Malwarebytes claim: IObit is stealing signature databases

[webster]

Important read here http://www.malwarebytes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=29681&pid=152610&st=0&#entry152610

[tipo]

malwarebytes is probably the best anti-malware software out there with the best signatures, one of the best heuristics and removal methods...no wonder iobit steals from them...and probably others do..if i were a security software vendor i would probably steal from them... it`s hard not to... keep up the good work malwarebytes!!! :thumb:

[nosirrah]

{QUOTE-> malwarebytes is probably the best anti-malware software out there with the best signatures, one of the best heuristics and removal methods...no wonder iobit steals from them...and probably others do..if i were a security software vendor i would probably steal from them... it`s hard not to... keep up the good work malwarebytes!!! :thumb: <-QUOTE}


Other companies are smart enough not to do this . Every vendor has trap defs , these fools did not read the rule book .

[De Hollander]

Looks like they took a shortcut, which turns out to be the wrong way ;D ;D

[Baz_kasp]

Read that announcement...thank god they outed themselves. I can't imagine such charlatans amongst the ranks of the security vendors.

[Scoobs72]

A thread that was started on the IOBit forum has been very quickly deleted by the mods.

[LoneWolf]

{QUOTE-> A thread that was started on the IOBit forum has been very quickly deleted by the mods. <-QUOTE}

I saw that. :thumbd:

[ZZZ7]

{QUOTE-> A thread that was started on the IOBit forum has been very quickly deleted by the mods. <-QUOTE}

It figures,it's a terrible program anyway,it flags nothing but FPs.

I'm surprised it is even recommended on this board.

[Scoobs72]

{QUOTE-> I saw that. :thumbd: <-QUOTE}

...and there goes another one deleted. That one lasted all of 3 minutes.

[trjam]

never saw it as my avatar. ;)

[Scoobs72]

{QUOTE-> never saw it as my avatar. ;) <-QUOTE}

Haha! ;D

[clocks]

Malwarebytes is one of the security software companies I felt obligated to buy a license from, as their product is top notch.

[JohnnyDollar]

I just watched them delete another thread on their forums.
A member called them thieves and that they were deleting threads to
hide the truth.

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> Malwarebytes is one of the security software companies I felt obligated to buy a license from, as their product is top notch. <-QUOTE}
I would agree with that. One of the few that offer a free version of their software that is very good. They deserve better.

[LoneWolf]

{QUOTE-> I just watched them delete another post on their forums. <-QUOTE}

I saw two more deleted. :thumbd: :thumbd:

[Scoobs72]

{QUOTE-> I saw two more deleted. :thumbd: :thumbd: <-QUOTE}

I've totalled 4 so far. Whilst it looks highly suspect, iobit should be given a chance to formally respond to the accusation. It looks pretty damning...but you never know.

[trjam]

YOU DONT DELETE POSTS! All that does is prove guilt. They could respond to each one if there is any evidence of innocence. I mean you can lock them, but deleting them just proves you are hiding. Maybe LWM will loan the time-out room to them.;)

[jmonge]

every boddy here at wilders should delete the software from our pcs as we can not trust a company that likes to steal:)

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> every boddy here at wilders should delete the software from our pcs as we can not trust a company that likes to steal:) <-QUOTE}
why did you put it on there to begin with. Come on, you folks jab me and rightfully so but even I am not going to start installing software from a new so called vendor because it looks good. You let people who know what they are doing test it out and then you decide. That is why I love this place.

[jmonge]

{QUOTE-> why did you put it on there to begin with. Come on, you folks jab me and rightfully so but even I am not going to start installing software from a new so called vendor because it looks good. You let people who know what they are doing test it out and then you decide. That is why I love this place. <-QUOTE}i personally tried new software from time to time for testing purposes but look how a trusted company turned to be ''thieves'';D

[LoneWolf]

{QUOTE-> I've totalled 4 so far. <-QUOTE}

And another one bites the dust. :-X

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> i personally tried new software from time to time for testing purposes but look how a trusted company turned to be ''thieves'';D <-QUOTE}
who labeled them as trusted? You? No offense but to me that title is earned with time, not detection.

[Scoobs72]

{QUOTE-> And another one bites the dust. :-X <-QUOTE}

And the guy that posted them has been banned as well. lol

[Fuzzydice45]

I've been a fan of their Advanced SystemCare Pro and Smart Defrag, but after hearing this.. 50 dkp minus!

[jmonge]

i hope they added this software(IObit) to the Malware data base to put it in quarentine;D

[trjam]

well this thread may go on all night, but always keep in mind, there are 2 sides to every story.

[Fuzzydice45]

{QUOTE-> i hope they added this software(IObit) to the Malware data base to put it in quarentine;D <-QUOTE}

Then Security 360 will quarantine itself upon install ::)

[jmonge]

{QUOTE-> Then Security 360 will quarantine itself upon install ::) <-QUOTE}
cool;D

[nosirrah]

{QUOTE-> well this thread may go on all night, but always keep in mind, there are 2 sides to every story. <-QUOTE}

It appears that there are more than 2 here as their seems to be more than one exploited DB . Vendors have been notified to research and confirm .

[Durad]

It should be flagged as roque software by all vendors.

[jmonge]

{QUOTE-> It should be flagged as roque software by all vendors. <-QUOTE}
good idea:thumb:

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> It appears that there are more than 2 here as their seems to be more than one exploited DB . Vendors have been notified to research and confirm . <-QUOTE}
Oh, I am not saying it isnt true and their own actions in their support forums prove to me their guilt. But this is your matter and you should handle it the way you see fit.

[trjam]

the question, what can you do.

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> And the guy that posted them has been banned as well. lol <-QUOTE}

i was the first and original person to post it on their forums and was not banned.

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> well this thread may go on all night, but always keep in mind, there are 2 sides to every story. <-QUOTE}

That is true. We have only heard one side of the story. I take Malwarbytes words over Iobit's word (For personal beliefs that the mods would not like me saying), but this needs to play out a little further. Their forum mods deleting threads and banning members certainly makes them look bad. One of the mods over there said he was temporarily deleting them because it was in the middle of the morning in China and Iobit needed time to respond. Deleting threads and banning members is not the right way to go about responding to this though.

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> That is true. We have only heard one side of the story. I take Malwarbytes words over Iobit's word (For personal beliefs that the mods would not like me saying), but this needs to play out a little further. Their forum mods deleting threads and banning members certainly makes them look bad. One of the mods over there said he was temporarily deleting them because it was in the middle of the morning in China and Iobit needed time to respond. Deleting threads and banning members is not the right way to go about responding to this though. <-QUOTE}
I agree, take them off line like Wilders for further investigation.

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> That is true. We have only heard one side of the story. I take Malwarbytes words over Iobit's word (For personal beliefs that the mods would not like me saying), but this needs to play out a little further. Their forum mods deleting threads and banning members certainly makes them look bad. One of the mods over there said he was temporarily deleting them because it was in the middle of the morning in China and Iobit needed time to respond. Deleting threads and banning members is not the right way to go about responding to this though. <-QUOTE}
Also, the person who is in charge of their forums at this moment may be so intimidated with the thought of being unemployed in the morning that they are acting in a irrational way. Come on, only time will tell then we will all know.

[Scoobs72]

{QUOTE-> i was the first and original person to post it on their forums and was not banned. <-QUOTE}

I must have missed your post then. A user called John Constano was banned according to his repost under the new username JohnCons.

[fcukdat]

{QUOTE-> I agree, take them off line like Wilders for further investigation. <-QUOTE}

We have provided test files(In our original news realease), if anyone cares to verify this for themselves before they start editing their signature database.

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> We have provided test files(In our original news realease), if anyone cares to verify this for themselves before they start editing their signature database. <-QUOTE}
I dont think you have a issue here showing that between the 2 vendors whom members are going to rightfully side with. Your track record stands by itself. Again, you are home here, the question remains what can you do about it. Hopefully something.

\

[Keyboard_Commando]

{QUOTE-> Guys if you feel something needs to be detected or you have some zero-days please submit them here (http://forums.iobit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=22). There's a section for FP's on the forums too if needed.

By the way I am a moderator at IObit forums so I can answer most questions :)

Also, the database is quite small due to it being like that of MalwareBytes. It detects current and active threats, which includes rogues, worms, trojans etc. <-QUOTE}

Like ... almost the same ... infact the same, probably :D

But interesting he got the marketing - It's JUST like Malwarebytes!.

Source (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1482463&postcount=9)

*I'm Sure 333halfevil is innocent in all this drama. Not insinuating anything*

[333halfevil]

Hi guys. I used to be affiliated with IObit.com, so I can answer many questions. As for the specifics such as signatures and the scanning engine, I am not sure of though.

I am just as unhappy about the drama at the moment as you guys. I had no involvement in this issue, but I am searching for an answer.

[BlueZannetti]

To all,

Two off topic posts removed. Stay on topic.

Blue

[the Tester]

I dumped IObit Security 360 before this happened. I wouldn't run anything with their name attached to it now.:thumbd:

That trap that Malware Bites set is strong evidence.
And I agree, you shouldn't delete posts. It's almost an admission.

I wonder if anyone currently with IObit will post here about this?

[3DFireStarteR]

If i was IObit i would just come out with it and give Malwarebytes a % and formally buy the Malwarebytes engine. Also i feel bad for the Chinese because alot of them work for very little money and i guess they really liked the Malwarebytes engine, Who can blame them?

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> If i was IObit i would just come out with it and give Malwarebytes a % and formally buy the Malwarebytes engine. <-QUOTE}
Sure, break into my house and steal my TV, but I will still let you watch it on the weekends if you give me $10.00 a weekend. If true Malwarebytes should nail their crooked, "but yet not proven," asses to the wall.

[Cathoderay]

Show do look an old fashioned Mint Julip sippin Southern Lynch party to me.

Them Malwarebytes boys say it,why hell,Joe Jack!! Its gotta be true!!
Bring me Mah Rope!!

[3DFireStarteR]

{QUOTE-> Sure, break into my house and steal my TV, but I will still let you watch it on the weekends if you give me $10.00 a weekend. If true Malwarebytes should nail their crooked, "but yet not proven," asses to the wall. <-QUOTE}
*Off topic"

Someone broke into my house i would probably let them rent my TV, because the TV is still mine but i make $ from it :)

"Off topic"

But i do find it rather clever how Malwarebytes trapped them.

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> Show do look an old fashioned Mint Julip sippin Southern Lynch party to me.

Them Malwarebytes boys say it,why hell,Joe Jack!! Its gotta be true!!
Bring me Mah Rope!! <-QUOTE}

I think your underestimating the intelligence of your fellow Wilders members.

[nosirrah]

{QUOTE-> Show do look an old fashioned Mint Julip sippin Southern Lynch party to me.

Them Malwarebytes boys say it,why hell,Joe Jack!! Its gotta be true!!
Bring me Mah Rope!! <-QUOTE}

Their scanner is saying it . The only way we could control that is .......

[Cathoderay]

No,what i thank is there has been a rush to judgment.

The Malwarebytes evidence looks solid.
As you would expect.
It is their evidence.
Perhaps it would not be as macho,but it would be more fair,to consider the
time zone difference,and give IObit a chance to respond.

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> Their scanner is saying it . The only way we could control that is ....... <-QUOTE}
Your asking me? I honestly think all is true. And between sites like this and a few other reputable ones, the word is going to spread very quickly. I would not be surprised to see a publication media or two pick up on it. Maybe not as this stuff has happened before but we wont go there. You, have to keep moving forward and let the power of the members, users, people, call it what you want, be the jury and judge and possible the executioner. This will pan out over a few days but more software is sold and/or dies here at Wilders just from the public voice. And isnt that ironic and funny at the same time as it is being done globally but yet who would have thunk it possible.

Malwarebytes has nothing to prove, the astute members here, myself excluded, as I am not astute, just like pretty avatars, will pave the road to what is right.

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> No,what i thank is there has been a rush to judgment.

The Malwarebytes evidence looks solid.
As you would expect.
It is their evidence.
Perhaps it would not be as macho,but it would be more fair,to consider the
time zone difference,and give IObit a chance to respond. <-QUOTE}

I agree as I posted similar thoughts earlier.

{QUOTE-> That is true. We have only heard one side of the story. I take Malwarbytes words over Iobit's word (For personal beliefs that the mods would not like me saying), but this needs to play out a little further. Their forum mods deleting threads and banning members certainly makes them look bad. One of the mods over there said he was temporarily deleting them because it was in the middle of the morning in China and Iobit needed time to respond. Deleting threads and banning members is not the right way to go about responding to this though. <-QUOTE}

[Cathoderay]

"Malwarebytes has nothing to prove."

I am sorry,I thought the accuser had everything to prove.

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> "Malwarebytes has nothing to prove."

I am sorry,I thought the accuser had everything to prove. <-QUOTE}
not when the DNA is inclusive of the charged offender. CSI ya know.;)

[Cathoderay]

Yep,that the thing about CSI,they down play the Day In Court.

Lot of guys still setting on death row with DNA evidence saying they are innocent.

[3DFireStarteR]

{QUOTE-> Their scanner is saying it . The only way we could control that is ....... <-QUOTE}

There is just one thing i don't understand, If i went through all the trouble to crack malwarebytes and reverse engineer it..... I would probably change the names of the "Definition files" if they did this it would have gone undetected.

What i think probably happened is they bought signatures off a 3'rd party company and thought it would be okay because that company is making the signitures for them when in reality they just stole them from other companies.

if you change "Don’t.Steal.Our.Software.A" to "Keygen-Generic#" Then you would be 99% safe from ever being caught out. I have looked into the code of a few different programs using reverse engineering and i have found that VBA32 + Superanti-spyware have similar flaws that would allow for signatures harvesting. And i am sure if the vendor was smart enough they could get away with it easy.

What you guys have to look into is a self decrypting cipher that works like a Cloud antivirus, where is calls home for decryption when the user logs into the computer and does all its decrypting in the cloud and sends back packed encrypted files and during scans decrypts them again in the cloud and so on.

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> Yep,that the thing about CSI,they down play the Day In Court.

Lot of guys still setting on death row with DNA evidence saying they are innocent. <-QUOTE}
You are confusing fact with public perception. Both can be deadly. The reality is, if all our time is wasted here today then Iobit will get their chance to state their case to. I dont see any mods deleting them from here. I totally agree that no one should form any judgement till both sides are told. I said this earlier. But what Iobit doesnt understand, the public perception time table has started running and they are failing to step up and alter father-time.

[arran]

all iobit.com are achieving is giving themselves a bad name. did they really think that this wouldn't get leaked out?

I also notice on their home page http://iobit.com/security360.html they claim Malwarebytes has a low detection rate when we all know that is not the case.



{QUOTE-> A thread that was started on the IOBit forum has been very quickly deleted by the mods. <-QUOTE}


well that says it all then, I class this as evidence.

[prairie dog]

here is a quote from one of their mods:

{QUOTE-> I am not hiding the threads I am temporarily deleting them.

You have to give a chance to IObit to defend themselves.

It is middle of the night in China and I believe they need couple of hours more.

Please stop giving that link if already everbody knows. <-QUOTE}

came from their forum (http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?t=4770) :thumbd: :shifty:
__________________

[333halfevil]

Threads have not been deleted off the IObit forums. They have been temporarily removed until IObit can address them. We do not need a flame war beginning by people who really do not know both sides.

The evidence is incriminating, but I am asking you all to wait for a response by IObit, whether or not they plead guilty or innocent. That will settle the issue, but until then do not assume. The information has been provided by MalwareBytes, and I ask you to read it with a clear mind and read it on an 'as is' basis. In other words, take it for what MalwareBytes has said until IObit responds, and do not assume on any information in the article. Thank you.

[prairie dog]

{QUOTE-> Threads have not been deleted off the IObit forums. They have been temporarily removed until IObit can address them. We do not need a flame war beginning by people who really do not know both sides.

The evidence is incriminating, but I am asking you all to wait for a response by IObit, whether or not they plead guilty or innocent. That will settle the issue, but until then do not assume. The information has been provided by MalwareBytes, and I ask you to read it with a clear mind and read it on an 'as is' basis. In other words, take it for what MalwareBytes has said until IObit responds, and do not assume on any information in the article. Thank you. <-QUOTE}


"Temporarily removing" is hiding in IMO.

[333halfevil]

{QUOTE-> "Temporarily removing" is hiding in IMO. <-QUOTE}

I am not responsible for temporarily removing the threads, I am just relaying the information to you. Once IObit responds the threads will be placed back.

[3DFireStarteR]

{QUOTE-> "Temporarily removing" is hiding in IMO. <-QUOTE}

He should know, He is a Prairie Dog.

[prairie dog]

{QUOTE-> He should know, He is a Prairie Dog. <-QUOTE}

HA!;D

I wish they wouldn't "burrow those threads"

[JohnnyDollar]

We can't respond to these threads right now, so we are going to hide them and ban members who create them. There is a better way to handle it than this. Bad judgment on the moderator's part. I am glad now that I never used Iobit security regardless of how this plays out.

[wtsinnc]

Well...

If they are stealing signatures from Malwarebytes, I wonder what else they might be stealing.

How many computers- worldwide- would you imagine have Iobit 360 (or any of their other applications) installed ?

[arran]

can you see the funny side of this? its mid morning online flame fest entertainment all over the internet on forum sites.

[3DFireStarteR]

{QUOTE-> can you see the funny side of this? its mid morning online flame fest entertainment all over the internet on forum sites. <-QUOTE}

Nerds Unite! Also for some reason the people on the Iobit forums remind me of that "Leave Britney Alone!" guy. *Sobs ;-;*

*Mods deleteing posts here too :)"

[ZZZ7]

Weren't they accused of using HJT in their application, without permission too?

[JohnnyDollar]

All the WOT users are chiming in on this one.

http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/iobit.com

[1000db]

If this proves to be true (and likely it will) IOBit should reimburse all their paid subscribers or at least pay Malwarebytes for each license of 360 sold (plus interest). Where I'm from we would say that IOBit just "screwed the pooch.":o

[andylau]

First, I do not want to say whether IObit is stealing signature databases or not. What I can see as Malwarebytes mentioned was that IObit detect the file with same name as Malwarebytes.

But if it just uses Malwarebytes' naming method, is it steal Malwarebytes' copyright?;D

Naming method has copyright?

Or Use the same naming method = stealing signature databases?

There are many cases that some AV vendors(not oem engine) use the same naming mehtod as others.

Hopes to see more exactly evidences from Malwarebytes

[3DFireStarteR]

{QUOTE-> If it just uses Malwarebytes' naming method, is it steal Malwarebytes' copyright?;D

Naming method has copyright? <-QUOTE}

Not useing nameing method. Missed the point. please read this thread before post :)

[andyman35]

{QUOTE-> i hope they added this software(IObit) to the Malware data base to put it in quarentine;D <-QUOTE}
LOL now that'd be payback and not unjustified given the alleged rogue behaviour of IOBit :P

If this turns out to be true it's truly shameful behaviour,especially since Malwarebytes is just a small player offering a great free product that must be very time consuming to maintain.:thumbd:

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> LOL now that'd be payback and not unjustified given the alleged rogue behaviour of IOBit :P

If this turns out to be true it's truly shameful behaviour,especially since Malwarebytes is just a small player offering a great free product that must be very time consuming to maintain.:thumbd: <-QUOTE}

agreed.

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> agreed. <-QUOTE}

firzen,

Have you been using their product? I saw you listed as a forum member over there. I noticed one member that is defending Iobit here and over at their forum. I can't help but think that he is associated with them or has an axe to grind with MBAM

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> firzen,

Have you been using their product? I saw you listed as a forum member over there. I noticed one member that is defending Iobit here and over at their forum. I can't help but think that he is associated with them. <-QUOTE}

ye i WAS using their product, but their forum is full of idiots so im not bothering anymore, its clear iobit is guilty all ther is to it.

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> ye i WAS using their product, but their forum is full of idiots so im not bothering anymore, its clear iobit is guilty all ther is to it. <-QUOTE}

Wot users are hammering them with negaitve ratings, and I noticed download.com has a few people giving comments referring to this issue with them.

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> Wot users are hammering them with negaitve ratings, and I noticed download.com has a few people giving comments referring to this issue with them. <-QUOTE}

good to hear.

[dcrowe0050]

I tried the program when it first came out and thankfully wasn't impressed.
Been this long and they still haven't responded I say guilty. I Definitely am very happy with MBAM and trust the validity of their accusation.

[333halfevil]

A reply from IObit:

http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?t=4807

[333halfevil]

{QUOTE-> Thanks for that. It'll be interesting to see what happens from here.

One thing I'm observing is that Wilders seems to be filled with a lot of people who react very quickly without hearing both sides of the story.

For me, even after hearing both sides of the story (on informal public internet forums), I still hold off my judgement.

Then again, if everyone was like me, internet (security) forums would be darn boring haha. <-QUOTE}

Yes, I think that is the problem. People have reacted too early and damaged a reputation without taking another side into consideration. But that is the internet for you :)

I hope this clears a lot of things up.

[Scoobs72]

{QUOTE-> A reply from IObit:

http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?t=4807 <-QUOTE}

It's not really a response, it's more the cry of "I didn't do it" from someone being dragged to the gallows. Hopefully the 'legal letter' due later will present the case for the defense.

[333halfevil]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I do not believe that users should go around bashing a product yet. That should be left to the courts and between the CEO's and developers.

[Fly]

A few things:

In http://www.softsailor.com/downloads/10554-how-to-download-iobit-security-360-pro-and-get-a-free-1-year-trial.html it says MBAM is part of IObit.

About the post(s) on the Iobit forum: their English is terrible, and they state they ask their users and 'fans' to submit samples so they can get signatures.
How unprofessional can you get ?

My bet is that they use MBAM somehow. However, since they are in China it may be difficult to take action against IObit.

~ Comment snipped - let's stay on the main point here - Blue ~

One more good reason to stick to reputable vendors for signature-based antimalware programs. That's what I do.

[prairie dog]

{QUOTE-> Yes, I think that is the problem. People have reacted too early and damaged a reputation without taking another side into consideration. But that is the internet for you :)

I hope this clears a lot of things up. <-QUOTE}


How would that clear anything up??? Have you looked at the evidence MBAM has brought forth? The traps they have set? I would love to hear some theories as to how Iobits database all of the sudden had detection for the fake files::)

[Scoobs72]

{QUOTE-> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I do not believe that users should go around bashing a product yet. That should be left to the courts and between the CEO's and developers. <-QUOTE}

"the courts" will never happen given that iobit is Chinese. And what really matters here is what the general public, users and purchasers of their software think. This one is going to be played out in the court of public opinion, so iobit need to present their defense, which so far consists of "hey guys, we wouldn't do that would we? No way..not us...come on fellas, give us a break!".

[qpok]

{QUOTE-> How would that clear anything up??? Have you looked at the evidence MBAM has brought forth? The traps they have set? I would love to hear some theories as to how Iobits database all of the sudden had detection for the fake files::) <-QUOTE}

The evidence seems indeed crushing. You don't need Hercule Poirot to see that IObit is playing a dirty game.

[Scoobs72]

Here's their first response on how they were detecting the sample Malwarebytes planted:

"Maybe one of our user scanned the file with MBAM and ours cannot detect it, then he submitted it and fill the same name as MBAM detected, then some new staff in our company may put it into our database. As I said, we are new face in this market, some of our staff do not have enough experience, they might make some mistake."

Hmmmm!

[Someone]

{QUOTE-> Here's their first response on how they were detecting the sample Malwarebytes planted:

"Maybe one of our user scanned the file with MBAM and ours cannot detect it, then he submitted it and fill the same name as MBAM detected, then some new staff in our company may put it into our database. As I said, we are new face in this market, some of our staff do not have enough experience, they might make some mistake."

Hmmmm! <-QUOTE}
:blink: A rather dubious reply IMHO.

[ePost]

I had IObit 360 installed. Then it occurred to me, that I should clean out residue of Norton 2010 with Norton's extra uninstall tool. That smashed IObit. How do we explain that?

Goodbye, IObit.

[RejZoR]

I know a simple solution for this guys from Malwarebytes. Start adding Iobit Security 360 files to malware definitions. So their own software will be detected by "their own" signatures, corrupting itself in the process. Lol.

[ePost]

WOT turned yellow now. I don't understand why people leave the "Child Safety" category alone. Letting a child install or run stolen software - how safe is that?

http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/iobit.com

[RejZoR]

I think most of ppl think "Child safety" falls under web pages that contain blood, violence, bad language, porn content etc. Well, that's the magic of WOT where community is making decisions. It's not the best but at least it's something.

[cruxx]

The problem of guilt or not is always best assessed with both sides of the story, however IObit's initial lacklustre response and forum sanctions have done nothing but add fuel to the, "there's no smoke without fire" reaction. Seems poor judgement on their part IMO. Trust is hard to build back up as we've seen with other security products.... :-\

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> I think most of ppl think "Child safety" falls under web pages that contain blood, violence, bad language, porn content etc. Well, that's the magic of WOT where community is making decisions. It's not the best but at least it's something. <-QUOTE}Yes, probably. But it is strange that people warn the adults about illegal content but not the children...

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> A few things:

In http://www.softsailor.com/downloads/10554-how-to-download-iobit-security-360-pro-and-get-a-free-1-year-trial.html it says MBAM is part of IObit. <-QUOTE}The post in the link really is the most incriminating information surfaced yet. And note the date on it. I'm dumbfounded...

Also exile366 posted this on MBAM's forum. It qoutes IObit's moderators: http://www.malwarebytes.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=29681&view=findpost&p=152924

[Malkiller]

Hi all IObit form is very much out of reality ... people still been banned posts still been deleted.. IObit is playing hard ball .........

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> Hi all IObit form is very much out of reality ... people still been banned posts still been deleted.. IObit is playing hard ball ......... <-QUOTE}

they seem to be going down the path of denying everything... a providing "proof" that doesnt really prove them innocent...

[Malkiller]

the spin is on going and going and going ........ sad

http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?t=4807

[ePost]

All this commotion gave MBAM forums a new user record. :D From the MBAM forum's main page:

Most users ever online was 876 on Today, 12:21 AM

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> All this commotion gave MBAM forums a new user record. :D From the MBAM forum's main page:

Most users ever online was 876 on Today, 12:21 AM <-QUOTE}

good :thumb:

[Malkiller]

I am giving serious consideration to buying MBAM now cos i need a good anti malware program ////////...

[clocks]

{QUOTE-> I am giving serious consideration to buying MBAM now cos i need a good anti malware program ////////... <-QUOTE}

i bought one about a month ago. They have a lifetime license, and it is cheap.

[Einsturzende]

are there malware which are caught by MBAM and not by iobit360 sigs?
yes, two weeks ago, watch here - http://www.youtube.com/user/languy99#p/u/18/3ZDOiOftwgs
one more thing, is it even possible to steal sigs, aren't they protected somehow by MBAM crew, if not you should ask yourself how they protecting their intellectual properties...

[Kees1958]

Well,

IOBit 360 positioned themselves as an ultra light HIPS and small blacklist data base like MBAM.

Many users may have thought, nice but "like" is not the "same as". The claim of MBAM surely beats that assumption. IObit is now 10th most popular downloaded application om CNET.

So send those email when you really want to help MBAM, otherwsie this claim might be a trivial unintended endorsement for IObit, becasue lots of PC users are looking for bargains.

[QBgreen]

The evidence that the Malwarebytes people have is concrete to my mind. Any 'explanation' that Iobits may come up with will be horse crap at this point. Wouldn't be the first time something like this has gone down with competing authors of security software, nor will it be the last.

[acr1965]

{QUOTE-> the spin is on going and going and going ........ sad

http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?t=4807 <-QUOTE}

From the iobit forum- "Our database is from the online submission form: http://db.iobit.com/deal/sdsubmit/index.php"

The iobit database is mainly derived from an online submission form?

[Zimzi]

@ 333halfevil

In July I tested IObit and expressed my opinion about the program. Among other things, you were told me that for two months IObit will significantly improve detection, and that something big is planned. Would you be so kind to explain what you mean? I do not want to imply that you have any connection with those for which the IObit is accused, just think it would be good to clarify this statement.

the source (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1508980&postcount=148)

[andyman35]

{QUOTE-> Here's their first response on how they were detecting the sample Malwarebytes planted:

"Maybe one of our user scanned the file with MBAM and ours cannot detect it, then he submitted it and fill the same name as MBAM detected, then some new staff in our company may put it into our database. As I said, we are new face in this market, some of our staff do not have enough experience, they might make some mistake."

Hmmmm! <-QUOTE}
That explanation doesn't makes sense to me since how could a user scan the file when the file didn't even exist in the public domain? It was a dummy detection created as a trap.::)

[Saraceno]

IOBit's explanation is very thin to say the least. Surely they'd have a solid explanation to send to users the second the issue was raised.

[andyman35]

{QUOTE-> IOBit's explanation is very thin to say the least. Surely they'd have a solid explanation to send to users the second the issue was raised. <-QUOTE}
They'd have been better saying nothing rather than insulting everyone's intelligence with that response.

In effect what they're saying is that some user performed a scan with MBAM and detected this file (even though it didn't actually exist).Then they scanned with 360 and got no detection and so they submitted this imaginary file to IOBit using the same malware name given to it by MBAM...yeah that clears it all up for me now,storm in a teacup.::)

[Saraceno]

Well, moral of the story, slow and steady (building up satisfied customers) wins the race (solid reputation and sales).

If the allegations are true, I feel sorry for those that worked with/on the program and weren't aware of the 'borrowing' going on. These people being the loyal users, the moderators, support staff, all who wouldn't feel too good right now.

And Malwarebytes, I don't think I can understand how upset they must be, spending night after night working hard improving their program, and the thought of others benefiting from their hard work.

[jmonge]

{QUOTE-> i bought one about a month ago. They have a lifetime license, and it is cheap. <-QUOTE}it is cheap and do the job very well:thumb:

[Fuzzfas]

{QUOTE-> I know a simple solution for this guys from Malwarebytes. Start adding Iobit Security 360 files to malware definitions. So their own software will be detected by "their own" signatures, corrupting itself in the process. Lol. <-QUOTE}

ROFL! That's a good one! ;D


IMHO this is as close as one can get into verifying a conspiracy theory in the internet.

Even if the IoBit's -improbable- explanation is true and some dumb employee simply added the fake sample to their database not bothering to verify if it's real malware or to change the name, this is shooting yourself on the foot as far as reputation of the company goes. Basically they add anything you upload to them without testing to see if it's actual malware? :o ;D


Anyway, probably the luck of IoBit, is that they are in China and opening a legal battle for MBAM will probably be a very costly business , which in a time of global crisis i don't know how realistic is.

But, what we can all do about this, is spread the word.

[ePost]

SiteAdvisor, WOT and the likes are suddenly funny tools now. It's a bit like the paper/pencil game "sinking battleships". Only we know who wins. ;D

Remember to clik IObit red and MBAM green, folks. :thumb:

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> SiteAdvisor, WOT and the likes are suddenly funny tools now. It's a bit like the paper/pencil game "sinking battleships". Only we know who wins. ;D

Remember to clik IObit red and MBAM green, folks. :thumb: <-QUOTE}
The main reason that I never recommend WOT, etc.
What exactly has to do the MB database theft with blacklisting a website as potential malicious,etc.? ::) :dry: :gack: :thumbd:

Panagiotis.

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> The main reason that I never recommend WOT, etc.
What exactly has to do the MB database theft with blacklisting a website as potential malicious,etc.? ::) :dry: :gack: :thumbd:

Panagiotis. <-QUOTE}
Your sense of fairness and the law leaves much to be desired. It is illegal to use stolen goods even if you did not steal them yourself. It's called fencing. Using WOT to warn people is exactly what should be done.

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> Your sense of fairness and the law leaves much to be desired. It is illegal to use stolen goods even if you did not steal them yourself. It's called fencing. Using WOT to warn people is exactly what should be done. <-QUOTE}
I thank god that it is. I not condemn anyone just on accusation and before he has a chance to respond to those accusations.

Law and fairness? Don't make me laugh. What is this, a new internet medieval attitude? :blink: :gack:

Panagiotis

[ePost]

No. It's normal behavior. IObit cracked MBAM's database. Sold thousands of copies of the stolen goods. And gave even more away.

The wast majority of users do not want cracked or stolen software on their computers.

[whitedragon551]

I have 2 free keys for IOBit, and have it installed on both of my win 7 laptops. Apparently its time to uninstall and never return.

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> No. It's normal behavior. IObit cracked MBAM's database. Sold thousands of copies of the stolen goods. And gave even more away.

The wast majority of users do not want cracked or stolen software on their computers. <-QUOTE}
I guess people really like being judge, jury and executioner.
WOT stands for "Web of Trust".
WOT does not stand for "Web of Trial".

Panagiotis

[ePost]

But WOT is the sum of the users judgement. Always was. Thanks heaven for that. Wouldn't like to rely on "experts" such as yourself...

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> But WOT is the sum of the users judgement. Always was. Thanks heaven for that. Wouldn't like to rely on "experts" such as yourself... <-QUOTE}
The reason that I never reccommend it.
Some of its users are "experts" like yourself. ;)
Pretty funny that www.iobit.com was green until yesterday. ;D ;D ;D

Panagiotis

[Fuzzfas]

{QUOTE-> I not condemn anyone just on accusation and before he has a chance to respond to those accusations.

<-QUOTE}

Well, they did reply. This is a forum ,not a court, what do you expect from people? A bit of scandal is like a bit of salt for a forum. ;D

Ok, they did reply. Does the reply sound satisfactory to you? Did you expect them to come out and say "yeah, we ripped off MBAM's database, shame on us, here's our confession, now you can drag us to court with 100% certainty of conviction"?


Their reply is highly improbable. I scan something with MBAM, it's a fake detection that MBAM calls "Don't steal our software" because it's a Keygen for MBAM. I rename this keygen into "Don't Steal our software" and upload it to Iobit. There, the samples analyst, takes the sample, classifies it as malware (while it's not) and adds it as with detection name "Don't steal our software", just because that was the name with which i uploaded it.

What are the chances that all this is true? How plausible is that explanation? I find the whole sequence very un-natural procedure.

If i upload a keygen which i will call "Iobitsucks.A" , Iobit is going to add it as malware with detection name "Iobitsucks.A"? ;D

Even if by satanic coincidence it IS true, then it means, that IoBit is pretty much adding to detections every file you send them , without verifying it.

Either ways, this is a blow to IoBit's reputation.


{QUOTE-> I have 2 free keys for IOBit, and have it installed on both of my win 7 laptops. Apparently its time to uninstall and never return. <-QUOTE}

I got the 1 year free license too, but didn't install it once i saw the realtime protection doesn't work. I mean, what's the point in installing a realtime software that doesn't work in realtime... After this news i am even more happy i uninstalled it, because i don't trust them. If they can steal MBAM's database today, tomorrow they may steal info and data from my PC... People tend to put over-confidence to security software companies, as if these weren't ran by other ordinary people. You don't trust a perfect stranger with the content of your PC, but most people do with security software companies, just because they think that are a special kind of superhumans, who aren't "perfect strangers", so they are trustworthy... And then this happens...

[pandlouk]

Hi Fuzzas,

I do not defend them neither believe they are innocent. But using WOT and similar sites for starting crusade campaings make me laugh at least.... Especially when people downloaded and installed iobit based in the opinions of the same sites (until yesterday).

Panagiotis

[Fuzzfas]

Oh, i agree about Side Advisors in general. I never use them. McAfee site advisor even had Filseclab red... It's more of a popularity contest rather than real information.

[Baz_kasp]

In my eyes it is clear IOBit is playing dirty here.

They deleted the first thread that incriminated them, heavens knows why..... then they give some kind of half hearted statements implying all their analysts are feeble minded and the naming choices/file detections were all just big coincidences. Maybe if it happened with one file we could put it down to bad luck, but the evidence here is overwhelming.

IOBit will probably start twisting the story by creating fake signatures to try and justify their inclusion of the "dummy files" and saying they detected other malware with the same name as the dummy file or whatever but it's all desperate attempts to stop the inevitable...

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> Hi Fuzzas,

I do not defend them neither believe they are innocent. But using WOT and similar sites for starting crusade campaings make me laugh at least.... Especially when people downloaded and installed iobit based in the opinions of the same sites (until yesterday).

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}
pandlouk, we can't base our downloads on clairvoyance. We can only react to facts in order of their appearance.

[ePost]

Hey! Some news here - there's quite a piece on CNET now acknowledging MBAM's claim.

Article: http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10389650-245.html

And here we have about.com: http://antivirus.about.com/b/2009/11/03/iobit-steals-malwarebytes-intellectual-property.htm

This story is really developing, I must say...

[Fuzzfas]

Sorry if this has been already posted (i don't remember), but this is also interesting:

This is an Oct 24 article-review on IobIt:


{QUOTE-> The virus scan found mostly cookies on my machine. The virus scan also found “Hijack.DisplayProperties.” Interestingly, this is identical to what MalwareBytes Antispyware finds and is not a result of malicious modification.

http://freeantivirushelp.com/blog/post/2009/10/24/IObit-Security-360-Review-and-Download.aspx
<-QUOTE}

The HijackDisplayProperties detection is a registry key detection, which MBAM flags if you have changed display settings (because theoretically a malware can also do that to camouflage itself).

I have that FALSE POSITIVE , in every scan in Win7 x64 and it's a false positive because it is flagged even after a clean install.


Here's my own screenshot from MBAM Free:

213473

Yet another satanic coincidence... I suppose by luck they decided to flag the same, generally harmless registry key, as detection and with the same name...

I suppose some user of MBAM, saw this "detection", exported the registry key, renamed it to "HiJackDisplayProperties" , sent it to Iobit, where the same samples analyst put it in the detection list with the same name. ;D

Or, both companies had by coincidence the idea to name the same key with the same name.

The key itself, doesn't help at all the imagination to call it like that (there is no mention about Display Properties).

213474

[ePost]

The mainstream media is picking up on this. Now ZDNet is blogging about it: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-360170.html

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> Hi Fuzzas,

I do not defend them neither believe they are innocent. But using WOT and similar sites for starting crusade campaings make me laugh at least.... Especially when people downloaded and installed iobit based in the opinions of the same sites (until yesterday).

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}

The bad WOT rating is for ethical issues.http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/iobit.com

I think that is a fair assessment at this point and would not recommend anyone install the software based on what we know. As far as ratings go IMO it is better to be on the safe side than not.
I would rather have a rating system that was slightly overzealous than the other way around.

[Technical]

{QUOTE-> That is true. We have only heard one side of the story. Deleting threads and banning members is not the right way to go about responding to this though. <-QUOTE}
Agree.
I've removed their Defragmentation tool after the evidence of stealing.
I hate freeware that becomes shareware. That was what they did with the old Advanced Windows Care.
No iObit products until we get sure they're clean.

[Malkiller]

I used to use Iobit 360 but since i have been using Malwarebytes database without knowing it in 360 i have uninstalled all iobit software and bought Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware...looking forward to using it for a long time........

[overangry]

{QUOTE-> are there malware which are caught by MBAM and not by iobit360 sigs?
yes, two weeks ago, watch here - http://www.youtube.com/user/languy99#p/u/18/3ZDOiOftwgs
one more thing, is it even possible to steal sigs, aren't they protected somehow by MBAM crew, if not you should ask yourself how they protecting their intellectual properties... <-QUOTE}

Read post #5
http://www.malwarebytes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=29681&pid=152610&st=0&#entry152610

[333halfevil]

{QUOTE-> @ 333halfevil

In July I tested IObit and expressed my opinion about the program. Among other things, you were told me that for two months IObit will significantly improve detection, and that something big is planned. Would you be so kind to explain what you mean? I do not want to imply that you have any connection with those for which the IObit is accused, just think it would be good to clarify this statement.

the source (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1508980&postcount=148) <-QUOTE}

Well from what I was told, IObit was putting a lot of resources (money and staff) into Security 360. They were developing an anti-keylogger, and a means of collecting large amounts of malware off the web. I was not part of the development so information like this was very scarce to me.

[Fuzzfas]

{QUOTE-> ...They were developing an anti-keylogger, and a means of collecting large amounts of malware off the web... <-QUOTE}

Well, that's certainly a way to put it! MBAM's database has large amounts of malware! ROFLMAO! :argh: ;D

[overangry]

{QUOTE-> Hi Fuzzas,

I do not defend them neither believe they are innocent. But using WOT and similar sites for starting crusade campaings make me laugh at least.... Especially when people downloaded and installed iobit based in the opinions of the same sites (until yesterday).

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}

I can,t understand why this would make you laugh???
Yesterday IOBIT was assumed to be a reputable security software vendor, yes WOT was green.
Today we know they are criminals and users have informed the WOT community of there concerns, now rated yellow, and hopefully soon red.
Trustworthiness = Poor (surely they cannot be trusted especially with your private data)
Vendor reliability = Poor (Who is to say they wouldn't thieve data from my machine)?
Privacy = Poor (For the reasons mentioned above)

WOT is doing exactly that what it is meant to, that is help the user make a decision on the TRUSTWORTHINESS of web sites;)

Yesterday trusted, today they are not:shifty:

[Zimzi]

{QUOTE-> Well from what I was told, IObit was putting a lot of resources (money and staff) into Security 360. They were developing an anti-keylogger, and a means of collecting large amounts of malware off the web. I was not part of the development so information like this was very scarce to me. <-QUOTE}

Thanks for the explanation. I am sorry that you are found in such situation to give explanations. The fact that you are not simply disappeared from the Forum, but to carefully read our posts and you are ready to brought some explanations tell me that you are responsible and fair member of this Forum.

[333halfevil]

{QUOTE-> Thanks for the explanation. I am sorry that you are found in such situation to give explanations. The fact that you are not simply disappeared from the Forum, but to carefully read our posts and you are ready to brought some explanations tell me that you are responsible and fair member of this Forum. <-QUOTE}

Thank you :) Yes, I am being heavily scrutinized by everyone at the moment for something I had no knowledge about :what: But I am not going to hide from it as I have nothing to hide for :D

{QUOTE-> Well, that's certainly a way to put it! MBAM's database has large amounts of malware! ROFLMAO! :argh: ;D <-QUOTE}

By use of honeypots and honeyclients :P

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> I can,t understand why this would make you laugh???
Yesterday IOBIT was assumed to be a reputable security software vendor, yes WOT was green.
Today we know they are criminals and users have informed the WOT community of there concerns, now rated yellow, and hopefully soon red.
Trustworthiness = Poor (surely they cannot be trusted especially with your private data)
Vendor reliability = Poor (Who is to say they wouldn't thieve data from my machine)?
Privacy = Poor (For the reasons mentioned above)

WOT is doing exactly that what it is meant to, that is help the user make a decision on the TRUSTWORTHINESS of web sites;)

Yesterday trusted, today they are not:shifty: <-QUOTE}
Exactly that, is what makes me laugh!
The same people that until yesterday reccomended it as safe (simple because they had no evidence of the opposite), today ban it as unsafe based only on a blog.
I really wonder how many of them have really run that simple test, to confirm MB accusations before making an opinion? (have you run that test yourself?)
Probably a very small part of those users. Their judgement is based only in another ones word, even if it is is a valid one.
And what if tomorrow MB (hypothetically speaking) make another blogpost saying "oops we made a mistake, sorry about the confusion"; because they got to an aggreement with iobit or for another reason? Are they going to haste in marking iobit's site as safe again?

Panagiotis

[Baz_kasp]

{QUOTE-> Exactly that, is what makes me laugh!
The same people that until yesterday reccomended it as safe (simple because they had no evidence of the opposite), today ban it as unsafe based only on a blog.
I really wonder how many of them have really run that simple test, to confirm MB accusations before making an opinion? (have you run that test yourself?)
Probably a very small part of those users. Their judgement is based only in another ones word, even if it is is a valid one.
And what if tomorrow MB (hypothetically speaking) make another blogpost saying "oops we made a mistake, sorry about the confusion"; because they got to an aggreement with iobit or for another reason? Are they going to haste in marking iobit's site as safe again?

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}

In that case users can change their ratings and it would balance out. The system is based on a smart algorithm, not just a "500 bad comments=red" type system.

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> In that case users can change their ratings and it would balance out. The system is based on a smart algorithm, not just a "500 bad comments=red" type system. <-QUOTE}
I know, and this is the problem. Iobit's site during the WOTs period of green -> yellow -> red -> yellow -> green, won't have actually changed at all...

Panagiotis

[Pedro]

Yeah i bet. 500 - 500 = 0. Wow, what an algorithm ;D

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> Yeah i bet. 500 - 500 = 0. Wow, what an algorithm ;D <-QUOTE}
;D ;D ;D ROFLMAO ;D ;D ;D

[Baz_kasp]

{QUOTE-> Yeah i bet. 500 - 500 = 0. Wow, what an algorithm ;D <-QUOTE}

Actually comments dont affect the rating of a site, only real ratings, from real people using the program count.


Anyway, Malwarebytes CEO responds to iobit statement:

http://www.malwarebytes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=29772&view=getnewpost

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> Exactly that, is what makes me laugh!
The same people that until yesterday reccomended it as safe (simple because they had no evidence of the opposite), today ban it as unsafe based only on a blog.
I really wonder how many of them have really run that simple test, to confirm MB accusations before making an opinion? (have you run that test yourself?)
Probably a very small part of those users. Their judgement is based only in another ones word, even if it is is a valid one.
And what if tomorrow MB (hypothetically speaking) make another blogpost saying "oops we made a mistake, sorry about the confusion"; because they got to an aggreement with iobit or for another reason? Are they going to haste in marking iobit's site as safe again?

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}

I understand where you are coming from. I try to look at things objectively, and will not sit here and say "They are guilty thieves". I am also not naive either, and I think it is prudent to suspect that there exists some foul play involved here. I admit that users have gotten pretty hasty with their ratings and comments regarding IoBit. Site ratings are certainly not perfect, just like everything else. One must keep in mind though, that we are not in the court of law, but in the court of public opinion. Regardless of whether Iobit is guilty of this or not, users blackballing them on forums and site ratings will hopefully send a deterring message to any would be organizations looking for easy money that their actions will be publicized and scrutinized.

[cruelsister]

Panagiotis- If you read the initial MB release, it is stated that there is much evidence that they won't disclose prior to legal action. The dummy.exe file was only one example.

With this in mind I think it is well beyond any here to verify or refute anything.

I do however agree with you that many at Wilders are a bit faddish with new toys. Formerly was a love affair with Rising.

[the Tester]

{QUOTE->
I do however agree with you that many at Wilders are a bit faddish with new toys. Formerly was a love affair with Rising. <-QUOTE}

The flip side to that is that every program had to start somewhere.
And curiosity gets the best of some us on occasion.

[DOSawaits]

{QUOTE-> Actually comments dont affect the rating of a site, only real ratings, from real people using the program count.


Anyway, Malwarebytes CEO responds to iobit statement:

http://www.malwarebytes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=29772&view=getnewpost <-QUOTE}
What a bunch of bollocks is that ?
Does that mean noone may say something is malware unless they have been victimized by it themselves ?

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> I understand where you are coming from. I try to look at things objectively, and will not sit here and say "They are guilty thieves". I am also not naive either, and I think it is prudent to suspect that there exists some foul play involved here. I admit that users have gotten pretty hasty with their ratings and comments regarding IoBit. Site ratings are certainly not perfect, just like everything else. One must keep in mind though, that we are not in the court of law, but in the court of public opinion. Regardless of whether Iobit is guilty of this or not, users blackballing them on forums and site ratings will hopefully send a deterring message to any would be organizations looking for easy money that their actions will be publicized and scrutinized. <-QUOTE}
Exactly! History have sawn that Public Opinion ia easily manipulated.
In Mid-ages a rumor that a innocent woman was a witch, would usually had as result to be burnt alive!
{QUOTE-> Panagiotis- If you read the initial MB release, it is stated that there is much evidence that they won't disclose prior to legal action. The dummy.exe file was only one example.

With this in mind I think it is well beyond any here to verify or refute anything.

I do however agree with you that many at Wilders are a bit faddish with new toys. Formerly was a love affair with Rising. <-QUOTE}
I have read it. But I prefer to investigate further or at least wait, before making a judgment.
Haste is never a good companion to reason. ;)

That said I do agree that iobit, have being caught stealing... big time...:P

Panagiotis

[arran]

{QUOTE-> Very interesting. Can't wait to see what happens next. <-QUOTE}

don't think much more will happen from here on in, IObit can't really come up with any more Logical explanations/excuses etc. they will probably start to disappear and website eventually go down.

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> don't think much more will happen from here on in, IObit can't really come up with any more Logical explanations/excuses etc. they will probably start to disappear and website eventually go down. <-QUOTE}

i doubt it since they have many other products as well, maybe just their IObit 360 part.

[Baz_kasp]

{QUOTE-> What a bunch of bollocks is that ?
Does that mean noone may say something is malware unless they have been victimized by it themselves ? <-QUOTE}


No...you misunderstood....WOT ratings and WOT comments are two different things. Ratings can only be left by people registered, with an account who are using the WOT software. This means using the slider things to rate a site on each of the categories.

The comments are there to describe why they think a site is bad but it does not affect the site rating. I didnt mean to say only people using the scam software can rate the site.

[arran]

{QUOTE-> i doubt it since they have many other products as well, maybe just their IObit 360 part. <-QUOTE}

Lets say for arguments sake they dumped the IObit 360 part and kept the other products and site going.

How long do you think they could put up with people constantly bashing them?
Their reputation has gone and spreading. Their products are starting to be removed from all over the net, so their sales are gonna be next to nothing. IObit's days are numbered.

[06Dolphin_Spirit]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here (as most of you can guess) and more the reading type.

I've been following this since yesterday when first came across the post in Malwarebytes' blog.

I want to ask a question - please don't laugh at me about this, I'm not that tech savvy.
In the 3rd paragraph from the bottom of the original Malwarebytes' post (blog) it says: "… we uncovered additional evidence that IOBit may have stolen the proprietary databases of other security vendors as well…”.
And this statement was repeated today in the forum.
How can Malwarebytes’ identify which defs in the database is of which vendor (beside its own)? I mean, since the various security vendors are rival companies, how can one have specific knowledge of another’s defs? And I'm not reffering to the common ones.

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> Lets say for arguments sake they dumped the IObit 360 part and kept the other products and site going.

How long do you think they could put up with people constantly bashing them?
Their reputation has gone and spreading. Their products are starting to be removed from all over the net, so their sales are gonna be next to nothing. IObit's days are numbered. <-QUOTE}

well Comodo seems to still be up and running with their free products... :-\ but thats for a different discussion that we wont start here.

[overangry]

{QUOTE-> Exactly that, is what makes me laugh!
The same people that until yesterday reccomended it as safe (simple because they had no evidence of the opposite), today ban it as unsafe based only on a blog.
I really wonder how many of them have really run that simple test, to confirm MB accusations before making an opinion? (have you run that test yourself?)
Probably a very small part of those users. Their judgement is based only in another ones word, even if it is is a valid one.
And what if tomorrow MB (hypothetically speaking) make another blogpost saying "oops we made a mistake, sorry about the confusion"; because they got to an aggreement with iobit or for another reason? Are they going to haste in marking iobit's site as safe again?

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}
Panagiotis I can understand your point of view. I however made a choice to post my comment on WOT, because I personally believe the argument MBAM had brought forward was valid. The response of IOBIT was a joke. Banning members deleting posts didn't help. I don't believe there is or was a global conspiracy instigated by MBAM to tarnish or destroy the reputation of IOBIT.
I made this choice, after looking at the evidence available to me.

~Off topic comments removed.~

[dcrowe0050]

Honestly it does not matter the outcome for me, just the way that this was handled by Iobit is enough for me not to trust them anymore. Their is definitely foul play involved but for me their lackadaisical reply and some other unbelievable comments by admins on their forum is just to shady, too much like they are afraid to say something definitive or do not have much to say at all.

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> Hi everyone,
I'm new here (as most of you can guess) and more the reading type.

I've been following this since yesterday when first came across the post in Malwarebytes' blog.

I want to ask a question - please don't laugh at me about this, I'm not that tech savvy.
In the 3rd paragraph from the bottom of the original Malwarebytes' post (blog) it says: "… we uncovered additional evidence that IOBit may have stolen the proprietary databases of other security vendors as well…”.
And this statement was repeated today in the forum.
How can Malwarebytes’ identify which defs in the database is of which vendor (beside its own)? I mean, since the various security vendors are rival companies, how can one have specific knowledge of another’s defs? And I'm not reffering to the common ones. <-QUOTE}
They cannot have specific knowledge. Unless they reversed engineered iobits database and the database of the other vendors (which is illegal...).
Probably the have confronted the online databases (iobits and other companies) malware names, and they found a lot of equal names.

And this is the reason that MB made a "trap fake-malware".

ps. I hope that they did not reverse engineered iobits, because if they did the whole issue gets alot more complicated...

Panagiotis

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> Comodo's Toolbar sins are nothing compared to this. <-QUOTE}

i never said anything about their toolbar, but lets leave it at this since this isnt the thread for it...

[ronjor]

Some comments and posts removed.

Let's not drag other programs or vendors into this thread.

The best approach would be to let things settle out a bit in this matter before posting.

[Malkiller]

http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?t=4826 Iobit has now moved up to deleting threads on their form.......... when will the madness stop!!!!!!!!

[JohnnyDollar]

Thought this was interesting, I had not heard of this before. Can't say I am surprised though:

http://blogs.computerworld.com/15026/iobit_accused_of_stealing_from_malwarebytes

{QUOTE-> A commenter at CNET pointed out something else interesting. The web page for IObit Security 360 claims the software was "featured" at places that have no information about it at all. Sure enough, a search for IObit at Forbes.com, bizjournals.com, reuters.com and hoovers.com came up empty at each site. <-QUOTE}

[apm]

Malwarebytes really has quite alot forum posts everywhare nearly at every security forums. After all, both Malwarebytes & IOBit will be killed, slowly, by the successful of Microsoft Security Essentials, together with other small players.

[Peaches4U]

Update on this topic ..

{QUOTE-> November 3, 2009 10:32 AM PST
Malwarebytes accuses rival of software theft
by Elinor Mills

Malwarebytes is accusing China-based computer security firm IObit of intellectual property theft, but IObit denied the allegations and said there were problems with its malware submission site.

Malwarebytes claims IObit stole from its database of signatures of malicious applications that its software uses for detecting malware on customer computers.

Malwarebytes discovered that IObit's Security 360 free anti-malware software was flagging a specific key generator piece of code for Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware software and using the same naming scheme, which includes the phrase "Don't Steal Our Software," according to a blog post on the Malwarebytes.org site. <-QUOTE}

More on this topic plus screenshots – CNET News - http://news.cnet.com/security/

[acr1965]

{QUOTE-> Update on this topic ..



More on this topic plus screenshots – CNET News - http://news.cnet.com/security/ <-QUOTE}

Saw this in that story-

{QUOTE-> " Iobit said it would soon release a legal letter an explanation about the technical aspects that proves its case. In the meantime, IObit temporarily deleted all disputed items in its database to avoid "dispute and possible problems" and disabled its malware submission page, the company said in a blog post.
Basically, someone submitted samples with the name used by another vendor, the post says.
"Unfortunately, IObit database analyzer carelessly used the names provided by the submission. This mistake can be understood because it is very normal--Many enthusiastic IObit users find there are samples missed by IObit Security 360 but detected by other anti-malware products, then they would submit these samples to us and provide names defined by other anti-malware vendors."
"There are holes and problems with IObit malware submission procedure and database management," the post concluded. " <-QUOTE}

Does this explanation hold much water? Seems like if a malware were submitted to Iobit there would still have to be some confirming the submission was not a false positive- even if it was flagged by another vendor. There would have to be some oversight between the submission and actual entry of the sig to Iobit 360.

[Fuzzydice45]

{QUOTE-> Does this explanation hold much water? Seems like if a malware were submitted to Iobit there would still have to be some confirming the submission was not a false positive- even if it was flagged by another vendor. There would have to be some oversight between the submission and actual entry of the sig to Iobit 360. <-QUOTE}

Well the problem with that explanation is that someone would have to actually have the file so they could scan it, realise MBAM could detect it and IObit360 couldn't, then submit it.

But the MBAM team never released the file to the public.

What few excuses we are getting from IObit are immediately thrown out of the window due to the evidence supplied by the MBAM team.

[arran]

{QUOTE-> Malwarebytes really has quite alot forum posts everywhare nearly at every security forums. After all, both Malwarebytes & IOBit will be killed, slowly, by the successful of Microsoft Security Essentials, together with other small players. <-QUOTE}

Just because IOBit will be killed doesn't mean to say Malwarebytes will also be killed. since when has microsoft been able to provide bullet proof security on pc's? there will always be market for other security apps.

MOST IMPORTANTLY.I just wanna say. I have noticed people bashing china on various forums. STOP thinking and acting with your emotions. this does not mean to say that all chinese vendors are evil, good remarkable original products have come from china. So please lets not get into the mindset that all chinese vendors are untrustworthy.

[Kees1958]

{QUOTE-> Well the problem with that explanation is that someone would have to actually have the file so they could scan it, realise MBAM could detect it and IObit360 couldn't, then submit it.

But the MBAM team never released the file to the public.

What few excuses we are getting from IObit are immediately thrown out of the window due to the evidence supplied by the MBAM team. <-QUOTE}

Ahh, besides not publicing it to the public they also covered every scenario

MBAM, planned it very well. They must have had some scenario's ready depending on IOBits's reaction of their first claim, as explained in MBAM's follow up post and follow up proof http://www.malwarebytes.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=29772&view=findpost&p=153225

A new - new combo can slip through (not analysed by a IObit person, submitted by a IObit customer), although normally AV/AS comanies are keen on bragging new-new combo's on their blogs, but these combination is so unlikely to be submitted by a client (becuase it involves classifying the new samples)

a) the new variants have not been referred to in the wild before MBAM own follow up post (as Fuzzy pointed out)
b) a fake new class name for an existing signature (exact match)
c) a fake new signature was made for an existing class name (exact match)

Somebody (a person) at IObit should have noticed, classifying them, while an automated classification process should not make such a mistake

[acr1965]

How does IObit get signatures from MBAM that were never released to the public? Is this MBAM database somehow accessible from the outside? Or is MBAM suggesting this was an inside job- someone inside MBAM sending the signature database to IObit?

[Kees1958]

{QUOTE-> How does IObit get signatures from MBAM that were never released to the public? Is this MBAM database somehow accessible from the outside? Or is MBAM suggesting this was an inside job- someone inside MBAM sending the signature database to IObit? <-QUOTE}

No these signatures where hidden fonies in the data base (poisened trap), which were reversed engineered by Iobit, besided the time element they covered all combo's which more or less prooves an automated reverse engineering process.

When you are not having a pure "in the cloud AV/AS", you update/download the blacklist data base on your PC's harddisk every day, when you know how it is structured (what field names are in it, in what format), you can reverse engineere it and 'read the info'. So it is not nessecary an inside job.

Regards Kees

[arran]

{QUOTE-> It will be interesting to see what happens once 64-bit becomes main-stream in say 5-10 years. There are at least 2 (probably 3) popular products (on Wilders) that I can think of who aren't willing to release (less secure) 64-bit versions of their product.
<-QUOTE}

in 5-10 years when 64-bit becomes the main stream there will probably be a 128 bit and all security vendors will then have apps for 64 bit but not 128 bit ? that's what I think will happen .

[Inspector Clouseau]

{QUOTE-> I have noticed people bashing china on various forums. STOP thinking and acting with your emotions. this does not mean to say that all chinese vendors are evil <-QUOTE}

I have to add something to that. (And yes, it's not directly related to the topic but i think i'd like to add that here)

Somehow 3 weeks ago i came across this crazy product. A wrist watch with basically everything. Phone, TV, Radio, Audio Player, Bluetooth, Organizer, Video Camera, Photo Camera and the whole 9 yard. I thought wow... Reading more on that i discovered it comes with 2 spare batteries (rechargeable) includes a stereo bluetooth headset, USB chargers and so called "World Chargers". Then i saw the price and was like "WTF? That has to be a scam".

Usually we meet at 6th floor in our company building for smoking. So i told a couple of guys that. Everyone replied "Oh you will be scammed for sure for that price and oh it comes from china they will double charge you as well"

So i said damn it, let's try it. It wasn't a big risk since it was around 100 bucks (USD) INCLUDING SHIPPING from china.

I went directly up trying to order it. I was unable to pay directly. They only accept Paypal. That was the moment when i stocked for a short moment. But heck, i couldn't resist. Now i wanna know what happens. Ding! Ordered.

That was on a Thursday evening. Friday morning someone send me a confirmation that the item has been packed and shipped and is on it's way to USA. No FedEx tracking number at this time....

Everyone at work "Oh well you know that's nothing new they tell that to all scammed people". Hm..... Let's see

Over the full weekend until Monday Morning no FedEx Tracking number. HOWEVER.... Someone called me from China! In broken english she was telling me "Lello Sirl yol iltem allives tolday." I checked emails and yes... a tracking number. Clicked on it and it was already in Florida out for delivery.

Sprinted to work and yes - it arrived. To make it short: I dumped my 32GB 3GS iPhone in favor for the chinese "crap". Believe it or not, it just works as advertised and has a better phone call quality than i ever managed to reach with the iPhone. And it's a damn watch. With loudspeakers and bluetooth. No need to carry something in your pockets and to stand up and pull out the damn phone when someone calls.

That was basically the best and most enjoyable purchase i've had in the past years. Perfect shipping time (considering shipping was priced at 12 bucks with FedEx!) And top-notch quality of the watch. It even came in a black wooden box.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> That was basically the best and most enjoyable purchase i've had in the past years. Perfect shipping time (considering shipping was priced at 12 bucks with FedEx!) And top-notch quality of the watch. It even came in a black wooden box. <-QUOTE}Which only goes to illustrate that the mindless generalizations and unsupported extrapolations that all too many freely engage in are just that - mindless generalizations and extrapolations.

There are plenty of charlatans out there. They know no geographic boundaries. They reside everywhere.

Let's lay off the mindless generalizations and focus on the specific issue at hand moving forward. That is always the most productive course of action.

Blue

[Kees1958]

{QUOTE-> Usually we meet at 6th floor in our company building for smoking. <-QUOTE}

Well I guess that smoking "in the cloud" at level 6, does create this irresistable urge for more gadgets to reach cloud 7. :-X

[Edwin024]

Nice story!

I can't say that I am against Chinese products either. The country is arising, with all the same problems as children who grow up. I for one hope that IObit learns from this and grows into a real mature company.

But the way Malwarebytes works doesn't get my approval either. This shouldn't be fought out in public. Silent diplomacy would have been better, until one of the parties clearly didn't want to coopertate. And that is what I miss in MWB's actions.

The IObit stuff works great on Win7 by the way.

[Malkiller]

I must admit I am really surprised to find that Iobit 360 had items in their data base related to Malwarebyte´s data base .

In my personal opinion, and after checking in the different forums and the different products, without a shadow of a doubt IObit used malawarebyte´s data base.


Anyway and regardless about this issue, but to make things worse, now IObits products include a damn toolbar .

The most surprising thing is that this tool bar isnt even theirs::



Thats the tool bar and it really belongs to Conduit.ltd. see here (http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?p=29311&posted=1#post29311)



So in short: How the hell does a security program like Iobit 360 or a optimizer like Advanced include an Adware-Malware?

Getting better lads


Grettings to all.

[Einsturzende]

Why another name for malware when already created is good enough, less different names and less confusing... also respect for original finder...
How do we know someone from MBAM crew does not submit incriminated file/s to iobit public submission server?
lousy job done by Iobit does not imply they are stealing... too much coincidence, yes, but yet iobit misses too much malware which MBAM catch to say iobit stealing or reverse engineering MBAMs base...

[MikeNash]

{QUOTE-> I have to add something to that. (And yes, it's not directly related to the topic but i think i'd like to add that here)

Somehow 3 weeks ago i came across this crazy product. A wrist watch with basically everything. Phone, TV, Radio, Audio Player, Bluetooth, Organizer, Video Camera, Photo Camera and the whole 9 yard. I thought wow... Reading more on that i discovered it comes with 2 spare batteries (rechargeable) includes a stereo bluetooth headset, USB chargers and so called "World Chargers". Then i saw the price and was like "WTF? That has to be a scam".
<-QUOTE}

I saw those too on a site and didnt order. Can you PM me the link, please. I'd love a phone watch :)

What talk time do you get ?

[Inspector Clouseau]

{QUOTE-> I saw those too on a site and didnt order. Can you PM me the link, please. I'd love a phone watch :)

What talk time do you get ? <-QUOTE}

If you use the phone in the watch "normal" means around 10-20 phone calls per day it lasts for ridiculous 3 days without charging. Depends of course how long are the calls but i'd guess you get at least 4 to 5 hours talk time in a charge. (Also depends if you use loud speakers on the phone or BT headset)

Playing music full volume over the watches speakers (really loud and actually quite good) goes for around 4.5 hours. That i can confirm because i used that a couple of times. So over all i'm quite happy with it. Only drawback is writing SMS. Because the screen is too small you have to use (the included!) stylus type. Not a big issue for me because i prefer anyway to call instead of sms.

[Chubb]

{QUOTE-> I know a simple solution for this guys from Malwarebytes. Start adding Iobit Security 360 files to malware definitions. So their own software will be detected by "their own" signatures, corrupting itself in the process. Lol. <-QUOTE}

Excellent solution!! :thumb::thumb:;D;D

[bonedriven]

IObit is from China? ???

Where can I find that information?

[Durad]

We hope its gonna last you for a long time ;D

[Fuzzfas]

Hilarious picture at downloadsquad:

http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/11/03/malwarebytes-definition-database-stolen-misused-by-iobit/

[firzen771]

if u wanna hear something REALLY shocking, IObit hosts a porn game sort of site on their server, here is a NON-clickable link for it so plz dont remove this, people need to see how despicable iobit really is for a security company...

and almost every link on that site sends u to the iobit main site and starts a download prompt... this is just terrible from a security company.

iobit.com/porn-game

[ePost]

I think this is new. That download popup wasn't always there? The porn is also new, I think? I wonder if their site was hacked?

[PrevxHelp]

In case this hasn't been mentioned before, take a look at this page: http://www.iobit.com/pressroom.html and quickly google the text of any of the reviews :(

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> IObit is from China? ???

Where can I find that information? <-QUOTE}
All over the internet. In several posts and links in this thread. ;D

[Keyboard_Commando]

{QUOTE-> In case this hasn't been mentioned before, take a look at this page: http://www.iobit.com/pressroom.html and quickly google the text of any of the reviews :( <-QUOTE}

Yep, Good spot!

Seems like this scammer title they've now got is earned.

Results 1 - 1 of 1 for The Times Review - Advanced WindowsCare v2 Personal "If you want to give your PC a full MoT, try downloading Advanced SystemCare Free from www.iobit.com/ advancedwindowscareper.html , free of charge. This software includes a start-up manager that will advise you which programs it’s safe to stop from running at start-up. It also includes a bevy of powerful tools to stop spyware and performs clever tricks such as slightly reducing the quality of the thumbnail images that appear when you open a folder of digital photos, so that you don’t suffer that irritating delay. ". (0.71 seconds)
Search Results

1.
IObit - Press Room

^^ Google search.

The cheating buggers. Also searched The Times website and not one result.

[EliteKiller]

{QUOTE-> Yep, Good spot!

Seems like this scammer title they've now got is earned.

Results 1 - 1 of 1 for The Times Review - Advanced WindowsCare v2 Personal "If you want to give your PC a full MoT, try downloading Advanced SystemCare Free from www.iobit.com/ advancedwindowscareper.html , free of charge. This software includes a start-up manager that will advise you which programs it’s safe to stop from running at start-up. It also includes a bevy of powerful tools to stop spyware and performs clever tricks such as slightly reducing the quality of the thumbnail images that appear when you open a folder of digital photos, so that you don’t suffer that irritating delay. ". (0.71 seconds)
Search Results

1.
IObit - Press Room

^^ Google search.

The cheating buggers. Also searched The Times website and not one result. <-QUOTE}

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/article2595059.ece

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> In case this hasn't been mentioned before, take a look at this page: http://www.iobit.com/pressroom.html and quickly google the text of any of the reviews :( <-QUOTE}
PrevxHelp, those reviews are real.
No need to search. At the icons on the left of the text are the direct links to those reviews.
Advanced system carefree is very good.
Iobit smartdefrag and Game Booster are excellent programs.
Especially game booster is simple fantastic!

Panagiotis

[EliteKiller]

{QUOTE-> PrevxHelp, those reviews are real.
No need to search. At the icons on the left of the text are the direct links to those reviews. <-QUOTE}
FWIW not all images link to an article.

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> if u wanna hear something REALLY shocking, IObit hosts a porn game sort of site on their server, here is a NON-clickable link for it so plz dont remove this, people need to see how despicable iobit really is for a security company...

and almost every link on that site sends u to the iobit main site and starts a download prompt... this is just terrible from a security company.

iobit.com/porn-game <-QUOTE}
Please.. lets take a break.
They simple used the search engines like google to display iobit at the first pages.

http://www.iobit.com/porn-games.html
http://www.iobit.com/naruto-hentai.html

A strange way to advertise but nothing malicious in those pages...

Panagiotis

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> Please.. lets take a break.
They simple used the search engines like google to display iobit at the first pages.

http://www.iobit.com/porn-games.html
http://www.iobit.com/naruto-hentai.html

A strange way to advertise but nothing malicious in those pages...

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}

its pretty disgusting way of advertising, idc what people think but i dont want a product that gets is business in ways like this, what known company does something like this? do u see any security company do underhanded stuff like this?

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> FWIW not all images link to an article. <-QUOTE}
Those you can search them like the cnet one
http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-9730262-12.html

Panagiotis

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> its pretty disgusting way of advertising, idc what people think but i dont want a product that gets is business in ways like this, what known company does something like this? do u see any security company do underhanded stuff like this? <-QUOTE}
Agree but... also I find it a bit funny. I can't imagine the face of those that search for porn and finish in those pages...;D ;D ;D

Panagiotis

[Keyboard_Commando]

Hmmm ok maybe they didn't fake The Times quote.

I am blaming Prevx help + Times search for that. :P

I am going to keep my mouth shut from now on :gack:

[arran]

-http://www.iobit.com/porn-games.html
-http://www.iobit.com/naruto-hentai.html

were these links there before? or has site been hacked?

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> -http://www.iobit.com/porn-games.html
-http://www.iobit.com/naruto-hentai.html

were these links there before? or has site been hacked? <-QUOTE}
I don't think it is hacked.
Offline browser does miracles when scanning a site. ;)
http://www.metaproducts.com/mp/portable_offline_browser.htm

Panagiotis

[Inspector Clouseau]

The downloads link to their own is360 program. So what i think is that they use that for search engines that people end up on that page. And honestly, if they advertise like that then they aren't better than any rogue software. Only difference is that they don't spam small downloaders that installs their software. But as a company (if it's even a real company...) they seriously spoiled their "name". Especially in the computer security business it's also about trust. I wouldn't buy any security software from a company that i don't trust. And trust is something what needs to get earned and cannot be advertised as other companies do.

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> The downloads link to their own is360 program. So what i think is that they use that for search engines that people end up on that page. And honestly, if they advertise like that then they aren't better than any rogue software. Only difference is that they don't spam small downloaders that installs their software. But as a company (if it's even a real company...) they seriously spoiled their "name". Especially in the computer security business it's also about trust. I wouldn't buy any security software from a company that i don't trust. And trust is something what needs to get earned and cannot be advertised as other companies do. <-QUOTE}

exactly, its great hearing that from someone in the industry. with these new discoveries, this company is beyond gone, thers no way they will be able to fully recover and gain the trust and respect of users back...

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> exactly, its great hearing that from someone in the industry. with these new discoveries, this company is beyond gone, thers no way they will be able to fully recover and gain the trust and respect of users back... <-QUOTE}

Didn't they also have a toolbar that you could opt out of but would install anyway? Then didn't users have trouble getting rid of it?

[ePost]

This is serious now. IOBit are letting their forum staff down. Now the forum staff are ready to jump ship. Read from the top down and also the next page: http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?t=4802&page=15

Note the edit made by Solbjerg in the first post. Incredible!

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> Didn't they also have a toolbar that you could opt out of but would install anyway? Then didn't users have trouble getting rid of it? <-QUOTE}

well ive heard people having trouble removing it, but when i opted out nothing was installed for me so idk :-\

[Inspector Clouseau]

{QUOTE-> well ive heard people having trouble removing it, but when i opted out nothing was installed for me so idk :-\ <-QUOTE}

I don't even think the toolbar is the real issue here. It basically doesn't matter anymore.

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> I don't even think the toolbar is the real issue here. It basically doesn't matter anymore. <-QUOTE}

ye i agree, much larger issue here.

[pandlouk]

A quick question.
Is AVG affiliated with iobit? ???
-http://www.iobit.com/avg-com.html

Panagiotis

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> well ive heard people having trouble removing it, but when i opted out nothing was installed for me so idk :-\ <-QUOTE}

{QUOTE-> I don't even think the toolbar is the real issue here. It basically doesn't matter anymore. <-QUOTE}

Ok I never did get the facts, I was curious.

In regards to Iobit defenders: Boy they may be starting to get a little egg on their face if these revelations about Iobits' unethical practices keep getting exposed like they have lately.
The unconfirmed references about their product from other reputable sites, Mods deleting threads and then possibly turning on Iobit, the porn connection, the toolbar, and of course the database. This is better than a T.V. soap opera.;D

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> A quick question.
Is AVG affiliated with iobit? ???
-http://www.iobit.com/avg-com.html

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}

well all the download links (including the link that specifically says its for AVG starts a download for IObit 360... so this is even more dirt for them... someone may want to contact AVG about this and see if they can do something about it if they really arent associated...

[Inspector Clouseau]

Well to begin with as a serious security vendor you don't select similar sounding names for your products for existing solutions. Hint: Norton Security 360 - All in one protection.

For example there are lot's of rogues that name themselves like that
http://remove-malware.com/antimalware/rogue-anti-malware/antivirus-360-%E2%80%93-fake-antivirus-not-to-be-confused-with-norton-360/

The major problem now is that they let the (possible volunteers) forum mods let the battle fight. That is highly unprofessional and should have been resolved by the senior staff of that said "company". Not doing so leads to the question do they even have employees? If yes, who'd be responsible for it? Honestly i can't imagine that none of their employees (remember: if they would have some) wouldn't contact his boss. Because they would be worried about their job there. So there is this possibility that this "show" is run just by a bunch of "teenagers" or completely unqualified people in the management. Either option is highly dangerous.

[ePost]

This last one is too far out! What are these people doing?{QUOTE-> well all the download links (including the link that specifically says its for AVG starts a download for IObit 360... so this is even more dirt for them... someone may want to contact AVG about this and see if they can do something about it if they really arent associated... <-QUOTE}

[arran]

Seems the IObit owners know they can't get back their good reputation, and they know they now have nothing to loose by putting up all these new links. IObit will now just turn into a spam rouge type site. feel sorry for the forums staff tho IObit ceo is obivously not going to show up any time soon.

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> Well to begin with as a serious security vendor you don't select similar sounding names for your products for existing solutions. Hint: Norton Security 360 - All in one protection.

For example there are lot's of rogues that name themselves like that
http://remove-malware.com/antimalware/rogue-anti-malware/antivirus-360-%E2%80%93-fake-antivirus-not-to-be-confused-with-norton-360/

The major problem now is that they let the (possible volunteers) forum mods let the battle fight. That is highly unprofessional and should have been resolved by the senior staff of that said "company". Not doing so leads to the question do they even have employees? If yes, who'd be responsible for it? Honestly i can't imagine that none of their employees (remember: if they would have some) wouldn't contact his boss. Because they would be worried about their job there. So there is this possibility that this "show" is run just by a bunch of "teenagers" or completely unqualified people in the management. Either option is highly dangerous. <-QUOTE}

You make a good point. Perhaps with this exposure more facts will bear out pertaining to who exactly is running that operation over there. If this goes to court then we will find out, but that could be a ways off from now.

[Fuzzfas]

{QUOTE-> -http://www.iobit.com/porn-games.html
-http://www.iobit.com/naruto-hentai.html

<-QUOTE}

All i can say is ROFLMAO! ;D At first i thought i made some mistake and i REALLY ended up in some chinese porn site. :o

These guys are ubelievable! Using a sort of "porn phishing" in order to deliver security products. ROFL! Can you imagine this becoming a global trend in security vendors? LOLOLOLOL! What's next? Setting up crack sites and deliver Iobit Security through links for Keygens? Hey, maybe searching keygens for MBAM and as soon as you click the "get MBAM keygen" you end up with Iobit! How about that! ROFL! :argh: :argh: :thumb:

[the Tester]

This is all so bizarre!
Leaving the forum volunteers to attempt to answer for ownership's actions is basically giving up the way that I see it. Hiding from the fallout.

Stick a fork in IObit. I can't see that company getting out from under this fiasco.

[Inspector Clouseau]

{QUOTE-> You make a good point. <-QUOTE}

I only make good points. :P You should have noticed that already ;D

[arran]

Like I say before the owners of IObit have given up, they know there is no way they can get back their reputation, and they have nothing more to loose. So I guess the links are to gain more google traffic.

[firzen771]

iobit is completely done with all this new stuff found on them, none of their products will survive... and followup, has anyone contacted AVG yet about that site?

[ccomputertek]

{QUOTE-> iobit is completely done with all this new stuff found on them, none of their products will survive... and followup, has anyone contacted AVG yet about that site? <-QUOTE}

Duhhhh, don't you get it ? ! this will not affect them in any way, they will simply change the name of their company and product, happens all the time overseas.

And why ten pages of posts ? is this really any of our business ? how many posting here are or were actually IOBIT customers ? If you never were then you should just leave it alone, it's not your problem.If your a malwarebytes customer it doesn't affect you either, simply continue updating and using the program.How many more pages of this ? Go out with your friends bowling or go have a drink FFS, why sit here all night creating page after page of posts if it doesn't concerne you ?

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> Duhhhh, don't you get it ? ! this will not affect them in any way, they will simply change the name of their company and product, happens all the time overseas.

And why ten pages of posts ? is this really any of our business ? how many posting here are or were actually IOBIT customers ? If you never were then you should just leave it alone, it's not your problem.If your a malwarebytes customer it doesn't affect you either, simply continue updating and using the program.How many more pages of this ? Go out with your friends bowling or go have a drink FFS, why sit here all night creating page after page of posts if it doesn't concerne you ? <-QUOTE}

This is a security forum, what do you expect? You don't have to read it if you don't want to. Why don't you go bowling and quit worrying it?;D

[ccomputertek]

{QUOTE-> This is a security forum, what do you expect? You don't have to read it if you don't want to. Why don't you go bowling and quit worrying it?;D <-QUOTE}

Ok that'll be enough Johnnycash / JohnnyWadOfMoney :P

[JohnnyDollar]

{QUOTE-> Ok that'll be enough Johnnycash / JohnnyWadOfMoney :P <-QUOTE}

This topic has been thoroughly discussed that is for sure. I have to admit that I have been captivated with this whole issue. It has been very interesting and entertaining. :argh:

[ccomputertek]

8 pages ago it was still interesting, not since then, time to talk about something else now or possibly go play some pool with the girlfriend LOLOL.You do realize that every post increases the size of wilders unnecessasarily ( spelling ) no need to make wilders go from 100megs to 150 megs over this.Let their attorneys handle it from here, and never buy a program from china and you'll be just fine. NOW STOP ! ! ! ! ! ! lol :wacko:

Thread closed

[arran]

{QUOTE-> 8 pages ago it was still interesting, not since then, time to talk about something else now or possibly go play some pool with the girlfriend LOLOL.You do realize that every post increases the size of wilders unnecessasarily ( spelling ) no need to make wilders go from 100megs to 150 megs over this.Let their attorneys handle it from here, and never buy a program from china and you'll be just fine. NOW STOP ! ! ! ! ! ! lol :wacko:

Thread closed <-QUOTE}

Then why are you still posting in here?

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> 8 pages ago it was still interesting, not since then, time to talk about something else now or possibly go play some pool with the girlfriend LOLOL.You do realize that every post increases the size of wilders unnecessasarily ( spelling ) no need to make wilders go from 100megs to 150 megs over this.Let their attorneys handle it from here, and never buy a program from china and you'll be just fine. NOW STOP ! ! ! ! ! ! lol :wacko: <-QUOTE}
You must be fast asleep. This thread just unvailed another theft! Look: {QUOTE-> A quick question.
Is AVG affiliated with iobit? ???
-http://www.iobit.com/avg-com.html

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}And: {QUOTE-> well all the download links (including the link that specifically says its for AVG starts a download for IObit 360... so this is even more dirt for them... someone may want to contact AVG about this and see if they can do something about it if they really arent associated... <-QUOTE}

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> iobit is completely done with all this new stuff found on them, none of their products will survive... and followup, has anyone contacted AVG yet about that site? <-QUOTE}
Thier forum has a short thread about it. http://forums.avg.com/eu-en/avg-free-forum?sec=thread&act=show&id=32025

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> Thier forum has a short thread about it. http://forums.avg.com/eu-en/avg-free-forum?sec=thread&act=show&id=32025 <-QUOTE}

that thread seems to think its fine but u dont put a link that says its for another product then just have a download for ur own product start no matter what its instructions wer...

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> Duhhhh, don't you get it ? ! this will not affect them in any way, they will simply change the name of their company and product, happens all the time overseas.

And why ten pages of posts ? is this really any of our business ? how many posting here are or were actually IOBIT customers ? If you never were then you should just leave it alone, it's not your problem.If your a malwarebytes customer it doesn't affect you either, simply continue updating and using the program.How many more pages of this ? Go out with your friends bowling or go have a drink FFS, why sit here all night creating page after page of posts if it doesn't concerne you ? <-QUOTE}

what the hell do u think these forums are? get out of the forums if those are ur thoughts, the point of this SECURITY forum is to discuss issues in that world, and thats what wer are doing, if u dont like it, then this is not the forum for u... ::)

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> that thread seems to think its fine but u dont put a link that says its for another product then just have a download for ur own product start no matter what its instructions wer... <-QUOTE}
No, I read that AVG thread as something inquisitorial with a negative tone in it. With people asking what is this?

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> No, I read that AVG thread as something inquisitorial with a negative tone in it. With people asking what is this? <-QUOTE}

i meant the last post by "rdsok" more

[firzen771]

here's something interesting, for all of u that remember the infamous Max Zorin who got flamed off these forums for his continuous unjustified MBAM bashing and being a part of SSupdater has since changed his way of thinking and has now posted on the IObit forums DEFENDING mbam!!! ;D

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> i meant the last post by "rdsok" more <-QUOTE}
You're right. That thread is a dead end. They don't get it.

[acr1965]

No the thread should not stop. Hell it's just now getting good.


Odd thing though is that I don't remember MBAM spewing near as much hot water over Symantec online help using MBAM without permission. I realize there is certainly a difference between going up against IObit vs. Symantec. But still...

...at this point I am sure the lawyers are telling MBAM to stop posting about this whole mess for now but it's probably too much of a publicity windfall to not take advantage of the free advertising...

MBAM has a right to be ticked but they will squeeze every bit of free advertising out of this IObit news they can...

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> No the thread should not stop. Hell it's just now getting good.


Odd thing though is that I don't remember MBAM spewing near as much hot water over Symantec online help using MBAM without permission. I realize there is certainly a difference between going up against IObit vs. Symantec. But still...

...at this point I am sure the lawyers are telling MBAM to stop posting about this whole mess for now but it's probably too much of a publicity windfall to not take advantage of the free advertising...

MBAM has a right to be ticked but they will squeeze every bit of free advertising out of this IObit news they can... <-QUOTE}

as they rightfully shuld IMO.

[JohnnyDollar]

From an AVG free volunteer mod:

http://forums.avg.com/eu-en/avg-free-forum?sec=thread&act=show&id=32025

{QUOTE-> I don't work for AVG Technologies... I'm just a volunteer here so I can't answer if there is an agreement between ioBit and AVG or not.... but it does look as if there is one if you actually take the time to read the complete page...

-- You must download and install Advanced WindowsCare to get the free licensed AVG security products.
-- If you have downloaded and used the trial version of AVG products (free version is OK), then the license can not work on your computer. Sorry. We highly suggest you buying a discounted license from this page.



I can see where a misunderstanding could be made.. but it appears clear if everything is actually read first. <-QUOTE}

[Inspector Clouseau]

something interesting about the background (who is their ceo who are the developers) of iobit:

http://www.security-depot-online.com/iobit_challenges_microsoft_s_onecare_service_with_technically_savvy_and_alternative_bfch.jspx

[dcrowe0050]

Every link on this page prompts a download for Iobit Security 360 even the ones for Advanced System Care. Wow
http://www.iobit.com/avg-com.html

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> Odd thing though is that I don't remember MBAM spewing near as much hot water over Symantec online help using MBAM without permission. <-QUOTE}
Symantec did not sell MBAM. They did not steal the program. A few supporters used it in some online sessions.

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> Symantec did not sell MBAM. They did not steal the program. A few supporters used it in some online sessions. <-QUOTE}

it was still an issue cuz im pretty sure the support service was paid for.

[ePost]

Yes. Only this is far more serious.

[acr1965]

Seriousness is relative.

[JohnnyDollar]

Look at this comment left by one of the WOT users. Is this being clueless or what?

{QUOTE->
Do you guys even realize how many other security companies borrow engine. For example; check out lavasoft's antivirus helix, its identical to avira antivir. Also, have any of you even tried the software and have just come to bash iobit? <-QUOTE}


http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/iobit.com/comment-3109875#comment-3109875

[acr1965]

{QUOTE-> as they rightfully shuld IMO. <-QUOTE}

Not in disagreement with your statement. Just kinda odd MBAM did not play out the Symantec situation more than they did. Yet they are all over a company that makes a product most people have never heard about.

[ePost]

{QUOTE-> Look at this comment left by one of the WOT users. Is this being clueless or what?
http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/iobit.com/comment-3109875#comment-3109875 <-QUOTE}
What is helix? That WOT comment does not make sense...

[dcrowe0050]

{QUOTE-> Look at this comment left by one of the WOT users. Is this being clueless or what? <-QUOTE}


One of those diehard fans of Iobit that think they have all the answers. Their are several such on Iobits forums

[firzen771]

{QUOTE-> Not in disagreement with your statement. Just kinda odd MBAM did not play out the Symantec situation more than they did. Yet they are all over a company that makes a product most people have never heard about. <-QUOTE}

cuz i guess MBAM realized how large Symantec is and how little they culd probly do to it :-\

[dcrowe0050]

{QUOTE-> cuz i guess MBAM realized how large Symantec is and how little they culd probly do to it :-\ <-QUOTE}

Either that or they got paid enough not to worry bout it lol