Returnil or Eboostr 3.0

[Woodtears]

What's the difference between Returnil and Eboostr 3.0? Would an operative system do better with Eboostr or would it be best to stay with Returnil? Which one increases, for instance, the system performance and speed better?

[crofttk]

Not much of a comparison to be made, IMO, since they are each designed to achieve different and pretty much mutually exclusive things. The main difference is that Returnil is not a "performance booster" but virtualization software to preserve system integrity/security by preventing unwanted changes. I see no mention of anything similar to Returnil's functionality at ebooster.com.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> Not much of a comparison to be made, IMO, since they are each designed to achieve different and pretty much mutually exclusive things. The main difference is that Returnil is not a "performance booster" but virtualization software to preserve system integrity/security by preventing unwanted changes. I see no mention of anything similar to Returnil's functionality at ebooster.com. <-QUOTE}

its my observation that Returnil causes anything working faster and smoother if in Returnil mode ! So its maybe not intended as a performance booster but actually it work that way.
BTW i have no virt.part. on disk but have memory allocation.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> its my observation that Returnil causes anything working faster and smoother if in Returnil mode ! So its maybe not intended as a performance booster but actually it work that way.
BTW i have no virt.part. on disk but have memory allocation. <-QUOTE}Well, you do have a point, Huupi. I would imagine using it in memory mode would enhance performance for most things.

I have seen Coldmoon mention, however, that memory mode can be risky for larger file operations. That risk comment makes sense to me but, aside from that, for what I imagine that most users do with their machines, it may indeed enhance performance at an acceptable risk level while running in memory mode.

I am conservative and stick to disk mode, so the memory mode benefit never occurred to me.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> Well, you do have a point, Huupi. I would imagine using it in memory mode would enhance performance for most things.

I have seen Coldmoon mention, however, that memory mode can be risky for larger file operations. That risk comment makes sense to me but, aside from that, for what I imagine that most users do with their machines, it may indeed enhance performance at an acceptable risk level while running in memory mode.

I am conservative and stick to disk mode, so the memory mode benefit never occurred to me. <-QUOTE}

Coldmoon is kinda like a conservative guy ! ;D

There is a huge difference if using photoshop in returnil mode or without it.

It take 4 times longer before photoshop swap out data from memory to disk !!!

I work with 100 Mb image files and using filters on it bring the system almost to a standstill,doing the same in returnil mode and everything keeps flying !! ;)

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> Coldmoon is kinda like a conservative guy ! ;D ... <-QUOTE}Hehe, I imagine in his position it pays a little better to be that way.;)

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> Hehe, I imagine in his position it pays a little better to be that way.;) <-QUOTE}

its beyond my imagination why there is so little mention of the performance enhancements obtained with memory allocation !

as to your quote : I concur. ;)

[bgoodman4]

{QUOTE-> Coldmoon is kinda like a conservative guy ! ;D

There is a huge difference if using photoshop in returnil mode or without it.

It take 4 times longer before photoshop swap out data from memory to disk !!!

I work with 100 Mb image files and using filters on it bring the system almost to a standstill,doing the same in returnil mode and everything keeps flying !! ;) <-QUOTE}

Very interesting observation, I would never have thought to use the program this way. Thanks for the tip.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> Very interesting observation, I would never have thought to use the program this way. Thanks for the tip. <-QUOTE}

Consider also use of Ramdisk to speed things up.

Just see how your browser perform in Ramdisk !

[Coldmoon]

Hi crofttk,
{QUOTE-> I have seen Coldmoon mention, however, that memory mode can be risky for larger file operations. <-QUOTE}

This is only related to a previous 1.7x generation Beta that included the ability to save content to disk in memory caching mode. During testing, we discovered a higher risk of file damage than when using the Disk caching mode when dealing with very large files or a large number of concurrent saves with smaller files. As the ability to commit content to disk is not available, dammage to these files will not be due to something RVS does or does not due while in protected mode.

In other words: Using Memory caching mode has the same chance of file damage as not having RVS installed (Ex: cosmic ray zaps that part of your disk, your daughter spills her sippy drink on your laptop, etc ;) )

Mike

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ....In other words: Using Memory caching mode has the same chance of file damage as not having RVS installed (Ex: cosmic ray zaps that part of your disk, your daughter spills her sippy drink on your laptop, etc ;) )

Mike <-QUOTE}Thanks, Mike. I would say the risk of cosmic ray damage is an acceptably low probability! 8)

The other though, I don't know.... sitting on the porch one day with my laptop, the wind blew so hard, it actually blew my cup full of coffee over and onto my laptop keyboard!:o Hopefully, that doesn't happen for another three thousand years or so!:wacko:

[bgoodman4]

{QUOTE-> Consider also use of Ramdisk to speed things up.

Just see how your browser perform in Ramdisk ! <-QUOTE}

Did a bit of reading regarding Ramdisk and am not clear about it. If (for example) I was using it with PhotoShop can I save files to the main drive so they are not lost? From the bit I read it sounds a lot like Returnil in that its using a virtual drive. Are there other differences that would make Ramdisk pref to Returnil for speeding up the PC under intense use applications?

[Coldmoon]

Don't get confused when discussing virtualization as there are many types. RVS and using a RAMDISK are not related other than the fact that creating a disk in RAM is just another form of virtual partition or storage volume. Further, A RAM DISK is only useful when you have the appropriate amount of unused RAM in your system as what you are doing here is to carve out a portion of your RAM to act as though it were a real disk drive.

The benefit of using a RAM disk is the same you would achieve using an SSD: Faster read times that cause programs to work faster when not attempting to write to disk...

Mike

[Huupi]

Well,i have 4 gig Ram installed,i allocate 1,5 gig for Ramdisk,why ? I want to keep photoshop swapfile (scrathdisk) in memory as much as possible.
If photoshop start writing to disk everything slow down,to prevent that i force photoshop to use in the first place Ramdisk,after Ramdisk fill up then it start writing to a fast internal disk (Raptors).
All this is without Returnil,if i use this setup in Returnil mode so pretty much anything happen in memory then my system become a speeddemon. ;D
Even Returnil in ''memory mode'' has to write to disk so this is inevitable but if i use photoshop ''bare'' without this setup then even on small files in no time it start stuttering.
note : this is on a 32 bit windows xp pro.

[crofttk]

I am trying to get one of my laptops cleaned up and thoroughly defragged before I reinstall and retry Returnil where I had some problems in disk mode. Whether the problems recur or not, I will play around with RAM mode to see how it does - however, the laptop has only 2G of RAM and is mostly for browsing, email, word processing.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> I am trying to get one of my laptops cleaned up and thoroughly defragged before I reinstall and retry Returnil where I had some problems in disk mode. Whether the problems recur or not, I will play around with RAM mode to see how it does - however, the laptop has only 2G of RAM and is mostly for browsing, email, word processing. <-QUOTE}

I predict that if you manage to get it up this way,your browser experience would be a revelation !;D

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> I predict that if you manage to get it up this way,your browser experience would be a revelation !;D <-QUOTE}OK, everyone remember, Huupi said it right here in writing! We'll see...:D

[bgoodman4]

{QUOTE-> Well,i have 4 gig Ram installed,i allocate 1,5 gig for Ramdisk,why ? I want to keep photoshop swapfile (scrathdisk) in memory as much as possible.
If photoshop start writing to disk everything slow down,to prevent that i force photoshop to use in the first place Ramdisk,after Ramdisk fill up then it start writing to a fast internal disk (Raptors).
All this is without Returnil,if i use this setup in Returnil mode so pretty much anything happen in memory then my system become a speeddemon. ;D
Even Returnil in ''memory mode'' has to write to disk so this is inevitable but if i use photoshop ''bare'' without this setup then even on small files in no time it start stuttering.
note : this is on a 32 bit windows xp pro. <-QUOTE}

At some point you must save your file to the drive or to some sort of external media. What happens if the PC crashes for some reason? I would guess your work would be lost. Or do you just work in the virtual environment but somehow periodically save the file to physical media? I do a lot of work in PhotoShop as well as CAD work and being able to speed things up, especially in the CAD area, would be wonderful. However if it means risking the loss of hours of work I think I may be better off just being patient.........Would some sort of backup software solve the problem. The sort of backup software that monitors for file changes and then makes a copy to a location of your direction. If you set the backup program to monitor the file on the virtual drive but replicate it to a real drive you should be golden......I think.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> At some point you must save your file to the drive or to some sort of external media. What happens if the PC crashes for some reason? I would guess your work would be lost. Or do you just work in the virtual environment but somehow periodically save the file to physical media? I do a lot of work in PhotoShop as well as CAD work and being able to speed things up, especially in the CAD area, would be wonderful. However if it means risking the loss of hours of work I think I may be better off just being patient.........Would some sort of backup software solve the problem. The sort of backup software that monitors for file changes and then makes a copy to a location of your direction. If you set the backup program to monitor the file on the virtual drive but replicate it to a real drive you should be golden......I think. <-QUOTE}

First thing is to keep backup copies of your files,if anything bad happen or whatever then you can start over without much pain.

If your system crash y'l lose work in progress anyway if not saved to disk.

I don't know nothing about CAD but its always desirable to save changes to disk on a regular basis at a work in progress (this is true for anything done on a computer)

With Returnil its not different other then that the file must be saved to the virt.part or a non system part. or drive.

You can think off these utilities are some kind of extended memory with their main purpose to keep all read/write operations if possible confined in memory,at least i use it that way.

Compare this : disk is like a snail and memory is like a ferrari ! ;D

[bgoodman4]

{QUOTE-> First thing is to keep backup copies of your files,if anything bad happen or whatever then you can start over without much pain.

If your system crash y'l lose work in progress anyway if not saved to disk.

I don't know nothing about CAD but its always desirable to save changes to disk on a regular basis at a work in progress (this is true for anything done on a computer)

With Returnil its not different other then that the file must be saved to the virt.part or a non system part. or drive.

You can think off these utilities are some kind of extended memory with their main purpose to keep all read/write operations if possible confined in memory,at least i use it that way.

Compare this : disk is like a snail and memory is like a ferrari ! ;D <-QUOTE}

Thats sort of what I was thinking. You have to regularly save to a real disk. I was not sure that if you are working on a file on a virtual drive and saving it to a real drive, if there might not be some issues. From the sound of it there is not.

I will have to give your Ram Disk / Returnil idea a try. The CAD work can "stress" the system and if this works as I expect it will it will mean I do not need to upgrade my PC for a while. The latest release of the CAD program is pushing the PC a bit farther than its comfortable going.

Thanks again for the idea,,,,,,oh yes, which Ram Disk program do you recommend?

[Huupi]

there are many of them,paid or free.

I use http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/05/27/free-ramdisk-for-windows-vista-xp-2000-and-2003-server/ its free and no restrictions on size.(gavotte ramdisk.sys),in there is kind of tutorial that explain some.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> there are many of them,paid or free.

I use http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/05/27/free-ramdisk-for-windows-vista-xp-2000-and-2003-server/ its free and no restrictions on size.(gavotte ramdisk.sys),in there is kind of tutorial that explain some. <-QUOTE}Thanks. Got it bookmarked.

[bgoodman4]

{QUOTE-> there are many of them,paid or free.

I use http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/05/27/free-ramdisk-for-windows-vista-xp-2000-and-2003-server/ its free and no restrictions on size.(gavotte ramdisk.sys),in there is kind of tutorial that explain some. <-QUOTE}

Thank you, much appreciated. As soon as I get some free time I will begin to experiment with this idea. Very exciting.