Size of snapshot ??????

[RogerNL]

Have just started using FirstDefenseISR and am surprised to see that the size of the first snapshot is so large.
The harddisk is 250GB with 126GB used space, and the first snapshot is estimated to be 116GB.
Any advise/thoughts/experiences on how to deal with this.
Asking because now am trying to make the second snapshot and the program says that there is not enough space.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Have just started using FirstDefenseISR and am surprised to see that the size of the first snapshot is so large.
The harddisk is 250GB with 126GB used space, and the first snapshot is estimated to be 116GB.
Any advise/thoughts/experiences on how to deal with this.
Asking because now am trying to make the second snapshot and the program says that there is not enough space. <-QUOTE}

That's about right. You need to assume your second snapshot will be almost the same size as your first. No way around that.

Pete

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Have just started using FirstDefenseISR and am surprised to see that the size of the first snapshot is so large.
The harddisk is 250GB with 126GB used space, and the first snapshot is estimated to be 116GB.
Any advise/thoughts/experiences on how to deal with this.
Asking because now am trying to make the second snapshot and the program says that there is not enough space. <-QUOTE}
Did you use the function "re-calculate" ? The size mentioned on the screens isn't always correct.
You can also reduce the size of the snapshots, by anchoring the folder "My Documents", which contains all your data.

[RogerNL]

Thank you all fo you quick answers.

Still do not understand this sizing.

Example:
My harddisk is 250GB of which I use 120.
How come the snapshot the pgm estimates is so large that it does not fit anymore?
This means I can only make 1 snapshot.
This cannot be right, can it?

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Thank you all fo you quick answers.

Still do not understand this sizing.

Example:
My harddisk is 250GB of which I use 120.
How come the snapshot the pgm estimates is so large that it does not fit anymore?
This means I can only make 1 snapshot.
This cannot be right, can it? <-QUOTE}

OK. More in detail.
Suppose your data (My Documents) = 110gb and your system (Windows + Applications) = 10gb.
After installing FDISR, the first snapshot = 110gb + 10gb = 120gb and your second snapshot will be also 120 gb.

If you don't anchor "My Documents", your data will be included in each snapshot.
First snapshot = 10gb + 110gb = 120gb.
Second snapshot = 10gb + 110gb = 120gb
The total size = 120gb + 120gb = 240gb

If you anchor (= exclude) "My Documents", your data will not be included in the snapshots.
First snapshot = 10gb
Second snapshot = 10gb
The total size = 10gb + 10gb + 110gb = 130gb

You see the difference ? 240gb vs. 130gb
So you better anchor (exclude) "My Documents" and then you will have space enough. :)

You will find "Data Anchoring" under Tools.

[sukarof]

{QUOTE-> Thank you all fo you quick answers.

Still do not understand this sizing.

Example:
My harddisk is 250GB of which I use 120.
How come the snapshot the pgm estimates is so large that it does not fit anymore?
This means I can only make 1 snapshot.
This cannot be right, can it? <-QUOTE}

It is the way it is supposed to be with this software. Your original installation is 120 and the snapshot will be about 120 too maybe a bit smaller if you use compression. (120*2=240GB= 1 snapshot on a 250GB drive)
To be able to use all the 10 snapshot I can make (even though I have never had that many snapshots) I have C: as the system partition with only the OS and maybe a couple software installs, and all other software installations on another drive/partition. That way the snapshots are about 8GB each (that's Vista, half of that on my XP snapshots) it is much more convinient that way, I guess your snapshot creation/updates takes very long time?

[RogerNL]

Thank you all very much for your replies. This helps.
So all folders that contain my data need to be "anchored", so they will not be copied in each snapshot.
Great, that will work.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Thank you all very much for your replies. This helps.
So all folders that contain my data need to be "anchored", so they will not be copied in each snapshot.
Great, that will work. <-QUOTE}
That is correct.
ISR = Immediate System Recovery. FDISR is there to protect your system (Windows + Applications), not your data.
The volume of your system is quite stable, while the volume of your data grows constantly, not always but that depends on the user.
Normally all your data files are stored under "My Documents" organized in subfolders. So you have to anchor only one folder.

Other users, including me, separated system and data.
1. System Partition[C:] = Windows + Applications + FDISR without anchoring.
2. Data Partition[D:] = documents, spreadsheets, emails, email-address-book.
Users with only one harddisk, created two partitions. I have two harddisks : one for system and one for data, which is safer.
If you have many graphical files, you might even create a Video Partition, because these files are very large.

If the separation is complete, you can do whatever you want with your system partition without being worried about your data.
For testing I often replace my system partition with a total different system and after testing I restore my current system. My data is still there, because it's on another partition.
I need this because I have only one computer, no test computer.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> Thank you all very much for your replies. This helps.
So all folders that contain my data need to be "anchored", so they will not be copied in each snapshot.
Great, that will work. <-QUOTE}

Yes,but make backups of your anchored data also !;)

[RogerNL]

Thank you all for your answer again.

Where are the "snapshot" files stored?

Is it possible to make a new "Primary Snapshot"?

When my "Program Files" folder is 12Gb in size, does it get "snapshotted" in all snapshots? Or just in the "Primary Snapshot"? And changes/additions in updates snapshots?

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Where are the "snapshot" files stored? <-QUOTE}
In the folder "C:\$ISR", which is invisible, unless you change the folder options in Windows.

Before I answer any other questions, I would like to know which FDISR you are using.
I also like to know HOW FAR you are with FDISR ? You don't tell us much.

[RogerNL]

Ok.

Am using FirstDefenseISR - full version on a Vista Business loaded laptop.

I was using FirstDefenseISR a couple of yeas ago on a previous machine, when it was still sold by Raxco. And I was real satisfied in using it. It saved me a couple of times when the machine crashed and/or got corrupted.
Various times I have looked if it was availabl again bacuse I want to use it again.
Then fortunately I saw the message in this forum in which the new version is made available again for previous users.
So I sent en email and very quickly I got an answer with the download link and my new license code.
So I downloaded and tried it. This was yesterday.
But, since using it i the past things have changed. I now have a 250Gb disc in my laptop and am uing many more applications, so the "program files" folder is much bigger than before.
So the size of the snapshot is much bigger than before. First this surprised me. But now, after the answers that have been posted, I undrstand much better.
I am now in the process of settig up a 2nd partition to wich I am moving all my "data" folders and picture folders, so the "c" partition will only contain sytem and application information.
Btw, I have first uninstalled the FirstDefenseISR application and am now doingthe setting up and moving into the new partition.
After that I will install FDISR again. At this point I will be able to see what size the new snapshot will be when it will only contain systema dn application info.

Question: if data and picture files are on the 2nd partition do i still have to "anchor" them or does FDISR only look at the "c" partition?

Hope this sattisfies your comment about "not telling enough".

[Acadia]

FDISR only notices the c:partition, so you will be OK. :)

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
Question: if data and picture files are on the 2nd partition do i still have to "anchor" them or does FDISR only look at the "c" partition? <-QUOTE}
No anchoring needed anymore, because FDISR only works for the 1st partition [C:] which contains now only Windows and Applications.
FDISR ignores the 2nd partition completely and any other partition.

The primary snapshot is your daily WORK snapshot, while the secondary snapshot is your rescue snapshot, in case something goes wrong in your primary snapshot.
Of course at the end of the day and after cleaning your primary, you have to copy/update from primary to secondary snapshot, to keep your secondary snapshot up-to-date.
Do you have any backup solution ? Software ? External HDD ?

[Peter2150]

Also since you have the full version you might want to take a look at archives. That way once you build your second snapshot you can strip it down.

Pete

[RogerNL]

Yes, am using an external disk for complete cloning.

Thank you all for your answers!

[Teknokrat]

{QUOTE-> <snip>
The primary snapshot is your daily WORK snapshot, while the secondary snapshot is your rescue snapshot, in case something goes wrong in your primary snapshot.
<snip> <-QUOTE}

I thought we (you) had agreed on NOT making it sound as if your solution is the way FD-ISR is used? This way of using FD-ISR may be what work best for you, but please refrain from making it sound as if your setup is the way the program is meant to be used in general. I know that you are aware of the many ways it can be used, just be aware that a (fairly) new user might misinterpret your post as some kind of general instruction.

You can take credit for leading me in on this path. After all you are the one who have promoted FD-ISR everywhere in this forum ;)
I actually managed to get hold of a valid, legitimate license (through a friend) so I am SO happy to finally have a copy of the "old" (but updated) original program. Yay!

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> I thought we (you) had agreed on NOT making it sound as if your solution is the way FD-ISR is used? This way of using FD-ISR may be what work best for you, but please refrain from making it sound as if your setup is the way the program is meant to be used in general. I know that you are aware of the many ways it can be used, just be aware that a (fairly) new user might misinterpret your post as some kind of general instruction.
<-QUOTE}
The way I explained how to use FDISR is the recommended way of FDISR itself, that is how FDISR starts : creating primary snapshot and asking for a secondary snapshot, any other way is an improvisation of the user.
So I don't see what your problem with my explanation is or you must be a beginner yourself, who doesn't know how FDISR starts. You first have to catch up an arrear of 2 years of experience, before I will learn something new from you regarding FDISR. ;)

[wilbertnl]

Welcome RogerNL,

I would like to contribute with some different thoughts, which might work for you.
Since it seems that disk space is the challenge for you and you do have external storage, you might consider creating an archive on the external drive. Or export the snapshot to a NTFS compressed folder on the external drive.

In case of disaster recovery, you would reinstall Windows, reinstall FD-ISR and restore the archive from external into a new snapshot and then boot into that new snapshot. Disaster solved.

A feature that might interest you is the empty snapshot. The empty snapshot is used to install Windows from scratch without losing your exisiting snapshots. No doubt that a fresh installation will be small (1.5 GB?) and you would be able to archive and restore that too.
This small snapshot could function as your rescue snapshot. In case of disaster and the need to recover from archive: boot into 'small snapshot' and restore the archive to your 'Big snapshot'.

The archiving feature might be more valuable for you than maintaining multiple copies of large snapshots on your laptop, even with archoring enabled.
If you like to maintain a second/third/fourth snapshot for entertainment (testing/evaluating/gaming), you could do that probably without all these applications, meaning in a smaller snapshot.

Again, I just want you to offer a different approach. :)

[Longboard]

@rogernl
wilbert has very nicely encapsulated some core features of FDISR pro
:thumb:

some secret NL society ??

You have a lot of disc space taken up: surely some files et al can be moved?
Housekeeping :blink:
Sounds like you might do a lot of work with power graphics to have such huge usage
try the compression feature with less video/graphics files in "C".

[Teknokrat]

{QUOTE-> You first have to catch up an arrear of 2 years of experience, before I will learn something new from you regarding FDISR. ;) <-QUOTE}
If you can be bothered to read my post thoroughly you will hopefully find that I indeed was not trying to teach you anything about FD-ISR, but anyone can make a mistake so it's OK, really.::)

Oh, and if you thought the procedure you suggested with "daily WORK snapshot" and how you're supposed to be "cleaning your primary" "at the end of the day" comes from the instructions on how to use FD-ISR it may be about time you took another look in the manual.

{QUOTE-> ...any other way is an improvisation of the user <-QUOTE}
That's funny, even the old manual describes a vast array of examples on how to use FD-ISR. I can't seem to find the one you describe though.:dry:

regards,
T

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
That's funny, even the old manual describes a vast array of examples on how to use FD-ISR. I can't seem to find the one you describe though.:dry:

regards,
T <-QUOTE}
The OP had a problem with the volume and that's why he couldn't copy/update the primary to the secondary snapshot. The normal solution within the possibilities of FDISR itself, is to anchor the folder "My Documents", but there is also another solution to solve this, like separating system and data. That is not my choice, that's the OP's choice.
I'm not forcing any method to anyone like you say. I'm just offering possibilities. Do you really think I care how a user uses FDISR ? I only care about my computer like everybody else.
If you can do better, do it instead of discussing me.

[Teknokrat]

::) I thought we were discussing the methods you suggested (and subsequently the claims they were taken from the description on how to use the program)?

I admit I was OT when I thanked you for helping me discover FD-ISR. But then so was you when you decided to pull ranks based on your 2-year long experience vs my newbie-status.

It's difficult to question what you say without mentioning anything about you, but I agree - all this has indeed to do with how to use the program. Your advise was great, except for the part where your personal preference slipped through as if it came straight from the manual. I can't "do better" - it has nothing to do with doing better. Feel free to suggest that your method of using FD-ISR is a good one. Just make clear it is your personal preference.

{QUOTE-> Do you really think I care how a user uses FDISR ? <-QUOTE}
Well, I do hope so. Why else would you bother to help anyone?

regards,
T

[ErikAlbert]

The manual of FDISR is out-of-date and sometimes even confusing. I already explained how I use FDISR like any other regular member in this forum.

[Teknokrat]

Now I am confused, so when you say "the recommended way of FD-ISR itself" you don't refer to the manual (or the internal wizard?) because they are outdated? How can they be outdated? The manual can potentionally be confusing for a new user but it's even more confusing when you first claim your advise is recommended by the manual and/or the built-in wizard, followed by telling you don't care how other users uses FD-ISR, ended with saying that the documentation is out-of-date?

There is no problem following the manual at my end. In fact, I think the manual is great. Of course I am not forced to follow the steps described because, as we already agreed on, the ways FD-ISR can be used are limited only by the users imagination. Which part of the manual (covering the basic setup, which we discuss in this thread) do you consider being out-of-date? Both the OP, me and everyone else using FD-ISR would benefit from your report on what is outdated. I am sure Todd also would appreciate your input in this matter.

regards,
T

[Leapfrog Software]

I agree, I would like to know where the manual is confusing as well. I realize that we paint a single scenario on how to use the product. I *think* that should be enough to get the user started without overwhelming them. This product is so open ended on its uses; I think it would be difficult to encapsulate everything.

In our experience, we typically find users tend to read short manuals, and skip large manuals only to access as reference guides from time to time.

Now, with that being said let me also say that I could have have missed the boat on the product manual. It may be way off on how folks our using the product here at Wilder’s or the best way to educate a new user.

For those that have time to kill, I send out this challenge to take a stab at creating a better manual. We could even post a contest for everyone to vote on the one they like the best. I would even be willing to think about including it in the next release.

I would love to see what folks come up with. You can generate as much or little text and screenshots as you like.

You all have my email, so don’t post it here, email it to me.


Btw: RogerNL, if you would like to talk further about the product (Although you are probably set since you got some excellent answer by these folks) you have my phone number (on the FDISR release email).

[ErikAlbert]

I had the old manual in mind. The manual of the latest version looks better after a fast reading. I'm not going to re-read a manual in detail of a software, I know already for 2 years.
My setup with ShadowProtect and FDISR is finished since September 2007, I can't improve it anymore. I like to spend my time on something else and there are no new users of FDISR anymore, because FDISR is terminated. So this subforum became very quiet. FDISR Rescue is too simple to get my attention. :)

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> I would love to see what folks come up with. You can generate as much or little text and screenshots as you like. <-QUOTE}
That sounds like a great invitation and I'm sure interested in contributing some time and thoughts to a new document.
Based on my own experience I would say that I grab a software manual when I face a challenge that I don't understand.

From my memory I would say that not the features of FD-ISR are hard to comprehend, but the concept of 'live' snapshots (which is totally different from the concept of disk images)

I have a question though, which release of FD-ISR did you have in mind for the customer-written documenation?

[Leapfrog Software]

It would be for the features in this last release of FD-ISR v3.31.232.

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> It would be for the features in this last release of FD-ISR v3.31.232. <-QUOTE}
The only thing is that I'm about to take off for spending 7 weeks with my family in The NetherLands.

[Leapfrog Software]

Sounds nice. Take me with you!

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> Sounds nice. Take me with you! <-QUOTE}
You're in my laptop! :thumb: