DefenseWall causing OA++ popups to load up slowly

[nineine]

Hey everyone,

I have been testing out OA++ with DefenseWall and the OA++ popups are loading up slower now than they were prior to installing DW. When a popup comes up, you first see the colors of it come up, then about a second later the text appears. Anybody know what causes this and what I need to configure to stop it from happening? Thanks!

[Keyboard_Commando]

Yes.

The answer to

-{ Quote: "Anybody know what causes this and what I need to configure to stop it from happening? Thanks!" }-

You only need one of those you currently have. I am surprised anyone can manage to run them together. OA++ for instance requires 118k + in ram alone for its AV database loaded in memory - that's what it shows on my PC.

[Ed_H]

I have used OA++ along with DefenseWall without causing any issues with OA's pop-ups. Have you added DW to OA++ exclusions? That might be enough to fix the problem.

[jmonge]

i was about to say that;D

[Threedog]

I never had any problems running OA++ and Defensewall togeather. Using XP Pro tho.

[nineine]

-{ Quote: "You only need one of those you currently have. I am surprised anyone can manage to run them together. OA++ for instance requires 118k + in ram alone for its AV database loaded in memory - that's what it shows on my PC." }-
I'm currently running OA++, DefenseWall, and Sandboxie, and I'm still in the process of configuring them all. The only time OA++ uses up that much RAM is when I am doing a Full System AV Scan. If I am just using Firefox, OA++ doesn't use more than 10MB of memory, and SB is about the same, while DW is at 60MB. I don't think that is a great deal of memory usage, considering this machine has 3GB of ram in it.

-{ Quote: "I have used OA++ along with DefenseWall without causing any issues with OA's pop-ups. Have you added DW to OA++ exclusions? That might be enough to fix the problem." }-
Yes I have. Before I even had SB installed, I had allowed and trusted all of DW's processes in OA++. Still OA++'s popups loaded slowly.

EDIT: Oh wait exclusions? Nope I haven't. Right now I have dwall.sys, dwall_ext.dll, defensewall.exe, & defensewall_serv.exe all set to trusted and allowed. However some of these files are located in the System32 folder and some are in the System32 Drivers folder. Exclusions only allows you to add folders, not executables or files. Which folders would I have to add to exclusions? I would think it is a bad idea to add these whole folders to exclusions.

Also on another note, does anybody know how to stop DW from putting Firefox on the Untrusted Application List? When I remove FF and then run it, DW adds it back onto the list.

[jmonge]

with defensewall just leave it at default settings,it is very strong like this;)

[nineine]

-{ Quote: "with defensewall just leave it at default settings,it is very strong like this;)" }-
Yes it definitely is , but I have now added Sandboxie into the mix. I have read that making Firefox and other Internet Facing Apps Untrusted in DW and Sandboxed in SB will slow them down. There is however another approach to using these two programs together that will not make them overlap/conflict and cause slowdowns. In order to do this approach I would need to remove Firefox from the Untrusted Application List. Unfortunately that isn't working for me for some reason.

[jmonge]

i understand but 1 think i can tell you you actually dont need sandboxie when you run defensewall;) maybe with online armor with defensewall is more than enough,i tested both together SB+DW and to tell you i ended up using only defensewall in all my pcs

[Threedog]

I tested them both. Either works great with OA.

[jmonge]

i see:)

[nineine]

Just in case people are missing these questions in my posts, here are the two things that I am trying to figure out:

-{ Quote: "After I installed DefenseWall, the OA++ popups started to load up slowly. I tried adding dwall.sys, dwall_ext.dll, defensewall.exe, & defensewall_serv.exe to trusted and allowed in Online Armor++, but that did not help. Ed_H recommended adding DefenseWall to the OA++ exclusions list. Some of those files that I just mentioned, are located in the "\Windows\System32\" folder and some are located in the "\Windows\System32\Drivers\" folder. Exclusions only allows you to add folders, not executables or files, and I would think that it is not safe to add these folders to exclusions. So which folders should I add to the Online Armor++ exclusion list, to prevent DefenseWall from slowing down the OA++ popups? " }-
-{ Quote: "I am also trying to run Sandboxie and DefenseWall together. I have read that making Firefox/Internet Facing Apps Untrusted in DW, while at the same time Sandboxed in SB, will slow them down. There is however another approach to using these two programs together, that will not make them overlap/conflict and cause slowdowns. In order to do this approach I would need to remove Firefox from the Untrusted Application List. Unfortunately that isn't working for me for some reason. When I remove FF from the Untrusted Application List and then run FF, DW adds it back onto the list. Does anybody know how to stop DW from putting Firefox on the Untrusted Application List?" }-
If anybody can help me out here, that would really be appreciated.

[Ed_H]

-{ Quote: "
EDIT: Oh wait exclusions? Nope I haven't. Right now I have dwall.sys, dwall_ext.dll, defensewall.exe, & defensewall_serv.exe all set to trusted and allowed. However some of these files are located in the System32 folder and some are in the System32 Drivers folder. Exclusions only allows you to add folders, not executables or files. Which folders would I have to add to exclusions? I would think it is a bad idea to add these whole folders to exclusions.

Also on another note, does anybody know how to stop DW from putting Firefox on the Untrusted Application List? When I remove FF and then run it, DW adds it back onto the list." }-

I added C:\Program Files\DefenseWall to OA++ Exclusions and have not had any issues.

Firefox should be in DW's untrusted list as well as any other internet facing app. Why do you want to remove it?
Edit: Sorry I now understand why you want FF untrusted. Maybe best to Ask Ilya at the DW forums how to make this happen. He is very responsive, to say the least.

[Ed_H]

-{ Quote: "I tested them both. Either works great with OA." }-

My experience as well.

I run OA++ and DW v3 most of the time. If I am venturing into the dark side on the internet I also use SBIE or ShadowDefender. No problems with any combination.

[nineine]

-{ Quote: "I added C:\Program Files\DefenseWall to OA++ Exclusions and have not had any issues.

Firefox should be in DW's untrusted list as well as any other internet facing app. Why do you want to remove it?
Edit: Sorry I now understand why you want FF untrusted. Maybe best to Ask Ilya at the DW forums how to make this happen. He is very responsive, to say the least." }-
I wouldn't say that the popups load up super slowly... they're just slower than they were before I installed DW. They used to just pop right up. Now I see the background color load up for like a second, and then the text shows up after that. It's just noticeable, not super annoying. Are you sure your setup doesn't do this? I will try adding that folder to my exclusions.

Also read this post (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1555011&postcount=31). This is essentially how I am trying to setup my DW with SB. Having Firefox Sandboxed while at the same time Untrusted, makes it load up slower and run slower. This is because the protection is "overlapping". The same thing goes for any other App protected this way.

-{ Quote: "If I am venturing into the dark side on the internet I also use SBIE or ShadowDefender. No problems with any combination." }-
On another note, my intentions after I have OA++, SB, & DW all working perfectly, have been to add ShadowDefender into my security setup. This IMO would be the ultimate security configuration.

[jmonge]

yes i know but running all 3 sandboxie/defensewall and OA will be to much i think

[Ed_H]

Yep...definitely overkill. I am working on a new setup.

[Threedog]

Overkill also in my opinion, although I have loaded up that heavy for experiments. Really, OA++ is enough protection for most people. Especially if you have the "Run Safer" option in play. I have found as you are that the more you throw into the mix the more slow down's you have.

[nineine]

Yes but I was getting the popup slow downs with only OA++ and DW installed. SB was not installed. I am only experimenting right now with this setup. It is not a 100% keeper, just yet.

Also Ed_H, I added that one folder to exclusions and it did not help.

[jmonge]

at this moment i want to test OnLine Armor;) ,so you will see my signiture change alitle:argh:

[Threedog]

Now you got me thinking. I might have to load up my OA image and do some testing.

[jmonge]

i am installing now it is at 71%:)

[jmonge]

i wonder if some one try it with rootkits???

[Threedog]

I have. If the AV part of OA++ don't catch it the HIPS part of it will. Then it is up to the user to be on the ball enough to say "no to the nasty."

[nineine]

Awesome everybody!! :thumb: If you guys could try running OA++ without DW, and then after with DW, to see if you get this problem, that could be really helpful to me. Pretty Pleeeease111!! ;D

[Threedog]

I will have to try it later on tonite. Junior soon waking up so will be tied up until after his bed time. But I do seem to remember the last time I ran that combo that there was a little bit of a lag but nothing that got me too excited.

[nineine]

-{ Quote: "I will have to try it later on tonite. Junior soon waking up so will be tied up until after his bed time. But I do seem to remember the last time I ran that combo that there was a little bit of a lag but nothing that got me too excited." }-

Great, Threedog! Really nice of you to use your free time to do something like this for me. You know, re-imaging your system and all just to get me some answers. :)

[Ed_H]

Ok...I booted into the snapshot with DW and OA++ running. There is a very slight slow down overall but no delay in OA's pop ups. I am running Vista SP1.

[nineine]

-{ Quote: "Ok...I booted into the snapshot with DW and OA++ running. There is a very slight slow down overall but no delay in OA's pop ups. I am running Vista SP1." }-
Here's a screenshot of what I am talking about. I managed to press print screen on my keyboard, quick enough to get a shot of this. When something triggers a popup in OA++, you see what is on the right side of this image for maybe a quarter to half of a second. After that you see the full popup, shown on the left side of the image.

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[Threedog]

Oy!!! No I am not getting that. Just a very very slight lag and that is it. I am running XP Pro though with pretty high powered specs so that might be the difference. I can't figure where Defensewall or OA would be interacting to cause the problem.

[nineine]

-{ Quote: "Oy!!! No I am not getting that. Just a very very slight lag and that is it. I am running XP Pro though with pretty high powered specs so that might be the difference. I can't figure where Defensewall or OA would be interacting to cause the problem." }- As I said, what you see in the right side of the image happens in a split second or less. So you barely get a chance to even see it. I just took the screenshot at the right time.

Your right though, it could just be your specs that make the difference. This is a pretty old machine, and it is running on Windows 7 x86. It is a P4 3.4GHz Prescott CPU with 3GB of DDR400 RAM running in Dual Channel, a EVGA 6800GS, and a P4P800 Deluxe Mobo.

The popup lag is slightly noticeable, but the overall performance of the machine is pretty good. I guess I'll have to live with this for now, unless I figure out something.

Might you have the answer to the other question that I posted in this thread earlier? :)

-{ Quote: "I am also trying to run Sandboxie and DefenseWall together. I have read that making Firefox/Internet Facing Apps Untrusted in DW, while at the same time Sandboxed in SB, will slow them down. There is however another approach to using these two programs together, that will not make them overlap/conflict and cause slowdowns. In order to do this approach I would need to remove Firefox from the Untrusted Application List. Unfortunately that isn't working for me for some reason. When I remove FF from the Untrusted Application List and then run FF, DW adds it back onto the list. Does anybody know how to stop DW from putting Firefox on the Untrusted Application List?" }-

[Threedog]

OK, this might do the trick but no guarantees. In your Defensewall Advanced tab go into options and de-select "Periodically check applications from built in list and set them as untrusted". This will keep Defensewall from checking and automatically re-adding it and any other programs that are on the list back into untrusted status.

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "Hey everyone,

I have been testing out OA++ with DefenseWall and the OA++ popups are loading up slower now than they were prior to installing DW. When a popup comes up, you first see the colors of it come up, then about a second later the text appears. Anybody know what causes this and what I need to configure to stop it from happening? Thanks!" }-

My guess is you have overlapping duplicate security functions between these products.

If you must have them all they MUST be set up to mutually exclude each other from protecting each other. If one can't do that get rid of it and replace it unless it's function is duplicated. One real time scanner is enough!

Start cutting back on products. Do you have backup covered via an imaging product?