Top 7 Reasons People Quit Linux

[tgell]

Article (http://tech.yahoo.com/news/pcworld/20090501/tc_pcworld/top7reasonspeoplequitlinux)

[steve161]

I'd say no. 1 is the reason people do not try linux in the first place. I've also heard a few horror stories about hardware support but I have to laugh when that is mentioned because, at least on this computer made for windows. I would regularly lose my sound with xp, whereas I have had zero hardware issues with my distros (honestly, zero).
Oh, and the command line. I've copied and pasted a few commands with Ubuntu and have not yet opened a terminal with PCLinuxOS. But it's cool that people assume I'm a power user. I'm running with it.

[wj32]

It's funny how every time I install Ubuntu on a machine all the hardware just works, while Windows with its supposed better support for more hardware requires me to find the OEM drivers CD. It's just absurd.

[Arup]

Windows took a different path for hardware, most drivers in Linux are built into the kernel whereas drivers for Windows needs to be procured from the manufacturer and installed, both have their advantages. The Lin model makes it easy for first time users, the Win model lets you add support for hardware faster and sometimes you get better performance due to the hardware incorporating cutting edge stuff. Of course that can also lead to quite a lot of instabilities. Years back installing Creative drivers for my Win PC taught me a huge lesson. In Linux you can update drivers via the manufacturers as well, both nvidia and ATI make drivers for Linux. The kernel mode drivers also mean that they are tested thoroughly before being put there so no chance of instability.

Number one reason people quit Linux is impatience. I should know, I run a NGO where one of our jobs is to implement Linux for those who come from lower income groups or senior citizens. Most quit either because Linux has no games, this goes for the youngsters, others quit because for years, MS has dumbed them down to zombies who think that unless they see and hear MS logo and music while booting, it ain't worth it.

[Eice]

For me, it was the hardware issues; no USB automount on boot, no sound on speakers (even though headphones worked fine), and an inability to play videos without crashing the GNOME display manager if I wanted 3D acceleration for my video card.

There were minor compromises here and there as well: Microsoft Office 2007 > OpenOffice, no Google Chrome and IE8, I couldn't get the correct Japanese fonts to show, the stepped release upgrade model, etc. But those were less dealbreaking.

[Mrkvonic]

Take into consideration that those that try Linux are considered super geeks by most Windows standard. Half the people I know have a hard time turning their pcs on the first go.

People who move over to Linux are usually experienced Windows users, with attitude and preconception how things ought to be, and then you yank the little mat of confidence beneath their legs and they're left confused and angry in a new world of software they're not familiar with.

Pretty much like taking Linux geeks and throwing them into Solaris or BSD water. They start bitching within minutes. I know I have.

It's about what you know vs. what you think you know.

Mrk

[incursari]

What Mark says is true. I started using Windows from version 3.1 until Vista. During that period whenever I switch to Linux, i don't feel any problem at all. If things don't work, Google is my friend and I able to troubleshoot the problem. What I believed, if you have a learning mindset, you will not whine about things not working.

[Mrkvonic]

Who is Mark? :)
Mrk

[wj32]

Even though I said that Ubuntu has better OOB support for older hardware, I think that most users find GNU/Linux just a tiny bit harder to use than Windows and then switch back to Windows simply because of the extra effort required. Most users just want to get work done, and for simple tasks they don't see any difference between Windows and GNU/Linux.

[incursari]

-{ Quote: "Who is Mark? :)
Mrk" }-

ooh my typo :argh:

[lewmur]

The number one reason people quit using Linux is because they are too dumb to install and setup an OS on their own.;D

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "The number one reason people quit using Linux is because they are too dumb to install and setup an OS on their own.;D" }-


;D ;D ;D ;D

Actually dumbed down, I notice if you catch them young as I am doing, then its a non issue.

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "Even though I said that Ubuntu has better OOB support for older hardware, I think that most users find GNU/Linux just a tiny bit harder to use than Windows and then switch back to Windows simply because of the extra effort required. Most users just want to get work done, and for simple tasks they don't see any difference between Windows and GNU/Linux." }-


Actually for first timers I never recommend Ubuntu due to their strict FOSS policies of non free stuff. PCLOS, Super Ubuntu and for Eye Candy lovers good old Sabayon. Then they don't have to tinker finding codecs, flash, java etc.

[lewmur]

-{ Quote: ";D ;D ;D ;D

Actually dumbed down, I notice if you catch them young as I am doing, then its a non issue." }-
Actually, I'm also having good results with my elderly contemporaries, so long as I install and set it up for them.

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "Actually, I'm also having good results with my elderly contemporaries, so long as I install and set it up for them." }-


Same here, actually in my neighborhood the seniors thank me for liberating them from the world of Windows, they are quite happy, I loaded Xubuntu for all of them, no effects, just plain simple Linux that works day in day out.

[FastGame]

I don't know if Linux users quit, its those trying out Linux that do. IMO they quit Linux because they never really had a reason to quit M$ Windows.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "I don't know if Linux users quit, its those trying out Linux that do." }-
Not sure if I count, but I've used Intrepid for ~5 months before Jaunty pushed me back towards Vista.

Though, as many have pointed out, the Linux world isn't limited to Ubuntu. I'm waiting for Fedora 11 to see if it's more useable than Jaunty.

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "Not sure if I count, but I've used Intrepid for ~5 months before Jaunty pushed me back towards Vista.

Though, as many have pointed out, the Linux world isn't limited to Ubuntu. I'm waiting for Fedora 11 to see if it's more useable than Jaunty." }-


If Januty pushed you back, Fedora will not do any better, its more hardcore, I have installed Ubuntu and Fedora on range of PCs form old to new and all run fine without any issues so if you already feel that Vista serves your needs, I would suggest you wait for Windows 7 which is what Vista should have been initially. Linux is not for you.

[Kerodo]

-{ Quote: "Not sure if I count, but I've used Intrepid for ~5 months before Jaunty pushed me back towards Vista.

Though, as many have pointed out, the Linux world isn't limited to Ubuntu. I'm waiting for Fedora 11 to see if it's more useable than Jaunty." }-
Yeah, I agree with Arup, Fedora will be no easier than Jaunty, and most likely will need more manual tweaking if anything. It really doesn't get much easier than Ubuntu, or perhaps PCLOS x32, even Sabayon is pretty nice nowadays. My experience with Fedora tells me it's a bit more demanding than some of the others.. SuSE is not bad either, another one of my favorites, but again, not as easy out of the box as Ubuntu, PCLOS or Sabayon. Sabayon probably has the closest to Win look of them all, lots of eye candy.

[lodore]

For now i am not using fedora because wireless broke in the last network ,manager update. it didnt work all the time with the older version.
had the same problem with ubuntu 8.10. wireless works fine on vista with wpa2. im hoping network manager will work properly with wireless and wpa2 soon. network manager works fine with wired but is useless with wireless.

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "For now i am not using fedora because wireless broke in the last network ,manager update. it didnt work all the time with the older version.
had the same problem with ubuntu 8.10. wireless works fine on vista with wpa2. im hoping network manager will work properly with wireless and wpa2 soon. network manager works fine with wired but is useless with wireless." }-


Have you tried Jaunty, on my eeepc, wireless works anywhere I go around the world.

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "Have you tried Jaunty, on my eeepc, wireless works anywhere I go around the world." }-
I will try it as a live cd and find out when i have some free time.
the network manager in fedora 11 beta worked fine for the short amount of time i tryed it. i may upgrade to fedora 11 when it comes out and see how it goes.
In terms of kernel,network manager,KDE,Gnome etc versions to be the same for fedora and ubuntu.
i did try debian Lenny live but it doesnt include network manager.

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "I will try it as a live cd and find out when i have some free time.
the network manager in fedora 11 beta worked fine for the short amount of time i tryed it. i may upgrade to fedora 11 when it comes out and see how it goes.

i did try debian Lenny live but it doesnt include network manager." }-


You have quite a few choices, the new network manager works quite good in Jaunty and in case that don't work, there is the excellent wicd.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "If Januty pushed you back, Fedora will not do any better, its more hardcore" }-
Hardcore isn't the concern at this point, as long as it works. In Jaunty I spent almost 3 days trying to fix problems before being told that no matter what I did, the situation was basically beyond my control, and all I could do was to wait until some indeterminate future date for Ubuntu and/or third-party vendors to fix the problem.

I don't really care if Fedora makes me install more packages or type more lines at the Terminal or edit more config files to get things running. But that remains to be seen, I guess.

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "You have quite a few choices, the new network manager works quite good in Jaunty and in case that don't work, there is the excellent wicd." }-
what version of network manager does it use?

[FastGame]

-{ Quote: "Not sure if I count, but I've used Intrepid for ~5 months before Jaunty pushed me back towards Vista.

Though, as many have pointed out, the Linux world isn't limited to Ubuntu. I'm waiting for Fedora 11 to see if it's more useable than Jaunty." }-

I would count you as on the edge, between the two. I think you need to try other Distro's (or stay with Intrepid, maybe 8.04 LTS) and see if you can find the right fit. There's plenty of good people willing to help.

If you decide that Linux isn't for you (at this time), fine and dandy.

[Pedro]

-{ Quote: "what version of network manager does it use?" }-
Wicd is a network manager. Works for me.

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "what version of network manager does it use?" }-


7.0.100

[rice4lunch]

Definitely agree w/ #1 and 2.
No good text-to-speech software. And clipboard-watch feature doesn't work when text-aloud is running on wine. So I had to manually copy and paste, then click on the speak button. which gets annoying after awhile.

[Arup]

I haven't tried any text to speech but pidgin works good with the esound plugin and Stardict also works good with WyabdcRealPeopleTTS.

[Kerodo]

-{ Quote: "Wicd is a network manager. Works for me." }-
Yep, I have used it with success before also, when network manager wasn't working right. I can't remembe which distro, but I know wicd was good and solved my problem.

[chronomatic]

-{ Quote: "Definitely agree w/ #1 and 2.
No good text-to-speech software. And clipboard-watch feature doesn't work when text-aloud is running on wine. So I had to manually copy and paste, then click on the speak button. which gets annoying after awhile." }-


I use Festival for the speech engine and KTTS in KDE as a front-end. It works rather well and has a number of voices to choose from in various languages.

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "I use Festival for the speech engine and KTTS in KDE as a front-end. It works rather well and has a number of voices to choose from in various languages." }-


Same here and I see no difference between MS speech engines in terms of quality, you can also assign better voices to the engine by compiling them in if you need.

[rice4lunch]

I tried Festival a long time ago, it sounded really robotic compared to what I have from nextup's natural voice. Checked the site again today, and found one I can accept from the online demos. Will be trying it out... :-)

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "I tried Festival a long time ago, it sounded really robotic compared to what I have from nextup's natural voice. Checked the site again today, and found one I can accept from the online demos. Will be trying it out... :-)" }-


http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=751169


Check this, allows far more range of voices than any MS program.

[rice4lunch]

very detailed link. thanks. :)
Got any front end info?
In need of one that have features like textaloud?
-clipboard monitoring.
-current text highlight.
work on gnome if possible.
thanks.

[Mr2cents]

Top 7 Reasons People Quit Linux ? Go to the linux haters blog and read hundreds of reasons why people hate linux. Read some of the articles, and especially the comments. I don't hate linux. I use mepis and linux mint. Don't go to the blog if graphic/and or obscene language upsets you. :) Linux Haters (http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/)

[ahriman]

Mr2cents, thanks for the link to the blog. Lots of fun, and very funny. Bookmarked it.

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "very detailed link. thanks. :)
Got any front end info?
In need of one that have features like textaloud?
-clipboard monitoring.
-current text highlight.
work on gnome if possible.
thanks." }-


Cliboard monitoring is standard in Kubuntu, in Ubuntu just do sudo-apt-get install glipper

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "Top 7 Reasons People Quit Linux ? Go to the linux haters blog and read hundreds of reasons why people hate linux. Read some of the articles, and especially the comments. I don't hate linux. I use mepis and linux mint. Don't go to the blog if graphic/and or obscene language upsets you. :) Linux Haters (http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/)" }-

Really amusing, this guy has too much time on his hands, so much rabid hatred for a free alternative that works. In his world everything should be mono, choice is bad, alternative doesn't exist. Thinking about it is bad. Everything should look same and universal and that includes humans, they should think same as well, kinda like one world, one religion, one language, what a fallacy.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "Top 7 Reasons People Quit Linux ? Go to the linux haters blog and read hundreds of reasons why people hate linux. Read some of the articles, and especially the comments. I don't hate linux. I use mepis and linux mint. Don't go to the blog if graphic/and or obscene language upsets you. :) Linux Haters (http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/)" }-
lolwtf? I almost got kicked out of the computer suite for laughing so hard at this (http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html) entry. ;D

[Arup]

Of course for a OS which just markets itself by wrapping old stuff in new wrapper, this kind of envy is all but inevitable. ;)

[Gullible Jones]

I can give one good reason people quit Linux...

Hardware compatibility.

*glares at computer, which threw a kernel panic when I tried to suspend on Debian*

Really, though, if you ask me, I think Linux is a dead end. The future of the big server is DragonflyBSD; the future of the desktop is Windows 7. There's not really any room for Linux anywhere - it's not stable and secure enough for servers, and it doesn't have its act together on the desktop.

Of course, it works very well in some roles... Like Parted Magic, for instance, which I'm currently posting from.

[Arup]

Lets see, all hardware work here......including cutting edge, ancient but excellent high end Yamaha sound card works here on latest Ubuntu, ZC301 cam has no Vistax64 support so if you have a functional web cam, you have to throw it away. Windows 7 with the same crud registry, ancient NTFS is the future, yeah right.

As for the server remark...........LINUX based on UNIX is unstable.............muuuuuuuuhaaaaaaaaaaahaaahaaaa LOLOLOLOL! I would end it at that, looks like someone has come over from the I Hate LINUX blog to spread some real FUD.

[chronomatic]

-{ Quote: "I can give one good reason people quit Linux...

Hardware compatibility." }-

Linux supports more hardware than Windows does.

-{ Quote: "Really, though, if you ask me, I think Linux is a dead end. The future of the big server is DragonflyBSD; the future of the desktop is Windows 7. " }-

BSD is already huge in the server arena and has been for many, many years. You will get no argument from me that BSD is a great server OS. BSD can also be used on the desktop, but it is much more difficult to get working than Linux is (especially when it comes to multimedia stuff).

-{ Quote: "There's not really any room for Linux anywhere - it's not stable and secure enough for servers, and it doesn't have its act together on the desktop." }-

Not stable enough? Why is it that Linux servers can run for years without reboots? There are many documented cases of this. Why does Google run its servers on Linux?

Not secure enough? Granted I am not going to argue that most Linux distros are as secure as OpenBSD out of the box, but have you seen OpenBSD's default install? It's so bare bones that it is practically useless, even for servers.

And Linux can easily be made pretty damn secure (even for governments) by configuring some kernel options like SELinux, or by using kernel patches like PaX and grsecurity. Red Hat/Fedora has SELinux enabled by default, as well as various memory protections like ASLR, exec-shield, etc. That's about as secure as you're going to get for a non-microkernel OS that actually has functionality. I would put Linux with PaX and Grsecurity up against Trusted Solaris or Trusted BSD any day.

[Nick Rhodes]

-{ Quote: "I can give one good reason people quit Linux...

Hardware compatibility.

*glares at computer, which threw a kernel panic when I tried to suspend on Debian*" }-

Hardware support can be painful !

Just look at all the network cards that only work through NDIS wrapper.

I had a 5 port usb adaptor that would only run at usb1 speeds under Linux, even though it detected as a usb2 device (luckily I do not need this anymore).
My old home server had intel 830i chipset that did not have all its features supported, even on Ubuntu 8.04 just before the machine went to the grave, power saving did not work without fiddling (caused machine to freeze going into any kind of powersaving)
The onboard graphics card was broken (caused machine to freeze using 3d and sometimes restoring from suspend) due to configuration regression bug (intels own open source driver) and required manual configuration of Xorg.

-{ Quote: "
Really, though, if you ask me, I think Linux is a dead end. The future of the big server is DragonflyBSD; the future of the desktop is Windows 7. There's not really any room for Linux anywhere - it's not stable and secure enough for servers, and it doesn't have its act together on the desktop.
" }-

What information are you basing your statement that Linux is "not stable and secure enough for servers" ?

[lodore]

Linux haters blog is an execellent read LOL.
I have noticed flash does seem to have issues on linux but i have no idea who's fault it is.
java crashs alot to but then again the same version crashes alot on windows as well.

I also want some evidence to why Gullible Jones thinks linux isnt secure enough for servers and not reliable.

[Arup]

Java x64 is in Jaunty repo and it works flawlessly with FF and Opera. Also Alpha Flash10x64 from Adobe works fine here so far as long as your video drivers are up to date. I have no issues with full screen flash movies. Also if using nvidia cars its advised to use mplayer and gnome player with vdpau extension enabled, this puts all graphic load on the video card instead of software rendition and it runs HD movies with no tearing or jerking.

[GlobalForce]

"If I ask you ..." - GOTCHA! Casual opinion based on personal observation's fine by me. It's not like you're a self-proclaimed expert.

[raakii]

Less software base for linux when compared to windows is a major reason.

[Pedro]

-{ Quote: "Less software base for linux when compared to windows is a major reason." }-
Less commercial software, probably, but.. overall, probably not.
Give me an example.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "Less commercial software, probably, but.. overall, probably not." }-
But it's still something that potentially discourages people. Switching to Linux doesn't mean just changing the OS, it means changing the programs you use as well - IF there is a Linux equivalent. For some people who depend on their programs for work, this is a no-go.

[Arup]

There is more and more non commercial and yet viable alternates for people making an effort to look and try out, of course they are different but then no one said that Linux is WIN clone.

[raakii]

-{ Quote: "Less commercial software, probably, but.. overall, probably not.
Give me an example." }-
Any shadow defender for linux??

[lewmur]

-{ Quote: "But it's still something that potentially discourages people. Switching to Linux doesn't mean just changing the OS, it means changing the programs you use as well - IF there is a Linux equivalent. For some people who depend on their programs for work, this is a no-go." }-
The topic is why people quit Linux, not why they didn't try it in the first place. Someone who needs Windows only software for work, should know better than to try running it in Linux.

[lewmur]

-{ Quote: "Any shadow defender for linux??" }-
There is no need for it in Linux.

[Arup]

Linux doesn't need HIPS, so far no browser based malware has been know to affect linux distros running a user account.

[Mrkvonic]

-{ Quote: "Any shadow defender for linux??" }-

Your comparison is not based on the same scale. I could ask you for a million Linux utilities that do not exist in Windows - thinking of arping just quickly or netcat, not sure if it's been ported.

Things work difference, hence different applications.

By the way, for Linux you have TimeVault ... did you check it:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeVault

Wait for a tutorial, if you like ...

Then you have live CDs all over the place - the best shadow defender around, as you can do whatever you please and poof the changes are gone. For free. You have no live CD in Windows ... you have BartPE, but that's a specialized flavor. Whereas Linux comes in many names, flavors, tastes, architectures, desktop environments, all fully functional CDs, with everything on them.

Plus you can download applications and install in live CD, use media centers, use Compiz Fusion, etc. All in live session.

See the difference?

Cheers,
Mrk

[chronomatic]

Asking if Linux has "Shadow Defender" illustrates the ignorance many Windows users have. They assume Linux is like Windows and that Linux is a security disaster like Windows. They assume wrong.

HIPS is mainly a Windows thing. Many of the protections that these third party HIPS provide for Windows are included in Linux by default. The same goes for programs like Sandboxie. All Sandboxie is is a compensation for the poorly designed Windows security model. On a *nix machine, one doesn't need to sandbox Firefox because it is sandboxed from the root directories by default. Or, if you really wanted to sandbox something in Linux (like to where it couldn't even touch user accounts), you can chroot. This is not something you have to download or buy -- it is built right in.

As for Shadow Defender, it seems to be nothing other than a VM. One can easily run Linux in a VM. You can even use a USB stick to run Linux from and have the system "start fresh" each time it is booted.

[demonon]

Which programs refuse to run in WINE?
Those who need extra dll's?

[Beto]

People are electronic equipment "set-up" burnt-out. I think linux has less friends and neighbors who know how to help out the clueless.

Even a dvd/cable box connection has too many pages to figure out and people pay for a set up--up to $80. For some strange reason a free os does not merit a payout to get it fixed up and running.

I think this will change as microsoft becomes too troublesome to activate, especially over the phone. Native speakers are hard enough to understand over the limited frequency of the phone and non native speakers rambling off a 50 number sequence are a great encumbrance to getting activated --to many this will be the death knell for microsoft.

In my experience linux has not had any trouble with drivers at all and a internet connection is only 1 or 2 clicks of the mouse away.

Time will make believers out of linux haters in the long run.

[Arup]

When you boot into a Windows desktop, after the demise of MBM, there isn't a decent monitor out there which does its job without cluttering your desktop or taking up huge resources, GkrellM has no equivalent in Win world, its available for Win but for x32 only. It gives temp, system resource and more in a single compact Windows which stays out of your way. This is but just one simple but essential necessity which exists in Lin world but not in Win world. Even for a simple bandwidth monitor, one needs to pay in Win world but in Lin, Gkrellm handles that as well. These and many more facets make Lin a breeze to use on daily basis.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "Even for a simple bandwidth monitor, one needs to pay in Win world but in Lin, Gkrellm handles that as well." }-
That's odd, considering how I have everything I need (CPU/RAM/HDD usage, CPU temp, network ID/IP/encryption/signal strength, bandwidth, upload/download totals, system uptime) right on my Vista sidebar in two widgets, without having to install any software, much less pay for them.

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "That's odd, considering how I have everything I need (CPU/RAM/HDD usage, CPU temp, network ID/IP/encryption/signal strength, bandwidth, upload/download totals, system uptime) right on my Vista sidebar in two widgets, without having to install any software, much less pay for them." }-


But then you are assuming everyone is on Vista. How bout other flavors of WIN.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "But then you are assuming everyone is on Vista. How bout other flavors of WIN." }-
Even if you're using the 8-years-old WinXP, there's the Google Desktop sidebar (which I use as well), which I've configured to show all the things I mentioned, minus CPU temp - but that's because I didn't install the necessary software that XP needs to monitor that.

And while we're talking about XP, there's also this program I used years ago called Samurize (http://www.samurize.com/) (nope, you don't need to pay for it either ;)) that allows for all sorts of mind-boggling configs. Pretty similar to Conky, except that it comes with its own GUI config file editor. Another widget program is AveDesk (also free). And there's probably others out there as well.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "The topic is why people quit Linux, not why they didn't try it in the first place. Someone who needs Windows only software for work, should know better than to try running it in Linux." }-
For the rest of us, having to deal with an alien OS AND unproductive apps does eventually take its toll as well.

[Pedro]

-{ Quote: "But it's still something that potentially discourages people. Switching to Linux doesn't mean just changing the OS, it means changing the programs you use as well - IF there is a Linux equivalent. For some people who depend on their programs for work, this is a no-go." }-
You're making an argument, i'm just asking a question.

These days i prefer to talk about specific problems/examples, not generalizations, on Linux/Windows discussions at least.
I'm tired of endless discussions that lead nowhere, and i'm probably a bit more selfish. I want to read other opinions for myself (to learn what problems/solutions may exist) and whoever is on the same page as i am.

I think raaki's post was honest, so i asked for more feedback on his side.

Raakii, there are other solutions that accomplish the same basic functions, but not the same way, and perhaps not as "cute". Chroot, as chronomatic posted, is one such solution. There may be others, i never delved in that myself.
However, my intention was actually for something more oriented towards productivity/work, not Shadow Defender stuff. Think accounting, ERP, office, statistics, or ordinary stuff like music, video, browsing.

[tlu]

-{ Quote: "Which programs refuse to run in WINE?
Those who need extra dll's?" }-

http://appdb.winehq.org/

[lewmur]

-{ Quote: "For the rest of us, having to deal with an alien OS AND unproductive apps does eventually take its toll as well." }-
What? You think Linux is being written by little green men?:o The OS is neither alien nor unproductive to those who have spent a little effort to break the MS monopoly.

But to the sheep who are happy to be part of to be part of the flock, I say have at it. My only question is, why are you here complaining if you are so happy with MS? It would appear your only purpose here is to act as a tr0ll.

[Bob D]

-{ Quote: " Less software base for linux when compared to windows is a major reason." }-
-{ Quote: "Less commercial software, probably, but.. overall, probably not.
Give me an example." }-
Not to get OT here, but examples asked for...

>$5,000 here worth of:
Autodesk Revit Building
AutoCAD
PDF FormulaCAD (kazmierczak software)
Digital Canal (Structural Engrg Softwares)
StruCalc (Structural Design)
BeamChek (Structural Design)
REScheck (U.S. Department of Energy's Building Energy Codes Program)
COMcheck (U.S. Department of Energy's Building Energy Codes Program)
Delorme Street Atlas USA
SketchUp Pro
HCALC (Tahoe Design Software)
TJ-Beam (iLevel Weyerhaeuser struct. design)
And others...

I'm not mentioning all those other CD burning, Backup, Plot Spooler, Security, Download Mgr, etc. softs which may (or may not) have comparable Linux flavors.

Cheers

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "What? You think Linux is being written by little green men?:o The OS is neither alien nor unproductive to those who have spent a little effort to break the MS monopoly." }-
Sure. Glad you're happy with it.

-{ Quote: "But to the sheep who are happy to be part of to be part of the flock, I say have at it. My only question is, why are you here complaining if you are so happy with MS? It would appear your only purpose here is to act as a tr0ll." }-
It would appear your only purpose here, as always, is to act as a rabid attack dog cum f4nb0i. It's sad, really, that to you your OS of choice is so devoid of virtues that to defend it you need to resort to constant personal attacks against other people. Good boy, here's a treat, now go bark at someone else.

[Arup]

Everything you can do in Windows can be done in Linux, all you need to do is look, funny thing is I never see Mac owners complaining even though there are lots of stuff that Mac doesn't do that Win does.

Eice, with due respect, yours is an isolated case, for everyone who quits Lin due to a non functional hardware, there are many more who stick because either it works out of the box for them or they hand around and work out the solution.

[lewmur]

-{ Quote: "Sure. Glad you're happy with it.


It would appear your only purpose here, as always, is to act as a rabid attack dog cum f4nb0i. It's sad, really, that to you your OS of choice is so devoid of virtues that to defend it you need to resort to constant personal attacks against other people. Good boy, here's a treat, now go bark at someone else." }-
You call me a rabid attack dog when it's you here the the Linux forum preaching the virtues of Windoze and not me in the Windoze forum preaching the virtues of Linux. Why don't you go bark in the Windoze forum and stop tr0lling here.

[Arup]

There is myriads of burning apps, download managers like multi get and of course, since Lin is open source, if you have the skills, make one customized for your requirement, all Hollywood studios now use their own Linux stuff http://digitalcontentproducer.com/dcc/revfeat/video_linux_hollywood/

[chronomatic]

-{ Quote: "Not to get OT here, but examples asked for...

>$5,000 here worth of:
Autodesk Revit Building
AutoCAD
PDF FormulaCAD (kazmierczak software)
Digital Canal (Structural Engrg Softwares)
StruCalc (Structural Design)
BeamChek (Structural Design)
REScheck (U.S. Department of Energy's Building Energy Codes Program)
COMcheck (U.S. Department of Energy's Building Energy Codes Program)
Delorme Street Atlas USA
SketchUp Pro
HCALC (Tahoe Design Software)
TJ-Beam (iLevel Weyerhaeuser struct. design)
And others..." }-

There are AutoCAD alternatives for Linux.

As for all the DOE stuff, that will depend on the demand for such an app. I would wager that the number of people who need that stuff is less than 0.01%.

-{ Quote: "I'm not mentioning all those other CD burning" }-

Give me an example of what CD burning related stuff that Windows can do that Linux can't.

-{ Quote: "Backup" }-

Backup is built into Linux already. All you have to do is use the terminal. And if you can't use the terminal there are graphical apps that can get the job done. Furthermore, with the advent of future filesystems like btrfs, backups will be done on the fly.

-{ Quote: "Security" }-

:D Linux is not Windows, it doesn't need most of the third party security junk that Windows does. But, if you are really security conscious (or if you run a server or something) you can configure the kernel to utilize SELinux or PaX/Grsecurity. Windows cannot match a SELinux or PaX enabled kernel. In fact, M$ hired one of the top Linux kernel security developers in order to be a lead developer for M$. This means they knew they were getting crushed by *nix on the security front and they did what M$ always does, copy the other guys. Many of the extra security features of Vista are things *nix has been doing for many years (DAC and ASLR to name a couple).

-{ Quote: "Download Mgr
" }-

LOL. I can see you have no experience in using Linux (or anything besides Windows).

[Bob D]

-{ Quote: "There are AutoCAD alternatives for Linux." }- Unfortunately there are no comparable Linux flavor programs.
(I cannot even find a more reasonably priced M$ platform alternative).
-{ Quote: "As for all the DOE stuff, that will depend on the demand for such an app. I would wager that the number of people who need that stuff is less than 0.01%.
" }-Cannot disagree. But many of us, because of software restrictions, are stuck in a M$ world.
I sincerely wish that there were a viable alternative.

Cheers

[Arup]

See if we are to go by whats mentioned above by Windows fans, then all of us in LIN world must either be delusional or we just don't use our PCs since there is just no app in Lin world. The fact that right after install, we have a functional system with messenger, spell check, office suite and that too with a 600mb download when even with 4GB full of DVD all you get is a basic OS. Makes you wonder whats in a OS that needs a DVD full of code to install.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "You call me a rabid attack dog when it's you here the the Linux forum preaching the virtues of Windoze and not me in the Windoze forum preaching the virtues of Linux. Why don't you go bark in the Windoze forum and stop tr0lling here." }-
LOL, what happened? Did my posting here destroy your fantasies? Why so mad and angry that while you keep slogging at Linux under the delusion that Windows users are sad and unhappy, we're actually having quite the enjoyable time with our OS?

Did my coming here and correcting some inaccurate comments about Windows bring your whole fantasy world crashing down about you, that you feel the need to resort to repeated personal attacks? So sad. There's really no need be so jealous, or be such a fanboy, but hey, if your delusions help keep you warm at night (some people need their security blankets, I understand), feel free to cling on to them.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "Eice, with due respect, yours is an isolated case, for everyone who quits Lin due to a non functional hardware, there are many more who stick because either it works out of the box for them or they hand around and work out the solution." }-
Not sure what does that have to do with anything here, but I've never disputed that.

-{ Quote: "There are AutoCAD alternatives for Linux." }-
Would there happen to be any good 3D CAD programs like Solid Edge and Pro/ENGINEER, by any chance?

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "Not sure what does that have to do with anything here, but I've never disputed that.


Would there happen to be any good 3D CAD programs like Solid Edge and Pro/ENGINEER, by any chance?" }-


Sadly your tone certainly never indicates that.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "Sadly your tone certainly never indicates that." }-
What sort of tone am I supposed to have, then?

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "What sort of tone am I supposed to have, then?" }-

Ask yourself, you are consistenty giving your case of a hardware not working out with Jaunty, in that tone, I can give quite a few instances where Vista didn't work in few of my PCs, that don't mean I should be telling people not to be using Vista, OTOH, I would let them use it and then tell the them the reason to use Lin over Vista.

[Eice]

-{ Quote: "Ask yourself, you are consistenty giving your case of a hardware not working out with Jaunty, in that tone, I can give quite a few instances where Vista didn't work in few of my PCs, that don't mean I should be telling people not to be using Vista, OTOH, I would let them use it and then tell the them the reason to use Lin over Vista." }-
Consistently?

Look at the thread title. It reads: "Reasons People Quit Linux". I made a post pertaining to the topic being discussed and explained my reason for it, and that was that. I don't remember consistently spamming my issue at every opportunity, much less claiming that my problem is widespread and/or telling people to not use Linux, and I even said that I was willing to try a different distro (Fedora) when the new version is released to see if the same problem persists. It's certainly not my fault that a few people made independent replies later in this thread citing hardware problems as well.

I think you must be mistaking me for someone else.

[NICK ADSL UK]

Could we please refrain from personal attacks to this thread. The thread title is very clear if you cant keep on topic then please refrain from making a comment. Any further off topic comments will be removed

thank you

nick

[Bob D]

-{ Quote: "See if we are to go by whats mentioned above by Windows fans, then all of us in LIN world must either be delusional or..." }-
I am not a M$ fan. I am a fan of my applications.
My OS is merely a platform to run my app.s. Nothing more, nothing less.
M$, Linux, Mac.. I don't give a rat's tail.
It's whatever OS that will run the proggies that keep me in business.
Unfortunately, for now, that remains M$.

[Arup]

-{ Quote: "I am not a M$ fan. I am a fan of my applications.
My OS is merely a platform to run my app.s. Nothing more, nothing less.
M$, Linux, Mac.. I don't give a rat's tail.
It's whatever OS that will run the proggies that keep me in business.
Unfortunately, for now, that remains M$." }-


Sorry to say, you are not looking hard enough, I have apps that I use in Lin which Win has no equivalent, to each his own, whatever suits you.

[Pedro]

-{ Quote: "Not to get OT here, but examples asked for...

>$5,000 here worth of:
Autodesk Revit Building
AutoCAD
PDF FormulaCAD (kazmierczak software)
Digital Canal (Structural Engrg Softwares)
StruCalc (Structural Design)
BeamChek (Structural Design)
REScheck (U.S. Department of Energy's Building Energy Codes Program)
COMcheck (U.S. Department of Energy's Building Energy Codes Program)
Delorme Street Atlas USA
SketchUp Pro
HCALC (Tahoe Design Software)
TJ-Beam (iLevel Weyerhaeuser struct. design)
And others...

I'm not mentioning all those other CD burning, Backup, Plot Spooler, Security, Download Mgr, etc. softs which may (or may not) have comparable Linux flavors.

Cheers" }-
Yes, i don't know if pursuing this is OT. I have plenty o'links to share, but no guarantee they do the job. I don't use CAD. I do know though, that version 2004 got a gold rating in WINEHQ (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=86).

I guess, before we begin PM'ing ;D , we need to establish/differentiate 2 things: format compatibility, and program capabilities.

BTW, download manager is simple: wget 3w's.bestsite.com/awesomedistro.iso . To resume, add '-c' option after wget. It's ridiculous how simple that kind of stuff is, once you start using it. CD burning, GNOME and KDE got you covered. Backup, plenty of options, GUI or CLI, remote or local. In fact, you can practically scratch admin/maintenance stuff. It's just there.

[Arup]

Actually when it comes to download managers, mutli get which is in the Jaunty repos and is available at getdeb as well comes the closest to Windows based managers like FDM and Orbit, even it terms of interface.

[lewmur]

-{ Quote: "LOL, what happened? Did my posting here destroy your fantasies? ." }-
Not in the least. I just find it an irritant to try to distinguish between legitimate request for help and these tr0lling messages whose only purpose is to spread FUD. You serve no legitimate purpose here.. GET LOST!!!

BTW, you want to call me an attack dog but at least MY motives are honest. Can't say the same for someone who post in a forum for a product they supposedly abhor as much as you do Linux. As I've said many times, you don't find me in the Windoze forum dissing it. You can call me an attack dog all you want. You can't call me a tr0ll because I'm not in the Windoze forum..