Returnil vs. Sandboxie -- need both?

[BokuNoNinpo]

Hi, I have used Sandboxie and only recently learned about Returnil. After reading the product description, I would like to know two things.

1) Returnil seems like a sandbox for the entire system that auto-deletes the sandbox upon shutdown of the computer. If this is so, how does one retain information that one would like to keep, e.g., newly created documents, downloaded files, etc?

2) Is sandboxie really necessary as a browser protector if one is using Returnil? What would be the purpose of using them together? I like to keep my system as lean as possible and it seems using them both is overkill.

Because I'd ideally just use one of them on my system, your opinions and answers are very welcome. If your comments are persuasive I may use both. I just haven't thought of a reason to as of now. thanks.

[normishmael]

I do use both,and have done away with real-time anti-virus all togather.
with the preium version of Returnil,saving a document or file is as simply as drag and drop,or right click context "save to real disk"
The latest beta even allows right click context option to delete files from the "real" disc.
My real logic for using both,is the "drop my rights" like option in Sandboxie
really seals the gap from the very few malware that are able to defeat Returnil.
There is a thread here that advises a limited user account,and as I am NOT going to do that,and as the "drop my rights" download feels like a hack,and as Sandboxie does the same thing,while adding even more security,and as
both Returnil and Sandboxie run really,really light,for me it just works.

Oh yes,unless Coldmoon can say other wise,I dont thank you can save files etc in the free Returnil version,other than by coping them to DVD,or getting creative/cute and emailing them to yourself,etc.
What ever you decide,they are both great standalone or togather.
You can always just set Sandboxie not to start with Windows,and trim a process and a tiny bit of RAM.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> Oh yes,unless Coldmoon can say other wise,I dont thank you can save files etc in the free Returnil version,other than by coping them to DVD,or getting creative/cute and emailing them to yourself,etc. <-QUOTE}How about a second (i.e. non-system) partition?

Blue

[normishmael]

Over my head,but sounds good.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> Over my head,but sounds good. <-QUOTE}Actually, probably not.

Returnil basically protects the system partition only. If you have a standard Windows install, that would be the C: drive. In a typical situation, that reflects a single physical hard drive on the system as well (let's call it drive 0) which has a single partition located on it (the C: drive that you generally see).

You can create multiple partitions on that single physical drive 0 (say C:, D:, etc.). If you do this, there are actually ways to protect all partitions with the premium product, but the default protection is for C: only, therefore if you want to save stuff, save it to, for example, D:

If you don't wish to muck with partitioning, the most straightforward solution on a single partition system is to use a USB flash drive as needed. It's a lot simpler than email or DVD.

Blue

[Firebytes]

If you need somewhere to save things just allow Returnil Personal (free) to create a virtual partition when you install it, very simple.

[normishmael]

{QUOTE-> Actually, probably not.


If you don't wish to muck with partitioning, the most straightforward solution on a single partition system is to use a USB flash drive as needed. It's a lot simpler than email or DVD.

Blue <-QUOTE}


Yes Sir,that is a heck of a lot more simple.

[Doodler]

I appreciate this thread; the OP echoes my curiosity about Returnil. I've been using Sandboxie (registered version) for about a year now (discovered it and installed it after getting nailed by a zero day exploit). I like SBIE a lot and have grown fairly familiar with it's features and very comfortable with its protection. But the simplicity Returnil offers in being able to easily virtualize one's entire system is appealing...especially when the little kiddies' fingers go romping over the keyboard potentially making all sorts of unwanted changes.

So I've been riding the fence, trying to decide for months now whether or not to install Returnil to supplement SBIE. Like the OP, I struggle with the idea of having both products installed. But, then again, each one is lightweight...so I need to convince myself that it's probably no big deal to have both running.

@ normishmael, I love the way you prefer to keep things simple. We're like minded in that regard.

Anyway, I'll keep monitoring this thread. Hopefully we'll see additional informative input.

[normishmael]

Hi Doodler.
It took me a long time to see the value of simplicity.
Plenty of times my signature looked like the download
list at download.com.

[Coldmoon]

Hi Doodler,
{QUOTE-> So I've been riding the fence, trying to decide for months now whether or not to install Returnil to supplement SBIE. Like the OP, I struggle with the idea of having both products installed. But, then again, each one is lightweight...so I need to convince myself that it's probably no big deal to have both running. <-QUOTE}

They are complimentary as each implements virtualization in different ways with different targets. SBIE is application level and RVS is System level which can be thought of as micro or macro management respectively. Where SBIE is monitoring and sandboxing specific programs as determined by the user, RVS is clonning any/all changes made to the entire System Partition.

Mike

[bgoodman4]

My 2 cents --------- I have been using Returnil and Sandboxie together for some time now and I can assure you you will find no drag on your PC when browsing. Its not like you are running intensive resource use programs when you are using Sandboxie or rather its very unlikely that you will ever do so. After all your browsing the Internet, not running a CAD program or doing illustration work. Running these two light fast programs on todays PCs (and by today I mean most workstations produced as late as 2 to 4 years ago) would not put any system under stain. And best of all the extra layer of protection is a blessing. Combine the two with an imaging program and you have covered yourself as completely as I guess you can.

As I said, just my 2 cents worth.

[EASTER]

As already metioned courtesy Firebytes, theres your protected storage right there. You can create on install the virtual holding tank i call it, and even when in SESSION LOCK or STATIC, your apps are isolated from being discarded and you can access them as usual.

EASTER

[raakii]

yes u need both ......:P

[JustFixIt]

BokuNoNinpo, you took the question right out of my mouth. I too wanted to know the best way to go about DLding items that I want to keep w/o the off/on reboot (I don't have Rnil Prem though.)

But the partition idea sounds very interesting. So just to clarify you can have Rnil protect just where the system OS & registry is located but not have it cover another partition? Or maybe better yet have it cover an entire drive but not the other?

[EASTER]

{QUOTE-> If you need somewhere to save things just allow Returnil Personal (free) to create a virtual partition when you install it, very simple. <-QUOTE}

I was about to say the same thing because RETURNIL RVS offers a fantastic feature at the start to make a Virtual Partition just for that purpose.

But Firebytes beat me to it. LoL

I use it all the time and it's stable, lockable in the Premium Versions, and serves a very useful purpose period.

AS far as running Sandboxie w/ Returnil, i don't see anything really wrong with that if thats your choice, but RETURNIL either in SESSION LOCK or SHADOW MODE pretty much contains if not everything as it was designed to do in the first place.

Memory Virtualization is my favorite. Wonderful Feature Indeed!

EASTER

[Coldmoon]

{QUOTE-> ...But the partition idea sounds very interesting. So just to clarify you can have Rnil protect just where the system OS & registry is located but not have it cover another partition? Or maybe better yet have it cover an entire drive but not the other? <-QUOTE}

Yes and no. RVS will protect the system partition (where the system OS & registry is located) by default but also includes an additional feture that allows you to deny access to other partitions and drives if you want or need to use it called File Protection.

Mike

[lovemedo]

{QUOTE-> Yes and no. RVS will protect the system partition (where the system OS & registry is located) by default but also includes an additional feture that allows you to deny access to other partitions and drives if you want or need to use it called File Protection.

Mike <-QUOTE}

///by default but also includes an additional feture that allows you to deny access to other partitions and drives if you want or need to use it called File Protection.
///

1-where is the additional feture that allows me to deny access to other partitions and drives???? ???

[lovemedo]

Sandboxie is 4 64 bit.

Do u have one 4 32 bit?

:-*
plz i need the link.

////if you want or need to use it called File Protection.////

plz i need the link. :'(

[Doodler]

{QUOTE-> Sandboxie is 4 64 bit. Do u have one 4 32 bit?( <-QUOTE}

No, you've got it backwards. SBIE is not available for Vista 64 bit...only 32 bit. http://www.sandboxie.com/index.php?WindowsVista64

Some older versions of SBIE are available for XP 64 bit, but are no longer supported. http://www.sandboxie.com/index.php?OldVersions

Newer versions of SBIE are for 32 bit.

[Coldmoon]

{QUOTE-> 1-where is the additional feture that allows me to deny access to other partitions and drives? <-QUOTE}

It is the File Protection feature. Open the program and then click the "Change" link to open the list manager where you can add non-system files, folders, partitions, and drives. Please keep in mind that Returnil will see a file and folder as being separate items. This means you should select the files to protect within the folder rather than just the folder itself.

[bman412]

{QUOTE-> This means you should select the files to protect within the folder rather than just the folder itself. <-QUOTE}

Oh boy and I thought simply selecting the folder protects the files nested within :-\ So what then when the folder has subfolders and a considerable amount of files? Add them all one by one? ???

[pegr]

I'm using Returnil Premium and the File Protection feature works for me the way I expected it to. For those partitions and folders that I have set up in the File Protection list, ALL access to nested files and subfolders is automatically blocked without me having to add them individually to the list.

I realise this is not the way Coldmoon describes it so I've double checked and it's definitely how it works for me.

BTW, I also use Sandboxie and the two applications work just fine together.

One improvement I would like to see to Returnil is a check box against each entry in the File Protection list, similar to the way File Manager works, in order to allow individual entries to be temporarily excluded from protection without having to disable File Protection globally across all entries in the list.

In my case, I keep my D: drive (HP recovery partition) protected. I also have a folder within My Documents on my data partition (E: drive) containing confidential data. I would like to be able to selectively enable/disable the protection on my confidential folder whilst keeping the protection on the recovery partition enabled at all times.

Coldmoon: Is it planned to add this in a future version of Returnil?

[Miska]

{QUOTE-> How about a second (i.e. non-system) partition?

Blue <-QUOTE}

I just move files to one of my other 3 hard disks. you can get a small drive for peanuts these days. problem solved. ;)

[Trespasser]

Returnil and Sandboxie are a good combination. Running it right now.

[Dregg Heda]

What exactly does file protection do? I mean does it extend virtalisation protection to non-C drives? So if I file protected all the other drives on my pc they would all be virtualised? Or does it completely deny access to all other drives, so if my d drive is being file protected i cant save any information on it? Also how does file protection vary from full system protection? Thanks in advance.

[pegr]

File protection does not extend virtualisation protection to non-system drives. It prevents read/write access to protected files and folders ... handy if you've got confidential data that you want to lock down. System protection on the other hand allows temporary changes to be made to a virtual clone of the system partition, which by default are discarded on reboot.