Multi-AV Programs

[Kas]

Well, I`ll be damned ! I raised a thread on the use of multi-Firewalls and got a nice lot or replies from users on that which I appreciated and took notice of, although the issue is certainly NOT a finite science and nothing goes BANG if you do use multi-Firewalls.

NOW ! I have to up-grade my AVG 8.0 Free because they tell me that it will not be supported after the 30th April 09 and I MUST upgrade to AVG 8.5 Free. OK like a good soldier I have done it.

BUT ! when I was doing it, a panel came up with a message that " you have another AV system installed on your computer, it is not advisable to run two AV systems as they may conflict and we suggest you un-install the other one immediately".

Who the hell do these people think they are ? They all use different data bases, if I want to use a 100 different AV programs, I will do it. What one does not catch, the others will.

I have AVG, COMODO IS, Spyware Terminator and Spybot, all running at the same time and what is more they STAY running. I have been served well with this set up, never had a problem and until I get let down, it all stays put, regardless of individual suppliers comments.

What do the Forum members think of this AVG comment that only ONE AV system should run on our PC`s ?

Whilst I accept the Firewall scenario in essence but not in fact, I do not accept the same consensus of opinion for AV systems. What do all these people want ? A monopoly ?

Your comments will be much appreciated.
Many thanks
KAS

[Tarq57]

It's not to do with a monopoly. (Not usually, anyway.)
It is to do with the nature of the applications causing serious conflicts with one another. Even if not active; just installed.
I've seen the results on a couple of occasions. Hardly conclusive anecdote, I know, but the phenomena is common enough that the advice you are most likely to get is "best don't do it."
(There may be some combinations of AV's you might get away with running together, for a time. It seems that as their detection and removal abilities-of necessity- improve, the likelihood of finding those that "play well" will diminish to naught.)

[i_g]

-{ Quote: "Who the hell do these people think they are ? They all use different data bases, if I want to use a 100 different AV programs, I will do it. What one does not catch, the others will." }-
Very funny ;D
It's got nothing to do with databases - but with conflicts of the drivers that hook various OS actions (such as file access).
If you install multiple resident scanners, there's a good chance that your system will freeze or bluescreen. Or, another possible scenario - a malicous file that, under normal circumstances, would be detected by both (all) of the scanners - suddenly goes undetected at all (because one of the scanners detects and removes temporary files created by the other one during the file processing, thus interfering with the detection).

Yes, maybe you don't have any problems with multiple scanners installed (or more precisely - you think that you don't have any problems) - but the number of similar users is very low, compared to the huge userbase that would install multiple AVs unknowingly - and when their system stops working, they blame the latest installed AV for crashing their system, of course.

[Kas]

I really appreciate all the replies from my Forum companions. Comments from this source are far better than a suppliers comments, be it that we do take their comments into account with reservations bearing in mind that they are SELLING a product.

I would point out that security does not rely on ONE single measure alone. Nobody does that, not the military or private companies. Consider an Alarm, an Alsatian Dog and Me with an 0.44 Magnum. They ignore the alarm, they kill the dog and then they face me with the Magnum and I kill them - BANG they are gone ! Same with AV systems.

I have had serious infections detected individually by ST, AVG and COMODO.

Each one has a separate data base, say A,B,C. The only way absolute security can be assured is if ONE system had a data base of A+B+C, THEN we could have just ONE AV system installed.

It is OK talking about Drivers conflict, but I am more concerned with outside intrusions trying to damage my system or steal my personal data.
If I have to sacrifice my security to make the drivers have a nice day then I am very sorry but they will have to have a bad day.

Not much getting around that scenario is there ?
KAS

[Osaban]

It is one of the first warnings given to whoever wants to install a new AV, not only it is recommended to have one at the time running, but to carefully uninstall the previous one (you should read some of the horror stories linked to AVs leaving a host of registry entries behind, requiring special tools to remove them).

You can have one resident (active) and one on demand (without the active guard), but I think the best compromise would be to have an AV with double engine like GDATA (using Avast and Bitdfender engines), which has the best detection according to AV Comparatives. It is heavier on the system than any single engine, but for someone like you who likes to run several at the same time maybe the best compromise. The only catch is that it's not free.

[Kas]

I apologise firstly because I do not want to monopolise my own thread, but the message I am getting so far is that the epitome of security is to walk through central Fallujah in Iraq with only a Pea Shooter and a whistle.

Does not seem a very good bet, the Marines would have second thoughts.
KAS

[Tarq57]

-{ Quote: " I apologise firstly because I do not want to monopolise my own thread, but the message I am getting so far is that the epitome of security is to walk through central Fallujah in Iraq with only a Pea Shooter and a whistle.

Does not seem a very good bet, the Marines would have second thoughts.
KAS" }-
To extend that analogy further, you would walk through >insert dodgy neighborhood here< with much more than a peashooter and a whistle. Id imagine you'd have a firearm. A flak jacket. Possibly a chemsuit/repirator. Possibly air support. Advance intelligence on hazards where you're heading. etc etc.
You would probably not carry so many firearms that you couldn't actually use them effectively due to lack of mobility.
See where I'm heading with this?
One gun, if it's the right gun, combined with the other backup layers is what the average person in a hot zone would want. Plus maybe a sidearm for close in work. The sidearm could be analagous to a demand scanner, that you pull out and use in times of deep $#1t.

[JRViejo]

-{ Quote: "What do the Forum members think of this AVG comment that only ONE AV system should run on our PC`s ?" }-
Kas, this is the official word from the AVG Forum: BEFORE INSTALLING AVG 8.5 FREE EDITION (http://freeforum.avg.com/read.php?13,121087,backpage=,sv=). However, in your situation, it seems that AVG and Comodo have been cohabitating quite nicely, except now when trying to update AVG, which could mean a driver conflict during that process.

Since Comodo IS has an Antivirus component to it, perhaps all you need is to disable it, while installing AVG, then enabling it after a reboot. Found this in the Comodo forum: How to turn off Anti Virus when installing something (https://forums.comodo.com/anti_virus_help/how_to_turn_off_anti_virus_when_installing_something-t37497.0.html). Hope it helps.

[zapjb]

I don't know anybody who runs more than 1 AV realtime. Imo/ime it's a disaster.

[Kas]

-{ Quote: "I don't know anybody who runs more than 1 AV realtime. Imo/ime it's a disaster." }-

Hello zapjb,
I do know somebody who runs Spybot, Spywareblaster, Spyware Terminator, COMODO IS and AVG 8.5, all working in perfect harmony and without a trace of trouble of any kind after several years operation - so you know somebody now - ME !

Four of these have Realtime protection, three are AV and SWB sits in ambush with it`s booby traps in the background. A super team.

AVG 8.5 updated from 8.0 with no problem on the second try like a dream, without having to disable anything. All programs update automatically except ST, which is manually done by me every evening.

Every one of these has caught virus`s and other infection attempts individually and my PC is completely clean. I scan with a selection of these regularly without problems and also have other manual programs like Malwarebytes etc to play with.

On top of all this orchestral combination of security, I have Windows XP Home security systems all enabled. Yep, two Firewalls as well and everything goes with the flow.

Guess I must be rather unique.
KAS

[JRViejo]

-{ Quote: "AVG 8.5 updated from 8.0 with no problem on the second try like a dream, without having to disable anything." }-
Great to hear that! Keep on truckin' with your security symphony.

[EASTER]

-{ Quote: "Hello zapjb,
I do know somebody who runs Spybot, Spywareblaster, Spyware Terminator, COMODO IS and AVG 8.5, all working in perfect harmony and without a trace of trouble of any kind after several years operation - so you know somebody now - ME !

Four of these have Realtime protection, three are AV and SWB sits in ambush with it`s booby traps in the background. A super team.

AVG 8.5 updated from 8.0 with no problem on the second try like a dream, without having to disable anything. All programs update automatically except ST, which is manually done by me every evening.

Every one of these has caught virus`s and other infection attempts individually and my PC is completely clean. I scan with a selection of these regularly without problems and also have other manual programs like Malwarebytes etc to play with.

On top of all this orchestral combination of security, I have Windows XP Home security systems all enabled. Yep, two Firewalls as well and everything goes with the flow.

Guess I must be rather unique.
KAS" }-

How about that. A fellow after my own heart, and i thought i was the only one who HEAPED the security comando groups together so much together. LoL

One thing i like to say about SpywareTerminator and i'll try to ignore the crawler crap they should have ditched years ago but seem married to them (UGH)

If ST would allow for any AV to incorporate into their app like my little ScriptTrap app instead of filesclab only, they would already been well on their way to a healthy audience instead of some here and some there who use it. Shame really, but they can stay in limbo if thats their choice. I do like the On-Demand & HIPS part, but if i was them, i would stop wasting time with antispyware defs and do like i said and incorporate any AV of a users choice into their HIPS/Resident Protection Scheme, but think they would ever put their heart in something that efficient these days?

Still, don't feel like lonesome George, get a load of my everyday security, NOD32, EQS, ProcessGuard, Mamutu, ScriptTrap, Sandboxie, and SUPERantispyware.

Go for the gusto and make those bad boys work to pick a hole in our machines. 8)

[Coff]

For the past ten months or so I've had eight anti virus programs on both a pc and laptop. I did this as an experiment to see if there were any conflicts and there have been no problems. None of the programs run in real time and I use batch files and either taskkill or pskill to enable and disable services.

AVG
Comodo
Avast
Avira
PCTools
ClamWin
Rising
BitDefender

I use System Safety Monitor for real time protection and have a few other anti spyware programs.

As I say, it was done as an experiment and I've had no problems with conflicts or slowdowns on either system.

208146

[Boost]

-{ Quote: "
What do the Forum members think of this AVG comment that only ONE AV system should run on our PC`s " }-

They are correct,no reason to run more then 1 antivirus program.People want or feel the need for more security,add a HIPS program or some sort of virtulizaton software to compliment the AV.

[lodore]

if you need more than one av i would assume you are get infected often.
the solution is to change your surfing habits and also add a extra safety net such as HIPS.
mutiple on demand scanners are fine.
but its better to use stand alone on demand scanners rather than installing full av's and not installing the realt time protection.
such as drweb cure it,f-secure easy clean,avptool,sysclean etc.

[Kas]

Encouraging to say the least. Two or three posters above comply with my own experience that running several AV and Realtime programs gives no problem at all. Read my own post above, it is all very true and the only problem I am aware of is the individual competition between my Guardian Angels as to who gets the bad guy first.

Re, the poster saying I must get a multitude of infections - wrong again chum, not me luv - I get very few, only need one hand to count them on in any given year and my surfing habits are as pure as an angels Halo.

Well I appear to have some degree of support from the world at large, perhaps the Three Musketeers ?

I can only say with great foreboding that if the posters above wish to rely on a single sling-shot to wander through the most comprehensive and complicated minefield of all time in this big bad world, infested with every conceivable kind of cons, frauds, criminal behaviour and nasty selling tactics ad infinitum, then may God go with you and good luck. Ya sure are gonna need it.

Just make sure the elastic does not break or you don`t run out of pebbles.
I am absolutely astounded that I am being told to wander about the bad lands with nothing more than a walking stick and a Hershey bar.
KAS

[Osaban]

I suppose your original issue has been resolved. You are asking for advice, but then your thread becomes a survey about who does what. There is an appropriate section for polls.

[zapjb]

This is getting confusing. It was very much implied that OP was talking about running 2 or more AVs in realtime. I know thats a bad idea.

But then theres talk of AS, SSD & other non AV programs running in realtime along with 1 AV. I think thats fine if you want.

[Kas]

I sense a little confusion. Let me clear it up.

The consensus of opinion is that if more than ONE AV program is run on Windows XP Home at the same time, then Armageddon will occur and Satan will descend upon us.

Armageddon does NOT occur. In fact nothing occurs except a clean PC and the efficient operation of several security programs working in unison.
Read my previous posts, I do not wish to re-invent the wheel.

WHY then do you say this monumental disaster will occur when it does not ?
It is NOT a poll, who is casting any votes ? We are merely trying to establish the relationship between opinion and fact.

All that is being asked is why a prediction of disaster is made on the one hand, when nothing but good happens in practice on the other.

Just concentrate on ;-

Prediction = disaster ? - an opinion not supported by fact.
Practice = perfect harmonious operation - completely supported by fact.
KAS
====
Actually, my initial question was "Why does AVG ask me to shut down other AV systems ?" When in fact it is not necessary. Several security programs can be run in unison without any conflict whatsoever, in fact it is an advantage. I simply wanted expert opinions. What I am getting is a consolidation of the AVG monopoly stance of ONE AV system only and the matter is becoming argumentative.

It is clear to me now that using several security systems at the same time is highly advantageous and no conflict does occur. This is born out by my own impeccable results.
Perhaps we had better close this thread.
I would like to thank everybody who responded and sincerely express my gratitude to you all for your valued comments.
KAS

[Joeythedude]

Hi Kas

-{ Quote: "Spybot, Spywareblaster, Spyware Terminator, COMODO IS and AVG 8.5" }-

I'd think Spybot, Spywareblaster, Spyware Terminator would prob not conflict with each other.
I'm surprised that COMODO IS and AVG 8.5 don't.

Definatly in the past 2 AV's would screw up a lot of systems.If an AV was partially uninstalled , it would cause problems too.

It could be out of date advice, and that because there are so many types of security prog , these days manufactures work hard to avoid conflicts.
My undertstanding is that all security programs use a part of the OS called "system hooks". If 2 security apps try to use the same "system hook" , PC could crash.

This page is what I base this on - skip most of it just look at the Research results near the end

http://www.matousec.com/info/articles/plague-in-security-software-drivers.php


If you have a good backup , and want to see more about this idea try running this program - but read the warnings.

http://www.matousec.com/projects/bsodhook/


I'd be very interested in what results you get.

My guess at this point is that COMODO IS and AVG 8.5 won't have any thing highlighted in the report.

But don't try it without a full working backup !

Cheers
J

[aniku]

Does this not slow down the PC if i use Multi-AV Programs :P ?

[CubonesCastle]

It can be done, I have had AVG and AVAST! running perfectly fine together before.

AVAST = Web Traffic / File Monitor disabled.

AVG = File monitor / WEB disabled.

In essance you then have 2 AV programs running.

Whats not found by Avast! AVG picks up when it becomes local.

It works you just have to do a bit of trial and error first.

[markcc]

As stated in an earlier post, you can run G Data, Trustport or F-Secure if you want more than one scanner looking at your system at the same time. This will help ensure that you don't run into problems & better your chances that everything will get along!

[CubonesCastle]

-{ Quote: "As stated in an earlier post, you can run G Data, Trustport or F-Secure if you want more than one scanner looking at your system at the same time. This will help ensure that you don't run into problems & better your chances that everything will get along!" }-

F-secure has more then 1 Scanner? Don't they use the KAV6/7 engine?

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "F-secure has more then 1 Scanner? Don't they use the KAV6/7 engine?" }-
they use kaspersky engine along with f-secure inhouse engines.
blacklight is their in house engine for rootkits.
i cant remember the other engines they use atm but around three different in house engines.
f-secure has a very decent team and if there is an outbreak they add detection to one of their own engines.

[markcc]

I have tried the ones I listed. The heaviest one on my machine by far was F-secure followed by Trustport & G Data. G Data uses lots of memory, however I saw very little effect on system performance. I ended up buying G Data & am happy with my purchase.

[Sully]

I applaud those who experiment with courses 'outside the box'. It is how one learns the most. To say that more than one fw or more than one av, or more than one anything can't be done is to stop pressing. Not that doing these things is always going to work, but often you find things work on one box and not another. Leaving you scratching your head, and learning.

I suppose anyone reading this thread, wondering about thier own security, and how this might apply to them, might be confused. These sort of things go against the grain of coventional wisdom.

I think rather than relying on day to day use of such testbeds, one would be better off to follow principles set forth by Mrkvonic. Perhaps tempered with a grain of extra measure if desired. He may be a minimalist, but his point in hand is true. You don't HAVE to go to such extremes to achieve 'one-ness' with your security.

Nice topic though, full of good experimenting.

Sul.

[maymoons]

i dont know, how is it;


MultiCore AntiVirus & AntiSpyware 2.0000.00021

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Antivirus/MultiCore-AntiVirus-AntiSpyware.shtml

A new unique product reliably defends PC against computer malware and on-line threats at highest security levels. Antivirus labs of individual vendors are just unable to handle with enormous number of virus signatures appearing every day. A product runs five antivirus and antispyware scan-engines provided by AVG Technologies CZ s.r.o., FRISK Software International, Norman ASA, Lavasoft AB and Sunbelt Software Inc. without performance degradation.

[raven211]

-{ Quote: "i dont know, how is it;


MultiCore AntiVirus & AntiSpyware 2.0000.00021

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Antivirus/MultiCore-AntiVirus-AntiSpyware.shtml

A new unique product reliably defends PC against computer malware and on-line threats at highest security levels. Antivirus labs of individual vendors are just unable to handle with enormous number of virus signatures appearing every day. A product runs five antivirus and antispyware scan-engines provided by AVG Technologies CZ s.r.o., FRISK Software International, Norman ASA, Lavasoft AB and Sunbelt Software Inc. without performance degradation." }-

Looks really cool - checking it now. :)

[Kas]

I did think I had ended this very interesting thread, but quite a few posts have come in since.

My conviction has been fully outlined in detail - read my posts. I will not post again ( I hope ) but will read every one of your valued comments.

I personally think this subject is common to every net user and the posts are a great help to all. Keep them coming, it will provide a valuable reference for many users.

Just bear in mind one thing - multiple AV`s, providing they are reputable programs DO work and work without any problems whatsoever.

Making blunt unsubstantiated statements that only ONE AV system is possible, otherwise a monumental Apocalypse will descend upon us, is rather irrational and inconsistent with logical thought and probably out-of-date.

Those who advocate this impending hypothetical disaster should provide some factual evidence that counter-acts the unblemished success of running multiple AV`s, otherwise it is just an opinion and EVERYBODY has one of those.
KAS

!!!! I would hope that the designers and technicians at each of these major AV companies would have adopted the common practice in all technical work, of carrying out a CONFLICT test in their laboratories against all their major competitors products, to eliminate this factor before releasing their own product.
Not to do this invites marketing chaos and tarnishing their company name.
This is probably why we CAN run these AV`s as multi-protection - they do NOT conflict at all. My five do not.

[CubonesCastle]

-{ Quote: "they use kaspersky engine along with f-secure inhouse engines.
blacklight is their in house engine for rootkits.
i cant remember the other engines they use atm but around three different in house engines.
f-secure has a very decent team and if there is an outbreak they add detection to one of their own engines." }-

Thats cool i didden't know that, I will look into it further :)

[Tarq57]

-{ Quote: "Making blunt unsubstantiated statements that only ONE AV system is possible, otherwise a monumental Apocalypse will descend upon us, is rather irrational and inconsistent with logical thought and probably out-of-date." }-
Perhaps you are right, in that it is a bit of a blunt statement. (A bit like saying "speed kills" is a bit of a blunt statement in respect to road users.) (No, let's not go there.)
Both statements are true, but obviously (it would appear) there are exceptions. Personally I have seen a number of systems with 2 AV's installed that were slowed to a crawl, and sometimes had other issues also. (Norton was usually the application left dormant, while AVG or Avast were the active AV's.) Removal of the dormant AV sped things right up. I've also read about this on forums. A lot. So I would suggest that, blunt or not, it is good advice, at least until you know what you are doing and can make the appropriate tests (including under the hood) to confirm there is no problem.
-{ Quote: "This is probably why we CAN run these AV`s as multi-protection - they do NOT conflict at all. My five do not." }- Which 5 are they, then? I only saw evidence of two on this thread. Three if you include the optional AV definitions included in ST, an Antispyware.

[CubonesCastle]

-{ Quote: "Perhaps you are right, in that it is a bit of a blunt statement. (A bit like saying "speed kills" is a bit of a blunt statement in respect to road users.) (No, let's not go there.)" }-

The only exception is if your in a delorean traveling at 88 MPH then speeding is probably a good thing.

And as long as you keep your two AV software on different jobs you should be fine, Also running both AVG + AVAST! did not slow me down at all.

[Tarq57]

-{ Quote: "The only exception is if your in a delorean traveling at 88 MPH then speeding is probably a good thing" }-
Only if you know the bridge will definitely have been completed at the "new" time you get to it!

[Kas]

-{ Quote: ".
Which 5 are they, then? I only saw evidence of two on this thread. Three if you include the optional AV definitions included in ST, an Antispyware." }-

AVG 8.5
Spywareblaster
Spyware Terminator
COMODO IS
Spybot

I "think" that counts to FIVE, every one of which were mentioned in my post No.10, which you have apparently missed.
All have Realtime except SWB, which lays in ambush with it`s nice little booby-traps.

I do not intend to argue about all this. I have raised a very interesting and radical thread, stated my experiences VERY clearly and have no intention of repeating them over and over again.

Just give others a chance to come in with their valued and useful comments - perhaps we will both learn a few new tricks.
KAS

[Tarq57]

You have raised an interesting thread. Not that radical, though. The fact is, only two of those are AV's. And if the AV component of CIS is not installed, you only have one.
SpywareBlaster, as you have correctly pointed out, is not an AV. In fact, it has no realtime (nor any other) file scanning at all; it modifies the registry to prevent (or reduce permissions) of certain websites.
Spybot is an antispyware.
SpywareTerminator is an antispyware. That it may use AV definitions as part of its process is not relevant.
Do you actually have the AV part of CIS installed and active, alongside AVG (which presumably is active also) ?

[CubonesCastle]

Spyware-Terminator has an active realtime AV scanner useing the ClamAV engine so that would still count.

And i like this thread because i like to try new things.

[andyman35]

-{ Quote: "

I can only say with great foreboding that if the posters above wish to rely on a single sling-shot to wander through the most comprehensive and complicated minefield of all time in this big bad world, infested with every conceivable kind of cons, frauds, criminal behaviour and nasty selling tactics ad infinitum, then may God go with you and good luck. Ya sure are gonna need it.

Just make sure the elastic does not break or you don`t run out of pebbles.
I am absolutely astounded that I am being told to wander about the bad lands with nothing more than a walking stick and a Hershey bar.
KAS" }-
The problem with that assertion is that AV scanners are somehow definitive methods of security and the more you run the higher your security will be.Alas this isn't necessarily so,while adding additional engines may increase your detection rate slightly,there are far more efficient and effective ways to increase security.A simple thing such as running your browser sandboxed will give you a far greater benefit than running 5 or 6 real time scanners without the impact on resources.But of course at the end of the day we all run the security that we feel happy with,so if multiple scanners make you feel safe and don't cause noticeable issues then that's fine.

[Sully]

-{ Quote: "Just bear in mind one thing - multiple AV`s, providing they are reputable programs DO work and work without any problems whatsoever." }- In keeping to some form of logic here, your wording is slightly askew. 'without any problems whatsoever' applies to your specific hardware/software setup. I would say that until you have successfully applied your 'scheme' to many computers comprising many different hardware/software combinations, your statement would be best as 'works for me' or 'from my testing appears to work just fine'. My opinion anyway.

-{ Quote: "Making blunt unsubstantiated statements that only ONE AV system is possible, otherwise a monumental Apocalypse will descend upon us, is rather irrational and inconsistent with logical thought and probably out-of-date.

Those who advocate this impending hypothetical disaster should provide some factual evidence that counter-acts the unblemished success of running multiple AV`s, otherwise it is just an" }-
Again, while I would not argue that more than one AV will fail to work, I would also not say that using multiple AV or indeed using no AV will make or break anything. Apocalypse WILL descend on peeps. At least, those who don't have the desire to really become a geek. And even geeks, when they let thier guard down and become lazy, can get into problems. The difference is both in that geeks can fix thier problems (normally) and geeks usually use programs that are lean, efficient and best in class protection. Always exceptions...

I know you appreciate cutting to the chase on things. Finding the simple logic behind topics. Do you really think challenging someone to provide facts that multi-AV is better or worse is necessary to your opinion? lol, as you know, these are all opinions based off user experience. Rarely is there some solid truths that are PURE facts that end these types of debates.

Keep up the 'make you think' topics Kas, I enjoy them.

Sul.

[moyed]

Sully. if there are 2 av programs on the computer and they are stalling each other and freezing the computer. what is the best way to solve this??????

[CubonesCastle]

-{ Quote: "Sully. if there are 2 av programs on the computer and they are stalling each other and freezing the computer. what is the best way to solve this??????" }-

Uninstall one, Or keep one on Local monitor and one on Web monitor.

[Sully]

You could determine more by testing. Try to disable the service or autostartup for one of them. The other is running at bootup. Then perhaps you can try starting the other one (the services) after the first is up. Maybe there is a conflict during bootup.

yes, you can uninstall. But if you are testing anyway, why not see when the conflict occurs. There are probably other methods, but that is an easy on to start with.

Sul.

EDIT: As 3DFireStarteR says, make on or the other have it's guard on, the other off. And vice-versa. See what happens. Personally, I rarely scan my computer. I like Avira just for the guard. I guess you gotta decide how you want to run things, maybe more than one AV is right for you. Maybe not.

[BrendanK.]

-{ Quote: "Looks really cool - checking it now. :)" }-

The authors website doesn't load for me...I'm a little suspicious ??? Or maybe the product has been discontinued?

[Osaban]

-{ Quote: " Personally, I rarely scan my computer. I like Avira just for the guard." }-

I couldn't agree more, if the computer is believed to be clean in the first place with the guard on it is enough. Although one could argue that a zero day virus could theoretically slip through the guard, and be caught by the scanner a week later once the new definition of the zero day is ready. This is the reason that having sandboxing/virtualization as well makes the computer practically impenetrable.

[Kas]

I do find most of the posts on this issue extremely informative and cover the wide variety of systems and programs we all use in a logical and sensible manner, obviously by very knowledgeable users.

A few posts are preposterous. To blatantly state that multi-AV usage is a "disaster" or will cause all kinds of trouble, is irrational and bordering on paranoiac nonsense rather equivalent to the fanatical enthusiasm expressed by members of the Flat Earth Society.

Obviously it depends on each individual system and the AV`s plus other security programs being used. The combinations are infinite.

As I have stated clearly several times, I have Windows XP Home, SP3 and IE7. I have used several different AV and other security programs running in unison for over 4 years with no trouble at all. Perfect harmony and a real clamp on intrusions. My PC is clinically clean, my intrusions are very few and my surfing habits are impeccable.

I have a belt-and-braces security simply to stop any bandits coming in should I fall into the naive trap of relying on ONE single barrier, a risky practice recommended in some of these posts.

I use Spybot, AVG, Spyware Terminator, Spywareblaster, COMODO IS at present plus the Windows security pack enabled, all running nice and sweetly and each catching their share of bad guys when they pop up. Plus several manual goodies like Malwarebytes to play with. I have used other combinations over the years, again with no trouble.

FACT - multi-AV and other security programs CAN be run in tandem with no trouble at all. It obviously depends on your choice and set-up. Mine must be a good arrangement, admittedly by accident and not intent.

Just avoid making irrational statements that multi-AV use is a disaster, it is simply utter nonsense.
KAS

[Mirjalovic]

Ok Kas

what did your actual point now?..

if you mean..you can using 2 or more AV in same time...& realtime/resident/protection enabled....i recomend you to use Kaspersky AV & NOD32 in same time..& see what the disaster in your PC.,,,,or,,if you don't like them..try Norton AV,McAfee & Panda AV combination..

Avira is a very good secondary AV..It's also allowed you to install the only scanner,,without resident shield...

i'm ,in my laptop..i'm use ESS v4,Spware Blaster,Spybot,Avira Free,Malwarebytes & 2 local AV,,..Ansav & Smadav..but only the ESS realtime protection is enabled...
why?because i hate slow computer,,because i'm sure ESS good enough to blocks malware,virus,spyware etc..,,because i don't need so many RTP....i can use the rest of them to perform an on demand scanner..,

or..if your point was why you get warned by AVG,,to don't install 2 or more AV..i could say it's all about bussines.....Norton & McAfee were never can be installed in same computer...

fix our behaviour in internet is a great preventing our PC from get infected

i'm apologize for my english..

[Kas]

-{ Quote: "Ok Kas

what did your actual point now?..

if you mean..you can using 2 or more AV in same time...& realtime/resident/protection enabled....i recomend you to use Kaspersky AV & NOD32 in same time..& see what the disaster in your PC.,,,,or,,if you don't like them..try Norton AV,McAfee & Panda AV combination..

Avira is a very good secondary AV..It's also allowed you to install the only scanner,,without resident shield...

i'm ,in my laptop..i'm use ESS v4,Spware Blaster,Spybot,Avira Free,Malwarebytes & 2 local AV,,..Ansav & Smadav..but only the ESS realtime protection is enabled...
why?because i hate slow computer,,because i'm sure ESS good enough to blocks malware,virus,spyware etc..,,because i don't need so many RTP....i can use the rest of them to perform an on demand scanner..,

or..if your point was why you get warned by AVG,,to don't install 2 or more AV..i could say it's all about bussines.....Norton & McAfee were never can be installed in same computer...

fix our behaviour in internet is a great preventing our PC from get infected

i'm apologize for my english.." }-

I am not advocating that the whole world install a massive battery of AV`s on their PC`s, just saying that multi-AV`s work fine without any problems providing your set-up and choice of AV`s all blend in harmony. Mine do as I have said many, many times.
I am not even interested in speed. One has to compromise between security and response times. Each to his own on that. It is usually called judgement.

Neither do I care about Norton, McAfee, NOD32, Kaspersky or anything else.

Why should I try programs that are not compatible, especially if you have to pay for them ? I favor versatility, universal adaptation and operational compatibility in a product.

I am not in the experimental game seeking to blow my PC up for a giggle, just specifying what does work ( all freebies ) on my computer and thus dispensing the raggle-taggle old myth that multi-AV`s are taboo.

The single program philosophy is of course paramount in the bible of instructions to customers IF you are producing and selling a product. We all know that one from wide experience. Try car spares for starters or even better, printer manufacturers biblical therapy on how any alternative ink cartrdges other than their very own will not work.

The entrenched attitude towards single AV monopoly obviously does apply to the products you mention, but we do not all install such restrictive programs on our computers, least of all pay for them. I have none of the products you state - good luck with them.
KAS

[pugmug]

Kas,love your post #30 edit,I hope.Keep posting as you are up to three past,lol.

[Sully]

-{ Quote: "As I have stated clearly several times, I have Windows XP Home, SP3 and IE7. I have used several different AV and other security programs running in unison for over 4 years with no trouble at all." }-Granted, this configuration works. And perhaps it would work on a number of different hardware/software configurations.

I know from experience coding, that when you expect your 'thing', multi AV, multi FW, program you make etc, to work on all machines, often you find failure. Not due to your testbed failing. Only due to the massive amount of differentiation available in pc's.

I completely get your point here. The question is, will other user's be able to, without problem, recreate what you are sharing. They might, I have no idea. One thing for sure, and what I find as the value of this thread, some will try what you lay out. And perhaps many will find indeed that it works over a wide range of variables. Whether or not this layout is better or worse is beside the point. The crux is that these kinds of posts spur experimenting. And that is always good. IMHO anyway.

There are those that will say 'this is all wrong'. I figure it breaks down into 2 types. One type has read this is the truth. The other type has experienced this to be the truth. Either way, saying it is wrong or should not be done or can't be done is not the truth. The truth is, in computing with pc's, that you won't know until you try. And in defense of those who naysay, often it is the program designers themselves that have gone through testing, and have with facts themselves said 'don't mix apples and oranges or explosions will occur'. I think this is often correct advice, from the standpoint of the testbeds they used and the results they found.

I think with all the variables that can exist, it is hard to know until you try. I guess that applies to everything in life though.

Sul.

[andyman35]

-{ Quote: "Granted, this configuration works. And perhaps it would work on a number of different hardware/software configurations.

I know from experience coding, that when you expect your 'thing', multi AV, multi FW, program you make etc, to work on all machines, often you find failure. Not due to your testbed failing. Only due to the massive amount of differentiation available in pc's.

I completely get your point here. The question is, will other user's be able to, without problem, recreate what you are sharing. They might, I have no idea. One thing for sure, and what I find as the value of this thread, some will try what you lay out. And perhaps many will find indeed that it works over a wide range of variables. Whether or not this layout is better or worse is beside the point. The crux is that these kinds of posts spur experimenting. And that is always good. IMHO anyway.

There are those that will say 'this is all wrong'. I figure it breaks down into 2 types. One type has read this is the truth. The other type has experienced this to be the truth. Either way, saying it is wrong or should not be done or can't be done is not the truth. The truth is, in computing with pc's, that you won't know until you try. And in defense of those who naysay, often it is the program designers themselves that have gone through testing, and have with facts themselves said 'don't mix apples and oranges or explosions will occur'. I think this is often correct advice, from the standpoint of the testbeds they used and the results they found.

I think with all the variables that can exist, it is hard to know until you try. I guess that applies to everything in life though.

Sul." }-

Yes as long as you have a backup image to hand experimentation is most informative.

[kareldjag]

Hi,

You have not seen the algorithm that demonstrates the dead end blacklist concept,
You think that more scanners engines will make the line defense immune from malwares,
You are in a gateway,
You have a heavy wallet or your Taylor is rich...
well...so Metascan is for you http://opswat.com/products/metascan/metascan

NB. there is a few underground tools which integrates several scanners, but they are of course totally illegal...

Rgds

[Osaban]

-{ Quote: "Hi,

You have not seen the algorithm that demonstrates the dead end blacklist concept,
You think that more scanners engines will make the line defense immune from malwares,
You are in a gateway,
You have a heavy wallet or your Taylor is rich...
well...so Metascan is for you http://opswat.com/products/metascan/metascan

NB. there is a few underground tools which integrates several scanners, but they are of course totally illegal...

Rgds" }-

Interesting, when the price of the AV may be higher than the machine it is protecting!

[LowWaterMark]

The title of this thread was "Multi-AV Programs". Yet, it is UNBELIEVABLE that MANY of you drew in World War II and A-Bomb analogies.

Let's see... The "Anti-Virus PC Software Market" versus "World War II and the A-Bomb"... Hmm, yeah, that's all the same thing. :wacko:

Many posts removed. Reviewing all that was posted.