The pirate bay

[Nett0pp]

The 4 "main" s0uls behind The pirate bay can get 1 year behind bars vg.no says.
The film and music "Puisness" want 132 million swedish KR (FINE)

Around 10 million have been earned each year on the bay according 2 Stockholm tingrett.

Telen0r the largest ISP in Norway says they will continue 2 let Norwegians download.. :thumb:

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "The 4 "main" s0uls behind The pirate bay can get 1 year behind bars vg.no says.
The film and music "Puisness" want 132 million swedish KR (FINE)

Around 10 million have been earned each year on the bay according 2 Stockholm tingrett.

Telen0r the largest ISP in Norway says they will continue 2 let Norwegians download.. :thumb:" }-

I've been following this trial, the MPAA, RIAA, artists, studios, they all want to win this case badly and for Pirate Bay to shut down. However, due to some of the comments made by the Pirate Bay defendants (one such gem: "Prosecute our users, not us"), the Pirate Bay will be lucky if it doesn't shut itself down due to their former users running off somewhere where they won't get a big knife in the back.

Now I'm not making an argument for/against P2P, but generally when a company throws their users under the bus, those users don't stick around.

[Alcyon]

The Pirate Bay is just a lame public tracker so closing this site will change absolutely nothing!
Elite/private trackers will survive...

[virtumonde]

-{ Quote: "I've been following this trial, the MPAA, RIAA, artists, studios, they all want to win this case badly and for Pirate Bay to shut down. However, due to some of the comments made by the Pirate Bay defendants (one such gem: "Prosecute our users, not us"), the Pirate Bay will be lucky if it doesn't shut itself down due to their former users running off somewhere where they won't get a big knife in the back.

" }-
Such claims i'm sure are not made by TPB staff.
-{ Quote: "
The Pirate Bay is just a lame public tracker so closing this site will change absolutely nothing!
Elite/private trackers will survive...
" }-
Not sure what you mean by lame .TPB are in the front in the battle against internet censorship.I would trust them more than any other public/private tracker .Also on the irc channel mainly, the staff helps as much as it can users regarding infringment letters,or other simillar threats that users from some countries face.I don't know except Demonoid other more helpful comunities and i am a member in most private trackers,although TPB is the one i mainly use.
Just my opinion

[country2]

I really don't see how they can be charged or fined as they don't host the files but gives you a way of finding them. Hell google can be used basically the same way.

I don't condom p2p as it can also be used for legal stuff its up to the users what they want to use it for and is great for sharing spreading stuff that is legal. They can't stop it...warez groups and illegal http sites with direct downloads has now been replaced with P2P sharing and its too big to stop.

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "Such claims i'm sure are not made by TPB staff.

Not sure what you mean by lame .TPB are in the front in the battle against internet censorship.I would trust them more than any other public/private tracker .Also on the irc channel mainly, the staff helps as much as it can users regarding infringment letters,or other simillar threats that users from some countries face.I don't know except Demonoid other more helpful comunities and i am a member in most private trackers,although TPB is the one i mainly use.
Just my opinion" }-


Such claims WERE made by them. If you've been following the trial, you'd be seeing them go from so called "internet defenders" to scared little children willing to throw anyone else to the wolves. I can't blame them for turning though, hell, I wouldn't want to face prison. I see the website being taken offline within the next 6 months at BEST. Just an opinion of course, but it's not too difficult to see where this is heading.

[Nett0pp]

-{ Quote: "The Pirate Bay is just a lame public tracker so closing this site will change absolutely nothing!
Elite/private trackers will survive..." }-


p2p has not really made it easier for the ftp community, 0r what?

TCSP

[Warlockz]

-{ Quote: "The Pirate Bay is just a lame public tracker so closing this site will change absolutely nothing!
Elite/private trackers will survive..." }-

Agree

The pirate bay is more of a playground for people to share and obtain Child Erotica, I could care less if it gets shutdown, I choose to visit other places for my Torrents, such as Demonoid, where they do not allow such content as The pirate bay does!

______________________________________________________________________________

[emmpe]

-{ Quote: "Agree

The pirate bay is more of a playground for people to share and obtain Child Erotica

______________________________________________________________________________" }-
Really "more of"? Have another look. What's the percentage of possible child porn at TPB? How much of that is actually the real thing? I'd say TPB is rather more of everything else than child porn. Some is crap, some is malware infected and yes, some may be child porn - I wouldn't know - but a lot of the stuff is damn good. Like you I really prefer Demonoid for its cleaner habit, but I also have to acknowledge the fact that TPB has played a heroic part in spreading culture to the people. Heck, it was on TPB that I once found the legendary Feynman lectures in PDF and bootlegged audio format. If those guys seem like whining kids it's because their lawyers have told them to. Lawyers can only handle law procedure, and as one of them pointed out, this trial shouldn't have been staged at all. It's just another case of asslicking the US government on the part of the Swedish one.

[Warlockz]

-{ Quote: "What's the percentage of possible child porn at TPB? How much of that is actually the real thing?" }-

I wouldn't know, I never downloaded any to analyze it, You?

[virtumonde]

-{ Quote: "Agree

The pirate bay is more of a playground for people to share and obtain Child Erotica,

______________________________________________________________________________" }-
Please don't make generalizations like that.You don't know what you are talking about.

[emmpe]

-{ Quote: "I wouldn't know, I never downloaded any to analyze it, You?" }-

No, like I said in my post. But I do know that titles that may refer to child porn are pretty rare on TPB, and a recent case, widely publicised in Sweden, turned out to be totally legal and perhaps a frame-up. So it remains a fact that whatever crap they link to they also help people find an enormous amount of valuable stuff - though admittedly there are other trackers that I prefer to use.

[Warlockz]

-{ Quote: "Please don't make generalizations like that.You don't know what you are talking about." }-

LOL I don't know what I'm talking about? I can Generalize in any way I wish, and I will say it again............

The pirate bay is more of a playground for people to share and obtain Child Erotica!

[virtumonde]

-{ Quote: "LOL I don't know what I'm talking about?
The pirate bay is more of a playground for people to share and obtain Child Erotica!" }-

Feel free to claim it as much as you can but that doesn't change the fact you spread LIES.
Again you don't know what you are talking about if you are claiming this

[Warlockz]

-{ Quote: "Feel free to claim it as much as you can but that doesn't change the fact you spread LIES.
Again you don't know what you are talking about if you are claiming this" }-

Do I need to take a screen shot of the picture section and post it for you? why are you so angry about this?

-{ Quote: "The pirate bay is more of a playground for people to share and obtain Child Erotica, " }-

Do you support the sharing of child erotica on torrent sites?

[virtumonde]

You made the following statement "The pirate bay is more of a playground for people to share and obtain Child Erotica!"

TPB has 25 million peers .There are about 3 million registred users .
Adult content is visible only to registred users(unfortunattely do to a design flaw it is possible that one can view the adult content even if not registred .Hovever this is not a known fact or an easy thing to do).
Even if for ex all registred users including uploaders of all sections did this for porn with easy mathemathics you can figure why i said not to generalize.
Regarding child porn i don't know what to say.I mean i don't use secure delete tools.
What are you deleting ?wilders cookies?

[emmpe]

-{ Quote: "LOL I don't know what I'm talking about?[/B][/SIZE]" }-

Well, in your very own words:

-{ Quote: "I wouldn't know, I never downloaded any to analyze it..." }-

Anyway, it seems like we're discussing the wrong issue here. The TPB trial was basically a trial against the Internet, and that's very disturbing.

[dw426]

The child porn thing is BS, I've seen people TRY it, (it was never PROVEN to be that, but they were named in a way that suggested it) but the files were deleted within a few hours. I'm a registered user, so I know. Warlockz,, don't spout off about things you can't prove, seriously. It's a WELL known public tracker, if real kiddie porn shows up there, you can bet some badges are involved (and yes, law enforcement will post kiddie porn as a part of stings).

This went way off topic, but I still say PB has about 6 months before their ship runs aground and they find themselves marooned.

[virtumonde]

-{ Quote: "The child porn thing is BS, I've seen people TRY it, (it was never PROVEN to be that, but they were named in a way that suggested it) but the files were deleted within a few hours. I'm a registered user, so I know. Warlockz, save your breath for something more useful, say, like breathing. It's a WELL known public tracker, if real kiddie porn shows up there, you can bet some badges are involved (and yes, law enforcement will post kiddie porn as a part of stings).

This went way off topic, but I still say PB has about 6 months before their ship runs aground and they find themselves marooned." }-
Even if TPB looses they only have to move the servers.Demonoid had an rellocation issue for about 1 year now they are OK.
Regarding child PORN .Child porn is NOT present or allowed on TPB,and is reported and deleted
There are pics with underaged teens which are not illegal according to swedish law.It's desgusting to see things like that,but TPB will never remove a torrent if it's not illegal (according to swedish law) whatever it may contain.

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "Well, in your very own words:



Anyway, it seems like we're discussing the wrong issue here. The TPB trial was basically a trial against the Internet, and that's very disturbing." }-

Now see, in my opinion people are going a little out of their way to say this trial and others like it are nothing more than attempt to "destroy the internet" or some other ominous thing. The extremism isn't going to help folks, really. There's a war on P2P, no argument there, but the last thing I'd call it is a "trial against the internet". Record companies and movie studios are wrecking the entertainment industry, but it has very little to do with P2P.

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "Even if TPB looses they only have to move the servers.Demonoid had an rellocation issue for about 1 year now they are OK.
Regarding child PORN .Child porn is NOT present or allowed on TPB,and is reported and deleted
There are pics with underaged teens which are not illegal according to swedish law.It's desgusting to see things like that,but TPB will never remove a torrent if it's not illegal (according to swedish law) whatever it may contain." }-

TPB's problem isn't getting shut down by the verdict, it's losing their users after the pathetic finger pointing done by their staff in the direction of their users. They, in the eyes of users, are SUPPOSED to thumb their nose at "The Man" and be "freedom fighters" for the internet. Instead what we got a few days into the trial was the "I only did email support"-type of excuses and a firm stance against the users when they started having visions of small rooms, bars, and men named Bubba in the heads.

That may be perfectly understandable to us with an ounce of logic, but to a huge percent of those millions of users, it's a sellout, and generally people don't care for that.

[Warlockz]

-{ Quote: "Regarding child porn i don't know what to say.I mean i don't use secure delete tools.
What are you deleting ?wilders cookies?" }-

Ever heard of the words general privacy? Not to mention the fact that privacy software is an easy way to clean out all of the obsolete logs and files that just sit and clutter ones machine, which in turn makes ones machine faster and more reliable! why wouldn't I use privacy software if I can do all this with one click of a button, and avoid doing it manually!

To put a false Label on one who uses Privacy software to perform such tasks is just flat out Ignorant!

You don't have to use Privacy software, but then if a day comes where somebody that knows what their doing breaks into your house and jacks your machine, I guess that would have to be your bad not mine!
__________________________________________________________________________________________

As for porn, the porn section is closed to non registered users, I was talking about the picture section, Hello? "teens"? I guess if that's what you want to call a 10 year old in panties, then ok?

My conversation was about, "I could care less if The Pirate Bay gets shut down, because of the fact they allow users to share Child Erotica Torrents on their site!" Why would I support a site that supports pedo's by allowing them to share child erotica?

Its not my fault people got all but hurt when I said
-{ Quote: "
The pirate bay is more of a playground for people to share and obtain Child Erotica, " }-

god forbid the issue be known on a well known security forum :o

Its just an Opinion people, don't let it ruin your lives, common now;)

When I asked the question
-{ Quote: "Do you support the sharing of child erotica on torrent sites?" }-

You could have simply said "NO", The Pirate Bay is a good site, I do not agree with some of the content posted their though! It was a yes no question, not a war flame
___________________________________________________________

[virtumonde]

-{ Quote: "TPB's problem isn't getting shut down by the verdict, it's losing their users after the pathetic finger pointing done by their staff in the direction of their users. They, in the eyes of users, are SUPPOSED to thumb their nose at "The Man" and be "freedom fighters" for the internet. Instead what we got a few days into the trial was the "I only did email support"-type of excuses and a firm stance against the users when they started having visions of small rooms, bars, and men named Bubba in the heads.

That may be perfectly understandable to us with an ounce of logic, but to a huge percent of those millions of users, it's a sellout, and generally people don't care for that." }-
This is very unpleasant but i don't know how to take it.Where do you get this info from?Transcript of the trial?
By all means i hope that not from an online"independent"review!!!

[demonon]

Please let all stop arguing, wilderssecurity is a security forum and nothing more.
IMO closing TPB won't stop or slow down file sharing at all.
There are enough of other trackers and methods. By the way, I really don't think file sharing results in that much loss to the media industries.

[emmpe]

-{ Quote: "Now see, in my opinion people are going a little out of their way to say this trial and others like it are nothing more than attempt to "destroy the internet" or some other ominous thing. The extremism isn't going to help folks, really. There's a war on P2P, no argument there, but the last thing I'd call it is a "trial against the internet". Record companies and movie studios are wrecking the entertainment industry, but it has very little to do with P2P." }-

The Internet functions by indexing and linking and one part of the trial was to decide whether that is illegal. It just so happens, conveniently, that Big Money (and obviously the US government) has an interest in the matter as well, but at the bottom of it all the legality of the Internet is questioned. For the sake of democracy, let's hope it's just a matter of technological ignorance on the part of legislators.

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "This is very unpleasant but i don't know how to take it.Where do you get this info from?Transcript of the trial?
By all means i hope that not from an online"independent"review!!!" }-

No it isn't from reviews, it's from transcripts and other sources involved in the trial.

To Emmpe: I actually understand your point, but the main purpose is to shut down file sharers. It wouldn't be very beneficial to the entertainment industry to try to kill the internet when they are making deals to put their shows on the web and their music. The internet is basically the only thing they have left because radio and tv as we know it, are both dead.

[emmpe]

-{ Quote: " It wouldn't be very beneficial to the entertainment industry to try to kill the internet when they are making deals to put their shows on the web and their music. The internet is basically the only thing they have left because radio and tv as we know it, are both dead." }-

Agreed, but it's not a question of closing the Internet, rather of gaining total corporate and governmental control: Corporations want to "offer services to consumers", turning the whole web into a store, and governments want to be able to shut uncomfortable people up and stop this exchange of opinions and ideas that goes on all over the world. Whether intentionally or not, the TPB trial serves these purpouses, but it ain't over yet.

[TOMxEU]

-{ Quote: "By the way, I really don't think file sharing results in that much loss to the media industries." }-
Well, that is quite right. The most people can not afford to buy it, so there is no money loss, but on the other hand, the popularity of such content increases, so the company can actually benefit from it. But by "trialing it" people can find out, that it is a junk, so it can affect reviews as well and have the adverse effect. I myself allways "trial" a movie before I buy it, so I have seen about thousend movies, but only bought 56 and that is the point, if the companies would not produce mostly junk these days, they would not worry about money. If there was a legal way to do it, I would, but there is not and will not be, unless quality increases.

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "Well, that is quite right. The most people can not afford to buy it, so there is no money loss, but on the other hand, the popularity of such content increases, so the company can actually benefit from it. But by "trialing it" people can find out, that it is a junk, so it can affect reviews as well and have the adverse effect. I myself allways "trial" a movie before I buy it, so I have seen about thousend movies, but only bought 56 and that is the point, if the companies would not produce mostly junk these days, they would not worry about money. If there was a legal way to do it, I would, but there is not and will not be, unless quality increases." }-

It's not about junk records and films (though I certainly agree 95% is crap), it's about the entertainment industry being afraid of the internet or blowing it off as a means to make money. The bigwigs of the entertainment industry don't seem to understand they are sitting on a goldmine, if only they would stop trying to worry about DRM first instead of worrying about making a deal with the various internet websites that would benefit all 3 parties (entertainment industry, the websites, and the users).

If they spent as much money, time, and creativity on making deals as they do going after P2P users, they could have been raking in cash by the truckloads for years already. Until they understand what they have if they would just use it, P2P will stay strong and the entertainment industry will literally cease to exist in the next few years. Combine the state of the economy and their inability to see past the "evil P2P" part of the internet, and you've got an impassable roadblock.

[TOMxEU]

Exactly. Selling online can cut prize by half, so everyone would benefit from it, but they are scared or what?! So far pirates sell music/movies and earn millions. ::)

[emmpe]

Let's not forget the big software vendors. Some of them don't really expect us ordinary guys to pay. Look at the price tags of Photoshop, Maya or Autocad. Still those apps remain crackable, because they are industry level stuff, average home users are a non-market and "piracy" will strengthen the position of the products on the actual market. Or take the vendors of sample libraries. They never offer proper trial versions, yet they can't possibly believe we're willing to pay without knowing what we're paying for. (If they do, they're too stupid to deserve any rights). So filesharing is very good for some branches, but I maintain that p2p is not the main issue here.

On another note, who said anybody has an exclusive right to make a living as a musician, actor or writer? Do nurses, factory workers, welders, carpenters or bus drivers have corresponding rights? No way. According to capitalist ideals, since culture is a matter of producing goods to be sold at a profit - that is, just another branch of industry - artists should compete on the labour market like everyone else and take what jobs they can get, right? It's not harder on them than on my 400 workmates who'll have to go at the end of March. (Not that I endorse this view, mind you. Pure logic, that's all). Music, art and litterature exist independently of entertainment industry anyway.

[LockBox]

Worrying about The Pirate Bay pointing to child porn and saying they should be shut down for that alone is ridiculous. First of all, TPB follows the laws of most all countries when it comes to child porn. They delete blatant CP, as they should. Kids in clothes? Maybe they don't - but that's not child porn in most countries. That debate at PB is getting old. So many trying to shut it down for a fraction of what's on there.

I say use The Pirate Bay for your own purposes and leave it alone. It's like a magazine stand, you don't have to buy Penthouse or any of the porn, just buy your Newsweek or Sports Illustrated and be on your way.

[Warlockz]

I never said it should get shut down, I said I could care less if it does get shut down :wacko:

[LockBox]

-{ Quote: "I never said it should get shut down, I said I could care less if it does get shut down :wacko:" }-

I was actually agreeing with you. Sorry if you misunderstood.

[ronjor]

Several off topic posts have been removed.

Personal attacks and off topic posts should be reported rather than engaging in "did to, did not" type posts between members.

[lotuseclat79]

Pirate Bay Announces IPREDATOR Global Anonymity Service (http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-announces-ipredator-global-anonymity-service-090323/).

As the online battle against file-sharers heats up with governments and ISPs forced into the arena, those opposed to being monitored are investigating counter-measures. Soon the Pirate Bay team will introduce IPREDATOR, a service that promises to make global Internet users more anonymous than with existing VPN services.

-- Tom

[guest]

Ok... now really... I don't have the time to read the whole topic now... But from what I saw, a lot of you are using that kind of sites to download illegal content ...

Aren't we in a security forum??? Isn't it the worst place to talk about that kind of stuff??

Those places are filled with illegal things, porn, viruses, worms and everything you can think of...

Now, we are in a security forum, so I assumed that the people here were concerned by security... And from what I saw, a lot of you are using that kind of things...

And the forum admins don't care?...

That kind of make me think that this forum might not be the place I thought it was...

[Pinga]

-{ Quote: "TPB has played a heroic part in spreading culture to the people. Heck, it was on TPB that I once found the legendary Feynman lectures in PDF and bootlegged audio format." }-
That's a very important point you're making, one that is not often heard in this grab vs. share debate. There are many ways in which digital distribution of content benefits and enriches our culture, as several studies have shown.

[virtumonde]

-{ Quote: "

Those places are filled with illegal things, porn, viruses, worms and everything you can think of...

" }-
I thought worms at least ware legalized.Mind me

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "That's a very important point you're making, one that is not often heard in this grab vs. share debate. There are many ways in which digital distribution of content benefits and enriches our culture, as several studies have shown." }-

Try getting that past the RIAA, MPAA, and half the judges in the American judicial system....even though I actually agree with that point.

[emmpe]

-{ Quote: "Those places are filled with illegal things, porn, viruses, worms and everything you can think of...

Now, we are in a security forum, so I assumed that the people here were concerned by security... " }-

What's illegal isn't necessarily immoral, and the concept of "security" could be taken to include general Internet issues as well - after all Internet has the potential of becoming the first worldwide democratic breakthrough and is definitely the first decisive progress in information technology since the time of Gutenberg. I'm convinced that the defence of Internet freedom should be part of security considerations. And by the way, TPB, like most trackers, isn't the plague-ridden hell's hole some people imagine.

-{ Quote: "Try getting that past the RIAA, MPAA, and half the judges in the American judicial system...." }-

In the spirit of TPB: may they all go do something indecent to their behinds. Kids today download a cracked ProTools and buy a cheap M-Audio soundcard and start making music. Then, by and by, at low costs and together with friends, they assemble fully functional recording studios. With such facilities, and with YouTube, MySpace and a host of blogs and forums for promotion, with various means for distribution over the web and with more money going to live gigs, musicians just don't need record industry any more. Maybe we're not quite there yet, but we're close, very close. Movie making is a quite different thing, but quite recently a full length movie made with a cell phone played in Swedish theaters. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a development similar to that of music recording in some future, considering the price of digital cameras and the availability of good, cracked editing, animation and FX software.

It's plain stupid to think you can negotiate with the juggernaut of history, and those who try deserve to - and will - perish.

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "What's illegal isn't necessarily immoral, and the concept of "security" could be taken to include general Internet issues as well - after all Internet has the potential of becoming the first worldwide democratic breakthrough and is definitely the first decisive progress in information technology since the time of Gutenberg. I'm convinced that the defence of Internet freedom should be part of security considerations. And by the way, TPB, like most trackers, isn't the plague-ridden hell's hole some people imagine.



In the spirit of TPB: may they all go do something indecent to their behinds. Kids today download a cracked ProTools and buy a cheap M-Audio soundcard and start making music. Then, by and by, at low costs and together with friends, they assemble fully functional recording studios. With such facilities, and with YouTube, MySpace and a host of blogs and forums for promotion, with various means for distribution over the web and with more money going to live gigs, musicians just don't need record industry any more. Maybe we're not quite there yet, but we're close, very close. Movie making is a quite different thing, but quite recently a full length movie made with a cell phone played in Swedish theaters. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a development similar to that of music recording in some future, considering the price of digital cameras and the availability of good, cracked editing, animation and FX software.

It's plain stupid to think you can negotiate with the juggernaut of history, and those who try deserve to - and will - perish." }-

You brought up something good, that musicians don't need the recording industry anymore. That may very well be the reason behind the lawsuits, the "3 strikes" deals being signed onto by various ISPs, colleges being forced to spend money and resources doing the RIAA and MPAAs' jobs. It may very well be that these organizations are this centurys' dinosaurs desperately trying to avoid the asteroid.

The music industry, well, their asteroid has landed, they just are in a state of shock and denial. For the movie studios, they may have some time left on the clock. It could very well be though that the days of 20+ million dollar contracts just for an actress/actor to show up on the set and 100+ million dollar budgets are numbered. Here in the States, one can never tell, one minute everyone is jumping on the "this is good for everyone, so let's do this" bandwagon, the next minute they hop back on the train to "Me-Ville".

[emmpe]

-{ Quote: " It may very well be that these organizations are this centurys' dinosaurs desperately trying to avoid the asteroid." }-

Exactly.

-{ Quote: "...Here in the States, one can never tell, one minute everyone is jumping on the "this is good for everyone, so let's do this" bandwagon, the next minute they hop back on the train to "Me-Ville"." }-

Looks very familiar.

Anyway, this somewhat OT discussion seems to confirm that the Pirate Bay issue is partly about mankind's right to access its own cultural heritage and therefore about users's right to the internet, which for the moment is a more urgent question. Since the web isn't a producer/consumer thing, but is rather continually recreated by its users for its users, it belongs to its users, and that's the only way it makes sense. But in the wake of the **AA organisations' desperate struggle to squeeze out the last few bucks, and using their demands as a pretext, governments and big corporations are moving to gain control of information and markets. Yes, we may yet be able to dodge restrictions, but it seems like we could end up with the same neverending strike/counterstrike situation that prevails on the malware frontier, and a lot of people and just causes will be badly hurt by the abuse of internet surveillance that's bound to occur. That's why I maintain that the TPB crowd is doing its fair share of internet freedom defense, and that's also why this thread belongs here on Wilder's, but in the long run I don't think the problem can be solved by clever soft-/hardware countermeasures - it's an entirely political matter calling for some joint, massive and partly AFK action.