but there are a few of these notorious few members here :lurking: including yourself whose "opinions" if that's how you called them, are better off not shared.:-X" }-
A commendable attempt at playing thought police, but I believe the job of deciding who gets to post what is up to the moderators, not the Opera fanboiz.

[nanana1]

-{ Quote: "A commendable attempt at playing thought police, but I believe the job of deciding who gets to post what is up to the moderators, not the Opera fanboiz." }-

Wrong. These notorious few including you decide what you want to post, not the moderators.:-X

You've distracted this thread enough. Who's playing ?:P

Now back to this thread discussion.8)

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "Wrong. These notorious few including you decide what you want to post, not the moderators.:-X " }-
And the mods decide which posts stay. Either way, it's got nothing to do with you.

-{ Quote: "You've distracted this thread enough. Who's playing ?:P

Now back to this thread discussion.8)" }-
Sure, the same old act of calling for peace and order. Wow you're such a nice guy aren't you... except that you were the one who started the distractions via ad hominem attacks on people who were peacefully discussing the topic in the first place.

Again, nice try.

[nanana1]

:shifty:

Back to this discussion thread.:thumb:

[guest]

More explanation regarding Opera 11 extensions: http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/2010/10/14/opera-11-will-have-extensions

And an interesting comment found there:

---------------

"Firefox is (not openly) trying to find a way to move away from extensions.

They are trying:
- "soft extensions" through Jetpack.
- "hardcoding" like "Inspector" (same as Dragonfly) instead of "Firebug" or "Personas".

They discovered that 99% extensions are poorly coded and it is impossible to supervise them and the side effect is people installing tons of crap than complaining Firefox is slow or crashes."

---------------

[Eice]

From the official blog posts and comments, it seems that Opera's extensions system will mimic Chrome/Safari more than it will Firefox. Unless Opera screws up big time somewhere, it's fairly safe to assume that Opera won't suffer from the same drawbacks that Firefox does.

Personally I'm glad to see Opera doing the right thing after years of insisting that it doesn't need extensions. Perhaps it'll also be possible to develop a good debugging tool as an extension instead of forcing web devs to use Dragonfly; that, and other extensions, will hopefully be enough for Opera to finally become a "mainstream" browser.

[vasa1]

-{ Quote: "More explanation regarding Opera 11 extensions: http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog...ave-extensions
..." }-

Currently giving a 404.:'(

But this is good enough:
http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/

[rdsu]

@guest, that link is already in first post...

About extensions, I think Opera already has almost need features for a browser, but the extension feature will let other users to customize it for their needs and preferences, so I don't have nothing against extensions.

At least Opera will let the users to decide what they want... :)

I just hope that can be possible to make the extensions as a standard, so we can use extensions from other browsers, but will be not easy if the other browsers doesn't cooperate on this...

[firzen771]

-{ Quote: "From the official blog posts and comments, it seems that Opera's extensions system will mimic Chrome/Safari more than it will Firefox. Unless Opera screws up big time somewhere, it's fairly safe to assume that Opera won't suffer from the same drawbacks that Firefox does.

Personally I'm glad to see Opera doing the right thing after years of insisting that it doesn't need extensions. Perhaps it'll also be possible to develop a good debugging tool as an extension instead of forcing web devs to use Dragonfly; that, and other extensions, will hopefully be enough for Opera to finally become a "mainstream" browser." }-

possibly, but i hope it doesnt get Chromes negatives with extensions either, as in being more limited in their abilities compared to native firefox extensions and not being able to organize the extensions where u want them to be (this is my biggest annoyance with chrome, all the extensions u have just lineup next to the address bar and u cant do anything about them)

long as opera doesnt have those 2 drawbacks then it sounds good

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "possibly, but i hope it doesnt get Chromes negatives with extensions either, as in being more limited in their abilities compared to native firefox extensions and not being able to organize the extensions where u want them to be (this is my biggest annoyance with chrome, all the extensions u have just lineup next to the address bar and u cant do anything about them)

long as opera doesnt have those 2 drawbacks then it sounds good" }-
As far as the first negative is concerned, the alternative is worse. Firefox exposes all its browser internals to its extensions system, which allows for some very powerful extensions. But it's like allowing every program you install on your PC to hook the OS kernel. When you take a moment to think about it, that's ridiculous, really, because 95% of extensions simply do not require that much access privileges to deliver their functionality.

The Chrome/Safari model allows for less powerful extensions, but the benefits are enormous. By only exposing a selected set of APIs instead of allowing extensions to tamper with the browser directly, extensions are unlikely to introduce security, stability, and performance issues, where in extreme cases a single extension has been known to result in a 40-50% decrease in speed. They're also less likely to stop working every time you upgrade your browser. And despite this, it's still possible to provide a wide range of functionality if your set of exposed APIs is carefully chosen. Mozilla knows this; it's the reason they're working on the Jetpack SDK to provide a Chrome/Safari-like extensions system.

As far as I'm concerned, Opera is on the right track by not following Firefox's approach.

[firzen771]

-{ Quote: "As far as the first negative is concerned, the alternative is worse. Firefox exposes all its browser internals to its extensions system, which allows for some very powerful extensions. But it's like allowing every program you install on your PC to hook the OS kernel. When you take a moment to think about it, that's ridiculous, really, because 95% of extensions simply do not require that much access privileges to deliver their functionality.

The Chrome/Safari model allows for less powerful extensions, but the benefits are enormous. By only exposing a selected set of APIs instead of allowing extensions to tamper with the browser directly, extensions are unlikely to introduce security, stability, and performance issues, where in extreme cases a single extension has been known to result in a 40-50% decrease in speed. They're also less likely to stop working every time you upgrade your browser. And despite this, it's still possible to provide a wide range of functionality if your set of exposed APIs is carefully chosen. Mozilla knows this; it's the reason they're working on the Jetpack SDK to provide a Chrome/Safari-like extensions system.

As far as I'm concerned, Opera is on the right track by not following Firefox's approach." }-

hey, if they can acheive the same functionality with addons like Adblock Plus, ghostery, lastpass etc that firefox has but with tightened security measures then im all for it, its wen they start putting out crippled extensions because of the limited API's they are provided that it bumbs me out, so i hope Opera gives the devs the necessary API's they need to create fully functional firefox addon alternatives while still having that increased security if possible.

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "hey, if they can acheive the same functionality with addons like Adblock Plus, ghostery, lastpass etc that firefox has but with tightened security measures then im all for it, its wen they start putting out crippled extensions because of the limited API's they are provided that it bumbs me out, so i hope Opera gives the devs the necessary API's they need to create fully functional firefox addon alternatives while still having that increased security if possible." }-

That's the big question, is Opera willing to "open itself up", so to speak, to allow maximum functionality, and, will it in turn decrease security. Are they willing to go with it if it decreases security? The current method Firefox uses may not be safe, but extensions that need to work fully, do. In Chrome, it's a crapshoot. Responsibility is also in the hands of the extension developers. I can only cross my fingers and hope Opera does the right thing here. They've got a lot of work to do, in my eyes. The "widget-like" appearance has to go, and, I simply won't stand for extension information taking up half my screen.

That's the benefit of Firefox extensions, with exception to toolbars and such, Firefox extensions are almost always out of the way, tucked into a corner with a small, but readable icon. And, the information is kept either up or down in a corner, again, in a small, but readable form. The security might not be there, but the visual aspect, the thing the general population of users care about, is. As said, the benefit of Chrome extensions is that they aren't given an "all access pass", but, it comes with the price of half-working extensions a lot of times. That's something users aren't going to want to deal with.

It's a balancing act for sure, but if Opera can pull it off, they stand to gain a lot of respect and, more importantly, a lot of new users.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "That's the big question, is Opera willing to "open itself up", so to speak, to allow maximum functionality, and, will it in turn decrease security. Are they willing to go with it if it decreases security? The current method Firefox uses may not be safe, but extensions that need to work fully, do. In Chrome, it's a crapshoot." }-
On this topic, I'm surprised that nobody hasn't mentioned the original and, to date, still the most powerful extensions system yet: ActiveX. In fact, the problem was that it was TOO powerful, and we've all seen how that turned out.

[Daveski17]

The Video Demo of Opera 11 Alpha (http://www.favbrowser.com/the-video-demo-of-opera-11-alpha/)

[rdsu]

-{ Quote: "The Video Demo of Opera 11 Alpha (http://www.favbrowser.com/the-video-demo-of-opera-11-alpha/)" }-
Already in the first post!

[Daveski17]

-{ Quote: "Already in the first post!" }-

Doh! Sorry ... :blink:

[progress]

-{ Quote: "But, they are a bit late to the party, and, have no one to blame but themselves if this move fails to light a fire under more people. Ad-blocking and a "NoScript" add-on should be the very first move made by add-on developers." }-

I think it's too late now - if you like extensions use Firefox or Chrome! Opera will never become popular ... :-\

[CogitoTesting]

-{ Quote: "I think it's too late now - if you like extensions use Firefox or Chrome! Opera will never become popular ... :-\" }-

Never say Never.

Thanks.

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "I think it's too late now - if you like extensions use Firefox or Chrome! Opera will never become popular ... :-\" }-

I don't know about "never", I personally want to see them succeed...I bet a few people here weren't expecting that! The more we have to choose from, the better, and the better browsers will become as they fight it out to remain on top. Look what Firefox and Chrome have finally done to IE, what Chrome did to Firefox. All three are great choices, with slight differences making one preferable to an individual user over another. Opera software isn't Opera's problem, it's marketing. Yes, to me Opera has a few issues, but overall, it's one sturdy little sucker with a LOT of tweaking options..perhaps too many?

I think this extension deal is either going to finally get them some good coverage or it will just be another "also ran" in the next "browser war" story in the media. The marketing department has to get off of their thumbs though, the U.S market is extremely important, IMHO. When the marketing department does their job properly, it will be up to users as to whether Opera finally gets its day in the sunshine.

Edit: By the way, I don't "like" extensions themselves, but find ABP much too good to not use, and sadly Noscript has become one of those "must haves". BUT, build both of those abilities (truly functional and powerful, not watered down or crippled) into the browser, any browser, and you start being able to move away from extensions. Those are just two examples, I know, but they are by far the most popular extensions. The rest, IMHO, fall into the "personal preference" category.

[Daveski17]

-{ Quote: "By the way, I don't "like" extensions themselves, but find ABP much too good to not use, and sadly Noscript has become one of those "must haves". BUT, build both of those abilities (truly functional and powerful, not watered down or crippled) into the browser, any browser, and you start being able to move away from extensions. " }-

K-Meleon has an built-in adblocker & if it had an internal No-Script & didn't break so many pages these days it would be almost perfect (well, that & a good spell-checker LOL).