PDA

View Full Version : Is Anyone Using Anti-Executable v.3x?


Rmus
January 28th, 2009, 02:21 AM
Several months ago I was on Faronic's web site looking at some papers in their Content Library. While on the site I checked a couple of the Products pages and noticed on the Anti-Executable (AE) page that some descriptions were missing. One was the reference to 80+ executable file types that AE watches out for. I didn't think about that very much at the time, but recently I had occasion to evaluate this latest edition of AE.

Here are descriptions from the AE2 User Guide followed by that in the AE3 User Guide:

v.2
-{ Quote: "Whitelist refers to the list of authorized executables created when Anti-Executable is installed.

Authorized executable or authorized program means any executable file already present on a workstation
at the time of the Anti-Executable installation, or any executable file installed while Anti-Executable is
turned off. All authorized executables are included on the whitelist." }-
v.3
-{ Quote: "Anti-Executable allows administrators to create a list of all the permissible applications on a machine.

White List: A list of executables, or folders containing executables, that are managed by Anti-Executable.
Any application that has one of the following extensions: .scr, .jar, .bat, .com, or .exe." }-Do you notice any difference?

Now, I will attempt to run a non-White Listed program, AstroExp.exe.

First, AE2:

205846

Then, AE3:

205847

Do you notice any difference?

A bit of history. Years ago I became disillusioned with the reliability of Anti-Virus products. An acquaintance got a virus while using AIM. The AV was a reputable one and up to date. Shortly thereafter variants of the viruses were reported, undetected by most AV in the early days.

I began reading different articles and came across the product, Abtrusion Protector. It claimed to verify all executable file types, and any others that tried to install were blocked. That opened the door to the concept of execution protection and White Listing. Another product that was more interesting was FreezeX - the predecessor of Anti-Executable. I installed an evaluation version of it and emailed Faronics Support with loads of questions. I was put in contact with the project manager and he informed me that they were phasing out FreezeX for a better product, Anti-Executable. It had just come out of Beta Testing and wasn't scheduled to be released for a couple of more weeks, but he was happy to send me a copy to evaluate. I thanked him and told him that I was also interested in Process Guard.

While I didn't evaluate Process Guard, I was following with interest the discussions on the forum here at Wilders. Especially the long thread on rundll32.exe. Everyone was unsure how to configure it:

• Let it run all of the time:
-{ Quote: "I use 3.15 and I have had to give rundll32.exe full priveledges. If I don't do this the computer won't function properly. (XP Pro)." }-

• Let it run once:
-{ Quote: "I have it set to permit once as it usually only gives me one pop up. I'm still not clear though what the ikely risk of rundll32.exe is; Can a website execute maliceous code on your machine using rundll32.exe if you merely click on something?" }--{ Quote: "The simple solution to the problem is :
- don't allow rundll32 to "execute always"
- don't give rundll32 any special privileges by default
- live with having to read a few prompts every now and again" }-I decided I didn't want any part of having to make decisions as to what to allow. The problem, as I saw it, was not with rundll32 but with the file it executes.

I wrote the AE Project Manager about this, and questioned him about one part of the AE tutorial video they had at that time:

-{ Quote: "Q- In the tutorial, one of the programs tried to load a .dll and was blocked. Does this mean that Anti-Executable scans for all .dll files as well as .exe files on the workstation when installing? (that's quite impressive) because Process Guard does not do this because of the immense task of building a list of dlls.

A- Yes it does, - it will block unauthorized .dll files when set on high security." }-Of course, I shortly learned that it blocks all unauthorized executable file types. From the AE2 User Manual:

-{ Quote: "The High level of security does the following:

• Blocks unauthorized 32-bit executables
• Protects Anti-Executable Enterprise directory from access and tampering
• Blocks unauthorized drivers and .dll files
• Allows optional enabling of Copy Prevention and Delete Prevention
" }-So, AE2 it was.

So what has changed in AE3? No longer does AE watch over all file types, rather, it selects just five. To its credit, AE retains some type of code analysis, because I changed several EXE types to BGT, TMP, and they were blocked. So spoofing of EXE still doesn't get by AE.

But what about rundll32 and the executable file types that it handles. Here is a CPL - a Control Panel Applet.

With AE3 installed with NO White List configured, it will prompt when any EXE attempts to run:

205851

Now, an AE user is put in the same predicament as one with Process Guard. AE has changed from Default-Deny to Prompt-for-decision. In the configuration, you can designate "External" users (those not trusted nor Administrator) so that they can not allow. That is fine for a multi-user workstation. But for a single-user as Administrator, you have to make a decison. The only one is, of course, to put rundll32 on the White List. Otherwise you will be prompted all of the time. Search in the Registry for rundll32 and see how much it is used.

AE2 on the other hand doesn't care anything about rundll32 as long as it opens an authorized (White Listed) file. Otherwise it blocks:

205852

AE3 watches the application. The same as Process Guard (PG). AE2 watches the file. Big difference in approach. Of course, PG is an early prototype of HIPS and does more things. AE is interested only in blocking unauthorized executables.

Continued next Post.

Rmus
January 28th, 2009, 02:26 AM
A poster in the Process Guard thread mentioned the danger of rundll32.exe and DLL files.

Here is AE3 - rundll32 is not White Listed, so it throws up an alert:

205857

If I 'Allow and add to the White List' the hnetwiz.dll wizard loads.
Note that rundll32 is being added, not the DLL file, yet this executable file runs anyway:

205858

With AE2, run32dll.exe is on the White List but the DLL file is not, so it is blocked:

205859

Again, AE2 doesn't care about rundll32 as long as the executable file it opens is on the White List. In fact, when I attempted to copy this DLL from my flash drive to \System32, AE2's Copy Prevention blocked:

205860

AE3 has removed Copy Prevention. AE2 describes it thus:

-{ Quote: "Copy Prevention: When Copy Prevention is checked, executables cannot be copied to another location,
downloaded via the Internet, or copied to the workstation from removable media. This helps reduce
accumulation of unauthorized or copied executable files, including files in the Internet Temp folder." }-You can argue that Copy Prevention is in the 'nice to have' category, since an unauthorized executable can copy to disk, yet still be blocked from running. Nonetheless, I've found it a very useful function.

Faronics has certainly changed what used to be one of the most unique Default-Deny security products ever developed. Some of the changes -- multiple/editable White Lists for example -- I'm sure came from user requests.

AE2, upon installation, scans the entire system and creates one global White List. I've heard complaints about that, referring to how long it takes. AE3 installs instantly with no White List and the user has to create her/his own.

Frankly, in the home environments where I've recommended AE, I don't know how the general user could understand what to do with AE3 and manually creating White Lists.

I recently read a glowing review of AE3 by an education Administrator. The 'Allow and Add' option would be available to the Administrator only, not to the students (external users). Perhaps this is the type of market that Faronics has in mind for AE, and that the standard five executable file extensions are adequate for White Listing, since very few programs would need to be White Listed. From the web site:

-{ Quote: "Anti-Executable’s ability to enforce total compliance provides absolute peace of mind. Organizations benefit from productive user sessions each and every time, while IT personnel are guaranteed that computers are compliant with acceptable use policies, regulatory requirements, and software deployment schedules.

Discover how Anti-Executable applies to your environment:

Education -- Corporate/Government -- Libraries" }-No mention of Home. Too bad


----
rich

Longboard
January 28th, 2009, 02:50 AM
V.Interesting post Rich.
Thankyou.

Any copies of V2.x anywhere ??
You still have your contacts ??

Pitching at 'console' and 'enterprise' and 'central management', all the catch words for "no $$ in the desktop" for this really interesting app.

Rmus
January 28th, 2009, 03:29 AM
Hi Longboard,

I'm in contact with Faronics about several issues, and I'm going to ask if they would consider continuing to offer AE2 Standard (home) even though it is not Vista-compatible. My guess is they will not want to continue with an older product.

I would not trust acquiring AE or Deep Freeze from any source other than Faronics. Not only is it illegal, but pirated copies of DF have caused problems in the past, as I've noticed around the internet.

Yes, the Enterprise editions of both with the maintenance packages are the money makers. But it is worth it for the institutions.

----
rich

aigle
January 28th, 2009, 05:44 AM
Too bad. AE 3 is far far inferior to AE 2. Who will like to use AE3 now. It has become like a typical HIPS and yet inferior in choices.

Faronics people are so wise?::) I just wonder.

Meriadoc
January 28th, 2009, 06:05 AM
Indeed, and why I stay with ae2.

Osaban
January 28th, 2009, 07:35 AM
AE v3 had a pretty bad start: On my Vista system (talking around May-June of last year) I couldn't even install it properly, when rebooting the system for the first time I couldn't even reach the stage of seeing the desktop, the system would hang forever. I had to use an image twice to get me out of troubles.

I must say that support is really good. After informing them of my disaster, they offered to pay for express courier in order to get an image of my system so that they could study why this was happening. I declined, as I was too busy at the time, but also I had lost interest in it.

In September they informed me that a new improved version was available and they had tested it with similar hardware as my computer (very nice indeed, I think they really care about their customers). I tried it and I like it very much, the new window giving you the choice to allow or block and add to the white list was very practical, you could check your white list, change it, save it etc.

I think that if you wanted to use it as AE V2, you could indeed, although reading Rmus post it looks like it's not as restrictive as the old version. The reason I haven't kept it (I do have a license) is that it wouldn't allow FirstDefense PC Rescue to work properly, even disabling AE. Now I 'm not entitled to a new version unless I pay for maintenance, so I gave it it up.

I also dislike nowadays to investigate why things are really happening, so virtualization and imaging are making my life easier.

HURST
January 28th, 2009, 08:44 AM
What would ErikAlbert think about this?

Sorry, couldn't resist, I miss his posts...

Back on topic, it's very sad what Faronics is doing with AE. This was a great tool for thos who don't have XP Pro and no acces to SRP.
I used v2 for about a month and really liked it, had no problems whatsoever...

Dark Star 72
January 28th, 2009, 11:36 AM
I too tried AE v3 but dropped it because it no longer has a Default-Deny option.
However both Returnil 2.0.1.8510 beta Anti-Execute and Executable Lockdown have settings options for 'Ask' or Default-Deny. Returnil creates a visible White List and Black List so if any action gets terminated it is easy to move it to the White List. But, it is VERY sensitive. Switched on my printer and had to approve four pop-ups to allow it to run! Executable Lockdown appears more docile, perhaps more intelligent, no visible White List but has a black list. Both when password protected require admin to approve any actions.
It would need someone more knowledgeable than me to test these out but I would be very surprised if anything got past Returnil Anti-Execute.

chris2busy
January 28th, 2009, 11:51 AM
actually...SRP by default has only 30 designated file types on block control..ae2 had 80 or so..yeah,thats ~266% more file types..i tried to find them all a while back,but was too lazy for it :D
would be truly lovely if anyone could paste them :)

chris2busy
January 28th, 2009, 11:53 AM
-{ Quote: "I too tried AE v3 but dropped it because it no longer has a Default-Deny option.
However both Returnil 2.0.1.8510 beta Anti-Execute and Executable Lockdown have settings options for 'Ask' or Default-Deny. Returnil creates a visible White List and Black List so if any action gets terminated it is easy to move it to the White List. But, it is VERY sensitive. Switched on my printer and had to approve four pop-ups to allow it to run! Executable Lockdown appears more docile, perhaps more intelligent, no visible White List but has a black list. Both when password protected require admin to approve any actions.
It would need someone more knowledgeable than me to test these out but I would be very surprised if anything got past Returnil Anti-Execute." }-
it does ...just put your user out of AE administration group...(right)ctrl+alt+shift+F10 to bring the options tab up

HURST
January 28th, 2009, 12:50 PM
-{ Quote: "actually...SRP by default has only 30 designated file types on block control..ae2 had 80 or so..yeah,thats ~266% more file types..i tried to find them all a while back,but was too lazy for it :D
would be truly lovely if anyone could paste them :)" }-

compiling from
1.- http://pcsupport.about.com/od/tipstricks/a/execfileext.htm
2.- http://antivirus.about.com/od/securitytips/a/fileextview.htm

A6P: Authorware 6 Program
AC: Autoconfig Script
ACR: ACRobot Script
ACTION: Automator Action
ADE - Microsoft Access Project Extension
ADP - Microsoft Access Project
AIR: Adobe AIR Installation Package
APP: FoxPro Generated Application
APP: Symbian OS Application
AS: Adobe Flash ActionScript File
AWK: AWK Script
BAS - Visual Basic Class Module
BAT: Batch File
CGI: Common Gateway Interface Script
CHM - Compiled HTML Help File
CMD - Windows NT Command Script
COM: DOS Command File
CPL - Control Panel Extension
CRT - Security Certificate
CSH: C Shell Script
DEK: Eavesdropper Batch File
DLD: EdLog Compiled Program
DLL - Dynamic Link Library
DO* - Word Documents and Templates
DS: TWAIN Data Source
EBM: EXTRA! Basic Macro
ESH: Extended Shell Batch File
EXE: Windows Executable File
EZS: EZ-R Stats Batch Script
FKY: FoxPro Macro
FRS: Flash Renamer Script
FXP: FoxPro Compiled Source
GADGET: Windows Gadget
HLP - Windows Help File
HMS: HostMonitor Script File
HTA: HTML Application
ICD: SafeDisc Encrypted Program
INF - Setup Information File
INS - Internet Communication Settings
INX: Compiled Script
IPF: SMS Installer Script
ISP - Internet Communication Settings
ISU: InstallShield Uninstaller Script
JAR: Java Archive File
JS: JScript Executable Script
JSE - JScript Encoded Script File
JSX: ExtendScript Script File
KIX: KiXtart Script File
LNK - Shortcut
MCR: 3ds Max Macroscript File
MDB - Microsoft Access Application
MDE - Microsoft Access MDE Database
MEM: Macro Editor Macro
MPX: FoxPro Compiled Menu Program
MS: 3ds Max Script File
MSC - Microsoft Common Console Document
MSI - Windows Installer Package
MSP - Windows Installer Patch
MST: Windows SDK Setup Transform Script
OBS: ObjectScript Script File
OCX - ActiveX Objects
PAF: Portable Application Installer File
PCD - Photo CD Image
PEX: ProBoard Executable File
PIF - Shortcut to MS-DOS Program
PIF: Program Information File
POT - PowerPoint Templates
PPT - PowerPoint Files
PRC: Palm Resource Code File
PRG: Generica Program File
PVD: Instalit Script
PWC: PictureTaker File
PY: Python Script
PYC: Python Compiled File
PYO: Python Optimized Code
QPX: FoxPro Compiled Query Program
RBX: Rembo-C Compiled Script
REG - Registration Entries
RGS: Registry Script
ROX: Actuate Report Object Executable File
RPJ: Real Pac Batch Job File
SCAR: SCAR Script
SCR - Screen Saver
SCRIPT: Generic Script File
SCT - Windows Script Component
SHB - Document Shortcut File
SHS: Shell Scrap Object File
SPR: FoxPro Generated Screen File
SYS - System Config/Driver
TLB: OLE Type Library
TMS: Telemate Script
U3P: U3 Smart Application
UDF: Excel User Defined Function
URL - Internet Shortcut (Uniform Resource Locator)
VB - VBScript File
VBE - VBScript Encoded Script File
VBS: VBScript File
VBSCRIPT: Visual Basic Script
WCM: WordPerfect Macro
WPK: WordPerfect Macro
WS: Windows Script
WSC - Windows Script Component
WSF: Windows Script File
WSH - Windows Scripting Host Settings File
XL* - Excel Files and Templates
XQT: SuperCalc Macro File


106 filetypes. I filtered the repeated ones, sorry if I missed some.
BTW, I once found a website which claimed to have ALL executable extensions listed. When I arrive home I'll check if I bookmarked it.

chris2busy
January 28th, 2009, 01:09 PM
You are just lovely :D
Gonna have to do a little trimming myself too :) can't have SRP blocking .doc and having to run them only as admin to read them :D nt smart

Dark Star 72
January 28th, 2009, 03:22 PM
-{ Quote: "it does ...just put your user out of AE administration group...(right)ctrl+alt+shift+F10 to bring the options tab up" }-

Thanks for that :thumb:
Must read the help file a bit better next time, or get some new glasses ;D

Longboard
April 24th, 2009, 10:38 AM
Ok just to revive this thread for a minute if I may: spurred on by another thread...
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=233634

All in aid of 'trimming the fat"
Wanted to check with Rmus re AE2 v AE3:
-{ Quote: "Hi Longboard,
I'm in contact with Faronics about several issues, and I'm going to ask if they would consider continuing to offer AE2 Standard (home) even though it is not Vista-compatible. My guess is they will not want to continue with an older product." }-
CAn AE3 be jigged to function like V2??
Anyone had further experiences with AE3??

?? Rich..

Rmus
April 24th, 2009, 12:13 PM
-{ Quote: "CAn AE3 be jigged to function like V2??" }-It can be Default-Deny if you don't run as the Administrator. You would have to set up user accounts for others who use your computer, or the potential for someone permitting malware is present.

Other features cannot be changed, eg:


you create your own white list

you can't add executables other than the five (no DLL for example)


A new version 3.2 was just released; I may look at it to see if there are any other changes, but none of any significance for the home user were mentioned in the release notes.

----
rich

demoneye
April 28th, 2009, 07:43 AM
new /latest AE conflict with SB , make it not loading properly

Osaban
April 28th, 2009, 08:24 AM
-{ Quote: "new /latest AE conflict with SB , make it not loading properly" }-
They have acknowledged the conflict though, no mention about First Defense PC Rescue, but I'm no longer interested in having AE anyway.
The attachment is an excerpt from the new AE release notes.

Acadia
April 28th, 2009, 08:39 AM
Good grief, what on earth did Faronics do to AE? I have AE version 2 and it works great with SandboxIE and First-Defense (original classic).

Acadia

Dregg Heda
April 28th, 2009, 08:47 AM
Hi guys, anyone have any experience with Returnil's AE or Executable lockdown? Any other similar products out there that I can check out?

controler
April 28th, 2009, 09:08 AM
Hello

If I remember right, Faronics products were originally created for the public environment. I am guessing the home line was not cost effective and they decided to keep targeting the public, schools ect?

I think products like PG SSM ect were all to nonuser friendly for average home users. Don't you agree? If a product is going to be cost effective for home use, it needs to be simple and with a minimum of pop ups. Of course that doesn't set well with most types that frequent these type forums.

slangen
May 3rd, 2009, 11:59 PM
Hey guys i got my hands onto a copy of AE v2.3. I got two questions.

1. is there any malware which has managed to get past AE? i know that a scripting exploit would work, but what exactly does work mean? i mean it won't be able to install something so on reboot its all gone right?

2. does anyone have the help file.... ;D


thanks

Peter2150
May 4th, 2009, 08:15 PM
-{ Quote: "Hey guys i got my hands onto a copy of AE v2.3. I got two questions.

1. is there any malware which has managed to get past AE? i know that a scripting exploit would work, but what exactly does work mean? i mean it won't be able to install something so on reboot its all gone right?

2. does anyone have the help file.... ;D


thanks" }-

I think before anyone answers this the question "I got my hands on a copy" means what. Faronics no longer sells this version.

Pete

slangen
May 4th, 2009, 10:54 PM
oopps... ;D


anyways, i got my answers. dontcha love the 'search' function. ::)

sorry about that.