Looking for Wired Router.....

[bgfalconboy]

I have cable internet and a ps3. I want to be able to connect my laptop and ps3 to the internet at the same time. I was wondering what are the best choices for wired routers.

[Sputnik]

Probably your modem already has a router functionality so you can just buy a switch saving you quite some bucks ;)

[bgfalconboy]

-{ Quote: "Probably your modem already has a router functionality so you can just buy a switch saving you quite some bucks ;)" }-

Interesting. I have Time Warner and they supplied a motorola modem. I can buy a switch connect it to the modem and then connect laptop and ps3 to the switch? I believe the modem is the Motorola SURFboard cable modem.

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "Probably your modem already has a router functionality so you can just buy a switch saving you quite some bucks ;)" }-
That's not likley true. Most modems do NOT include a router as a router is a totally separate (electrically speaking) network device from a modem. What is the Motorola model number? If it is the very popular 5120 Surfboard, then it definitely does not include a router.

Note an Ethernet router with NAT is really a very low-tech device - that is NOT a criticism, it just means that just about any brand will do what you want effectively, and that is to share your connection with multiple devices while providing a very effective level of security for the connected computers. Every broadband (cable/DSL) user should use a router, IMO, even if there is only one computer on your network - your network being everything on your side of the gateway device (the modem). This is because the router assumes the public IP address assigned by the ISP, then the router assigns new IP addresses to the connected computers, hiding the computer's IP from the world. This is very effective a thwarting hacking attempts by all but the most determined, and skilled, badguy.

Note that a true router has only 1 input and 1 output, but most routers INCLUDE in the same box a 4-port Ethernet switch - which is also a totally separate (electrically speaking) network device.

I personally like the Linksys line of network devices and the BEFSR41 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124001) for a basic router with NAT. However, D-Link, Netgear, and a host of other makers provide similar, and competing devices. I have also used the D-Link DI-604UP (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rlz=1R2GGLL_enUS351&q=4+port+ethernet+router+with+print+server&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=3503901053572857271&ei=Ol8BS-qABpWJnQe33f2cCw&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBUQ8wIwAw#ps-sellers) in several setups. This device is particularly nice because it includes a USB print server so you can attach a non-network capable printer and turn it into a networked printer and centrally locate it so all networked computers can print to it. The printer does not have to be tethered to and shared by a host computer - a very good thing.

[YeOldeStonecat]

-{ Quote: "That's not likley true. Most modems do NOT include a router as a router is a totally separate (electrically speaking) network device from a modem. What is the Motorola model number? If it is the very popular 5120 Surfboard, then it definitely does not include a router. " }-

Depends if you're talking about DSL or Cable. Most cable ISPs, as above with the Motorola, ship pure modems with their home grade accounts, and they'll usually use gateway appliances (combo modem/routers) with their business grade accounts.

With most DSL ISPs however, they're also shipping gateway appliances lately (combo modem/routers) to basic home setups, and naturally heavier duty similar devices for their business grade accounts.

Since the OP is interested in gaming, I encourage a more current generation router than the ancient befsr41 and dl604 series....DLinks DGL-4300 is quite affordable now, and certainly their higher end DGL 4500...both will have superior throughput to easily keep up with todays faster internet connections, and some good QoS features for gaming.

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "With most DSL ISPs however" }-Most? I'm not sure you can say that. "Some", for sure - but most? Around the world? I don't know. I think it depends on what you ask for. I note some come with wireless access too. But some still come with nothing and you have to buy the gateway. But even so, that's for new customers, not existing.

[YeOldeStonecat]

For the OP, the observant eye would notice he's in the States..since in his sig his ISP is "Time Warner". I can say "most DSL ISP's" because I have clients in many states, I work with many broadband connections from many many different ISPs all the time. Way back in the old days of the likes of Speedstream 5120 "dumb modems"...any of those still running are being rapidly replaced as ISPs upgrade their packages and require DSL2 modems. And those DSL2 modems are coming, by majority, as little NAT boxes. Which actually is a good thing for most home networks, the end client by default ends up protected by NAT for basic firewall protection.

[Bill_Bright]

Okay, but the observant eye would notice he has cable, not DSL, and a Motorola Surfboard modem, of which only a few models have a built in router, and that he is asking for a router. Therefore, I think it safe to assume he would have noticed 4 extra Ethernet ports on his, if his was one with a router. So my suggestions stand.

[Sputnik]

@Bill_Bright
Sorry I was not aware of the situation in the United States. In Europe you'll get a modem with router functionality (NAT) with almost any cable/dsl provider. For the cheapest subscriptions they limited these devices to one port, but the NAT functionality is still build in so you can just use a switch instead of buying a more expensive router.

I'm aware of the technical difference between the two devices. I agree with you that now-a-days you can buy just about any brand for home usage.

[Bill_Bright]

I am not saying it is a set "situation" where folks get a modem only. I am just saying having an integrated router is not a given either. Many providers offer several plans and service levels, from very basic, to full wireless included. And many folks have been broadband subscribers for years (over 12 for me). So NEW subscribers have more options than subscribers of even just a couple years ago - to include the ISP providing a choice of devices (modem only up to all-in-one with modem/router/switch/WAP in one box), to some allowing users to purchase their own.

The only "situtation" here in the US is that the US is WAY behind in having it's citizens broadband connected (the numbers are high, but the percentages are not).

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/us-20th-in-broadband-penetration-trails-s-korea-estonia.ars

[Sputnik]

@Bill_Bright
I do understand that isp's in the United States don't give their users updated modems? My experience in Europe/Russia is that existing customers do get updated modems over time, especially on the cable network when network upgrades are applied (DOCSIS 1.0 -> 2.0 -> 3.0).

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "@Bill_Bright
I do understand that isp's in the United States don't give their users updated modems? My experience in Europe/Russia is that existing customers do get updated modems over time, especially on the cable network when network upgrades are applied (DOCSIS 1.0 -> 2.0 -> 3.0)." }-
Yeah. I'm with Cox Communications and when I upgraded to DOCSIS 2.0, I had to buy a new modem. Only new subscribers got the new modems when they signed their life away with a new contract.

DOCSIS 3.0 has yet to come to Cox's Omaha region but I suspect since this 2.0 modem is mine, I will have to pay again for a 3.0.

[Sputnik]

@Bill_Bright
I see, didn't expect that in the United States. Currently I have only 56k6 at home so it could always be worse ;)

[Bill_Bright]

Been there, done that. In fact, I remember 300 baud!

[YeOldeStonecat]

-{ Quote: "Most? I'm not sure you can say that. "Some", for sure - but most? Around the world? I don't know. I think it depends on what you ask for. I note some come with wireless access too. But some still come with nothing and you have to buy the gateway. But even so, that's for new customers, not existing." }-


"Most"..without a doubt, yes I'm confident in stating that. Looking at the sheer volume of clients I have across various states in the US (and now into South America)..I can state that with confidence. You get a default unit handed/shipped to you by the ISP. If you want something else, you have to ask for it, but you're not usually given a choice unless you succumb to some ISPs sales push for the home wireless gateway setup that they soak you for as an option for some home setups.

I also partnered with 4x ISPs as part of my business, both DSL and cable, so I'm frequently with their sales, tech, data center guys, and onsite setup guys.

Existing customers also do get new units, as ISPs have rolled out newer faster packages. Old DSL 1 type modems were replaced by newer DSL 2 modems. You very rarely still see the ancient Speedstream 5120 models, or the hideous and horrid performing 2Wire 1800G models.

So @ Sputnik....yes, many ISPs do this..they will upgrade your modem so you can keep up with newer technologies. Myself, I prefer purchasing my own modems..ends up less expensive in the long run..even when I factor in the cost of having a spare.

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "Existing customers also do get new units, as ISPs have rolled out newer faster packages." }-Again, that's not a given. As I stated, my ISP did not upgrade existing subscribers. Sure, they offered to sell us new modems, but they did not provide them, and those they offered were simple modems - and did not include routers.

That said - we have driven this thread way OT and recommend we give this thread back to the OP, who is asking for a advice on buying a new wired router.



Edit: Added omitted "not".

[Howard Kaikow]

-{ Quote: "Probably your modem already has a router functionality so you can just buy a switch saving you quite some bucks ;)" }-
A real router would provide a hardware firewall for all devices passing thru the router.

A switch, AFAIK, offers no such protection, or does it?

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "A real router would provide a hardware firewall for all devices passing thru the router." }-Sorry but that is not true. A router is not a firewall. A router simply "routes" packets between networks. A firewall is a security device, or protocol that acts a gate into and sometimes out of a trusted zone based on defined network preferences. A real router might include a firewall, but does not have to.

A switch does not offer any security.

[Howard Kaikow]

-{ Quote: "Sorry but that is not true. A router is not a firewall. A router simply "routes" packets between networks. A firewall is a security device, or protocol that acts a gate into and sometimes out of a trusted zone based on defined network preferences. A real router might include a firewall, but does not have to.

A switch does not offer any security." }-

That's why I said "real router".
Maybe I should have said "most routers sold these daze have a built-in firewall".
Or, "one should buy only real roiters that include a firewall".

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "That's why I said "real router".
Maybe I should have said "most routers sold these daze have a built-in firewall".
Or, "one should buy only real roiters that include a firewall"." }-Saying it any of those 3 ways does not change reality. A "real" router is not a firewall, and whether a router includes a firewall or not does NOT make a router "real" or not. That's like saying only "real" monitors display in color.

In a large network, the firewall is typically a separate piece of specialized hardware, or may be special software sitting on a separate, designated computer used as a "gateway" device.

We also need to ensure firewall "like" features are not confuse with "real" firewalls. NAT, contrary to what marketing weenies would have us believe, is not a firewall, nor does it make a router "real". SPI (stateful packet inspection) is a powerful firewall protocol or filter, and most of today's "better" routers for SOHO applications use SPI, but again, a router does not have to include SPI to be a "real" router.

I recommend reading How Routers Work (http://computer.howstuffworks.com/router.htm) or skip right to the quiz found on that page and note in the answer to Question 8 what it says a router "can" have, not what it "will" have.

Let's re-phrase your last suggestion and call it even, "One should only buy a router that includes a firewall".

[Howard Kaikow]

-{ Quote: "Let's re-phrase your last suggestion and call it even, "One should only buy a router that includes a firewall"." }-

That's a "real router".

[Bill_Bright]

You just won't accept it, will you? That's sad. And it still does not change the facts, nor does using wrong terminology make it right. I'll say it one more time, a real router does not have to include a firewall to be a real router. A router that includes a firewall, is just that, a router that happens to also include a firewall. To insist otherwise merely indicates a layperson with a stubborn attitude. And for that, I recommend taking a couple networking courses at your local college.

Have a good day.

[bgfalconboy]

Well to answer some of the questions, yes I do have cable in the US. My modem from Time Warner definitely isn't a router. I would'n't mind having a firewall router or whatever but for now I just wanted something to share my internet connection with my ps3. Getting tired of having to disconnect ethernet cable from laptop to ps3 and then unplugging the modem for roughly 30 secs , plugging back in so that the modem can "talk" to the ps3 for the connection to work. I really don't want to spend a whole of money here. less than $40 is preferable. Would a simple ethernet switch like this one work even if though my modem doesnt' have router functionality?
http://www.staples.com/Netgear-ProSafe-5-Port-10-100-Fast-Ethernet-Switch/product_487840

[bgfalconboy]

-{ Quote: "That's not likley true. Most modems do NOT include a router as a router is a totally separate (electrically speaking) network device from a modem. What is the Motorola model number? If it is the very popular 5120 Surfboard, then it definitely does not include a router.
." }-

Mine from Time Warner is the Surfboard SB5101.

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "I would'n't mind having a firewall router or whatever but for now I just wanted something to share my internet connection with my ps3." }-Which is exactly what you can do with a typical home router, but the router also provides a major level of security you don't get with a switch. Note that almost every router sold for home use includes a 4-port Ethernet switch. So something like the D-Link EBR-2310 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127091) would be perfect, and with the $10 rebate and free shipping from Newegg, the price should be in your budget.

[YeOldeStonecat]

-{ Quote: "

We also need to ensure firewall "like" features are not confuse with "real" firewalls. NAT, contrary to what marketing weenies would have us believe, is not a firewall, nor does it make a router "real". SPI (stateful packet inspection) is a powerful firewall protocol or filter, and most of today's "better" routers for SOHO applications use SPI, but again, a router does not have to include SPI to be a "real" router. " }-

In actuality, SPI is the term that's getting over hyped by the marketing weenies and people, as we can see, are falling for it.

NAT is the basic firewall feature that's important for home (and business) networks. I will not support any client..even if they just have a single PC at home, unless they're behind a NAT router. The important feature, is it masquerades the computer(s)..hiding them from the internet. A passive firewall if you will, yeah sure. The important feature is, your PC(s) is not directly connected to the internet on a public IP address. By default all 65,000 plus ports are blocked from unwarranted incoming traffic.

Still don't know what's important about this? Take a computer with a fresh Windows XP no service packs install. Plug it directly into a cable modem on a public IP address, and let it sit there at desktop..you don't even have to surf the net or do anything. Give it about 5 minutes...now see how many worms and RPC or DCOM exploits and probably successful hacks have hit it.

Now..for part 2 of the illustration, take a computer with a fresh Windows XP no service packs install, plug it into the back of a little Stinksys NAT router, and plug the router into the cable modem. The computer naturally will have a private IP address behind NAT. Let the computer sit there for a few hours...just at desktop. Guess what...no self spreading worms have hit it, no RPC exploits have hit it, no kiddie hackers from China have been grinding it, just sitting there behind NAT it's been safe from undesired incoming traffic.

Or better yet...PAT.

SPI ...now that's an overhyped feature. SPI really only comes into play when you do port forwarding, checking "inside" inbound packets against a predefined (and rather short and basic) list of malformed packet exploits. Protect against a DoS attack..."woooo" ::) If your little home or small biz network connection were to fall under a DoS attack, your internet pipe gets saturated first..doesn't make a whit of a difference if your router would recognize it or not....if your driveway is blocked by a whale, why bother opening or closing the garage door..nothing can get to it.

And home grade routers simply don't have the balls to run the more proper version of this...Deep SPI, and Intrusion Prevention Service (IPS) and Intrusion Detection System (IDS). You're really only to get this if you have a budget allowing at least several hundred dollars...or your build yourself a *nix router distro.

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "In actuality, SPI is the term that's getting over hyped by the marketing weenies and people, as we can see, are falling for it." }-You are right. And even some of my colleagues have too - often insisting a router without SPI is a waste of money. Not true, by a long shot. You will often see routers advertised as having built in firewalls, but in reality, all they have is NAT and SPI. Valuable features, no doubt - but they are just features and protocols that add another layer of defense, but don't compare to a "real" (and expensive) firewall "device" as used in big corporate networks.

-{ Quote: "no kiddie hackers from China " }-That's really the key, isn't? Blocking the kiddie hackers, wannabes, and nosy neighbors. You can lock and bar the doors, brick up all the windows, and surround the place with killer whales, but if a determined experienced hacker is targeting YOU specifically, a little home router will slow him down about as much as locks and a burglar alarm will slow down a professional car thief from stealing the car.

The idea is to remove all the low hanging fruit to eliminate the "crimes of opportunity". Fortunately (:blink: :doubt:) for us there are millions of users (many with pirated software, BTW) out there who don't keep their systems patched, updated, and scanned with current anti-malware applications, or blocked behind software based firewalls and routers - so 99% of the badguys won't waste their time trying to crack our defenses, and simply move on to the "easy pickings". This is still bad for the rest of us, however, as those machines become compromised and used as weapons against us by the badguys to distribute spam, malware, or conduct DDoS attacks.

-{ Quote: "I will not support any client..even if they just have a single PC at home, unless they're behind a NAT router." }-That's in line with what I said in my first post joining this thread - all broadband users should be behind a router, even if only one computer on their network. I don't refuse to support them, unless they refuse to take my advice! As noted, a very basic router with NAT, even from Linksys (which I happen to like, BTW) offers a great deal of security over using nothing.

-{ Quote: "...take a computer with a fresh Windows XP no service packs install, plug it into the back of a little Stinksys NAT router, and plug the router into the cable modem. The computer naturally will have a private IP address behind NAT. Let the computer sit there for a few hours...just at desktop. Guess what...no self spreading worms have hit it, no RPC exploits have hit it, no kiddie hackers from China have been grinding it, just sitting there behind NAT it's been safe from undesired incoming traffic." }-Well, that's the bottom line problem, isn't it? Computers don't just sit there. The weakest link of any security plan enters the picture - the user. If undisciplined, he or she will not patch or apply critical updates leaving vulnerabilities exposed. He will open attachments and downloads without scanning with current anti-malware first. She will click on unsolicited popups and links in unsolicited emails. And worst case scenario, they will participate in illegal filesharing of copyrighted materials (songs, videos and published documents) on peer-to-peer (P2P) sites :wacko:.

Even the best defense is no good if you open the door and let the badguy in.

[Sputnik]

@bgfalconboy
Your modem (Motorola Surfboard SB5101) does have router functionality so a switch or hub will do as long you use a crossover cable between your modem and your switch. You can check the manual (http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Consumers/Products/Cable%20Modems%20and%20Gateways/SURFboard%20Cable%20Modem-SB5101/_Documents/Static%20Files/SB5101%20-%20User%20Guide.pdf) at page 47.

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "@bgfalconboy
Your modem (Motorola Surfboard SB5101) does have router functionality so a switch or hub will do as long you use a crossover cable between your modem and your switch. You can check the manual (http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Consumers/Products/Cable%20Modems%20and%20Gateways/SURFboard%20Cable%20Modem-SB5101/_Documents/Static%20Files/SB5101%20-%20User%20Guide.pdf) at page 47." }-
:( No! That is wrong! This device does NOT have router "functionality". It's a cable modem ONLY. And a switch is not a router, nor does a switch provide router functionality either!

As stated above, most routers INCLUDE a 4-port Ethernet switch in the same box, but a switch does not provide any router functionality. And because most routers, including the one suggested, include a switch, IT MAKES NO SENSE to buy a switch! Why? Because as I, YeOldeStonecat, and even Howard Kaikow have pointed out, the router with NAT offers a significant level of security to your network, even if only a network of one computer.

@Sputnik - Note the name of this site; Wilders Security. A switch provides absolutely ZERO security. PERIOD! The only place a switch should ever be used on any network that connects to the Internet is BETWEEN a router, and a computer. Just because a switch will "technically" work (which we already said, BTW), that does not mean it is the right thing to do! Especially with today's security environment. And to suggest using a switch without a router is bad advice! :thumbd:

[bgfalconboy]

-{ Quote: ":( No! That is wrong! This device does NOT have router "functionality". It's a cable modem ONLY. And a switch is not a router, nor does a switch provide router functionality either!

As stated above, most routers INCLUDE a 4-port Ethernet switch in the same box, but a switch does not provide any router functionality. And because most routers, including the one suggested, include a switch, IT MAKES NO SENSE to buy a switch! Why? Because as I, YeOldeStonecat, and even Howard Kaikow have pointed out, the router with NAT offers a significant level of security to your network, even if only a network of one computer.

@Sputnik - Note the name of this site; Wilders Security. A switch provides absolutely ZERO security. PERIOD! The only place a switch should ever be used on any network that connects to the Internet is BETWEEN a router, and a computer. Just because a switch will "technically" work (which we already said, BTW), that does not mean it is the right thing to do! Especially with today's security environment. And to suggest using a switch without a router is bad advice! :thumbd:" }-

So are routers with Nat firewall capability way more expensive or are most routers wireless or wired have the NAT feature? Maybe I should go the router way after all. I just don't want to spend $60+ on one if I can help it. I'm guessing using a router will make getting my ps3 to connect a lot harder to figure out.

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "So are routers with Nat firewall capability way more expensive... Maybe I should go the router way after all. I just don't want to spend $60+ on one if I can help it. " }-Look at my post #25 above. I posted a link to a D-Link Router with NAT and built in switch for only $25.99 after mail in rebate (with free shipping too) - just $1 more than the switch you were looking at. That is a basic router that does not include SPI. For that added security feature, it will cost more. But if not in your budget, then a basic router with NAT is just fine, and still provides a significant level of security over nothing, or a switch.
-{ Quote: "or are most routers wireless or wired have the NAT feature?" }-
I don't know of any router that does not have NAT - wired or wireless.

The term "wireless routers" is another incorrect marketing term. There is no such thing as a wireless router. But what they call a wireless router is really one box that contains a router and a wireless access point (WAP) inside that are connected together internally. They typically also include a 4-port Ethernet switch in the same box too. Three discreet network devices that just happen to be housed in the same box, sharing a common power supply. Some even include a modem - for 4 in 1 box.

-{ Quote: "I'm guessing using a router will make getting my ps3 to connect a lot harder to figure out" }-No. It should be just as easy as hooking up a computer. Typically you power everything down, plug in the Ethernet cable, power up and you are ready to go. And certainly, if you have problems, there are many folks who have the same setup that can help. You typically can download the manual for any product before ordering too so you can get familiar before it arrives.

Note that a wireless network requires much greater involvement to get the network secure and keep it secure. I don't recommend wireless when wired will do.

[bgfalconboy]

-{ Quote: "Look at my post #25 above. I posted a link to a D-Link Router with NAT and built in switch for only $25.99 after mail in rebate (with free shipping too) - just $1 more than the switch you were looking at. That is a basic router that does not include SPI. For that added security feature, it will cost more. But if not in your budget, then a basic router with NAT is just fine, and still provides a significant level of security over nothing, or a switch.

I don't know of any router that does not have NAT - wired or wireless.

The term "wireless routers" is another incorrect marketing term. There is no such thing as a wireless router. But what they call a wireless router is really one box that contains a router and a wireless access point (WAP) inside that are connected together internally. They typically also include a 4-port Ethernet switch in the same box too. Three discreet network devices that just happen to be housed in the same box, sharing a common power supply. Some even include a modem - for 4 in 1 box.

No. It should be just as easy as hooking up a computer. Typically you power everything down, plug in the Ethernet cable, power up and you are ready to go. And certainly, if you have problems, there are many folks who have the same setup that can help. You typically can download the manual for any product before ordering too so you can get familiar before it arrives.

Note that a wireless network requires much greater involvement to get the network secure and keep it secure. I don't recommend wireless when wired will do." }-

Thanks for the info. I intend to just do with a wired network right now. Just don't have the need for wireless right not and especially living in an apt complex.

[bgfalconboy]

How does this router from Negear compare with the D-link one? I can't find the D-Link router anywhere in a store, but I can get this Netgear router in a Staples store in my city. A bit more money but I wouldn't have to wait for it.
http://www.staples.com/Netgear-4-Port-Web-Safe-Router-with-10-100-Mbps-Switch/product_487763?cmArea=SC3:CG58:DP1804:CL141703

[BlueZannetti]

-{ Quote: "How does this router from Negear compare with the D-link one?" }-You want to get a sense of the comparative routing speed (as opposed to the speed of the lines that pass through it). See here (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/). On a quick look, D-Link is the hands down winner (~ 40 vs 7 Mbps WAN/LAN throughput assuming no version upgrades have occurred).

Just a rule of thumb that I try to adhere to - make sure WAN/LAN routing throughput is a factor of ~2 or more above your current ISP maximum speed to allow for some growth in the future.

Blue

[bgfalconboy]

-{ Quote: "You want to get a sense of the comparative routing speed (as opposed to the speed of the lines that pass through it). See here (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/). On a quick look, D-Link is the hands down winner (~ 40 vs 7 Mbps WAN/LAN throughput assuming no version upgrades have occurred).

Just a rule of thumb that I try to adhere to - make sure WAN/LAN routing throughput is a factor of ~2 or more above your current ISP maximum speed to allow for some growth in the future.

Blue" }-

Well, my speed form time warner is currently their standard service of 7mbps. I have gotten dl speeds of 10mbps on online speedtests.

I don't know if this matters or not but I don't plan on having anything more than my laptop and ps3 connected to the internet.

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "How does this router from Negear compare with the D-link one? I can't find the D-Link router anywhere in a store, but I can get this Netgear router in a Staples store in my city. A bit more money but I wouldn't have to wait for it.
http://www.staples.com/Netgear-4-Port-Web-Safe-Router-with-10-100-Mbps-Switch/product_487763?cmArea=SC3:CG58:DP1804:CL141703" }-This router will certainly serve your needs. I would not put much faith in that comparison (sorry, BlueZannetti) - as I note the review for that Netgear is a few days shy of 7 years old, and it would appear there have been several version upgrades since then.

If Staples is in your area, you may check Office Max or Office Depot, or Best Buy too for other options - although certainly Netgear is a major player in the home networking field and has a good reputation too.

[BlueZannetti]

-{ Quote: "This router will certainly serve your needs. I would not put much faith in that comparison (sorry, BlueZannetti) - as I note the review for that Netgear is a few days shy of 7 years old, and it would appear there have been several version upgrades since then." }-That's certainly germane, but it would be nice if current numbers were available. Version upgrades won't assure improved routing performance, although I'd agree that there are plenty of examples out there in which the guts of these consumer routers have undergone major revision while retaining the same shell and model numbering.
-{ Quote: "If Staples is in your area, you may check Office Max or Office Depot, or Best Buy too for other options - although certainly Netgear is a major player in the home networking field and has a good reputation too." }-Although I agree that Netgear is a major player and has a decent reputation, my own hardware experience with Netgear has been mixed. I've had a pair of routers and a hub fail over time. In terms of my own experience, the rate of fixes has been a lot higher than other vendors I use/have used (Buffalo, ZyXel, Linksys, D-Link).

Blue

[SweX]

And I have only used routers from DrayTek.
Never got a problem, they just works so to speak ;)

SweX

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "That's certainly germane, but it would be nice if current numbers were available. " }-Yes it would be nice if ALL review sites would keep their listings current. At least that review did include the review dates - something I ALWAYS look for. Sadly, it is often this type outdated, superseded information that fuels continuing but unjust biases. Windows Firewall is a perfect example - people STILL claim it is a bad firewall because they read somewhere it lacked some feature. Well, 10 years ago, that was true. But that was two operating systems and several patches ago. WF today works great - and certainly is easier on resources than many 3rd party firewalls. People still blame and shun IE8 (or praise alternatives) for IE6's woes.

-{ Quote: "Version upgrades won't assure improved routing performance" }-We need to be realistic here. I think after looking at the Netgear614 Product Information Page (http://kb.netgear.com/app/products/family/a_id/1293), we can see the review from 2002 was done on the RP614v1. Three hardware revisions later, it is up to RP614v4, and checking the available downloads, v4 has had a few firmware upgrades too. I think after 3 hardware upgrades and several firmware upgrades, it is safe to assume routing performance has been improved.

-{ Quote: "...although I'd agree that there are plenty of examples out there in which the guts of these consumer routers have undergone major revision while retaining the same shell and model numbering." }-Revision changes are not unique to routers. The same model motherboards often go through several revisions during their life cycle, and can sport significant hardware changes in the process - to include revised chipsets, totally different drive controllers, and other I/O device changes - to the point Windows will think it is a totally different computer. Graphics cards often go through revision changes.

I also think a little research will reveal all the major players have had some reliability issues on some of their products. I like Linksys but I have had more than one product go bad. One had a port go out, the other was a bad power supply. I was not happy in either case, but I don't condemn the entire Linksys product line because of it.

[bgfalconboy]

-{ Quote: "Yes it would be nice if ALL review sites would keep their listings current. At least that review did include the review dates - something I ALWAYS look for. Sadly, it is often this type outdated, superseded information that fuels continuing but unjust biases. Windows Firewall is a perfect example - people STILL claim it is a bad firewall because they read somewhere it lacked some feature. Well, 10 years ago, that was true. But that was two operating systems and several patches ago. WF today works great - and certainly is easier on resources than many 3rd party firewalls. People still blame and shun IE8 (or praise alternatives) for IE6's woes.

We need to be realistic here. I think after looking at the Netgear614 Product Information Page (http://kb.netgear.com/app/products/family/a_id/1293), we can see the review from 2002 was done on the RP614v1. Three hardware revisions later, it is up to RP614v4, and checking the available downloads, v4 has had a few firmware upgrades too. I think after 3 hardware upgrades and several firmware upgrades, it is safe to assume routing performance has been improved.

Revision changes are not unique to routers. The same model motherboards often go through several revisions during their life cycle, and can sport significant hardware changes in the process - to include revised chipsets, totally different drive controllers, and other I/O device changes - to the point Windows will think it is a totally different computer. Graphics cards often go through revision changes.

I also think a little research will reveal all the major players have had some reliability issues on some of their products. I like Linksys but I have had more than one product go bad. One had a port go out, the other was a bad power supply. I was not happy in either case, but I don't condemn the entire Linksys product line because of it." }-

All good points. Next thing to ask I guess might be who has the best warranty if something does fail.

[Bill_Bright]

-{ Quote: "All good points. Next thing to ask I guess might be who has the best warranty if something does fail." }-I think it best if you check the maker's site yourself for the product you are considering.