Pros and cons of running OA and DW together

[SafetyFirst]

Before I reinstalled XP I had many different security programs running in real time. That slowed down my system significantly.

Now I have reinstalled XP and want to build a lighter security setup. However, I am tempted to run two of my favourite programs together, Online Armor Premium and DefenseWall v3. I have already installed DW and I am still in dilemma to add OA or not.

I know there is a certain overlapping, both progs are HIPS+firewall. But they do what they do in different ways: DW is policy based HIPS and sandbox-style firewall; OA is classic HIPS and classic firewall...

Could these two be used in a way to achieve synergy between them without stepping on each other's feet?

Will they two together be too heavy on my old Pentium 2.8 GHz?

I would like to hear about experiences of using them both at the same time. Please state all pros and cons of such setup.

Thank you

[mike21]

From my personal experience, I have tried many times OA, and I can say it is heavy. Even in my fastest PC, there was a "lag" for example at the installation of new applications, due to the OA's hips. When I was disabling hips there was not such lag. This was very unfortunate for me, as I really liked OA and all its functions but "I can't live" with the lag.

[Boost]

-{ Quote: "From my personal experience, I have tried many times OA, and I can say it is heavy. Even in my fastest PC, there was a "lag" for example at the installation of new applications, due to the OA's hips. When I was disabling hips there was not such lag. This was very unfortunate for me, as I really liked OA and all its functions but "I can't live" with the lag." }-

Same experience here as well.

Defensewall is good enough by itself IMO.

[sg09]

Yes OA was heavy on mine too...:(

[NoIos]

-{ Quote: "From my personal experience, I have tried many times OA, and I can say it is heavy. Even in my fastest PC, there was a "lag" for example at the installation of new applications, due to the OA's hips. When I was disabling hips there was not such lag. This was very unfortunate for me, as I really liked OA and all its functions but "I can't live" with the lag." }-

You can't call heavy a software just because it becomes heavy during installations since installations are some kind of "special" procedures and for normal users are not part of every day's tasks. But of course you decide and if OA does not fit your needs then you've done well removing it.

[mike21]

Thats why I said personal experience, because your "special procedures" are "every day tasks" for me. This is an open forum and I am allowed to express my opinion. To tell you the truth, I have tested almost any major security suite and firewall and online armor is one of the heaviest. The only firewall that gives more load to HDDs than online armor is outpost

[NoIos]

-{ Quote: "Thats why I said personal experience, because your "special procedures" are "every day tasks" for me. This is an open forum and I am allowed to express my opinion. To tell you the truth, I have tested almost any major security suite and firewall and online armor is one of the heaviest. The only firewall that gives more load to HDDs than online armor is outpost" }-

Sorry...but for example...do you call an AV heavy because it's heavy while you run a scan? Usually no...you just care about how heavy it is for the system in general...while you're doing others things. For sure you can say it's heavy while it scans and take it as a parameter for buying or not a product, but not that is heavy in general.

Same thing about the installations and OA. So it's better before arguing about me not allowing you to express your opinion ( incredible really ) it's better to bring in your posts some common sense. Thank you.

[mike21]

Can't you read, I typed that it is heavy for my everyday activities, why you keep typing examples?

[NoIos]

Your everyday activities....quote: "because your "special procedures"(=installations) are "every day tasks" for me" are not the everyday activities for all the users. If you don't understand this there is nothing else to say.
I can read but I cannot leave uncommented posts without a serious dose of common sense. If you have stated from the beginning that you find the OA heavy in general...then there would be no discussion.

In any case, forget it. I've made the error to pay attention to what you have written. I'm out of this.

[ratwing]

Wow guys,I thank this may have been a misunderstanding leading to a pissing contest.

OnLineArmour is fine for me,more heavy than I want, because I do not want/need a HIPS.

If DefenceWall 2.56 was enough by itself,(it was for me for several months)

I guess DefenceWall 3 is even more so. (firewall and all that)

@SafetyFirst: If you can comfortable run both ,give it a try.
Just my opinion,if you cant,DefenceWall should do the job.

Spend some time with the DefenceWall help file,and all should be good!!
(It really is "set it and forget it",but there is some setting!!)

Respect,

rat

[pajenn]

The Program Guard function of OA can be heavy, especially during installations, which is why I turn it off when installing or modifying the system. I turn it back on when I'm not doing anything special so that it can ask about programs and update the rules.

For me the FW component is only "heavy" (as in disruptive) during installs if I take too long to consider the pop-ups i.e. program being installed wants to connect to the internet, OA asks whether to let it, if I take too long to decide the program may think internet connection is not working and either abort the install, or proceed without connecting, but maybe ask again later or launch another program that wants to connect and if there are too many simultaneous requests because I didn't answer them fast enough my computer may freeze or otherwise suffer in responsiveness... Not ideal, but I can live with it.

[mike21]

-{ Quote: "Your everyday activities....quote: "because your "special procedures"(=installations) are "every day tasks" for me" are not the everyday activities for all the users. If you don't understand this there is nothing else to say.
I can read but I cannot leave uncommented posts without a serious dose of common sense. If you have stated from the beginning that you find the OA heavy in general...then there would be no discussion.

In any case, forget it. I've made the error to pay attention to what you have written. I'm out of this." }-

How smart is that you out of this and you keep replying to have the last word :thumbd:

[Scoobs72]

-{ Quote: "From my personal experience, I have tried many times OA, and I can say it is heavy. Even in my fastest PC, there was a "lag" for example at the installation of new applications, due to the OA's hips. When I was disabling hips there was not such lag. This was very unfortunate for me, as I really liked OA and all its functions but "I can't live" with the lag." }-


Similar experience here. OA is a great application but caused a general slowdown in my PC. Removed OA and my PC felt 'zippy' again. Running DW + OA together is probably overkill.

[Sadeghi85]

I have a different experience, OA is very light here, however I disabled Firewall, mail & web shield. For installers tick "Trust this program" & "Install mode" checkboxes.

[NoIos]

-{ Quote: "How smart is that you out of this and you keep replying to have the last word :thumbd:" }-

Are you kidding me? I have never posted again after I said that I'm out. And if you continue to post things unrelated to the topic discussed here but related only to me I'll keep on posting to defend myself. So please don't make me come back in this thread because of personal attacks. You can say whatever you want about the topic (OA) I will not reply back but avoid the personal thing. I'm out of this thread about the topic but I'm not if someone attacks me.

[kjdemuth]

OA++ is also running light for me. It just goes to show that everyone's systems are not the same. Defensewall doens't run well for me. Not sure why. It takes alot longer to start up my browser. Even after disabling alot of my add on's. It also seems to lag on my system at times.

[timestand]

-{ Quote: "Are you kidding me? I have never posted again after I said that I'm out. And if you continue to post things unrelated to the topic discussed here but related only to me I'll keep on posting to defend myself. So please don't make me come back in this thread because of personal attacks. You can say whatever you want about the topic (OA) I will not reply back but avoid the personal thing. I'm out of this thread about the topic but I'm not if someone attacks me." }-

I agree mike. OA is heavy me also and I hate slow down at welcome screen. outpost quite heavy also. Comodo I find is lightest of all. I not sure version 4 though but version 3 Comodo is very light. I no use any of them now but just share what I felt. I think those who say OA is light etc are those who dont try any thing lighter so they dont know what is light and what is heavy. Sound like Scoob and mike and many other and me have tried many and agree OA heavy. also noios is always like this I say. I think he one who has crazy back up system and fight a lot if some one say he wrong. noios do you use OA? or you just argue for sake of argue. Because mike simple say he feels OA is heavy. Doesnt mean everyone say it heavy. Many say they hate pizza. But many other say they love it. Both are right in what they feel. Ok? But sound nice that many us feel OA is heavy. Never hear many say Comodo or MD heavy. Ok?

[Sadeghi85]

-{ Quote: "
I think those who say OA is light etc are those who dont try any thing lighter so they dont know what is light and what is heavy. Never hear many say Comodo or MD heavy. Ok?" }-

For comparison, Comodo is very heavy on my system, haven't tried OP or MD though. But I suspect OA feels light because I uninstalled its firewall, don't need it.

[jmonge]

timestand you mention the word pizza;D mmmmm yummy8) by the way i tried OA++ and it was very slow here;D

[bellgamin]

-{ Quote: "...by the way i tried OA++ and it was very slow here;D" }- Haven't tried the ++ version of OA.

My only 2 real-time security apps are OA & Prevx-free. VERY light on my box, but --- your mileage may differ.

[jmonge]

the premium version is fast but when i tried the ++ version that is when i get it slow:)

[SafetyFirst]

-{ Quote: "
My only 2 real-time security apps are OA & Prevx-free. VERY light on my box, but --- your mileage may differ." }-
Bellgamin, you're confusing me... ;D

-{ Quote: "The ones I have tried & do not want to use are...

1- Online Armor (it's too heavy for my aging computer)" }-

-{ Quote: "After a lot of research & testing, plus careful consideration of all the posts herein, I selected Outpost because...

1- Outpost (OP) is incredibly easy on my computer's cpu, & is also light on I/O & ram.

2- OP offers adequate configurability of its FW & HIPS (for tweak-freaks like me) but also offers an excellent "learning mode" (for those who prefer a more hands-off FW/HIPS)." }-

-{ Quote: "OP is a hair lighter than Online Armor, & a hair heavier than Comodo CIS." }-

-{ Quote: "Prevx+OP is a great combo on my aging computer. Excellent 3-way protection provided by only 2 real-time security apps." }-

-{ Quote: "OP 7 still has some issues (check OP's forum). I will wait until it issues some fixes. In any event, I'm using OA premium at the moment & loving it." }-

-{ Quote: "OA is stronger against keyloggers than any other classic HIPS I have tested. However, I haven't yet tested Outpost 7" }-

Heavy? Not heavy? :wacko: ;D

[bellgamin]

-{ Quote: "Bellgamin, you're confusing me..." }-
I agree. It was a confusing couple of weeks beginning shortly after the date when I started the thread on finding a FW with integral HIPS (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=269577).

A couple of weeks after I began using OP version 6x, Agnitum released its beta of version 7, so I ceased using OP. I don't have time to test betas right now, & I saw no benefit in further testing version 6.x since it soon would be replaced.

Right about that same timeframe, Online Armor released an update -- version 4.0.0.44 as I recall. I had a few weeks left on my license so I decided to give it a try. It turned out to be much faster than any other recent version of OA -- perhaps a hair faster than OP 6.x as well. So I switched over to it. Since then I have trialed PFW & ZA & OSSS for a few days each (I am a test drive junkie), but I always went back to OA. I also decided to renew my license.

Once Outpost issues a minor update/bug-killer for version 7, I shall probably revisit that for a while (I have a lifetime license). For now OA is "flavor of the month".

[SafetyFirst]

-{ Quote: " For now OA is "flavor of the month"." }-
What do you think about using Online Armor and DefenseWall together?

[bellgamin]

-{ Quote: "What do you think about using Online Armor and DefenseWall together?" }-I have read posts by those who have run these two together, & it seems OA & DW play nicely together. AFAIK, both OA & DW hook into ring 0, so things might get dicey if your computer is running any other hookers.

DW is a policy HIPS that isolates all threatgates (browsers, email clients, FTP clients, etc) as untrusted apps. Also, the user can designate ANY app as untrusted, whether it is a threatgate or not. Anything that gains entrance via untrusted is, itself, untrusted. Untrusted apps, being isolated, can do no harm to trusted apps (the guts of your computer & all its goodies).

OA is a classic HIPS & is mainly targeted to spotting suspicious/dangerous behavior & either blocking that behavior or alerting the user with a query as to "Allow or Block". OA also has a Run Safer feature that enables the user to easily switch ANY app, to Limited User (LUA) status. In LUA status, an app is constrained from doing major damage to approximately the same extent as DW constrains untrusted apps.

Accordingly, I would suggest using one or the other, but not both.

[Ed_H]

I have tried running OA++ and DW together and have gotten BSOD's regularly with the combination.

My experience with OA is different from some others in this thread...I run OA++ on my Vista SP2 laptop as it runs faster than any other security app I have tried other than Geswall. DW runs on the other 2 PC's in the house.

[SafetyFirst]

-{ Quote: "I have read posts by those who have run these two together, & it seems OA & DW play nicely together. AFAIK, both OA & DW hook into ring 0, so things might get dicey if your computer is running any other hookers.
" }-
I run Shadow Defender, PeerBlock, plan on adding MBAM and an anti-keylogger (SpyShelter or Zemana, haven't decided yet).

Where do they hook, what ring? Do you anticipate problems with such setup?