Destroying a HDD

[HURST]

Just found this (http://driveslag.eecue.com/) website which reminded me this (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=184920) thread (unfortunately too old to reply)

[EASTER]

-{ Quote: "Just found this (http://driveslag.eecue.com/) website which reminded me this (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=184920) thread (unfortunately too old to reply)" }-

If you want to destroy and wipe it just install all the malwares you can find and let them bug it to no return. Then use ERASER or/and another program that wipes the drive so aggresively like DBAN or WIPE DRIVE PRO (Shareware) or HDDERASE (Freeware) that completely pulverizes whatever was on it and is unrecoverable.

Make sure first that you clean Index.dat files and use Shellbags from Nirsoft and CleanAfterMe newest version that writes random then zeroes.

RevoUninstaller also deletes deleted files followed by RESTORATION " Delete Completely" and then Indext.dat cleaner and/or CCleaner latest FIRST!

That leaves nothing but deleted $MFT files locked to the system, but theres methods to flush those off too. Disable pagefile, reboot, wipe again, then re-enable afterward if you also want to eliminate tracks useage.

You have plenty of available apps (most free) that can successfully scrape the data platter for destruction of leftover data, just Google them.

Use the great (freeware) TESTDISK app to try and see if anything is still lodged afterwards.

Hope that helps some for you.

EASTER

[dw426]

Why not just use DBAN, run maybe 2 wipes, then take the drive apart, break the platters, put the whole thing in a small bag with some heavy rocks, and sling it in your nearest big body of water? Forensic folks can't even try to recover the data if they don't even know where the drive is.

[markoman]

EASTER's method is just an overkill.
All you need to do is download DBAN, create a bootable CD and boot your PC with it. Make sure you select the right hard disk you want to wipe and start a 1-pass erasing. If you wanna e paranoid, use the 3-pass method.

After this, if you are going to throw the hard disk away, hit it with a hammer until it opens apart.

No one will undelete your data after it has been totally overwritten once (this is if you have a recent hard disk, of course).

[zfactor]

yup ^^^ i agree... i overwrite everything with a once over and then smash it or take the lid off and crush the platters.. etc..

[ragnarok2012]

If speed is the most important factor, then a sledgehammer would be the fastest way to completely destroy a Hard Drive.

Most people have a sledgehammer rather than a degausser I would think. It would take an average sledge hammer 20 to 30 seconds tops, (faster than an oxy-acetylene torch which would be the sure fire way to destroy and keep anyone from even knowing that a hard drive was destroyed).

Software-wise the gig rate per minute would determine the winner (then followed by a sledgehammer).

[burning_chrome]

Encrypt the unwanted hard drive using TrueCrypt, wipe it using Darik's Boot & Nuke Hard Drive Eraser, soak it in a bucket of saturated salt water, and then take a screw driver to it for complete dismantlement.

FTR, I'm just restating methods I've read here on Wilders and elsewhere.
The TrueCrypt/DBAN approach was really a novel one: securing wiping using X-number passes of 256-bit AES encrypted data.

[EASTER]

Do all the above suggestions then throw it into the river. Mission Accommplished 8)

[Searching_ _ _]

If it is total putrification of data,
Method 1
bury it some thermite with a long fuse, stand about 20 yards away and watch the fireworks.
Method 2
Get a hold of an HHO Welding Torch (will cut through refractory brick and melt tungsten)
Method 3
5 gal Home depot bucket; 1 gal brick wash or muriatic acid or concrete etching solution or sulfuric acid. Allow to sit for 2 weeks. then neutralize with baking soda. before discarding.
Or if you want to keep the drive,
Method 4
Use HDDErase from an Intel CPU, data putrified drive still usable.

Personally, I prefer method 4.

[stapp]

Give it to my next door neighbour's dog.

It seems to be doing a very good job of destroying my fence.

[Fly]

What about Webroot's Window Washer ?

I know the company isn't exactly popular here, but I have it (older version), and it SEEMS to be effective.

[TechOutsider]

I put a computer by the dumpster, everything intact.

Nothing happened. The computer wasn't there next day; probably someone.

[LockBox]

-{ Quote: "I put a computer by the dumpster, everything intact.

Nothing happened. The computer wasn't there next day; probably someone." }-

???

Could you pass around a little of what you're having?

[EASTER]

Open the case lid, pour some MURATIC ACID on the platter. Allow to cure for a hour 8) , then take it to a factory that destrips metal during their break time that you know, that drive is history.

EASTER

[Warlockz]

Wow this must be one of those threads where everyone has to be joking right?

LOL, the older HDs you can use a 3 wipe algorithm and supposedly be safe according to Bruce Schneier, but his paper is old and out of date!

The newer Harddrives you need to use at least a 7 wipe algorithm like Bruce Schneier's algorithm!

I use Acronis® Drive Cleanser® 6.0 and it works great, and I guarantee no one will ever be able to recover any data Period after using Peter Gutmann's algorithm!

http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/drivecleanser/index.html

You can also use Active@ KillDisk - Hard Drive Eraser, this one is free!

http://www.killdisk.com/

All of those Story's about recovery after properly wiping a HardDisk is just that, some paranoid freak being paranoid, LOL

But I guess if it dies on you, you really have no other choice but to smash it! if your so paranoid of getting in trouble for your activities using your HD, you would probably want to Microwave, or melt it down in one way or another!

[Bob D]

Unless your HDD contains national defense info, i.e.: nuclear launch codes / targets, I wouldn't worry much.
-{ Quote: "If speed is the most important factor, then a sledgehammer would be the fastest way to completely destroy a Hard Drive." }-
Agreed. Many safety sensitive recyclers crush or drill holes in them.
IF someone will ill intent comes across a mechanically mauled HDD, and IF they spend a lot of time, effort and money to recover the data, chances are all they will recover (on the vast majority of computers) are pictures of the family cat and the kid's school report on Vasco da Gama.

[markoman]

Warlockz,
I don't know where you are getting your info from, but probably some unreliable source.
Overwriting data ONCE on a modern hard drive is enough to make it impossible to recover. If you are paranoid, go for a 3-pass wipe.

I dare you to find ANY company that will recover data that has been overwritten once.

[Woody777]

I Would take it to the Garage. Find my largest Drill install it into my Drill Press & Drill a Series of random Holes in it. Maybe follow up by hitting it with my 20 oz Carpenters hammer.

[Warlockz]

-{ Quote: " Warlockz,
I don't know where you are getting your info from, but probably some unreliable source.
Overwriting data ONCE on a modern hard drive is enough to make it impossible to recover. If you are paranoid, go for a 3-pass wipe.

I dare you to find ANY company that will recover data that has been overwritten once." }-


I guess Ive been relying on Peter Gutmans Paper, but now that I have googled more on the subject, all I see is post after post saying data cannot be recovered after being overwritten, so why does the government have a 7 Pass Wipe Algorithm if data is unrecoverable after 1 pass?

I wrote an email to "i365" and asked them this question!

"I was wondering if it is possible to recover Data from a HardDrive that has been "completely overwritten" with a "single-pass" sanitize method, that overwrites all disk data with random characters (patterns). by a Bootable HardDrive eraser software?

Thank you for your time and I hope to be hearing from you ASAP! "

And the site said "Thank you for your online inquiry. A i365 Client Consultant will respond to your inquiry within a business day's time."

I will give you the answer as soon as I receive their return message! If I receive a return message ???

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

If you have a Linux CD handy, boot then from console:

shred -vfz -n X /dev/hdX or /dev/sdX

where x is the number of passes.

Or

wipe /dev/hdX or /dev/sdX

Where default is 4 and you can change it if you must ...

Or

Manually, repeat a few times if you must:

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdX or of=/dev/sdX

Or

dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/hdX or of=/dev/sdX


Make sure you don't wipe the wrong one ... oh-oh.

Cheers,
Mrk

[TechOutsider]

The hydralic press terminated a terminator.

[HURST]

-{ Quote: "The hydralic press terminated a terminator." }-

LOL, best comment so far ;D ;D


Maybe put a .50 armor piercing bullet through it.

EDIT: speaking of .50 and hard drives...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XosOy8sv1sI

[TechOutsider]

Maybe a desert eagle. Just make sure it doesn't bounce back at you

[Warlockz]

They replied with they need the HardDrive to determine if they can get any data back Bla Bla Bla.

"However, as this is a clear case of data overwriting using algorithm, I am not sure if we'll have success in this case. So, I advise you to call us at : 1-800-475-0143, dial option #2. "

So basically theirs a possibility, but not likely available to civilians!

Never know, might just be the government misleading people in 100s of threads so that people think they are safe using 1 pass, sure would make their jobs easier for them if everyone was so golable! Funny how all of the sudden data is impossible to recover after 1 pass, after reading so many articles that say otherwise in the past, sounds more like a matter of National Security to me!

If I had something I really wanted to hide I would stick with a 7 wipe pass regardless of what people have to say on the net!

I take it as another way of deception, like "PGP has a backdoor", wouldn't want people to continue using solid Encryption now would they?

http://www.philzimmermann.com/EN/faq/faq.html

I really don't have anything else to say in this matter, I guess its really your own choice on how secure you think you really are!

But yes you can rely on the 1 pass if your just trying to stop software recovery tools, + its faster and easier on the HD if you know what I mean!

[Klaus_1250]

-{ Quote: "I guess Ive been relying on Peter Gutmans Paper, but now that I have googled more on the subject, all I see is post after post saying data cannot be recovered after being overwritten, so why does the government have a 7 Pass Wipe Algorithm if data is unrecoverable after 1 pass?
" }-
It CAN be recovered after a single pass, but not easily. You need serious soft- and hardware for that. The reason large number of multiple passes are used by governments and such is for protection against future recovery methods and the chance that there is someone a lot smarter than they imagined, which could recover it.

[Meriadoc]

HDDErase or Active@killdisk one pass zero. If a disk has very sensitive data then it has to go a custom setting with killdisk using 7 pass - Bruce Schneier (http://www.schneier.com/index.html).
-{ Quote: "You can also use Active@ KillDisk - Hard Drive Eraser, this one is free!" }-
Does a good job - free for zero single pass.

Noticing the 'overkill' and 'paranoia' comments which is probably true at home, in a business and customer environment there are 'rules' that govern data including destruction which is one reason there are standards, for example it maybe a requirement with insurance that a certain destruction method is used.

[TechOutsider]

Just drop the HDD in a river/ocean/sea. That way, they can't prove you destroyed the drive, which may raise some suspicions.

[Nitewolf]

Interesting topic. I'm wondering if there is a truly definitive answer to this. I've tried researching this subject numerous times and for as many searches I've done there's as many different answers to the question. It would seem to me the best anyone can do is to make it totally impracticable of extraordinarily expensive for anyone to be able to recover data that's been overwritten. Techniques using magnetic detecting microscopes would leave me to believe that ANY data IS recoverable given enough time and money to do so. Too bad misinformation is a key weapon in keeping this subject controversial.

[markoman]

-{ Quote: "Techniques using magnetic detecting microscopes would leave me to believe that ANY data IS recoverable given enough time and money to do so." }-

What exactly makes you believe this? Cause I am ready to bet that even with the most advanced "magnetic detecting microscope" it would be extremely hard (read it impossible) to retrieve data that has been overwritten.

[Warlockz]

-{ Quote: "What exactly makes you believe this? Cause I am ready to bet that even with the most advanced "magnetic detecting microscope" it would be extremely hard (read it impossible) to retrieve data that has been overwritten." }-


Overwritten how many times is the question, I still place my bet on 7 wipe pass to be safe! That is if you really have something you want to hide

[Nitewolf]

Well, of course this is only my opinion. I haven't seen any information or solid proof that data can't be recovered from the most sophisticated hardware/software available to government agencies or law enforcement. Computer forensics is growing in leaps and bounds and I personally do not believe that the authorities are ever going to give anyone the straight goods on what they can and can't do. I do agree however, that data overwriting can make it pretty much impractical or too costly to retrieve. If you wish to call that making it impossible then you're entitled to your opinion. I'm certainly not a physicist but from what I understand, magnetic signatures written to a disk remain on the disk until enough time has elapsed to degrade that magnetism to nothing. (I'm supposing on the order of thousands of years?). How deep can the most sophisticated piece of equipment read that signature? I really don't know. How shredded and fragmented does data have to be in order for it to be 100% impossible to recover? I don't know that either but given that us peons are never told the whole truth and given that authority governing bodies love to mix fact with disinformation leads me to believe on the side of caution. As fast as something new appears on computer technology it's almost obsolete in short order.
Call me paranoid if you want to but as I said, I have found nothing on the web to indicate to me that overwriting data will 100% positively keep a super machine from finding it if you got the time and money to do so.

[markoman]

Nitewolf,
my field is not in particular computer forensics, and I am not in any governmental agency, but if you read the famois Gutman's article about recovering overwritten data from magnetic support, you will notice that such recovery is possible because there is a "shadow" left when you overwrite data. I will try to explain myself better:

If on your hard drive you have a 1 (Positive) and you write a 0 (negative), the magnetization level will be higher than a 0 written on a 0. Such difference can be noticed only by very sofisticated equipment. And this is true with old technology hard disks. New and more dense hard disks are much harder to examine.

Please refer to Gutman's article and similar for precise explanation.

[Nitewolf]

Thanks for the heads up and I will definitely have a look at that article. It could well be my paranoia is getting in the way of reason but with the way technology is gaining ground faster than a lot of people can grasp, maybe I'm suffering from an over abundant imagination :wacko: . They can't see through your roof from space yet...... can they? ;D

[Nitewolf]

Maybe I'm missing something or Gutman wrote another article with new information but his conclusion is as follows on this page http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/sec96/full_papers/gutmann/

To quote:
"Data overwritten once or twice may be recovered by subtracting what is expected to be read from a storage location from what is actually read. Data which is overwritten an arbitrarily large number of times can still be recovered provided that the new data isn't written to the same location as the original data (for magnetic media), or that the recovery attempt is carried out fairly soon after the new data was written (for RAM). For this reason it is effectively impossible to sanitise storage locations by simple overwriting them, no matter how many overwrite passes are made or what data patterns are written. However by using the relatively simple methods presented in this paper the task of an attacker can be made significantly more difficult, if not prohibitively expensive."
end quote.

As I read what he stated in the paper, if a PC's read/write head is slightly misaligned off track to the previous data, that data is still reasonably readable. To what standards are mass produced PC's made? Disk errors happen frequently. He also states that the length of time data is stored on the disk also has a bearing in whether or not the overwrite process would be successful.

[SystemJunkie]

-{ Quote: "HDDErase or Active@killdisk one pass zero. If a disk has very sensitive data then it has to go a custom setting with killdisk using 7 pass - Bruce Schneier." }-Agree.
-{ Quote: "Encrypt the unwanted hard drive using TrueCrypt, wipe it using Darik's Boot & Nuke Hard Drive Eraser," }-Yes. The story with salt water and hammer is overkill in most situations.;D ;D

Make several encryptions and 5 up to 10 time 1 pass with different tools and/or random letters.

[markoman]

-{ Quote: "Maybe I'm missing something or Gutman wrote another article with new information but his conclusion is as follows on this page http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/sec96/full_papers/gutmann/

To quote:
"Data overwritten once or twice may be recovered by subtracting what is expected to be read from a storage location from what is actually read. Data which is overwritten an arbitrarily large number of times can still be recovered provided that the new data isn't written to the same location as the original data (for magnetic media), or that the recovery attempt is carried out fairly soon after the new data was written (for RAM). For this reason it is effectively impossible to sanitise storage locations by simple overwriting them, no matter how many overwrite passes are made or what data patterns are written. However by using the relatively simple methods presented in this paper the task of an attacker can be made significantly more difficult, if not prohibitively expensive."
end quote.

As I read what he stated in the paper, if a PC's read/write head is slightly misaligned off track to the previous data, that data is still reasonably readable. To what standards are mass produced PC's made? Disk errors happen frequently. He also states that the length of time data is stored on the disk also has a bearing in whether or not the overwrite process would be successful." }-

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutmann_method):

In the time since this paper was published, some people have treated the 35-pass overwrite technique described in it more as a kind of voodoo incantation to banish evil spirits than the result of a technical analysis of drive encoding techniques. As a result, they advocate applying the voodoo to PRML and EPRML drives even though it will have no more effect than a simple scrubbing with random data. In fact performing the full 35-pass overwrite is pointless for any drive since it targets a blend of scenarios involving all types of (normally-used) encoding technology, which covers everything back to 30+-year-old MFM methods (if you don't understand that statement, re-read the paper). If you're using a drive which uses encoding technology X, you only need to perform the passes specific to X, and you never need to perform all 35 passes. For any modern PRML/EPRML drive, a few passes of random scrubbing is the best you can do. As the paper says, "A good scrubbing with random data will do about as well as can be expected". This was true in 1996, and is still true now.

[TechOutsider]

Who would pick you from the 6 billion people in the world and spend a fortune of recovering data from your drive?

[normishmael]

-{ Quote: "Who would pick you from the 6 billion people in the world and spend a fortune of recovering data from your drive?" }-

I don't Know! But "They" are out there! You know those little round white
things they put in Asprin bottles?
They say they are to absorb moisture.
HA!!
Dang old Homing beacon! "They" can zip a AGM-114 Hellfire right into your
medicine cabinet,and say your dang old water heater exploded!

[strangequark]

anyone who has tried to recover lost data on HDDs knows there is a simple equation that tells you what is recoverable and what isn't ............ Photos of the neighbours dog half out of shot = 100% recoverability; Really important data that you can't live without = 0 - ½% recoverability. If that ½% worries you then I'd give the HDD to a child under 5 years of age, preferably male, they are known to be able to destroy anything on the planet as the makers of Pelican cases are well aware going by their Lifetime guarantee
-{ Quote: " This guarantee is void if the Pelican™ product has been abused beyond normal and sensible wear and tear. This guarantee does not cover shark bite, bear attack or damage caused by children under five." }- :o

[Warlockz]

-{ Quote: "Agree.
Yes. The story with salt water and hammer is overkill in most situations.;D ;D

Make several encryptions and 5 up to 10 time 1 pass with different tools and/or random letters." }-

Why make several Encryptions? and 5 up to 10 time 1 pass with different tools and/or random letters? Really, you would be wasting hours of your time!

Just choose an Algorithm that fits your needs!

Wiping algorithms are kind of like Encryption, as in the majority of them generate random data!

Example

-{ Quote: "Bruce Schneier offers seven pass overwriting algorithm in his Applied Cryptography book. First pass overwrites all disk data with 0xFF patterns, second pass with 0x00 patterns, and then five times with a cryptographically secure pseudo-random sequence." }-

[SystemJunkie]

-{ Quote: "Just choose an Algorithm that fits your needs!" }-
No just make your own algorithm and for free.

[EASTER]

If it's really needed to go to the extreme, pour some sulfuric acid inside the case over the platter and not even the Hubble Telescope could ever put Humpty-Dumpty back together again. ;D

[Page42]

I've always heard that it's not a matter of if but when a HD will go bad... so just keep using it, and soon nothing will be recoverable. :P

[Warlockz]

-{ Quote: "No just make your own algorithm and for free." }-

Lets see your very own algorithm? and the software you used that was free?

-{ Quote: "I've always heard that it's not a matter of if but when a HD will go bad... so just keep using it, and soon nothing will be recoverable." }-

LOL not really, I guess if you ignore the fact the HD can be dismantled, and read!

I use backup drives, then I really don't have anything to worry about when It comes to loosing data on a drive that has been heavily used, I have already gone thru 3 drives, 1 was enough to get me to go and buy a couple backup drives for all of my important data.