PROPOSAL: (old/full) FD-ISR WS Edition [Archive]

holymoly

July 9th, 2008, 10:21 AM

Todd and Gang - My first post here...I've signed up as I can't take it anymore...you're killing me!

I came across references to (Raxco) FirstDefense last year when I was looking for ways to have a better backup system in place....I didn't quite understand what the heck it did at the time, so I went on and then things became busy and I stopped looking for that ultimate "system backup" solution.....until just recently where I've been back searching. Of course I had all my data files backed up...but not my system, so that was the one thing once I had to install Windows again.....I told myself..."that's it...I've got to find the ultimate system backup solution...this is B.S.!" >:(

Step 1 - I just recently bought Terabyte's bundle package and imaging via "Image for Linux" and so far that's working beautifully and I can sleep better at night.

AS WELL....I've been reading and reading everyone's posts here at Wilders on FD-ISR and having trialed the "Rescue" version over the last days - I tell you...I LOVE THIS PROGRAM!! It's already saved my ass a number of times. That's when I realized....all the guys here at Wilders pushing for FD-ISR are/were right....this is one heck of a program.

NOW....I'm supremely jealous of all of you who talk of the older version with archive and freezing ability (Erik - you only make it more hard on us!). I don't know what to do now. I would gladly pay for the Rescue version if that is the only choice I have, BUT the $295.00 version is way too hefty for an above-average home setup.

The big question here is: If there are folks that are willing to spend more than that (say around $70.00 - $100/120-ish), are you willing to sell to us?

The one thing that I think is missing in all this....is a middle-tier price product. You have the "Server Edition" - $295.00 version and the $39.95 "everyone else" version. Then you have folks like us....home users, but get into this type of thing more than your Average Joe. Therefore....I think a product between the Rescue and Server needs to be filled as it's a hole in the market/revenue.

Therefore I had an idea I would like to propose to Todd and the Gang - how about bringing back the "old version" - price it higher than before - but make it a "Wilder's Security Edition"! That's of course assuming if you will not at all consider a main-stream mid-priced product.

So...for example - to be able to order it, you have to at least be registered at Wilders and fill in your "nick" upon ordering....something like that or request a special ordering link - but you have to be registered here to get that special link.

I know, I know....this is probably all a shot in the dark, but one thing about this place that Todd and Partner(s) can definitely add into the equation in thinking about this is:

1) if wasn't for Wilders - Erik probably never would have found it and around here, I think everyone can agree he is FD-ISR's best salesman :P

2) I wouldn't have found it AND understood it either if it wasn't for Wilders and for the most part....Erik's posts :P :P

3) there are plenty of folks here willing to shell out more money than $39.95, but $295.00 is out of the league of most folks that hang out at Wilders (incl. me)

4) your support forum is here - and you gets lots and lots of feedback from genuine people about your product, are concerned about their backup system and as compared to other products on the market, etc. You also get residual interest as well....other folks who come here looking for malware stuff and end up stumbling on your product. Not a bad place to be actually from a "business point of view".

5) thanks to Wilders...a beautiful place to talk about this kind of stuff, so much so that folks take time to read gobs and gobs of forum posts = the more people talk about your product = the more people will be interested = the more people will buy; then you have your "distributor" who does his own sales.

6) you have the older full version that you are continuing to update but not charge for - OK, so why not sell that version instead of it basically collecting dust?

7) and the fact it doesn't help that people like me reading posts here that flaunt that they have the "older and better" program. :'( that REALLY sucks.

So what do you say Todd?? ::) I would like to reiterate that I would have NO PROBLEM spending double or triple what Rescue is. I think that would be a fair price for an "above average home user". You've got the "average home user" covered with Rescue (and it works fine actually) - and then the SERVER folks.....so what about us folks?? A Wilders Security Edition!

(sorry for the long post!) :wacko:

Peter2150

July 9th, 2008, 11:03 AM

Hi Holymoly

First welcome to Wilders.

Second. There is no Tony. I think you are refering to Todd, who is the Leapfrogrepresentative.

Third. Todd can chime in and comment, but I fear you are beating a dead horse.

Pete

pratzert

July 9th, 2008, 11:11 AM

holymoly,

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Put me down for one !

Since Todd/Leapfrog have released a new version, obviously they are still developing it. I know part of the reason is to have one "common" vendor code instead of the 3-4 that were out there. It does seem like they don't want to abandon their baby totally, and rightfully so, they worked long and hard at perfecting the software.

Heck, if they have gone ahead and tweaked it already, and we are willing to pay more than the old rate, and we already know enought to ask the great braintrust on the forum for some help/support instead of sucking up their time and resources... why not ?

It may be an opportunity to put a couple hundred bucks in their pocket with very little cost on their end.

Tim

holymoly

July 9th, 2008, 11:19 AM

{QUOTE-> Hi Holymoly

First welcome to Wilders.

Second. There is no Tony. I think you are refering to Todd, who is the Leapfrogrepresentative.

Third. Todd can chime in and comment, but I fear you are beating a dead horse.

Pete <-QUOTE}

oops! will correct that...my apologies Todd! (am only on my 1st cup of coffee this morning!) :what:

but thanks for the welcome...and yeah, I may be quite well be beating a dead horse, Pete, but you know.....it never hurts to say something and I figured the worse thing he/they could say is..."No"....OR..."absolutely not...you're insane, don't ever bring that back up again". :P

Peter2150

July 9th, 2008, 11:25 AM

There is an old adage "If wishes were horses beggars would ride"

I am afraid this falls into that category.

holymoly

July 9th, 2008, 11:41 AM

{QUOTE-> There is an old adage "If wishes were horses beggars would ride"

I am afraid this falls into that category. <-QUOTE}

LOL. Let's not forget the other old adages as well: "Be careful what you wish for, it may come true" and how about: "What we ardently wish, we believe." ;)

I think there are more than a few of us that probably fall more true to the 2nd adage! After doing a little homework....LeapFrog surely have changed positions over the years with different partners and distributors, so I think anything is possible....and I would think they would say the same thing. "Never say Never"!

Leapfrog Software

July 9th, 2008, 12:26 PM

Greetings,

I appreciate the post. I will keep this short. Please read the post entitled “Market Repositioning”. This explains why we just could not keep going on as we were. It took us a few years, but we had to change our strategy.

For the time being, FD-ISR has been taken off the public market.

holymoly

July 9th, 2008, 01:13 PM

{QUOTE-> Greetings,

I appreciate the post. I will keep this short. Please read the post entitled “Market Repositioning”. This explains why we just could not keep going on as we were. It took us a few years, but we had to change our strategy.

For the time being, FD-ISR has been taken off the public market. <-QUOTE}

Todd - I appreciate the quick reply and although Pete had it right (yeah, yeah, but I still stand behind my words!)....at least you know there are folks out there like "pratzert" , others and myself roaming here at Wilders that are quite jealous and envious of the folks that have your full-featured version. I'm kicking myself in the butt now for not having looked further into your product at the time when it was available via Raxco.

I do fully empathize with you guys that at the end of the day, it's all about the money, like any business. I guess because of the continued support and the fact that alot of folks around here keep bringing up the advantages of the older version as compared to the newer "rescue" version - at least with the ongoing discussions here at Wilders - is disappointing to say the least esp. since it's still being supported.

I hope if you ever change positions again in the future and bring back this old version, that you will give those who have purchased the HDS "rescue" version an option to upgrade to that full-featured version. You indeed have a very cool program that saves alot of peoples butt and even has been said to put RollBackRX to shame (which I believe is NOT exclusive to HDS - see EAZ-FIX)...and therefore I find it hard to believe that such a radical market re-positioning was actually needed. I'm in the international oilfield business....I have no idea about the software market, so what the heck do I know? LOL.

Take care and thanks again for your reply. I will go and have a conversation with myself about the "Rescue" version. :P

Peter2150

July 9th, 2008, 02:12 PM

{QUOTE-> I will go and have a conversation with myself about the "Rescue" version. :P <-QUOTE}

Chuckling, but consider for the longest time, before FDISR even had the archive function, I used it in the form that Rescue now takes, and I wouldn't have been without it.

Pete

pratzert

July 9th, 2008, 02:18 PM

Peter,

It would seem that in this case "Ignorance is Bliss" ( or would have been)... meaning that if we didn't know that the software existed in another form, we may think that the Rescue is best thing there is.

It's a case of always wanting what you can't have.

I feel like it's Easter time and I'm standing outside the candy shop looking thru the window at the ten giant chocolate bunny rabbits they made... and know that's all there is going to be.... and that someone else already bought them.:'(

Tim

holymoly

July 9th, 2008, 03:36 PM

{QUOTE-> Chuckling, but consider for the longest time, before FDISR even had the archive function, I used it in the form that Rescue now takes, and I wouldn't have been without it.

Pete <-QUOTE}

I hear you loud and clear, Pete....and I've read where you said that once or a few times here, so your comments on this definitely make me feel better about just accepting as it is now in its basic form. It surely does the job its intended to do quite well and the trial version has already pulled me out of a hole several times.

But as Tim mentions....the problem here is that its "grown up" since then with archiving and freezing/unfreezing - we know it, you guys have it, folks keep talking about it and how better it is, we don't have it, we want it and will pay for it.....just not $295.00 (for personal use). :blink:

PLAN B - anyone up for a license transfer!?? ;D

pandlouk

July 9th, 2008, 03:39 PM

{QUOTE-> Peter,

It would seem that in this case "Ignorance is Bliss" ( or would have been)... meaning that if we didn't know that the software existed in another form, we may think that the Rescue is best thing there is.

It's a case of always wanting what you can't have.

I feel like it's Easter time and I'm standing outside the candy shop looking thru the window at the ten giant chocolate bunny rabbits they made... and know that's all there is going to be.... and that someone else already bought them.:'(

Tim <-QUOTE}
Hi huys,

I can understand how you feel. When HorizonDatasys decided to replace FD-ISR Pro with FD-ISR Rescue I was totally pissed off. It meant that a product I bought 2 months earlier would not be supported anymore. >:(

Anyway thanks to Todd and his big heart FD-ISR Pro is alive as ever. :-*

ps. FD-ISR rescue is not as bad as it sounds. I would advise you to ask Horizondatasys if they plan to add the import/export of archives, since it is already supported in the server edition. Maybe they could release it as an optional plug-in with a little extra cost. This would make everybody happy since it would not change the nature of FD-ISR Rescue and would provide some more income from those that have an OEM Rescue version [if they want it they will have to pay ;D ]

Panagiotis

pratzert

July 9th, 2008, 03:41 PM

holymoly,

That $295 you mention is what they are selling the FD-ISR Server "Rescue" version for.... and it does NOT have all the functionalilty of the good old Original FD-ISR.

So even if you sprung for $295 you still would not have the package that all these other lucky people have.:(

Tim

pratzert

July 9th, 2008, 03:45 PM

{QUOTE-> Hi huys,

I can understand how you feel. When HorizonDatasys decided to replace FD-ISR Pro with FD-ISR Rescue I was totally pissed off. It meant that a product I bought 2 months earlier would not be supported anymore. >:(

Anyway thanks to Todd and his big heart FD-ISR Pro is alive as ever. :-*

ps. FD-ISR rescue is not as bad as it sounds. I would advise you to ask Horizondatasys if they plan to add the import/export of archives, since it is already supported in the server edition. Maybe they could release it as an optional plug-in with a little extra cost. This would make everybody happy since it would not change the nature of FD-ISR Rescue and would provide some more income from those that have an OEM Rescue version [if they want it they will have to pay ;D ]

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}

I am still at a loss to fully understand why they would stop selling the original version because it lost money, particularly in the support area, but then turn around and sell a dumbed down version for more money that they STILL have to support.

Why not just sell the full blown original for the $295 instead?

pandlouk

July 9th, 2008, 03:52 PM

{QUOTE-> I am still at a loss to fully understand why they would stop selling the original version because it lost money, particularly in the support area, but then turn around and sell a dumbed down version for more money that they STILL have to support.

Why not just sell the full blown original for the $295 instead? <-QUOTE}

Don't be confused. The price is high because it is for a different market. You cannot install FD-ISR pro on a server (server 2000, server 2003, server 2008 ).

It is a substitute for the FD-ISR Server edition, not for the FD-ISR Workstation Pro edition.

holymoly

July 9th, 2008, 04:04 PM

holymoly

July 9th, 2008, 04:20 PM

{QUOTE-> Hi huys,

I can understand how you feel. When HorizonDatasys decided to replace FD-ISR Pro with FD-ISR Rescue I was totally pissed off. It meant that a product I bought 2 months earlier would not be supported anymore. >:(

Anyway thanks to Todd and his big heart FD-ISR Pro is alive as ever. :-* <-QUOTE}

you REALLY have to rub it in, do ya? :ouch:

Yo Pete/Tim - see what I mean!?? :(

{QUOTE-> ps. FD-ISR rescue is not as bad as it sounds. I would advise you to ask Horizondatasys if they plan to add the import/export of archives, since it is already supported in the server edition. Maybe they could release it as an optional plug-in with a little extra cost. This would make everybody happy since it would not change the nature of FD-ISR Rescue and would provide some more income from those that have an OEM Rescue version [if they want it they will have to pay ;D ]

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}

it's not bad...but the archiving (or more than 1 backup snapshot) would surely be useful esp. after having read so many folks here going into detail on how they use it! :ouch: :ouch:

Yeah...that was a question I was going to ask - so where the heck do we go for support? here or there? sold by HDS.....and this place is for the "old" FD-ISR?? I am a bit confused. If Todd and Gang develop the actual program - surely they can talk to the HDS guys, right? I mean....why would I go to them when I know you guys and LeapFrog are here?

trjam

July 9th, 2008, 04:33 PM

I will say Todd, that at the rate things are going with the lack of protection provided by security products, the plum tree may be getting ready to ripen again for FD-ISR. I would gladly shell out $100.00 to $150.00 for a product like this today. Marketing though, is the key.

People thought Geswall was dead a year ago, and trust me, it aint.;)

holymoly

July 9th, 2008, 04:51 PM

{QUOTE-> Don't be confused. The price is high because it is for a different market. You cannot install FD-ISR pro on a server (server 2000, server 2003, server 2008 ).

It is a substitute for the FD-ISR Server edition, not for the FD-ISR Workstation Pro edition. <-QUOTE}

Exactly....so you're confirming there's a market being totally missed here = us - the "above average home user" that do NOT run Windows Server.

How many of you actually run a Windows Server edition - at home?

lucas1985

July 9th, 2008, 06:59 PM

{QUOTE-> Why not just sell the full blown original for the $295 instead? <-QUOTE}
Because Freeze/Unfreeze, 10 snapshots and scheduling are features which seem useless in a server/Exchange environment. On the other hand, 2 snapshots (one for recovery) and archiving (archives are almost like images) look very useful.
Just a guess.

Archiving and transparency to the Windows storage stack are the core features of FD-ISR (IMO). That's what sets it apart from every other ISR solution.

EASTER

July 9th, 2008, 10:22 PM

{QUOTE-> Because Freeze/Unfreeze, 10 snapshots and scheduling are features which seem useless in a server/Exchange environment. On the other hand, 2 snapshots (one for recovery) and archiving (archives are almost like images) look very useful.
Just a guess.

Archiving and transparency to the Windows storage stack are the core features of FD-ISR (IMO). That's what sets it apart from every other ISR solution. <-QUOTE}

I HIGHLY! sympathize with this topic's author 110% and then some. The good old version that lucas1985 and others refer to is for all intensive purposes (at least for me) as good as Gold! And i count myself as one of the fortunate ones that really didn't pay a lick of attention at first for awhile. But there was so much noise and high praise constantly running overtime again and again, then one of our member's Dallen in a personal note ask if i had looked into this FD-ISR and such, so i did, and was mesmerized by repeated high regard and excitement over this ISR from both Peter2150 & EricAlbert that it became irresistable and the rest as they say is history. But one thing about the old version, it's long from being old or outdated even now, and this baby turned out to save my tail when i had no image of my system to repair when it was viciously decapitated by a file infector virus.

To the rescue came FD-ISR archives i at least had forethought enough to make and store to another HD, and Lo & Behold, i got back my entire 3 partition 200Gb system with all files, programs, settings, and such COMPLETELY INTACT!!

Like others, it was a Dream to create multiple bootable systems=snapshots, and switch at will to any of them, but as it turns out the archives proved out to be a 100% true rescue medium in a real pinch.

In short, this app/ISR is proved itself consistently to be in a class all to itself and i really feel for anyone who missed out the opportunity to been a recipient of this World-Class ISR!!

djohn

July 9th, 2008, 11:14 PM

I my self found out to late on this program.When I had XP It was no longer available but buy the Time I discovered what all the fuss was about it was to late.should have joined wilders a year ago or so but of course would not do me good know on vista.It was actually eriks repeated post of FD-ISR that sunk in my num skull to stop and wonder what is this FD-ISR.That said I purchased FD Rescue and love it.It may not be the original but all the same,its still effective and I have tested it out several times.I my self would like to see a born again original but I guess all good things come to a end.:-[

Longboard

July 10th, 2008, 12:34 AM

@holymoly{QUOTE-> I just recently bought Terabyte's bundle package and imaging via "Image for Linux" <-QUOTE} :thumb: :thumb:
Well at least it aint all bad. ;)
Explore the options in BING; you'll love it.

Dont aplologise for wanting to keep the 'issue' alive: you are not alone
If enough voices speak up then maybe there is a pot at the end of the rainbow.

There was massive disappointment when HDS/Leapfrog decided to 'limit' options in FDISR releases. Todd has reappeared with a vengeance to support previous purchasers as he promised.

You can use BING to copy system partitions and setup each as required, use BING as Boot manager, image each partiton or whole disc as required for recovery

A easier option is VMWare workstation: multiple options check it out, excellent utility, cheaper than FDISR server, export and save snapshots etc etc etc 'virtually' unlimited. :)

(Oh how HDS has so missed the boat)

It's amazing how as desktop/home users we have had to coopt other tools to provide the range of FDISR options after a taste of FDISR Pro, still, there are some good options.

Good Luck.

Tony

July 10th, 2008, 06:03 AM

As fd-isr rescue seems to have proved a financial success for Leapfrog, maybe they should consider bringing out different versions, I.E. FD-ISR Rescue basic, the program currently as it is, a mid range version including archives, and then a professional version including all features of the original FD-ISR.

I also like the way programs such as Defensewall operate with their license.
Buy the product and be able to use it for life, then after 12 months the license can prolongate at a very reasonable price keeping customers, and the money coming in.

The people at Leapfrog are very talented at what they do and at the end of the day if the product does not make the money then we will be devoid of even the basic version that is FD-ISR rescue

So fingers crossed that it does turn into a resounding success, then maybe one day, you never Know;D

Acadia

July 10th, 2008, 07:58 AM

{QUOTE-> ...maybe they should consider bringing out different versions, I.E. FD-ISR Rescue basic, the program currently as it is, a mid range version including archives, and then a professional version including all features of the original FD-ISR. <-QUOTE}

Hey, I LIKE that idea. Probably too complicated though for the Horizon folks. ;)

Acadia

Peter2150

July 10th, 2008, 08:40 AM

Does anyone really feel there is much point to this thread continuing. At the end of the day it is accomplishing nothing.

Pete

ErikAlbert

July 10th, 2008, 09:35 AM

{QUOTE-> Does anyone really feel there is much point to this thread continuing. At the end of the day it is accomplishing nothing.

Pete <-QUOTE}
No I don't see any purpose of this thread, because it's just a dream, that won't become true, at least not in the near future.
Maybe one day, when ISR-softwares become as popular as AV scanners. :)

Longboard

July 10th, 2008, 10:24 AM

@Tony: nice idea and generously expressed
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1277802&postcount=24

but HDS ?? :-X
BUt: they are letting Todd do this so maybe....

Pete will close this now fer sure ;D

Peter2150

July 10th, 2008, 10:41 AM

{QUOTE-> @Tony: nice idea and generously expressed
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1277802&postcount=24

but HDS ?? :-X
BUt: they are letting Todd do this so maybe....

Pete will close this now fer sure ;D <-QUOTE}

This is why this thread is pointless. Tony's idea was well expressed, but regretfully it doesn't matter.

HDS is letting Todd do what?? We don't know the contractual arrangement so anything said like this is pure speculation.

I am not going to close the thread based on this, but Erik's right.

Longboard

July 10th, 2008, 11:20 AM

{QUOTE-> anything said like this is pure speculation. <-QUOTE} Yes.
Just that.
{QUOTE-> Erik's right <-QUOTE}; aaaggghhh ;D

EASTER

July 10th, 2008, 11:00 PM

{QUOTE-> No I don't see any purpose of this thread, because it's just a dream, that won't become true, at least not in the near future.
Maybe one day, when ISR-softwares become as popular as AV scanners. :) <-QUOTE}

Some members amaze me with your blatant dismissal and like it's over as to never again be available.

This is only a trend, sometimes developers lead the public to fantasy land. I lay odds, and maybe not in the near future due to contractual agreements they signed and are obligated to abide by for a specific amount of time, but sometime in the future i think everyone is going to be amazed when the workstation of the old FD-ISR resurfaces again, with not only it's great features a lot of customers have enjoyed in the past, but times and agreements CHANGE no matter what.

So though at this time it seems unlikely, it is not impossible. This is the software products world and it's ever evolving and sometimes takes years to ressurrect again back to it's popular products, even with newer distributors.

And i'm a patient fellow. IMO, it's not dead or dismissed, just going thru natural channels of change like all product makers decide on.

EASTER

ErikAlbert

July 11th, 2008, 12:13 AM

Easter,
Average users are not ready for a software like FDISR or ISR-softwares in general.
Only knowledgeable users know how to appreciate such softwares and where are these knowledgeable users ? In forums like Wilders and in the computer department of companies.

You only have to visit Malware Forums to see what is going on in the real world, one infection after another and that is just a small part, because the rest doesn't even know that such forums exist to get help.
Many of them don't even use IB, why would they use FDISR, which is even more difficult to understand than IB.

To a reseller
1. companies are the easy clients, because they have the money and the knowledgeable people to handle FDISR.
2. average users have often problems with FDISR and need constantly support in the beginning until they finally understand the purpose of FDISR and all hardware/software issues with FDISR on their computer are solved.
I'm not surprised that average users don't get a reply from HDS to solve their problems, their inbox must be full of support tickets and support costs money and average users don't like to pay and don't read the manual.
FDISR Rescue is simple, which means less support, less questions, less troubles with average users.

Peter2150

July 11th, 2008, 12:28 AM

{QUOTE->

And i'm a patient fellow. IMO, it's not dead or dismissed, just going thru natural channels of change like all product makers decide on.

EASTER <-QUOTE}

You will probably have time for several trips to your designated location.

EASTER

July 11th, 2008, 03:16 AM

{QUOTE-> You will probably have time for several trips to your designated location. <-QUOTE}

You both speak with much persuasion now unlike your former praise of them before, like you have an inside track to this company and it's policy, but neither of you know what the future holds for a certain, not even myself, But i seen this happen before and gives rise to a more positive rather then the negative notes you seem to dismiss it entirely as it's a done deal no more to surface again.

But then again neither of you and not even LEAPFROG themselves can predict the future untill the seasons change, the market turns in their better interest, then who is to say exactly what just might suddenly without warning come to the forefront.

EASTER

Huupi

July 11th, 2008, 03:19 AM

As Todd clearly stated,selling it to home users gave not enough revenue to make up for the costs it took. So i feel sad but his decision to stop selling it to us is completely understandable.

EASTER

July 11th, 2008, 03:35 AM

{QUOTE-> As Todd clearly stated,selling it to home users gave not enough revenue to make up for the costs it took. So i feel sad but his decision to stop selling it to us is completely understandable. <-QUOTE}

Yes, but keep in mind, that decision came at a time where they needed to solicit the enterprise industry, that IMO in no way either discounts or dismisses what can change in the future.

And i dare anyone to be so naive as to predict the future outcome of LEAPFROG'S policy say a year from now or so.

Patience does has it rewards.

trjam

July 11th, 2008, 10:44 AM

{QUOTE-> As Todd clearly stated,selling it to home users gave not enough revenue to make up for the costs it took. So i feel sad but his decision to stop selling it to us is completely understandable. <-QUOTE}
that may be true, but I can assure you of one thing. A hell of a lot of people know more about it today, then say 1 or 2 years ago. It is almost like the Rocky Horror Picture Show with a cult following. Going "under" for an extended timeframe may have been the best thing that could have happened to it.

Remember, 2 years ago it was, antispam, antispyware and antivirus. That table is turning, not just here but in the general public as more and more seek alternatives. The problem with FD-ISR is, it was birthed just a little to early.;) :argh:

wilbertnl

July 11th, 2008, 06:30 PM

(Maybe Leapfrog Software should find a retailer in China...)

holymoly

July 12th, 2008, 12:42 AM

ok fellas....I started the thread, I had an idea, Todd came back and very politely stated the current facts once again....and the good folks keep reminding us that we are dreaming. Therefore, as I like to do in these kind of situations.....I made a PDF of this thread in case things do change later on, and thus the evidence is now secure. ;)

on a more serious note though.....since there's such a radical market repositioning....then why maintain a forum here at Wilders? the good people that visit here want more than "rescue", but can't afford "server", had a taste of the full version for a couple/few years....and we have others reminding newbies and others of how good the "old" version is, so you can imagine it can get very confusing for anyone "slightly" interested in FD-ISR.

SO.....Why not just have a forum on Leapfrog site and be done with it? As long as the forum and Erik are here....we, members, guests, etc.....will keep hearing of the grande ole version that used to exist, but no longer does. Also...at least around these circles....I have yet to hear a good thing about HorizonDataSys. So......bo!

pandlouk

July 12th, 2008, 05:04 AM

{QUOTE-> .....
SO.....Why not just have a forum on Leapfrog site and be done with it? As long as the forum and Erik are here....we, members, guests, etc.....will keep hearing of the grande ole version that used to exist, but no longer does. Also...at least around these circles....I have yet to hear a good thing about HorizonDataSys. So......bo! <-QUOTE}
Why then not ban all the FD-ISR Pro users from the wilders? :dry: ::)

I do not know about the others but for me HorizonDataSys folks are ok.
I own both FD-ISR and Rollback RX and I like them both. Although I prefer Fd-ISR.
Most of the time they respond at my support tickets and they try to fix the problems that I report to them. (1-2 tickets did not get responce but when I chatted with online support I got these resolved too).

Panagiotis

ErikAlbert

July 12th, 2008, 06:35 AM

{QUOTE-> Why then not ban all the FD-ISR Pro users from the wilders? :dry: ::)

I do not know about the others but for me HorizonDataSys folks are ok.
I own both FD-ISR and Rollback RX and I like them both. Although I prefer Fd-ISR.
Most of the time they respond at my support tickets and they try to fix the problems that I report to them. (1-2 tickets did not get responce but when I chatted with online support I got these resolved too).

Panagiotis <-QUOTE}
I don't see any benefit in creating a forum at Leapfrog website.
When Wilders replaces the subforum "FirstDefense-ISR BETA Forum" with "FirstDefense-ISR Rescue", we have all the forums we need and there won't be any confusion between two very different versions anymore.
Users of the server edition hardly visit this forum, because they are used by knowledgeable people in companies and they don't need as much support as average users do.
Changing the address of a forum doesn't improve anything.

You always seem to mention my name, but I'm not that special, I just know how to use FDISR, nothing more than that.
Each time when there is a technical problem with FDISR, I'm not the one who solves the problem : Todd, Peter, Wilbertnl and others solve technical problems, because their technical knowledge is much larger than mine.
I never had any technical problems with FDISR, unless I caused them myself. I try to avoid technical problems by using my logical mind, intuition, keeping it simple and my experience as a pure application analyst helps me alot.
I only wrote (too) many posts about FDISR, because I was fascinated by FDISR during 2 years. I never met a software like FDISR in my life that changed so many things thoroughly on my computer in a very positive way.
After September 2007, I couldn't improve anything anymore regarding recovery and I had reached my final goal : cleaning and repairing my computer automatically without doing anything than reboot and without needing specialized knowledge.
Isn't that the final goal of everybody at Wilders, having a malware-free/garbage-free computer and spending your time in a positive and productive way ?

I can't do this in the very same and convenient way with any other ISR-software without needing extra softwares and I've been studying DeepFreeze, Returnil and ShadowDefender, they are all three LESS than FDISR and I don't need to study the others, because they have the same design with only small differences.
Some of them have much better functions than FDISR, but these are just details, not important enough to replace FDISR. :)
DeepFreeze is too strict and its development is rather slow. Returnil and ShadowDefender are the most interesting ones and they improve constantly, sometimes with strange extra functions like in Returnil's beta version recently.

Peter2150

July 12th, 2008, 08:17 AM

{QUOTE->
on a more serious note though.....since there's such a radical market repositioning....then why maintain a forum here at Wilders? the good people that visit here want more than "rescue", but can't afford "server", had a taste of the full version for a couple/few years....and we have others reminding newbies and others of how good the "old" version is, so you can imagine it can get very confusing for anyone "slightly" interested in FD-ISR.

SO.....Why not just have a forum on Leapfrog site and be done with it? As long as the forum and Erik are here....we, members, guests, etc.....will keep hearing of the grande ole version that used to exist, but no longer does. Also...at least around these circles....I have yet to hear a good thing about HorizonDataSys. So......bo! <-QUOTE}

I agree with Pandlouk. HorizonDataSys is doing what they feel best for them, and I also have gotten response to any tickets I've submitted.

As to the forum for Leapfrog here. As long as they support users, which is obvious they will do, why not. It takes work to support and moderate a forum, so they are wise to continue here. I for one am glad they are here.

Pete

holymoly

July 12th, 2008, 10:35 AM

{QUOTE-> I agree with Pandlouk. HorizonDataSys is doing what they feel best for them, and I also have gotten response to any tickets I've submitted.

As to the forum for Leapfrog here. As long as they support users, which is obvious they will do, why not. It takes work to support and moderate a forum, so they are wise to continue here. I for one am glad they are here.

Pete <-QUOTE}

Well...really there's nothing more I can say on the subject since at least this point in time....it's not going to make a difference. Unfortunately, we have 2 camps here at Wilder's:

1) those who have the full version FD-ISR
2) those who don't have the full version FD-ISR (and have to live with those of you who do) >:( by the same the token...you have to live with us as well...so it's a 2-way street. ;)

Erik - I meant no offense to you regarding your FD-ISR pitches that I've and others come across during researching here at Wilders. You do post ALOT...you're nearly at 10,000 posts, so you DO know we see you everywhere. ;) Again....I did mention early on that if it wasn't for your posts....I would have never picked up on FD-ISR. Same with Pete....his comments have also been very very helpful throughout Wilders. I think Todd and Gang should owe you guys for being such a great supporter of their product and putting others onto it. There's something to be said when you reach that many posts and nearly most of them probably concern FD-ISR.

Which brings me to another idea I just had - if folks REALLY care and love this product - then all of you need to help LeapFrog and the full FD-ISR by really convincing others here to purchase Rescue and to let LeapFrog know they came from Wilders. I think this place is a wonderful place to discuss this type of stuff, so it's unfortunate with numbers like this:

Members: 78,986, Active Members: 15,558

...that Wilders didn't make an impact on LeapFrog's revenue. :(

One last comment - let's not forget either that most of us here are probably the "computer experts" in our families, so....we're the ones to help spread the word as well to our friends and families and co-workers/managers, who would otherwise never hear or even understand something like this and how great (and important) it is in the scheme of things. Out of our worldwide operation....I feel like I'm the only one who understands how important it is to backup....most people simply take it for granted and even if they were concerned - they wouldn't know where to start.

ErikAlbert

July 12th, 2008, 11:27 AM

holymoly,
I don't feel offended at all, don't worry about me. ;D

wilbertnl

July 12th, 2008, 12:38 PM

{QUOTE-> ... we have 2 camps here at Wilder's: <-QUOTE}
I disagree, I think that we all are Leapfrog Software/Raxco etc, customers.
Some of us express strong personal preferences, others are more open.
In the end, we all come here for support. To receive or to offer.

{QUOTE-> ... we're the ones to help spread the word as well to our friends and families and co-workers/managers, who would otherwise never hear or even understand something like this and how great (and important) it is in the scheme of things. <-QUOTE}
Let me give you an analogy:
I don't care how my car works and I don't want to change the oil myself. I get to an automotive place and pay to get maintenance service.
My neighbour though, is laying under his car and replacing his battery every week.
I would NOT want him to convince me how much I'm missing out by not doing what he is doing.

holymoly

July 12th, 2008, 02:25 PM

{QUOTE-> I disagree, I think that we all are Leapfrog Software/Raxco etc, customers.
Some of us express strong personal preferences, others are more open.
In the end, we all come here for support. To receive or to offer.

Let me give you an analogy:
I don't care how my car works and I don't want to change the oil myself. I get to an automotive place and pay to get maintenance service.
My neighbour though, is laying under his car and replacing his battery every week.
I would NOT want him to convince me how much I'm missing out by not doing what he is doing. <-QUOTE}

ok I think you missed my point completely and therefore I have no idea how to respond to that.....so I just won't + it's time to move on anyway. :blink:

[holymoly now waves to the crowd....and exits stage left]

EASTER

July 12th, 2008, 02:44 PM

{QUOTE-> ok I think you missed my point completely and therefore I have no idea how to respond to that.....so I just won't + it's time to move on anyway. :blink:

[holymoly now waves to the crowd....and exits stage left] <-QUOTE}

Personally as a very encharged and ethusiastic plus totally satisfied recipient of the now i guess we can call the Classic FD-ISR, i applaud holymoly's write-in campaign of sorts with this topic and his efforts to appeal for it.

As software continues to evolve, marketing strategies also are always in flux and tend to change according to season almost, so even for all purposes it looks bleak at this point-in-time and all indications express against what's greatly desired, i for one never close the door or chalk things up as over and done.

And why? Because it's happened before, so the belief, even in the face of doubt that whats over is over, this business does spring up surprises when we least expect them.

Thats how i happened on FD-ISR at all to begin with. My thoughts were this is just another round of a different software that will come and go, and while it has gone (original version save the update) theres no law that dictates it HAS to always remain that way indefinitely.

In the meantime however, of course, is it's cousin for better or worse.

Thanks for the Topic & Effort holymoly
EASTER

Acadia

July 12th, 2008, 03:13 PM

{QUOTE-> ... Classic FD-ISR ... <-QUOTE}
"Classic", I like that! 8)

Acadia

katoa

July 15th, 2008, 05:46 AM

{QUOTE-> Easter,
Average users are not ready for a software like FDISR or ISR-softwares in general. Only knowledgeable users know how to appreciate such softwares and where are these knowledgeable users ? In forums like Wilders and in the computer department of companies.

You only have to visit Malware Forums to see what is going on in the real world, one infection after another and that is just a small part, because the rest doesn't even know that such forums exist to get help.
Many of them don't even use IB, why would they use FDISR, which is even more difficult to understand than IB.

To a reseller
1. companies are the easy clients, because they have the money and the knowledgeable people to handle FDISR.
2. average users have often problems with FDISR and need constantly support in the beginning until they finally understand the purpose of FDISR and all hardware/software issues with FDISR on their computer are solved.
I'm not surprised that average users don't get a reply from HDS to solve their problems, their inbox must be full of support tickets and support costs money and average users don't like to pay and don't read the manual.
FDISR Rescue is simple, which means less support, less questions, less troubles with average users. <-QUOTE}

Great post Erik - I couldn't agree more with your reasoning and yet disagree more with your (and Leapfrogs) conclusions.

First, let me preface my remarks by stating that I am long-time reader, first-time poster here at Wilders. Second, my qualifications - 15+ years in Software Development, Windows developer, MBA, graduate of one successful startup, and currently CTO of another software startup (which is now profitable in year 2).

Successful software business is all about positioning - the right products for the right markets at the right prices. FDISR was the mostly-right product positioned to the wrong market at an unsustainable price-point. I don't blame Leapfrog/Horizon at all for pulling out - but I must say that they are unforgivable crazy to not be repositioning the full-featured product to a different market (with different sales channels, etc) at a different price point.

Let me illustrate by discussing Altiris SVS (now owned by Symantec), which was developed by a neighbor and friend (originally the company was FSLogic). They knew from day 1 that both Protect (their first product, competing with DeepFreeze, etc.) and what later became SVS would only be successful in the Enterprise market, where the IT expertise needed to successfully use the products (and not require a fortune to support) existed. Accordingly, Altiris saw the huge IT benefits of integrating it into their suite. (Not to say that they couldn't have made some money selling dumbed-downed versions to Consumers much like FD-Rescue, just that the big money wasn't there. Even the market to tech-savvy consumers is dwarfed by the business IT market.)

All that said, Altiris made a brilliant move to release an absolutely free personal version (which only has the client-server functionality removed) to the general public. Why the heck would they do that? Because, the only consumers that end up using it (because of the very technical knowledge required, far surpassing even that required for FDISR) are those that can deal with it (Wilders-security type of folks), are willing to read the 500+ page manual, spend countless hours on the Altiris Juice community site supporting themselves, working around issues, etc. Many users are technical enough that they are writing their own plugins using the SVS SDK which benefits the entire SVS community!

And most importantly, what else is true about most of those folks? - they have a huge likelihood of being in current and/or future positions of influence in IT decisions of companies they work for! Get a tech-guy like that hooked on it, and you can bet big money that they'll purchase and/or help convince their IT department to at least seriously investigate SVS. And once in the door with SVS, then there is the huge upsell to the entire Altiris Suite, Wise Package Studio, etc.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to give FDISR away for free (unless it made business sense), but my point is again is that is is borderline insane to walk away from the very real business value of such an amazing technical solution (albeit one that needs the right market, with a few changes targeted at that market).

Trust me, businesses of all sizes need FDISR as a Client-based security solution (with central management features, etc.) and would pay big money for it with the right business model, sales channels, and marketing. Until then, unless there were contractual obligations preventing it, it just makes simple business sense to continue demonstrating/refining/building a reputation for the product by selling it as a self-serve only (no support) product to a community like Wilders.

[EDIT: I forgot to mention my admiration to Todd/others for making the forum and updates happen. Whether it is for future business reasons or solely out of the goodness of your hearts, you are to be commended! Just use your influence to help your baby grow up and get the recognition it deserves!]

[EDIT #2: Another forgotten mention - FD-ISR could be marketed very successfully as an alternative to VMWare/etc. for Software Development companies - to their developers and QA departments. Virtual machines are great, but often have big technical downsides in QA Testing. FDISR easily solves those pain points.]

pandlouk

July 15th, 2008, 09:39 AM

{QUOTE-> ....
Trust me, businesses of all sizes need FDISR as a Client-based security solution (with central management features, etc.) and would pay big money for it with the right business model, sales channels, and marketing. Until then, unless there were contractual obligations preventing it, it just makes simple business sense to continue demonstrating/refining/building a reputation for the product by selling it as a self-serve only (no support) product to a community like Wilders.

[EDIT: I forgot to mention my admiration to Todd/others for making the forum and updates happen. Whether it is for future business reasons or solely out of the goodness of your hearts, you are to be commended! Just use your influence to help your baby grow up and get the recognition it deserves!]

[EDIT #2: Another forgotten mention - FD-ISR could be marketed very successfully as an alternative to VMWare/etc. for Software Development companies - to their developers and QA departments. Virtual machines are great, but often have big technical downsides in QA Testing. FDISR easily solves those pain points.] <-QUOTE}
Interesting post katoa.

Another market that FD-ISR could be promoted (and supprises me that none have thought about it) is the administrate/central managment of multiple machines for updating/upgrading/migrating purpuses.
For example:
Lets say that I need to migrate 10 identical machines from xp to vista and install all the necessary productivity and security software.
The currently solutions are imaging software (configure one machine and then deploy the image to the others) and/or virtualized applications like svs, thinapp, softgrid. But all of them are time consuming.
With FD-ISR Pro I would put all the pcs in "Freeze" mode and then I would point all of them to a single frozen archive(updated for this purpose) on a server. Then I would only have to reboot those pcs twice (10 minutes job).
By magic I would have 10 identical vista fully configured pcs ready for use. ;D

ps. The frozen snapshot is the most powerfull, less documented and almost forgotten feature of FD-ISR Pro!

Panagiotis

Peter2150

July 15th, 2008, 11:14 AM

{QUOTE->
[EDIT #2: Another forgotten mention - FD-ISR could be marketed very successfully as an alternative to VMWare/etc. for Software Development companies - to their developers and QA departments. Virtual machines are great, but often have big technical downsides in QA Testing. FDISR easily solves those pain points.] <-QUOTE}

Not sure I agree here. I am an FDISR lover, but I also use VMWare's VM's. FDISR would not in my mind be a substitute at all. There are just to many things you couldn't do with FDISR, you can do with VM's. BTW, I run FDISR in my VM's.

Also, one should really know the marketing history, before saying trying to say how it should be done.

{QUOTE-> I don't blame Leapfrog/Horizon at all for pulling out <-QUOTE}

Shows you don't know the marketing history. It is not quite as simple as that.

{QUOTE-> I'm not trying to convince anyone to give FDISR away for free (unless it made business sense), but my point is again is that is is borderline insane to walk away from the very real business value of such an amazing technical solution (albeit one that needs the right market, with a few changes targeted at that market). <-QUOTE}

Again you are assuming something. Who has said they are walking away from the product. There are several products discussed here that just don't do that well on the home market, either for the consumer because of price, or the company because of support considerations.

Katoa, I have no reason to doubt your success's or your companies success. Just curious, if it is in either the backup market, or computer security market, and more of interest is the key market home users.

Pete

katoa

July 16th, 2008, 03:32 AM

{QUOTE-> Not sure I agree here. I am an FDISR lover, but I also use VMWare's VM's. FDISR would not in my mind be a substitute at all. There are just to many things you couldn't do with FDISR, you can do with VM's. BTW, I run FDISR in my VM's. <-QUOTE}
I'm certainly not suggesting that it totally replace VMs in software development, just serve as a very useful adjunct in the many situations where VMs don't cut it (performance testing, for example).

{QUOTE-> Also, one should really know the marketing history, before saying trying to say how it should be done... Shows you don't know the marketing history. It is not quite as simple as that. <-QUOTE}
Sure, I don't claim much knowledge of their marketing history (other than semi-exclusive partnerships with relatively unknown companies [except Raxco] in a few verticals) - but none is needed to clearly see business value being left on the table. (My software company would purchase over 100 licenses yesterday (at >$100 a seat) if the full product (with central management features) was on the market, supported by my IT staff and thus costing very little to support.)

{QUOTE-> Katoa, I have no reason to doubt your success's or your companies success. Just curious, if it is in either the backup market, or computer security market, and more of interest is the key market home users. <-QUOTE}
Non-backup or security business. My interest is personal (I have a license to FDISR, but I know countless IT professionals that would die to purchase licenses for personal/business use - they just had never heard of FDISR until I introduced it to them), as well as professional (I know what technical companies are looking for in purchasing software, having worked at WordPerfect/Novell, IBM, and the two startups I mentioned).

When so many people would pay big money (with little-to-no expectation of any direct support), it points to sales/marketing as the root cause of failure rather than a problem with the product or the market itself, as is being claimed.

EASTER

July 16th, 2008, 04:15 AM

I just like to add an Epilogue to all this obvious disappointment over the why although it's complete speculation on my part since LEAPFROG selected the best suited course at the time for their business to progress in a manner best for them.

I keep reading that one of the main variables of the transition due to SUPPORT. I can relate with the fact that support is a required expectation in any marketed commercial product and especially in the software business.

But what completely boggles my mind is that the original Workstation FD-ISR proved one of those applications that was so very well formed & fashioned thru who knows how much testing in their research lab, that it needed little if any support, but instead much of the support arose from customers not quite understanding it's features.

When i first installed it and ever since, it's not failed a single time, and i do mean not once. I did at one point experience a Glitch that Todd quickly remedied with his forum reply and it was so dumb simple that turns out for whatever reason a simple checkmark somehow dropped so that the tray icon wasn't displaying anymore. Aside from that, this Jewell of an ISR is been one if not the single best software i have ever encountered since i first pushed a key on these machines, and not surprisingly and a credit to their technical talents, it's remained that way ever since.

So. i'm just simply lost when it seems that one of the chief issues over the transition of the original FD-ISR was due to support.

This is IMHO the best program (ISR) at that, i ever seen developed/released that didn't make any serious problems at the start or very much later down the road as so many others have before.

EASTER