Do I need imaging?

[mike21]

Hello,

After used almost every AV & FW on the market, my current security setup now is:

- Malware Defender latest
- Sandboxie registered
- FD-ISR

As you see I do not use AV anymore.

My question is do I need an imaging program like Acronis or ShadowProtect?

I have plenty of space in my D:\ drive to create an image.
I feel that my windows installation is protected by FD-ISR, as I have an archived snapshot saved elsewhere that can be restored at anytime.

Actually if I use imaging that will be only for "My Documents" folder, containing word & excel files for my job, pictures, audio and video files.

[mike21]

You think I do not need imaging?

[mike21]

To clarify I do not want something like shadowuser or returnil.

What do I need in terms of backup-imaging, as an addition to FD-ISR for office-video-audio files.

[nomarjr3]

I have to agree with ssj100.

After prolonged extensive use, harddisk drives wear down and tend to malfunction.

The best way of backing up your important documents and cherished pictures/videos is by copying them to an external hard-drive.

FD-ISR is sufficient. But you can opt for a system virtualization programs like Deep Freeze to maximize system protection.

[mike21]

thanks ssj100 & nomarjr3

[Osaban]

A good imaging program is the most important application to have IMO. Not only for sudden HD death, but also any ISR application can fail due to conflicts or any other reasons. Lately some of these imaging programs are free, so why not take the opportunity to try them.

[mike21]

What do you mean by conflicts of ISR?

I use it for more than 3 years and never experienced any conflict.

[lodore]

can you restore your OS partition using the archived snapshot of ISR to a blank hard drive?
if so you dont really need imaging software.
you could use something like karen;s replicator to sync your data to an external hard drive.

[mike21]

-{ Quote: "can you restore your OS partition using the archived snapshot of ISR to a blank hard drive?
" }-
Hi lodore, I don't know, but I guess no, I have never tried. I suppose that the drive must have at least a basic windows installation and FD-ISR instaled, in order that I restore the archive. This is not a big problem for me, as I bought a new and very fast PC and a basic XP installation doesn't take more than 40 mins.

[HAN]

My feeling is that an image gives a user the ability to have a complete and absolute method of recovery in the shortest amount of time. ISR software can also perform much/most of the same functions but not 100%.

In my case, I never bothered with an ISR app. And System Restore is turned off. I just create an image a few times a month and operate knowing that I can have a full recovery anytime I need it, no matter what conditions may occur...

[Longboard]

-{ Quote: "I suppose that the drive must have at least a basic windows installation and FD-ISR instaled, in order that I restore the archive." }-
You got it. ;)
FDISR, that prince of utilities will restore from external Archive. :)
-{ Quote: "What do you mean by conflicts of ISR?
I use it for more than 3 years and never experienced any conflict." }-
You are not alone. ;)
Unfortunately there are reports of FDISR not being able to boot back to some snapshots sometimes:eg:
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=238554
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=184009
Ergo, might need some other tools jic, prolly a mistake to rely on any single utility.
( unfortunately FDISR never came with a boot rescue disc and I dont recall anyone ever making FDISR compatible with any of the popular boot discs)
FDISR is an essential tool for me for boot to different system set-ups and testing, one of the best utilities ever imo, but: Not the rock bottom restore tool :-
-{ Quote: "A good imaging program is the most important application to have IMO. Not only for sudden HD death, but also any ISR application can fail due to conflicts or any other reasons. Lately some of these imaging programs are free, so why not take the opportunity to try them." }-Great succinct comment.
Encapsulates exactly why Imaging is an essential tool.

File syncing to external drive is another useful mid-level strategy
Back-ups of "digital memories" has been discussed elsewhere.
When you get into ISR/backing up/saving/syncing/imaging, there can be ermm; some redundancies at first glance, depends a lot on what you actually want/need, and redundacy should actually be built in. ;)

Have a cruise through the FDISR forum for imaging threads, lots of really good threads there and here re imaging, syncing options and strategies.

:) You haven't really lived till that primary HD just goes pfftt, :argh: and all those back up strategies have just not quite been put in place yet. :o

Any number of users will be able to testify how HW has crapped out without warning or some SW has somehow borked their system with all those new 1's&0's

As you say, a fresh install can often be the go..but what about those photos, videos etc.?? What about all the carefully crafted snapshots in FDISR ??

Get an imaging tool. 8)

[lodore]

You may as well get an imaging tool.
I recommend image for windows,paragon or shadow protect desktop.

[TheKid7]

I use Image for Windows for imaging my System Partition. I make a monthly Full Image to both another internal hard drive and bootable DVD's and I make a weekly Differential Image to the same internal hard drive as the Full Image. I use Syncback Free to backup any important files to a RAID1 Server.

[Shankle]

Clonezilla-live is FREEEE and works for me. I backed up to my external Sata HD and restored from it with no problems. The restore took less than 1/2 hour.
It has to be run from a Live CD.

[mike21]

Thanks everyone for replies.

Money to buy soft is not a problem as this is my work's PC and the company pays for it, especially for security-backup purposes.

My new PC is a Quad 9550, with 4 GB DDR3 ram and:
- 1 HDD 1 TB SATA II @ 32MB (data, docs etc)
- 1 HDD 150 GB VelociRaptor (for operating system, which is WINXP)

Both HDDs are around 30% full, so I have plenty empty space.

Sorry, I should have post this at the 1st post.

Provided that I feel safe about the VelociRaptor with the OS (FD-ISR or if fails a quick format), now I am left to protect the drive with the data.

If I understand correct, to recapitulate, I need to buy a similar size external HDD, which will be used as a data backup (and OS maybe depending on the program). If I need only data backup I don't really need imaging, only a good sync program to always have my data sync-ed and thats it.

Another thing is that it is not recommended to partition the 1TB HDD and to use the partition as backup, because I have the risk of hardware failure, but not the risk of losing the data from the backup partition due to a virus attack.

Please confirm this, thanks

[pandlouk]

You can partition the disk but is never wise to backup on the same disk.
You can also to backup on an internal disk.
If the data is really important maybe you should consider buying a second 1tb drive and configure them as RAID-1 instead of using a sync program.

Panagiotis

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "You can partition the disk but is never wise to backup on the same disk.
You can also to backup on an internal disk.
If the data is really important maybe you should consider buying a second 1tb drive and configure them as RAID-1 instead of using a sync program.

Panagiotis" }-
i wouldnt reccomend anyone to use the crappy motherboard raid.
i think a sync program would be better tbh.
karen's replicator has never failed me.

[andyman35]

I use Macrium Reflect Free to create a backup image that takes a few minutes every couple of days,I can see no good reason to cease doing so.

[mike21]

ok, one last question: the data on the HDD is consisting of files:

zip
rar
doc
xls
txt
ahk
mpg
mp3
etc

are these files under risk if I don't use AV?

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "I would have thought FD-ISR is sufficient, so in my opinion, you do not need anything else.

Another good back-up program is EAZ-FIX: http://www.eazsolution.com/

Unfortunately, back-up imaging does not help if your hard-drive suddenly dies horribly. That's why I recommended backing things up on to another hard-drive externally. I feel that is the best way of backing up important files." }-

You are confusing him. EAZ-FIX on the same drive doesn't not do imaging, it's another ISR program, and it's tricky with FDISR.

Imaging as he is asking would be using Acronis or shadowprotect to backup/image the whole drive in case of disaster.

Yes, he could do it with FDISR, assuming he has a windows install disk and a copy of the FDISR installed tucked away, but an image restore is definitely faster.

Pete

[andyman35]

Can you define "under risk"?

[pandlouk]

-{ Quote: "i wouldnt reccomend anyone to use the crappy motherboard raid.
i think a sync program would be better tbh.
karen's replicator has never failed me." }-
Hi Lodore,
You must be joking. Intel matrix raid(software raid) and jmicron(hardware raid) are far from crappy. Maybe you never really tested them (and I do not mean with ubuntu).
Raid-1 is far superior from sync apps, but anyway everyone has it's own preferences.

Panagiotis

[mike21]

-{ Quote: "Can you define "under risk"?" }-

A new virus passes sandbox and Malware defender. Can it destroy my files?

[pandlouk]

-{ Quote: "ok, one last question: the data on the HDD is consisting of files:

zip
rar
doc
xls
txt
ahk
mpg
mp3
etc

are these files under risk if I don't use AV?" }-
Doc, xls, txt, jpeg and mp3 are under risk. Some malware modify,encrypt or delete them.
If you do not use an AV, always backthem up on external drives.

Panagiotis

[mike21]

eyxaristo Panagioti

[raakii]

-{ Quote: "Hello,

After used almost every AV & FW on the market, my current security setup now is:

- Malware Defender latest
- Sandboxie registered
- FD-ISR

As you see I do not use AV anymore.

My question is do I need an imaging program like Acronis or ShadowProtect?

" }-
U need it definitely.None of the softwares u use is more powerful than image program.Also antivirus helps u protect non system partition,while preventing unnecessary fd-isr update.

[HAN]

-{ Quote: "None of the softwares u use is more powerful than image program" }-
I agree. My imaging programs are the most important programs I own, bar none...

[SourMilk]

Don't really know if you do (OP). I certainly do. An offline clean image is important to me not just because of malware but hard drive failure. Programs such as Acronis True Image are able to mount an image as a virtual disk allowing you to copy data such as pictures, documents, etc. on completely different hardware even though the OS drivers are incompatible and the image used cannot be restored on a different type of motherboard. There are also some imaging programs that can install on dissimilar types of hardware by bypassing the drivers.

Important? for me yes.

SourMilk out

[mike21]

-{ Quote: ".Also antivirus helps u protect non system partition,while preventing unnecessary fd-isr update." }-

raakii, thx for advices, but I don't believe there is a malware that forces FD-ISR to perform an unwanted update. This program is so unpopular :'( that I doubt any hacker or virus "developer" takes it into consideration.

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "A new virus passes sandbox and Malware defender. Can it destroy my files?" }-

Passing MD, yes. But if you run it Sandboxed you are pretty safe. I tested against one of those encrypting malwares, and all the encrypted files were neatly stashed in the sandbox, waiting the delete.

Pete

[bgoodman4]

-{ Quote: "You can partition the disk but is never wise to backup on the same disk.
You can also to backup on an internal disk.
If the data is really important maybe you should consider buying a second 1tb drive and configure them as RAID-1 instead of using a sync program.

Panagiotis" }-

If the data is REALLY IMPORTANT you should backup to an off-site location. Fire or theft makes your data disappear as surly as the HD dying.

I use iDrive for this and its very reliable in my experience. I also agree that 2 imaging programs are a good idea especially since there are a good number of free programs available. I have had images go bad (and sometimes the imaging program can go bad and require a reinstall - finding out your restore/imaging program is corrupt when you are trying to do a restore is no fun at all).

[raakii]

-{ Quote: "raakii, thx for advices, but I don't believe there is a malware that forces FD-ISR to perform an unwanted update. This program is so unpopular :'( that I doubt any hacker or virus "developer" takes it into consideration." }-
I refer to fdisr snapshot updates (to recover the os back )not the program.

[Retadpuss]

In my opinion, having a good backup and backup policy is very important as no security is perfect.

I use the standard Windows 7 (Vista has one as well) complete system backup - on to an external drive.

If you dot use Vista (Ultimate I think has it) or Win 7, give Acronis a go.

I use the standard Win 7 file backup to crate daily, scheduled backups of my docs etc.

I did use NTI Shadow - which crates a backup of every file when changed - you select the folders it monitors and it will always backup these files, in realtime to your chosen destination. It can be set to keep a number of generations of backups as well - all very good!

I believe NTI shadow comes free with many Freecom external drives.

[lodore]

vista business and vista ultimate both have full system backup (imaging) bultin.
If you dont have those versions and you dont mind burning your own media and using commandline you can use the execellent commandline tool called imagex (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc722145.aspx)
its includeed with WAIK (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=C7D4BC6D-15F3-4284-9123-679830D629F2&displaylang=en)

I didnt know about this before i purchased image for windows so i dont have a use for it. But i have used imagex at college to image and restore before doing some tests.

[mike21]

I understand what you writing, but I don't understand why do I need an imaging, if, provided that I buy an external HDD, I can do all above simply by sync, without any imaging involved

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "I understand what you writing, but I don't understand why do I need an imaging, if, provided that I buy an external HDD, I can do all above simply by sync, without any imaging involved" }-

That will work fine for data. It will also work fine if your hard drive fails, or gets otherwise trashed, and you have time, to reinstall Windows, reinstall your software, do it all the same, and then you can sync back your data. But if time is critical, and image can be restored, to a trashed disk, or new disk in a few minutes. Time is the issue.

Pete

[HAN]

Well said Pete. :) I know when I've had bad drive issues to deal with, time was at a premium. I didn't have a few hours to throw at stuff (not really even a few minutes...)

[Fly]

Imaging is also important to remain malware free.

If I know or suspect that my computer has been infected by something more malicious than, for example, a cookie, I tend to restore a known clean image.
Just to be on the safe side !

Another advantage of an imaging setup is that you are able to prevent a corrupted OS. Corruption of the OS will occur over time, especially if you use certain security software. You'd have to handle your data, but other than that, just restore a clean image (and update!) and you're done.

[mike21]

Well thanks a lot for all your suggestions.

May I ask then to suggest me a program to "image" to another HD my C:\ and D:\ drives. But I need a program to exclude some huge folders from drive D:\ and all snapshots but current of FD-ISR at drive C:\
Funds is not problem, as it is the company's PC.

Also do you recommend better an external HD or internal HD to host the images?

@Fly: I use FD-ISR as a corrupted OS recovery, if I understand you.

Thanks in advance for being with me, Mike :)

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "Well thanks a lot for all your suggestions.

May I ask then to suggest me a program to "image" to another HD my C:\ and D:\ drives. But I need a program to exclude some huge folders from drive D:\ and all snapshots but current of FD-ISR at drive C:\
Funds is not problem, as it is the company's PC.

Also do you recommend better an external HD or internal HD to host the images?

@Fly: I use FD-ISR as a corrupted OS recovery, if I understand you.

Thanks in advance for being with me, Mike :)" }-

I don't know as any of the "imaging" programs allow you to exclude folders. They take the whole partition. As to a good imaging program, my choice would be ShadowProtect.

Pete

[pandlouk]

-{ Quote: "eyxaristo Panagioti" }-
Parakalo Mike :)
-{ Quote: "May I ask then to suggest me a program to "image" to another HD my C:\ and D:\ drives. But I need a program to exclude some huge folders from drive D:\ and all snapshots but current of FD-ISR at drive C:\
Funds is not problem, as it is the company's PC.

Also do you recommend better an external HD or internal HD to host the images?

@Fly: I use FD-ISR as a corrupted OS recovery, if I understand you.

Thanks in advance for being with me, Mike :)" }-
Macrium Reflect, Paragon Backup, Norton Ghost, Symantec Backup Exec and Acronis can create file level backups; only the directories you want.

Drive Snapshot is propably the only imaging program that can exclude files/directories while imaging the whole partition.

Panagiotis

[lodore]

Im sure paragon and image for windows can exclude folders during full imaging. I would think shadow protect desktop can to.

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "Im sure paragon and image for windows can exclude folders during full imaging. I would think shadow protect desktop can to." }-

Nope, Shadowprotect can't exclude folders as far as I can see. It actually makes no sense at all to do this. Okay, you take an image and exclude folders. Then when you restore you know have a system without these folders.

I have a file backup system I also use, and there I pick and chose folders and actually files, I want backed up. But I image, in case the disk goes south, or gets so corrupted it's got to be formatted. That's when image restore is critical, and would you really want your image not to have everything?

Pete

[pandlouk]

-{ Quote: "Im sure paragon and image for windows can exclude folders during full imaging. I would think shadow protect desktop can to." }-
Neither IFW nor Paragon can exclude files during full imaging. (only 'PAGEFILE.SYS' and 'HIBERFIL.SYS' are excluded but those are excluded from all the imaging apps)

The only program that achieves it is Drive snapshot.
During the imaging the exluded files get replaced by dummie files (have the exact same name but contain all zero's). After the restore the user must execute the batch 'SnapshotDeleteAfterRestore.BAT' that is also restored at the root directory for eliminating those dummies.

Panagiotis

edit: I correct myself. Paragon (9 and later) and Acronis also have this ability.

[mike21]

-{ Quote: "Imaging is also important to remain malware free.

If I know or suspect that my computer has been infected by something more malicious than, for example, a cookie, I tend to restore a known clean image.
Just to be on the safe side !

Another advantage of an imaging setup is that you are able to prevent a corrupted OS. Corruption of the OS will occur over time, especially if you use certain security software. You'd have to handle your data, but other than that, just restore a clean image (and update!) and you're done." }-

Sorry for late reply, but as I was re-reading this thread I have to say that FD-ISR can do exactly these functions with ease, in fact this is what its made for.

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "Sorry for late reply, but as I was re-reading this thread I have to say that FD-ISR can do exactly these functions with ease, in fact this is what its made for." }-

For most things yes. But if something screws up the partition table or the disk fails, while yes you can still recover with FDISR(assuming you use archives), it will take you a significant amount of time, instead of a few minutes.

Pete